Who do we draft?

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Hey, I'm also hopingfor a combo of Fox or Frank and Isaac and maybe even Zach Collins even though he's not a SF but might be too good to pass on.
I, however, like probably a few others question what Vlade might pull especially with that crazy owners influence.
 
I have to agree about Smith's defense. I think he'll remind fans of Mike Bibby on that end... There will be some good defensive plays from him, he'll get his share of steals, but it will be like 1 play in 10. And as his scoring increases the defensive intensity, which is low to begin with, will go down. That's the usual pattern. He looks like a player who wants the steal and the fastbreak points/assist but won't lock in for the full 48 min.
 
Unfortunately Monk doesn't have PG skills. No way. No chance. That guy is scorer. He's a finisher. He's not a draw and dish guy. I like him but he's a SG. I think you or another poster may have had him slotted for 76ers. I agree he makes sense there with Simmons as point forward. Stauskas is not a starter in this league. Simmons needs targets to pass to, and Monk will a great catch and shoot guy. The dude is money. But he's not going to be a King. There are a lot of unknowns this draft.

But I declare this as a known. Monk will NOT be a King. I stake my reputation on it!

It is good news if 76ers key in on Monk. Even if 76ers pass I have fair level of confidence Vlade is going to get this right. I think he will be smart enough to draft length and defense and accentuate current strengths of the team. No Monk. No Markannen. Both these guys are good. But what are we going to do with them? I don't see it. They are comparable in terms of talent with what we have (Buddy, Skal) and do not address our weaknesses. Easy pass!

The more I see Frank N (not gonna bother to spell his last name :)) the more I am comfortable with the Kings drafting him. The guy has a tenacity and presence about him and obvious skillset. We need PG who denies penetration at top of the key. We saw how Rondo caused all sorts of issues allowing dribble penetration. Collison was hardly a stalwart. Lawson does decent job with angles and low center of gravity. But we need long term replacement and potential star.

Frank can shoot it. He has a poise about him. And he is held back by the half court offense his team runs that suppresses his production.

Kings were 27th in defensive efficiency. Your defense game plan devolves when you cannot slow point of attack. What's the point of having Temple and Willie and whoever else you think can defend if all they are doing is covering for weaknesses of teammates!!! For a team surrendering too many open 3s we don't need to scrambling all over place due to PG getting burned! Though offensive potential is enticing, this is what Smith and Markannen will bring. You are basically spinning your wheels in mud if their offensive production is not exemplary.

By contrast Fox and Frank N are not going to get burned on D. Frank N. has traits to be extraordinary ball stopper with skills on other end. This brings me to Smith. I think it was posted in this thread showing his defensive "skills". That was illuminating. As much as I like what Smith can do offensively, his defense is terrible. His lack of length and lateral mobility (ACL recovery?) is obvious. Which ever team drafts him, they will have a hard time keeping him on the floor if his D does not get appreciably better. I am concerned also he has tunnel vision as an offensive player.

We already saw with guys like Rudy, Tyreke and heck even John Salmons isolation ball does NOT work unless your efficiency is appreciably better than league average. I don't want to take chance again a guy like Smith is going to buck this trend. It would be great if he were an Isaiah Thomas, but I just think the odds are not great.

A lot of drafting well is process of elimination. I like Zach Collins but not enough to sit where we are if he's the default choice at #10. I am leaning towards wanting to package picks and trading up for Fox, or pick Frank N and Issac if we can get both. If it comes down to Frank N and Collins or Fox, I would rather have Fox. If it comes down to Frank N and Isaac or trading up for Fox, then give me both of those players.

There's noise and speculation and nonsense this time of year. It s fun! But when you cut through noise, and look at the needs of the team and strengths of draft, its not complicated....

Get Fox. Or Get Isaac and Frank. Or "die" trying.
I don't agree with everything you wrote here (it wouldn't surprise me if we draft Monk even though he's a terrible choice for us) but I liked it for the last part. Trade up if necessary just make sure we get Fox or Ntilikina this year. Come hell or high water. That's one key position solved. We can aim for solving SF or C next year. If we can somehow get Isaac too that's gravy, but the priority is PG.
 
I've got a new ideal scenario (subject to lottery hijinks screwing up the current order).

If the top 6 stay more or less the same we can scratch Fultz, Ball, Jackson off right away to whoever wins the lottery. If Philly is committed to Simmons and Embiid as their primary playmakers they could go with the best off the ball backcourt scorer which is easily Malik Monk. Jayson Tatum is a perfect fit for Orlando-- they need a featured scorer and a solution at SF. Fox may not seem like enough of an upgrade over Payton as they have similar strengths and weaknesses. That leaves Minnesota and New York. The TWolves have talent everywhere but they need shooters and they need to get better defensively. Jonathan Isaac checks the most boxes. They can play him at PF or slide Wiggins back to SG and improve defensively at 2 positions.

Now we're in a win-win scenario with New York on the board at #7 choosing between Fox and Ntilikina. I think Ntilikina makes a lot of sense for them. He can already shoot that corner three, he's used to playing off the ball in a structured team offense, and he can guard multiple positions. That means Fox falls to us at #8 in this scenario unless somebody trades up or the lottery drops more PG needy teams into the 4-7 slots.

That leaves the question of how to use our #10 pick. I think Dallas snaps up Dennis Smith immediately. Zach Collins or Lauri Markkanen look like the consensus best options but I'm not thrilled about either. You know who would be though? Stan Van Grundy! Get this man some reliable shooting. We'll help him out by dropping Markkanen into his lap at #10 in exchange for #12 and Stanley Johnson. I'll even throw in the #35 pick which is about to become extraneous.

The guy I want at #12 is Jawun Evans but this is still too high for him so we trade down again this time to Portland. Our #12 for their #18 and #20. They're not keeping all three firstround picks and this is about as high as they can expect to get by packaging them. Then we draft Jawun Evans and Bam Adebayo (keeping that Kentucky connection alive).

I'm going to guess that we let Lawson and McLemore go and buy out Afflalo but keep Tolliver, Koufos, and Temple. We re-sign Collison for 2 years (at a generous monetary value) and Rudy surprises us by opting in. Here's the roster:

D. Collison, D. Fox (R), J. Evans (R)
B. Hield, G. Temple, B. Bogdanovic (R)
S. Johnson, R. Gay, M. Richardson
S. Labissiere, A. Tolliver, B. Adebayo (R)
W. Cauley-Stein, K. Koufos, G. Papagiannis

The (R)'s denote the four rookies who may all see time in the D League to build their confidence up. I don't know about the Rudy Gay thing, maybe we look for a mid-level free agent SF instead or (gulp) just bring Afflalo back for a year but the idea here is that we have one veteran and two prospects at every position. It's the most balanced roster we've had since the Adelman days with young talent across the board and a good mix of scorers and defenders. It would also mean we can just go BPA wherever we pick in the draft next year without worrying about trying to tank for a top 5 pick or fill any particular position of need.
 
DSJ is going to prove people here wrong. Oh well, that's fine. Still don't see anything special about Frank. Doesn't have good ball handling, can't create separation, can't break defenses down, and can't finish around the rim. Sounds like a lot of necessary stuffs you need for a PG.. I'm not sold on his 3pt%, but he's a lot improved. His physical profile is probably his biggest selling point. If Frank was only 6'3 with a 6'9 wingspan, he'd be late 1st round talent..maybe.

Fox's 3pt shot. You just can't sugarcoat 24.6%. It's almost say to say that he's a non-factor from deep. Look at the recent wave of the struggling 3pt shooting PGs drafted in the NBA(1st round). Emmanuel Mudiay, Marcus Smart, Elfrid Payton, Dante Exum, Michael Carter-Williams, and Kendall Marshall.
Fox is a hardworker, but that's not a very encouraging list. Don't think you can survive in modern basketball without a PG who can shoot.
His 3pt shot is the only thing blocking that barrier of stealing the title of #1 overall player.

However, 3pt shooting is just way too valuable in today's NBA for him to go #1 over a shooter and scorer like Fultz. If this was 4-5 years ago, I think teams would've taken Fox over Fultz at #1. But then again, the Rondo from 4-5 years ago wouldn't crack the current Top 10 PG list.
 
Are we so certain Monk can't transition to PG? Especially with Buddy developing more as a playmaker/ball-handler, I do think we can get away with 2 combo guards who are lights-out shooters. Just as a pure talent, Monk is just one of my favorite players in this draft. There isn't a shot he can't make or create for himself and he's an absolute stud athlete. There's no ball-handling concerns for me and I do think he's underrate as a playmaker because he wasn't asked to do so next to Fox. He's also a guy who we don't have to question about effort or fire on the court.
I've tried but I can't see it. Neither Monk or Buddy are tight enough with the handle and I feel like it would diminish each of their impacts to have 2 players with similar skill sets. Not to mention my main problem with this.... defence. Opposing guards would have a field day.

Monk is an offensive talent and if we were to draft him, I'd be expecting a trade.
 
I've got a new ideal scenario (subject to lottery hijinks screwing up the current order).

If the top 6 stay more or less the same we can scratch Fultz, Ball, Jackson off right away to whoever wins the lottery. If Philly is committed to Simmons and Embiid as their primary playmakers they could go with the best off the ball backcourt scorer which is easily Malik Monk. Jayson Tatum is a perfect fit for Orlando-- they need a featured scorer and a solution at SF. Fox may not seem like enough of an upgrade over Payton as they have similar strengths and weaknesses. That leaves Minnesota and New York. The TWolves have talent everywhere but they need shooters and they need to get better defensively. Jonathan Isaac checks the most boxes. They can play him at PF or slide Wiggins back to SG and improve defensively at 2 positions.

Now we're in a win-win scenario with New York on the board at #7 choosing between Fox and Ntilikina. I think Ntilikina makes a lot of sense for them. He can already shoot that corner three, he's used to playing off the ball in a structured team offense, and he can guard multiple positions. That means Fox falls to us at #8 in this scenario unless somebody trades up or the lottery drops more PG needy teams into the 4-7 slots.

That leaves the question of how to use our #10 pick. I think Dallas snaps up Dennis Smith immediately. Zach Collins or Lauri Markkanen look like the consensus best options but I'm not thrilled about either. You know who would be though? Stan Van Grundy! Get this man some reliable shooting. We'll help him out by dropping Markkanen into his lap at #10 in exchange for #12 and Stanley Johnson. I'll even throw in the #35 pick which is about to become extraneous.

The guy I want at #12 is Jawun Evans but this is still too high for him so we trade down again this time to Portland. Our #12 for their #18 and #20. They're not keeping all three firstround picks and this is about as high as they can expect to get by packaging them. Then we draft Jawun Evans and Bam Adebayo (keeping that Kentucky connection alive).

I'm going to guess that we let Lawson and McLemore go and buy out Afflalo but keep Tolliver, Koufos, and Temple. We re-sign Collison for 2 years (at a generous monetary value) and Rudy surprises us by opting in. Here's the roster:

D. Collison, D. Fox (R), J. Evans (R)
B. Hield, G. Temple, B. Bogdanovic (R)
S. Johnson, R. Gay, M. Richardson
S. Labissiere, A. Tolliver, B. Adebayo (R)
W. Cauley-Stein, K. Koufos, G. Papagiannis

The (R)'s denote the four rookies who may all see time in the D League to build their confidence up. I don't know about the Rudy Gay thing, maybe we look for a mid-level free agent SF instead or (gulp) just bring Afflalo back for a year but the idea here is that we have one veteran and two prospects at every position. It's the most balanced roster we've had since the Adelman days with young talent across the board and a good mix of scorers and defenders. It would also mean we can just go BPA wherever we pick in the draft next year without worrying about trying to tank for a top 5 pick or fill any particular position of need.
Love it! The only thing I'd change is that I want Mikal Bridges in any trade down scenario. I hope he declares. He is one of the best wing defenders in the draft - if not the best. His combination of athleticism, foot speed, 6'7" size and 7'2" wingspan is a nightmare for every opponent. He regularly guards 1-5 for Villanova. Offensively, there is not much to see in terms of ball handling but he can make open 3s at a good clip. Give me Fox and Mikal Bridges and I'll be a happy camper. :)
 
I've got a new ideal scenario (subject to lottery hijinks screwing up the current order).

If the top 6 stay more or less the same we can scratch Fultz, Ball, Jackson off right away to whoever wins the lottery. If Philly is committed to Simmons and Embiid as their primary playmakers they could go with the best off the ball backcourt scorer which is easily Malik Monk. Jayson Tatum is a perfect fit for Orlando-- they need a featured scorer and a solution at SF. Fox may not seem like enough of an upgrade over Payton as they have similar strengths and weaknesses. That leaves Minnesota and New York. The TWolves have talent everywhere but they need shooters and they need to get better defensively. Jonathan Isaac checks the most boxes. They can play him at PF or slide Wiggins back to SG and improve defensively at 2 positions.

Now we're in a win-win scenario with New York on the board at #7 choosing between Fox and Ntilikina. I think Ntilikina makes a lot of sense for them. He can already shoot that corner three, he's used to playing off the ball in a structured team offense, and he can guard multiple positions. That means Fox falls to us at #8 in this scenario unless somebody trades up or the lottery drops more PG needy teams into the 4-7 slots.

That leaves the question of how to use our #10 pick. I think Dallas snaps up Dennis Smith immediately. Zach Collins or Lauri Markkanen look like the consensus best options but I'm not thrilled about either. You know who would be though? Stan Van Grundy! Get this man some reliable shooting. We'll help him out by dropping Markkanen into his lap at #10 in exchange for #12 and Stanley Johnson. I'll even throw in the #35 pick which is about to become extraneous.

The guy I want at #12 is Jawun Evans but this is still too high for him so we trade down again this time to Portland. Our #12 for their #18 and #20. They're not keeping all three firstround picks and this is about as high as they can expect to get by packaging them. Then we draft Jawun Evans and Bam Adebayo (keeping that Kentucky connection alive).

I'm going to guess that we let Lawson and McLemore go and buy out Afflalo but keep Tolliver, Koufos, and Temple. We re-sign Collison for 2 years (at a generous monetary value) and Rudy surprises us by opting in. Here's the roster:

D. Collison, D. Fox (R), J. Evans (R)
B. Hield, G. Temple, B. Bogdanovic (R)
S. Johnson, R. Gay, M. Richardson
S. Labissiere, A. Tolliver, B. Adebayo (R)
W. Cauley-Stein, K. Koufos, G. Papagiannis

The (R)'s denote the four rookies who may all see time in the D League to build their confidence up. I don't know about the Rudy Gay thing, maybe we look for a mid-level free agent SF instead or (gulp) just bring Afflalo back for a year but the idea here is that we have one veteran and two prospects at every position. It's the most balanced roster we've had since the Adelman days with young talent across the board and a good mix of scorers and defenders. It would also mean we can just go BPA wherever we pick in the draft next year without worrying about trying to tank for a top 5 pick or fill any particular position of need.
I like that trade only if we're sitting at #10 and Markkanen is the best thing available there. If someone else reaches for Markkanen and we're sitting there at #10 with Isaac or somebody available and we trade it for Stanley Johnson and #12, then I'm slitting my ****ing wrists.
 
I like that trade only if we're sitting at #10 and Markkanen is the best thing available there. If someone else reaches for Markkanen and we're sitting there at #10 with Isaac or somebody available and we trade it for Stanley Johnson and #12, then I'm slitting my ****ing wrists.
I think most of us like Isaac but in this scenario he goes to Minnesota at #6. The trade down is only if the top SFs are gone before #10 which they would probably have to be for us to get Fox without trading up.
 
pshn80

Here is why I'd win 25 games by not signing vets over 32 by overpaying a vet to come to Sacramento.

Between Buddy, Skal and the two picks this year ... I suppose their could be a franchise player in that mix, but I don't think the odds favor that. Hopefully, there is an All-Star and two starters. I don't need to see the list of great players that were drafted late, I get it. It's possible to get a guy there, but teams would rather pick higher on the board because its often a better bet.

The Kings aren't signing a franchise player via Free Agency. They won't have their 2019 1st round pick. I do believe there is enough raw talent on this roster and coming in that the Kings will be at the back of the lottery in 2020.

I suppose the Kings' could make season ticket holders happy by just trying to accumulate talent and try trade for a franchise player later ... but you zealots were crazy enough to sign up for tickets. You can talk yourself into next year's stinker because of the legitimate upside.
Are you not a zealot? I thought only zealots were allowed on here. What keeps you coming or watching or posting?

We will probably never get a franchise player. Cuz wasn't one though close. If we did get one it would have to be through trade. You don't have to have a franchise layer to win it all.

I buy season tickets because I'm a Kings fan. I follow what the team does with great interest. I am seldom a critic. I have found the vast majority of criticisms I have read on here to be unfounded. In good times and bad our FO has done well and, like most other teams, has some wins and some losses. Always nteresting. I have noticed over the years 29 teams don't win the championship. In fact most teams have never won a championship. So I g to the games and watch a great brand f basketball and eat a good hot dog and a beer to boot.
 
I've tried but I can't see it. Neither Monk or Buddy are tight enough with the handle and I feel like it would diminish each of their impacts to have 2 players with similar skill sets. Not to mention my main problem with this.... defence. Opposing guards would have a field day.

Monk is an offensive talent and if we were to draft him, I'd be expecting a trade.
That's the tricky part of the draft. It's roll of the dice even with the most prolific prospects. Monk could easily be the best player in the draft, with the different rules and level of compitition college hoop is almost an entirely different game so trying to evaluate nba talent is tougher than most people think. If Monk is on the board I take him providing Fox is gone. In short I THINK he's a nba PG and a damn good one.
 
That's the tricky part of the draft. It's roll of the dice even with the most prolific prospects. Monk could easily be the best player in the draft, with the different rules and level of compitition college hoop is almost an entirely different game so trying to evaluate nba talent is tougher than most people think. If Monk is on the board I take him providing Fox is gone. In short I THINK he's a nba PG and a damn good one.
Based on what Monk showed in his one year at Kentucky he has no business running an NBA offense. 2 assists a game to 2 turnovers and a shaky handle.
 
In theory, a Ntilikina & Cauley-Stein/Labissiere pairing could be ridiculously good at defending the pick and roll. That's a whole lot of length & lateral quickness.

I said it before Hield finished strong, but there's something really attractive about having a starting lineup that is full sized with all 7'0"+ wingspans:

PG - 6'5.0" / 7'0.0" - Ntilikina (at #10)
SG - 6'6.3" / 7'0.0" - Richardson
SF - 6'10.5" / 7'1.3" - Isaac (at #8)
PF - 6'11.8" / 7'2.5" - Labissiere
C - 7'0.5" / 7'3.0" - Cauley-Stein


Not to mention the rest of the young guys would have good size & wingpsans as well.

6'5.0" / 6'9.3" - Hield
6'6.3" / 6'11.1" - Bogdanovic
6'9.5" / 7'3.5" - Motley (at #34)
7'2.0" / 7'6" - Papagiannis
6'11.8" / 7'5.5" - Ayton (2018 1st Rounder?)
7'0.0" / 7'9.0" - Bamba (2018 1st Rounder?)

Let's just make size, length, athleticism, effort, & defense be our direction and go from there...
 
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Who has seen Jarrett Alan play? He's picked in one mock as a Kings' pick.
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/jarrett-allen
I know nothing about him except they recon he can be a rebounding, shotblocking machine. Interesting that they have have him going 10 while Frank N and Zach Collins are still on board. That's a good thing, I hope he continues to rise for our sake. Draftexpress has him at 12 so hes definitely consensus top 15.
 
Based on what Monk showed in his one year at Kentucky he has no business running an NBA offense. 2 assists a game to 2 turnovers and a shaky handle.
There were a few games where Fox was injured where Monk ran the show for UK and he looked capable. I'm not saying you or me are right or wrong but Calipari has a way of margilizing his players.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
There were a few games where Fox was injured where Monk ran the show for UK and he looked capable. I'm not saying you or me are right or wrong but Calipari has a way of margilizing his players.
Precisely. Coach Cal sets specific roles for his players at UK so we don't know to what extent that player can play. Monk was slotted to come off screens and be the primary scorer. It doesn't mean he can't come into the league and have PG capable handling and vision, and the scoring is a bonus.
 
I don't know how good Smith will be, but if he is still there at 8 would that give one pause? We "lucked" into Ben and T Rob sliding and it did not turn out well.

Red flags on Smith include reconstructed knee on an explosive player. Taking defensive plays off and poor body language when team was down.

If he is there at 8 and there are other options I would have reservations at least. Not saying I am right or wrong because no one knows till its too late.
 
DSJ is going to prove people here wrong. Oh well, that's fine. Still don't see anything special about Frank. Doesn't have good ball handling, can't create separation, can't break defenses down, and can't finish around the rim. Sounds like a lot of necessary stuffs you need for a PG.. I'm not sold on his 3pt%, but he's a lot improved. His physical profile is probably his biggest selling point. If Frank was only 6'3 with a 6'9 wingspan, he'd be late 1st round talent..maybe.

Fox's 3pt shot. You just can't sugarcoat 24.6%. It's almost say to say that he's a non-factor from deep. Look at the recent wave of the struggling 3pt shooting PGs drafted in the NBA(1st round). Emmanuel Mudiay, Marcus Smart, Elfrid Payton, Dante Exum, Michael Carter-Williams, and Kendall Marshall.
Fox is a hardworker, but that's not a very encouraging list. Don't think you can survive in modern basketball without a PG who can shoot.
His 3pt shot is the only thing blocking that barrier of stealing the title of #1 overall player.

However, 3pt shooting is just way too valuable in today's NBA for him to go #1 over a shooter and scorer like Fultz. If this was 4-5 years ago, I think teams would've taken Fox over Fultz at #1. But then again, the Rondo from 4-5 years ago wouldn't crack the current Top 10 PG list.
Almost thought I was in the Lanzo Ball thread
 
I don't know how good Smith will be, but if he is still there at 8 would that give one pause? We "lucked" into Ben and T Rob sliding and it did not turn out well.

Red flags on Smith include reconstructed knee on an explosive player. Taking defensive plays off and poor body language when team was down.

If he is there at 8 and there are other options I would have reservations at least. Not saying I am right or wrong because no one knows till its too late.
Hard not to have Cousins PTSD with his attitude issues. I understand the concerns, and it would be horrible to have to watch another guy with poor body language and a poor attitude for the next 4+years. All warranted criticisms, I guess we'll just have to see.
 
New mock draft from Sports Illustrated:

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/04/19/2017-nba-big-board-draft-markelle-fultz-lonzo-ball-deaaron-fox

In general I like Woo's analysis. I think he has Patton too high but I like his draft order if only because it would mean the Kings could land Isaac and Ntilikina.

But the real reason I'm linking to his mock draft is that I think he's right about Lonzo Ball sliding a bit. Everyone has him at either #2 or #3 right now but I wouldn't be surprised if he tumbles a few slots on draft day. He has yet to show he can produce in the halfcourt or deal with faster PGs on either offense or defense. Those are some big warts on his game right now.

Personally I'm still very much hoping for Isaac and one of the PGs - either Fox, Smith Jr or Ntilikina. If anything I'm coming around to the idea that with Isaac being more of a complimentary player (as Hield and Skal and Papa and Malachi and WCS also appear to be) that having a lead dog at PG in DSJ makes a lot of sense. But I think Woo is right on Smith Jr as well in that he'll go higher than most currently have him slotted.
 
New mock draft from Sports Illustrated:

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/04/19/2017-nba-big-board-draft-markelle-fultz-lonzo-ball-deaaron-fox

In general I like Woo's analysis. I think he has Patton too high but I like his draft order if only because it would mean the Kings could land Isaac and Ntilikina.

But the real reason I'm linking to his mock draft is that I think he's right about Lonzo Ball sliding a bit. Everyone has him at either #2 or #3 right now but I wouldn't be surprised if he tumbles a few slots on draft day. He has yet to show he can produce in the halfcourt or deal with faster PGs on either offense or defense. Those are some big warts on his game right now.

Personally I'm still very much hoping for Isaac and one of the PGs - either Fox, Smith Jr or Ntilikina. If anything I'm coming around to the idea that with Isaac being more of a complimentary player (as Hield and Skal and Papa and Malachi and WCS also appear to be) that having a lead dog at PG in DSJ makes a lot of sense. But I think Woo is right on Smith Jr as well in that he'll go higher than most currently have him slotted.
Like it. I'm not sure about Patton either but if he climbs to someone besides us in the top 10 all the better. Zach Collins is pretty consensus rising and if he goes before Markkanen as this suggest it will not surprise me. Still lots to workout before draft day.
 
New mock draft from Sports Illustrated:

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/04/19/2017-nba-big-board-draft-markelle-fultz-lonzo-ball-deaaron-fox

In general I like Woo's analysis. I think he has Patton too high but I like his draft order if only because it would mean the Kings could land Isaac and Ntilikina.

But the real reason I'm linking to his mock draft is that I think he's right about Lonzo Ball sliding a bit. Everyone has him at either #2 or #3 right now but I wouldn't be surprised if he tumbles a few slots on draft day. He has yet to show he can produce in the halfcourt or deal with faster PGs on either offense or defense. Those are some big warts on his game right now.

Personally I'm still very much hoping for Isaac and one of the PGs - either Fox, Smith Jr or Ntilikina. If anything I'm coming around to the idea that with Isaac being more of a complimentary player (as Hield and Skal and Papa and Malachi and WCS also appear to be) that having a lead dog at PG in DSJ makes a lot of sense. But I think Woo is right on Smith Jr as well in that he'll go higher than most currently have him slotted.
Not sure I agree with this big board, especially for the reason that you linked it. Jeremy Woo did a great job of highlighting every players weaknesses and was dead on with the majority of them. However, most of the other top players seem to have risen up the board, some significantly, yet Ball fell 4 spots. That's just unrealistic. Ball, for all his questions marks, showcased elite passing skills and great 3p accuracy. He has his question marks, but just like any other prospect. With his skill level and ceiling I just don't see how you can justify 5 players ahead of him. Also you touched on his defensive short comings, which is a valid concern, but is no more concerning for him as it is for Dennis Smith Jr, who also jumped pretty high in this big board. I've said it before, but I think a huge reason why people are so quick to discredit him and make his flaws seem more concerning than other prospects is because of the high likelihood he ends up on the Lakers and also his father. I remember two years ago when everyone was enamored with D'Angelo Russell and then the Lakers drafted him and everyone started calling him a future bust and immediately pointing out his flaws. Same thing happened last year with Brandon Ingram.

I also think he's way too high on Patton and Tatum. I love Tatum, but there's no way in hell he is a better prospect than Josh Jackson at the forward position.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
DSJ is going to prove people here wrong. Oh well, that's fine. Still don't see anything special about Frank. Doesn't have good ball handling, can't create separation, can't break defenses down, and can't finish around the rim. Sounds like a lot of necessary stuffs you need for a PG.. I'm not sold on his 3pt%, but he's a lot improved. His physical profile is probably his biggest selling point. If Frank was only 6'3 with a 6'9 wingspan, he'd be late 1st round talent..maybe.

Fox's 3pt shot. You just can't sugarcoat 24.6%. It's almost say to say that he's a non-factor from deep. Look at the recent wave of the struggling 3pt shooting PGs drafted in the NBA(1st round). Emmanuel Mudiay, Marcus Smart, Elfrid Payton, Dante Exum, Michael Carter-Williams, and Kendall Marshall.
Fox is a hardworker, but that's not a very encouraging list. Don't think you can survive in modern basketball without a PG who can shoot.
His 3pt shot is the only thing blocking that barrier of stealing the title of #1 overall player.

However, 3pt shooting is just way too valuable in today's NBA for him to go #1 over a shooter and scorer like Fultz. If this was 4-5 years ago, I think teams would've taken Fox over Fultz at #1. But then again, the Rondo from 4-5 years ago wouldn't crack the current Top 10 PG list.
Look, your in love with Smith, almost obsessively. I get it. Contrary to what you might think, I actually like Smith, and hope he's a different player once in the NBA. But I simply can't ignore his lapses during the season. Your willing to do that, and if Smith is the last guy standing, so am I. He's just not my first choice, and that's his fault, not that he cares. So we can disagree on whether the risk is worth it or not. OK? But for you to outright bash Ntilikina hurts your credibility.

Your basically saying in your post, that a player that's considered one of the best young PG's in europe, and also one of the best players period, in europe, is worthless. He can pass, he can't dribble, he can't get into the lane, he can't finish, and you also question his shooting, despite the fact that he put up better numbers than Smith. Smith shot 35.9% from the three, while Ntilikina shot 45.0% from the three. You don't have to bash Ntilikina in order to make any points about Smith.

Now, as far as Fox is concerned, I'm a big fan of players that can shoot the ball, especially PG's. So from that perspective, I think there's certainly some risk with Fox. I was not particularly fond of any of the PG's you listed, but they all had one thing in common. They had an ugly shot, especially Smart. And if you watched them shoot enough, which I did, they didn't appear to have any feel for shooting the ball. some had terrible rotation on the ball, or very little rotation at all.

When you add all those things up, you can come to a fair conclusion on whether they'll ever be a good shooter or not. So, when I look at Fox, I don't see a totally broken shot. What I see is a player that shoots off balance too often, or forces up shots that are highly contested. His form, while not perfect, isn't terrible, and when squared up, and open, he shoots the ball pretty well, which means he has a decent feel for shooting the ball. Fox in his last ten games of the year shot 47.3% from the three.

So it's my opinion that most of his shooting problems are correctable, and I'd be willing to gamble on that because of alll the other things he can do. Probably a moot point since he'll likely be gone before we pick. By the way, Fultz is more than just a shooter. he has very good court vision and is a very good passer. He''s also very unselfish. When you add in his athleticism an great size for the position, you have the reason he's the first pick in the draft.
 
Look, your in love with Smith, almost obsessively. I get it. Contrary to what you might think, I actually like Smith, and hope he's a different player once in the NBA. But I simply can't ignore his lapses during the season. Your willing to do that, and if Smith is the last guy standing, so am I. He's just not my first choice, and that's his fault, not that he cares. So we can disagree on whether the risk is worth it or not. OK? But for you to outright bash Ntilikina hurts your credibility.

Your basically saying in your post, that a player that's considered one of the best young PG's in europe, and also one of the best players period, in europe, is worthless. He can pass, he can't dribble, he can't get into the lane, he can't finish, and you also question his shooting, despite the fact that he put up better numbers than Smith. Smith shot 35.9% from the three, while Ntilikina shot 45.0% from the three. You don't have to bash Ntilikina in order to make any points about Smith.

Now, as far as Fox is concerned, I'm a big fan of players that can shoot the ball, especially PG's. So from that perspective, I think there's certainly some risk with Fox. I was not particularly fond of any of the PG's you listed, but they all had one thing in common. They had an ugly shot, especially Smart. And if you watched them shoot enough, which I did, they didn't appear to have any feel for shooting the ball. some had terrible rotation on the ball, or very little rotation at all.

When you add all those things up, you can come to a fair conclusion on whether they'll ever be a good shooter or not. So, when I look at Fox, I don't see a totally broken shot. What I see is a player that shoots off balance too often, or forces up shots that are highly contested. His form, while not perfect, isn't terrible, and when squared up, and open, he shoots the ball pretty well, which means he has a decent feel for shooting the ball. Fox in his last ten games of the year shot 47.3% from the three.

So it's my opinion that most of his shooting problems are correctable, and I'd be willing to gamble on that because of alll the other things he can do. Probably a moot point since he'll likely be gone before we pick. By the way, Fultz is more than just a shooter. he has very good court vision and is a very good passer. He''s also very unselfish. When you add in his athleticism an great size for the position, you have the reason he's the first pick in the draft.
Fox has decent form on his jumper. Some of it is not shooting on balance and I'm sure some of it is confidence but going back and watching him shoot more I really think part of it is a lack of leg strength.

Fox is an explosive leaper off one or two feet but when shooting it seems like he's not getting enough legs into his shot. The kid has absolute toothpick legs and hasn't gotten any bigger in the last year but I think with NBA trainers that will change and his shot will benefit. He'll never be big but he can increase his functional strength for sure.

How good can his shot be? I don't know.

But given his quickness is just needs to be good enough that defenses won't give him wide open looks like they do now.

I think Kawhi gave people an unrealistic idea of how much a guy can improve as a shooter. He's an outlier all the way. But I could see Fox having a Mike Conley like evolution as an outside shooter.
 
New mock draft from Sports Illustrated:

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/04/19/2017-nba-big-board-draft-markelle-fultz-lonzo-ball-deaaron-fox

In general I like Woo's analysis. I think he has Patton too high but I like his draft order if only because it would mean the Kings could land Isaac and Ntilikina.

But the real reason I'm linking to his mock draft is that I think he's right about Lonzo Ball sliding a bit. Everyone has him at either #2 or #3 right now but I wouldn't be surprised if he tumbles a few slots on draft day. He has yet to show he can produce in the halfcourt or deal with faster PGs on either offense or defense. Those are some big warts on his game right now.

Personally I'm still very much hoping for Isaac and one of the PGs - either Fox, Smith Jr or Ntilikina. If anything I'm coming around to the idea that with Isaac being more of a complimentary player (as Hield and Skal and Papa and Malachi and WCS also appear to be) that having a lead dog at PG in DSJ makes a lot of sense. But I think Woo is right on Smith Jr as well in that he'll go higher than most currently have him slotted.
Won't it be great on draft day if Ball slides to #6 and every time a team passes on him the camera pans to the Dad for his befuddled expression :) I concur with where this SI guy has Ball slotted as I have questioned his skill set since first time I saw him and before he got dominated by Fox in the biggest game of his career. I also like he has the sense to put Fox at #3 which is about where he belongs. I thought when season ended with #8 and #10 we were going to be up s*ht creek in regards to 2nd pick especially with Bridges staying in school. For now chances are looking better we may be able to snag Frank N and Isaac....which to be would be an epic haul. I think between getting both these guys versus trying to trade up for Fox is a tough call. It depends how impressive Frank N is in pre-draft workouts relative to other options. For now I lean toward two potential stars over one. And if Patton is legitimate riser into Top 10 this will help the trade up value.
 
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