Who do you want at #2
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ParniValjak
All-Star
In what way? Genuine questions as I would like to hear your opinion on it.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
When did Capela going to the Suns become a done deal? A lot of things still have to happen for that to even become a remote possibility.
Because if Bagley is your center then you have a modern face-up big who also rebounds and can be the dive man on P&Rs or the dumpoff man on drives. It allows you to still have the type of spacing that wins in today's NBA.
But if you have to start him alongside a center then (unless that center is a stretch 5) the spacing is worse. It also means one of them likely has to chase a perimeter oriented PF around.
I like Bagley a lot but if he's not a center does he create the same type of lineup issues in the frontcourt that Tyreke created in the backcourt?
ockingsfan
Starter
I think that is where the Harry Giles position question comes into play. If Giles can play the Center position, than Bagley makes more sense. We would have an awesome big man tandem, but would still need a strong starting small forward.
If we were to draft Ayton, Bagley, or Jackson, I think we may try to move WCS for a Small Forward.
ParniValjak
All-Star
Fair points!
So what happens if our bigs going forward all develop a respectable 3pt shots where they team need to guard them out on the perimeter or they get wide open 3s? WCS will never be a knock down shooter but his offensive game has improved a great deal since his rookie season. His shot is a work in progress but miles better than in his rookie year. No one really knows if he will develop it enough. Giles has reportedly been working on his jumper and extending his range in his first year on an NBA roster. Skal can already shoot the 3 but is till working on being a knock down shooter.
If all your bigs are respectable perimeter shooters then the point really becomes irrelevant. Bagley has shown flashes of his range hitting almost 40% of his 3s in college at close to 2 attempts a game. I see no reason why Bagley cannot work as a 4 in the NBA. His smoothness and developing perimeter skill set project well for the position.
ockingsfan
Starter
The guy is a Phoenix Radio host. I don't put much stock into a radio show host's opinion. It would be like Grant Napear guaranteeing a pick.
I doubt Ayton to the Suns is a done deal just yet.
whitechocolate
Bench
My primary concern with Bagley is that he is just a human, whereas Dončić is a wizard and Ayton is a Monstar. When choosing between a mere mortal and the supernatural, I think you have to pick the latter.
Unless Bagley's defense improves dramatically from where he's at which is a level 2, to at least a level 7, you're never going to win with him as your center. I have zero worries about his offensive game. I think he's going to come in and offensively have a Markkanen type rookie season at the very least but his defense is just terrible. I've ragged on Ayton's poor defense and even he is head and shoulders ahead of Bagley on defense.
https://www.cleaningtheglass.com/stats/team/26/team
There is one constant with this team through all these losing years and it has been terrible defense. The only reason why I'm advocating Doncic despite his terrible defense is because he can score as well as pass at an elite rate, which is something you can then build your defense around once you have a guy like that.
Bagley is also elite athletically. He's a pogo stick with an unbelievably quick second leap and is a very quick with the ball in his hands for a big.
Bagley's defense is a huge wart. That and his inability to use or finish with his right hand near the basket. He also makes poor decisions with the ball, especially when rushed/double teamed, but I think he'll work that out in time. His defense though? That's a tough one.
He shows flashes of being a good individual defender who can switch on guys at the perimeter but his help defense is terrible. He just looks unaware. I can chalk some of that up to him always being so much bigger, faster, stronger than anyone he played that he never had to learn defensive fundamentals. And I think that's part of it. But part of it is also poor instincts. He gets lost on switches a lot and struggled even in a simple 2-3 zone. Also his mediocre wingspan (relative to his height) probably precludes him ever being a real shot blocker/rim protector.
Telemachus
Starter
I'm not sure why everyone seems to think it is a foregone conclusion that Doncic will be a bad defensive player. It seems many felt the same about Bogie and he proved them wrong. Someone tweeted recently that Doncic has the 2nd highest defensive rating on Real Madrid. That should count for something.
Yeah that's at least something positive because there isn't a whole lot of positive noise being made about his defense. I read he was also in the low 15th percentile when it came to pick and roll defense. I'll will be curious to see what happens if we land him.
Telemachus
Starter
From what I have seen, read or heard in a podcast, he is a good team defensive player. Where he struggles is with his lateral movement, which will mainly cause him problems when he is stuck guarding a quick player in isolation.
He has to look at other possibilities for a couple of reasons:
1. What if one of them trips and breaks his leg in 3 or 4 places a couple of days before the draft?
2. What if Doncic decides to remain in Europe?
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Doncic is a good defender from what I've seen. He won't be stopping players with elite quickness most likely but he bodied up legit PF's and some C's in the post in Eurobasket and made it tough for them. That's some insane versatility the other way. Doncic is a 3-4 and will defend both spots well IMO.
Gary
All-Star
1. Then you go Trae Young
OK probably could trade down a bit to get Trae any maybe get another player out of it or another pick... 2. That won't matter imo. We will probably take him if he stays in Europe another year (if available at #2)
I'd absolutely do that but I don't think Dallas would.
I may be falling for hype since I haven't seen an actual game of his but I'm all in on Doncic right now. I think he is probably the BPA and if he can play SF alongside Bogs/Fox we can see how Giles pairs with our existing front court and then hopefully be an attractive FA player in 2019.
I agree with this. There are ways we can try to leverage the #2 pick to solidify two positions but considering how young our core players are, I'd prefer we just keep this simple and use the pick to take either Ayton or Doncic. Both of these players have more potential than anybody we're likely to sign in Free Agency or that another team will give up in trade. Yes Ayton has some concerns defensively but I think you bet on talent here and worry about plugging holes later. If we get Doncic we're still going to be thin in the frontcourt (unless some combination of Giles, Labisierre, and/or Cauley-Stein really emerge next year in a big way) but he's such a transcendent playmaker and scorer that we need to take him if he's available and worry about the rest later. We don't need to go 0 to 100 in one day here. Let's keep building this team one piece at a time.
Regarding the front court, Z-Bo is likely trade deadline fodder but I'm not sure if there is any reason to exclude Kosta from our immediate plans.
True enough, I was thinking more long-term though than next season. There's a decent chance we re-sign Kosta and bring him back even after his contract expires next summer but I don't feel that he's a guy we want to be the starter for the foreseeable future. An important rotation player, sure, but we still need two of Giles, Labissiere, or Cauley-Stein to really establish themselves as consistent starting level players at some point soon or we need to acquire someone else who will instead. I see Skal and Willie as likely "3rd big off the bench" types at this point and I'm hopeful Giles is more than that but it's too early to say. So while I would feel very good about our back-court depth with Fox, Hield, Bogdanovic, and Doncic -- we'd still be missing a top level big man unless/until one of the guys we already have becomes one.
I agree with your assessment about Willie and Skal so I'm mostly curious if Luka is the guy how Kosta and Giles pair up. Or maybe we make a run at Gordon if we project Giles as the center.
It depends on the situation for me. If Dallas offered up Barnes + 5 for our pick, I'd do it. Or if some other team offered up a solid starting caliber player that's 26 or younger packaged with a lottery pick, I'd be hard pressed to pass it up. The draft is such a crap shoot that the odds of finding a player as good as the one you're trading for are probably a little less than 50/50 but on the flip side you'd also get that lottery pick to plug in the other hole or just select BPA.
The Kings are always short on valuable assets and this pick right here is the most valuable one they have by a long shot. I'd be listening to all offers for it because it might be the only valuable piece we have for a couple years. Lets say that we draft Doncic and a few years down the road he isn't any better than Bogdan and Hield is still just kind of a slightly better version of current Hield and Fox isn't any better than Elfrid Payton. Now you're stuck with a bunch of low value assets with no other way to rebuild than blow the hole thing up and start drafting in the lottery all over again.
If there's a good deal out there that sort of buys me insurance in case a non playoff scenario happens, I'm going to look real hard at it.
Entity
Hall of Famer
That’s twice I’ve seen the Barnes + #5. Is the feel out there that Dallas really wants to move up? Also are that not enamored with Barnes?
No I don't think it's based on any real source.
Straight up? Probably Fox.
Otherwise? we'd probably need to to have a multi-team trade. Buddy/Bogan+WCS is intriguing, but I don't think it gets you a top 7 pick right off the bat.
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