Who do you want at #2
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That’s kinda of the beauty of it isn’t it lol. I voted Ayton because I like skilled bigs. I loved cuz til the day he left. All year last year I imagined what we would be like with cuz having heild and bogdan and fox. Then I imagined if we had a mentally stable cuz with them lol. I think Ayton could be a more athletic mentally stable cuz. I worry about time between Doncic, Heild, and Bogdan. If one of the three can’t step up to play SF. Also can we trade zbo yet? Really want him out of here.
For me, it’s Ayton. He’s a basketball Adonis. He’s like the platonic ideal of how you would build a center in today’s NBA, physically speaking. Plus, in the spirit of modernity, he’s already got range out to the three-point line. You’re talking about the next Anthony Davis or Karl Anthony Towns. There are questions about his defensive metrics, and the criticisms are reasonable. But good god... 7’0” tall, 7’5” wingspan, 243 lbs, and a 43.5” vertical. I’ll take those measurements and his 20/10 potential on day one.
Yeah, that is true, but I actually like the fit of Fox and Doncic. What you dont want to do is give Doncic the ball in isolation and say "go get us a bucket". You want the ball moving side to side, the defense moving and then have Doncic attack of close outs or secondary pick and rolls where you can highlight his vision and decision making.
The premise of course is that Fox can develop as a shooter. But that was always the case. He always needed to learn how to shoot to become a good pick at 5. So if he does learn how to shoot, great, you got a nice pairing with him and Doncic. If he does not learn how to shoot, you move on and you at least have another playmaker in Doncic to replace him.
The premise of course is that Fox can develop as a shooter. But that was always the case. He always needed to learn how to shoot to become a good pick at 5. So if he does learn how to shoot, great, you got a nice pairing with him and Doncic. If he does not learn how to shoot, you move on and you at least have another playmaker in Doncic to replace him.
Doncic actually plays very well off the ball.
I'm not as high on him as most because I see a very high level role player but not a star or go-to scorer (like a rich man's Bogdan Bogdanovic) but I will say the potential passing ability of this lineup:
C Cauley-Stein
PF Giles
SF Doncic
SG Bogdanovic
PG Fox
Could make the Kings a ton of fun to watch.
I'm not as high on him as most because I see a very high level role player but not a star or go-to scorer (like a rich man's Bogdan Bogdanovic) but I will say the potential passing ability of this lineup:
C Cauley-Stein
PF Giles
SF Doncic
SG Bogdanovic
PG Fox
Could make the Kings a ton of fun to watch.
I like Jackson Jr.... He has that "unicorn" skillset that'll fit right into today's NBA. I just don't see him as being on the same tier as the other two. Ayton will probably never be a defensive anchor, but he has the athleticism to be a plus on that end. Doncic is too smart/skilled to fail.
I'll give you a tip of the hat if you're right about Jackson Jr though! Especially if Vlade trades down for him!
I'll give you a tip of the hat if you're right about Jackson Jr though! Especially if Vlade trades down for him!
Wow I haven't seen that clip yet. Extremely impressive. He's like a highly skilled Bogdan with a touch of JWill thrown in as well. His style of play is exactly how we've been envisioning the Kings playing. Look at how he pushes the pace as soon as he grabs rebounds! He and Fox can be deadly in transition. I still don't think they'll work all that great in the half court unless Fox becomes a good shooter but this group would be fun to watch with Giles thrown in.
I think if we land this kid, he's going to change the entire culture of the team. His flashy play will rub off on the other guys and while they might not be knocking on the door of the playoffs for a while, they'll be exciting as hell to watch. Kind of like how the early JWill teams were. They barely squeaked into the playoffs but damn were they fun to watch regardless.
I think if we land this kid, he's going to change the entire culture of the team. His flashy play will rub off on the other guys and while they might not be knocking on the door of the playoffs for a while, they'll be exciting as hell to watch. Kind of like how the early JWill teams were. They barely squeaked into the playoffs but damn were they fun to watch regardless.
biltalent, I'm going to respond to your post from the "We're #2" thread so we don't muddy up the celebration thread with Ayton/Doncic analysis.
My main concerns with Ayton stem from his fit defensively. How does a guy with one of the most elite and athletic big man bodies since I can even remember wind up having one of the worst block percentages for a big man in recent lottery history? Blocks aren't everything but another huge knock on him are his late reads and reactions on defense (he does this on offense as well). I question his bball IQ and his lack of intensity. He has zero excuses for why he was a bad defender. It's correctable but it's also a big red flag. You can have all the athleticism in the world but if you can't read and react quickly, then all your athleticism is pointless because the play has already passed you by. He shouldn't have struggled on that end in college. He should have been a beast, but he wasn't and I can't come up with a legitimate excuse for him.
Fit is one of my main concerns with Ayton. So you draft him and he's your starting center. Who plays PF? Skal would fit next to him offensively, but there will be problems there defensively (although Skal is improving). ZBo would fit okay next to him offensively but defensively would be a disaster. WCS would help shore up the defense but now the paint is clogged and I've really seen enough high post WCS for my lifetime. Giles is a wild card but if we go off of what we know, he will fit well defensively but probably not offensively right away. If Giles' passing is on point like the rumors state, you could have him play a bit at the high post but that would mean more mid range shots for Giles and even if he winds up being a solid shooter, I just don't think that type of offense works anymore unless you have a Jokic. Basically unless Ayton becomes an anchor on defense, you're going to need a unicorn type PF next to him to make up for his weaknesses.
Doncic is just such a better fit for me. You plug him in at SF and be done with it. He's not going to be a beast defensively but he's going to be able to share the court with whoever because he can do everything. I can live with a wing not being a good defender but your big man down low has to be able to defend to compete. Giles could be that guy for us. In that case we would basically be getting Doncic + many of the positives that Ayton would give us, but with Giles instead. 2 needs filled and you aren't really sacrificing best player available. Choosing Ayton, you may be overlapping many of Giles' strengths while still having a glaring hole at the SF spot.
My main concerns with Ayton stem from his fit defensively. How does a guy with one of the most elite and athletic big man bodies since I can even remember wind up having one of the worst block percentages for a big man in recent lottery history? Blocks aren't everything but another huge knock on him are his late reads and reactions on defense (he does this on offense as well). I question his bball IQ and his lack of intensity. He has zero excuses for why he was a bad defender. It's correctable but it's also a big red flag. You can have all the athleticism in the world but if you can't read and react quickly, then all your athleticism is pointless because the play has already passed you by. He shouldn't have struggled on that end in college. He should have been a beast, but he wasn't and I can't come up with a legitimate excuse for him.
Fit is one of my main concerns with Ayton. So you draft him and he's your starting center. Who plays PF? Skal would fit next to him offensively, but there will be problems there defensively (although Skal is improving). ZBo would fit okay next to him offensively but defensively would be a disaster. WCS would help shore up the defense but now the paint is clogged and I've really seen enough high post WCS for my lifetime. Giles is a wild card but if we go off of what we know, he will fit well defensively but probably not offensively right away. If Giles' passing is on point like the rumors state, you could have him play a bit at the high post but that would mean more mid range shots for Giles and even if he winds up being a solid shooter, I just don't think that type of offense works anymore unless you have a Jokic. Basically unless Ayton becomes an anchor on defense, you're going to need a unicorn type PF next to him to make up for his weaknesses.
Doncic is just such a better fit for me. You plug him in at SF and be done with it. He's not going to be a beast defensively but he's going to be able to share the court with whoever because he can do everything. I can live with a wing not being a good defender but your big man down low has to be able to defend to compete. Giles could be that guy for us. In that case we would basically be getting Doncic + many of the positives that Ayton would give us, but with Giles instead. 2 needs filled and you aren't really sacrificing best player available. Choosing Ayton, you may be overlapping many of Giles' strengths while still having a glaring hole at the SF spot.
You're preaching to the choir here. On my overall big board I have Doncic #1 and then Jackson Jr and Ayton tied for #2. I am lower on Ayton because of the reason you mentioned. Defensive instincts are so important for bigs. If I am Phoenix, I'm worried about Ayton and putting him at C. They have a terrible defense identity already. I'm more positive with him on the Kings.
I think the only thing I differ is that I think Ayton/Giles could work.
I think the only thing I differ is that I think Ayton/Giles could work.
I like both Ayton and Doncic equally.
The way I see it is that Ayton is the safer pick because he played college and is a physical specimen. I think you have 18 pts 8 rebounds per game guaranteed with him. His defense is suspect though, so you would need a strong scheme to help him.
My question is fit with Ayton. If Giles is as advertised, there is not much room for 2 alpha bigs in today's nba. Plus you will still need to sign or trade for a starting small forward.
Doncic is the most ideal fit IMHO. With a super high basketball IQ and filling our void at small forward with playmaking and shooting. He makes others around him better. He may not be an alpha scorer, but his presence would allow the Kings to move Buddy into the starting lineup and he has a good chance to become an alpha scorer. Bogdan would become our super sixthman.
In today's NBA you need strong wing play and because of that, I'm hoping Doncic falls to the Kings at #2.
The Kings line up would be ready to compete sooner than you might think. I can see them vying for the #8 seed in the playoffs next year.I
PF: Giles / Skal / ZBo
SF: Doncic / Jackson / Temple
C: WCS / KK
SG: Buddy / Bogdan / Shumpert
PG: Fox / Mason
The way I see it is that Ayton is the safer pick because he played college and is a physical specimen. I think you have 18 pts 8 rebounds per game guaranteed with him. His defense is suspect though, so you would need a strong scheme to help him.
My question is fit with Ayton. If Giles is as advertised, there is not much room for 2 alpha bigs in today's nba. Plus you will still need to sign or trade for a starting small forward.
Doncic is the most ideal fit IMHO. With a super high basketball IQ and filling our void at small forward with playmaking and shooting. He makes others around him better. He may not be an alpha scorer, but his presence would allow the Kings to move Buddy into the starting lineup and he has a good chance to become an alpha scorer. Bogdan would become our super sixthman.
In today's NBA you need strong wing play and because of that, I'm hoping Doncic falls to the Kings at #2.
The Kings line up would be ready to compete sooner than you might think. I can see them vying for the #8 seed in the playoffs next year.I
PF: Giles / Skal / ZBo
SF: Doncic / Jackson / Temple
C: WCS / KK
SG: Buddy / Bogdan / Shumpert
PG: Fox / Mason
Why are people so anti-playmaking? It's honestly infuriating. Who cares where Doncic plays? He's going to be another threat defenses have to focus in on to stop that will make life easier for everyone else on the floor. Now add Bogdan/Buddy/Fox? It creates a lot of problems for the defense where to limit your offense.
Playmaking and great passing DO NOT have diminishing returns. It only makes your offense that much more difficult to stop when you don't know exactly is going to be initiating the play. And you really don't have to look further than the Rockets and Warriors battling in the West Finals, as two of the greatest offensive teams of all-time.
Doncic. The all around high-level offensive skill set and the level of success he has enjoyed in Europe make it too hard for me to pass up. Plus him and Bogdon and Fox on the floor is going to be crazy play making ability. And the consolation prize is Ayton?! The Kings are winning at life right now.
Looking at the Suns roster, I'm pretty sure they take Ayton #1. They have Booker at SG and just picked Josh Jackson as their small forward last year. I don't think Doncic is a point guard. They have a glaring hole at center for them.
Assuming they value Doncic and Ayton equal, I think the Suns take Ayton #1, leaving Doncic at #2 for us.
Assuming they value Doncic and Ayton equal, I think the Suns take Ayton #1, leaving Doncic at #2 for us.