I think Dennis Smith Jr has the higher ceiling, and certainly the ability to contribute more quickly from season 1. Smith Jr is a scorer who's highlights show he's also a talented passer and a capable shooter. You look at the highlights, what sticks out for Smith Jr is his lack of fear to mix it up on drives to the rim. He is not afraid to attack and finish. This may be a bit hazardous for him injury-wise in the NBA, but I would be very pleased if the Kings drafted him. He's undersized, but he should do well. Now Smith's defense is his weakness although it looks like he had some nice steals in highlights, and where Ntilikina gets the nod at first. I'd much rather get a confident NBA ready guard who wants the rock to the rim rather than a younger Talented European player who will need more development time.
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I think Dennis Smith Jr has the higher ceiling, and certainly the ability to contribute more quickly from season 1. Smith Jr is a scorer who's highlights show he's also a talented passer and a capable shooter. You look at the highlights, what sticks out for Smith Jr is his lack of fear to mix it up on drives to the rim. He is not afraid to attack and finish. This may be a bit hazardous for him injury-wise in the NBA, but I would be very pleased if the Kings drafted him. He's undersized, but he should do well. Now Smith's defense is his weakness although it looks like he had some nice steals in highlights, and where Ntilikina gets the nod at first. I'd much rather get a confident NBA ready guard who wants the rock to the rim rather than a younger Talented European player who will need more development time.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I watched Smith play in 14 to 15 games this season, not just highlights, which doesn't show any of the negatives. Sorry, I'm not a big fan, and most people that watched him play a lot this season have serious doubts about him. As do a lot of scouts. Youtube highlights show what a player is capable of, but what they don't show, is whether he's consistent or not. I believe he shot a decent three point percentage his year, but how did he get that percentage. He would go 4 out of 5 in one game, and 0 for 5 in the next. He did that all year long. Point is, he wasn't consistent. I don't question his talent. I question his desire.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
In fairness to all involved, if memory serves me correct, a lot of the same criticisms aimed at Smith JR now are the same as the ones levied at Andre Drummond in his time at UConn.
Of course, for every Andre Drummond who underachieves in college and then goes on to become a top ten player at his position, there are twenty guys who burn out of the league in the blink of an eye.
Would I be upset if the Kings draft Smith Jr? Nope. He's got elite talent and (barring another injury) he'll likely become slightly stronger and more explosive as he gets a bit further out from his ACL tear. I remember thinking, if DSJ could routinely be the player that helped NC State be Duke, he could be dynamite. Then I went back and rewatched the highlights of that game. Smith was dynamite and maybe more importantly his shots were going in. But even in that game he was missing open roll men off picks, forcing the action where it didn't need to be forced and taking less than ideal shots instead of moving the ball around.
He'll likely never be a great defender just because of his size and lackluster wingspan but I think Joerger will get him to compete on that end regularly. The question is if coach can convince him to take better shots, move the ball more and play a more team oriented game on offense. If Joerger thinks he can, then I'm good with Smith. But it's why I hope coach has a strong voice on draft day.
I have questions about every player in this draft (small ones about Fultz but still questions) but Smith Jr is one that worries me more than most - primarily because he looked selfish often and disinterested at times as well. And the injury history isn't one to easily dismiss either.
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
I'm not overly impressed with Smith, and quite frankly since the draft is become clogged with freshman it really is much more about potential than performance and that leads me to believe that I should be looking at guys that either have played good team ball or show the inclinations for it. I'm sure it bucks common wisdom but I might seriously be looking at Frank N. From France as a point guard Prospect. After last year's draft I'll probably put a lot of faith in Vlade on this one but all things being equal I'll take a kid that's played more team ball and has the size to defend in the NBA. Of course if the unexpected happens in Fox is available at the 7 or 8 you have to take him.
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Folsomkingsfan
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Not for nothing either, but his attitude was in question during the year as well. I usually don't put any stock into this, plus any issues about his attitude are likely overblown, but for the first time in years it looks like we finally have a team that has some solid chemistry and who truly enjoys playing with each other. If Dennis Smith has any questions about his attitude or selfishness come draft time I'd strongly be inclined to pass on him. The last thing we need is a guy coming in and immediately throwing everything off, especially in what could be a serious breakout season for Skal.
That's the only concern I have with Dennis Smith Jr -- if he's going to be a me-first player we might just want to save ourselves the headaches and avoid him from the beginning. It's tough to pass on that much talent especially if all the other top PGs are already off the board, but I can see the case for avoiding headcases at all costs. Somebody like Miles Bridges may not be as talented as Smith but if he's a hard-working team player he fits the culture we're trying to build better. I'm not ready to remove Smith from consideration yet. We still have the combine, team interviews, and individual workouts coming up and hopefully we'll get a better impression of his mental makeup through that process.
Telemachus
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In a lot of ways, Smith reminds me of Marbury. I think Marbury was more talented (and didn't have the desire issues), but his me first attitude often kept his teams from doing as well as they should have. Smith (like Marbury) never seems to make the players around him better. You could argue that some actually played better last year with a much less talented PG. This is why he scares me big time.
Folsomkingsfan
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It's going to be a very tough call. Smith looks like such a good player, but if he has an ounce of young Marbury or Steve Francis in him then I want to steer clear. Those players are awesome to watch and could lead you to the playoffs, but you'll never win anything serious with them. I won't fault Vlade if he picks him, but I'd go with Frank Ntilinka.
I agree that even if they pick up Ntilinka it will not be a poor pick. I just like Smith Jr's highlights better than others. If you've watched alot of game-time with him, maybe you have a better feel....I don't have time for it unfortunately. I wouldn't mind them drafting Markonnen and Bridges too. Smith Jr may be a bit of a gamble, anyway. It would be very hard to pass bridges with the 2nd pick.
Serious question though... do you think Russell Westbrook is a selfish player? What about James Harden? Both of those guys get mad at their teammates for taking shots away from them, chase stats, shoot their teams out of games at times, argue demonstrably on the court with their teammates, and just generally act like their teams belong to them. They're also the front runners for league MVP this year. If it comes down to a judgement call about character is there a point at which the talent is good enough to overrule those concerns? I'm sure the answers at this point in time will be slanted dramatically by the aftermath of the DeMarcus Cousins experience, but isn't there a certain amount of ego associated with every league superstar? If we pass on Dennis Smith Jr. because of attitude concerns and he ends up dominating the league in a few years, maybe even winning a scoring title or two, are we going to second guess that decision or are we going to be cool with sticking to "high character" guys even if it negatively impacts us in the win column?
I think that's the question to ask about Smith. He played on a terrible team and showed little instinct for running a team-based offense last year but seeing the league transition to an offensive play style where an exceptional athlete/shooter/ballhandler can really dominate teams just by running pick and rolls all night long and making the simple kick out passes when they're there, I think Smith might be second only to Fultz in this draft for scoring punch from the guard position. Remember all the things we found wrong with Steph Curry before the draft that year? Small, weak, can't run a team, can't defend, padded stats against poor competition? Now he's a two-time MVP. Some of this is just devil's advocate, but you can talk yourselves out of somebody by focusing only on their flaws. Just last year a lot of people didn't want Skal Labissiere at all because of the way he got abused by college players. He had blue chip potential and one bad year dropped him almost out of the first round. So while I'm not thrilled with the idea of Smith either, he's very boom or bust as a prospect, the potential is there for him to dominate as a scorer. And I think that potential should be weighed fairly. Especially where we're picking later in the lottery. We can't afford to miss on somebody because we didn't do our due diligence.
I think that's the question to ask about Smith. He played on a terrible team and showed little instinct for running a team-based offense last year but seeing the league transition to an offensive play style where an exceptional athlete/shooter/ballhandler can really dominate teams just by running pick and rolls all night long and making the simple kick out passes when they're there, I think Smith might be second only to Fultz in this draft for scoring punch from the guard position. Remember all the things we found wrong with Steph Curry before the draft that year? Small, weak, can't run a team, can't defend, padded stats against poor competition? Now he's a two-time MVP. Some of this is just devil's advocate, but you can talk yourselves out of somebody by focusing only on their flaws. Just last year a lot of people didn't want Skal Labissiere at all because of the way he got abused by college players. He had blue chip potential and one bad year dropped him almost out of the first round. So while I'm not thrilled with the idea of Smith either, he's very boom or bust as a prospect, the potential is there for him to dominate as a scorer. And I think that potential should be weighed fairly. Especially where we're picking later in the lottery. We can't afford to miss on somebody because we didn't do our due diligence.
Tim Duncan managed to lead his team to several titles without being a jerk. personally, I wouldn't want to watch either Westbrook or Harden on a regular basis, but I know there are a lot of fans who would.
That's a fair point. I have conflicting views on this. Sometimes I think it would be annoying rooting for a team that is all about getting one player the ball and staying out of the way. But then Houston and Oklahoma City fans get to watch playoff basketball this year and we don't. There's no rule that says superstar players need to be jerks, but a lot of them are just the same. It's hard enough just to find a superstar, can we afford to be choosy now about what kind of superstar we want too? I don't know. It's an open question.You could just as well ask if DeMarcus' attitude issues would have just been swept under the rug too if he was leading us to the playoffs every year. I think there's a good chance they would have been. The biggest dividing line in the fanbase for years has been whether his antics prevented us from winning or if other factors (coaching, roster construction, ownership meddling) were pulling us down. Generally speaking fans will put up with a lot when their team is winning.
I think it just depends on the circumstances. Jordan was as hard on his teammates as any player but he won championships so there's nothing you can say about that. Westbrook is amazing but when you look at stats like the fact that when he's on defense, he's challenged less 3 pointers than Whiteside. That tells you that he's leaving his man to go rebound hunting. Harden is a stat padder as well. These guys aren't rebounding beasts, they're leaving their assignments to go pile up statistics. In the end, the players like Leonard, James, Draymond etc will win out because they follow through on their assignments before chasing numbers.
Our problem with Cousins is basically everything you listed above. We never built a good enough roster around him and we drafted horribly. On top of that, Cousins wasted a lot of plays by not getting back on defense and not hustling when he got frustrated. If he scored 26, it was probably more like 20 due to the wasted possessions. With the games as close as they are, you simply cannot throw possessions away, especially as a bottom tier team. Not building/drafting a good roster and your star player not being as efficient as he should be is basically why we are where we are. We could have made the playoffs this year or maybe last year if Cousins was as efficient as a star player should be. Conversely, we could have made the playoffs multiple times if the F.O. didn't whiff on nearly every pick as all stars and possible hall of famers got picked after our guys.
Our problem with Cousins is basically everything you listed above. We never built a good enough roster around him and we drafted horribly. On top of that, Cousins wasted a lot of plays by not getting back on defense and not hustling when he got frustrated. If he scored 26, it was probably more like 20 due to the wasted possessions. With the games as close as they are, you simply cannot throw possessions away, especially as a bottom tier team. Not building/drafting a good roster and your star player not being as efficient as he should be is basically why we are where we are. We could have made the playoffs this year or maybe last year if Cousins was as efficient as a star player should be. Conversely, we could have made the playoffs multiple times if the F.O. didn't whiff on nearly every pick as all stars and possible hall of famers got picked after our guys.
Zach Collins is sure gaining steam in the draft rankings, nbadraft.net now has him at 11. I know another center is not a priority at all but the way things are looking for where we pick we might have to go BPA.
I still think we can land one of the top PG's or maybe even Isaac as he is dropping on some draft boards, so we should fill at least one position of need through the draft.
I still think we can land one of the top PG's or maybe even Isaac as he is dropping on some draft boards, so we should fill at least one position of need through the draft.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Hopefully Collins climbs even more and gets picked by another team in lieu of one of our desired guys.
That's the desired result. There is almost always a climber or two.
Suicide King
Starter
OG Anunoby finally declared. I hope his recovery went well and he impresses in workouts. Even if he goes eslewhere I am intrigued at his potential.
Iv'e been watching some clips on him lately. I hope it goes well for him as well, he has steal of the draft potential and a huge wingspan.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Your absolutely right. I said many of the same things about Drummond. As I said, I'm not denying his talent. And Like Drummond, he may turn into a great player. But I don't think the Kings are in a position to take any kind of risk. Just my opinion, and if we draft him, I certainly hope I'm wrong about him.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
kings are in position #9. they can get bumped out if 2 teams jump ahead. if pelis move up to top 3 and 2 other teams leap frog.. kings might have no 1st rd picks this draft.
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Had the Kings been getting to the playoffs every year, I doubt if DMC would have had as many attitude issues.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
No, they are actually tied for #8. So wonderful that OKC managed to beat the T-Wolves in the final 7 seconds w/o Westbrook.
I don't want to hear about the T-Wolves as an up and coming team anymore. All that supposed great young talent and they couldn't win more games than the Kings this season despite the fact that they blew up their team at the all-star break.
Hoovtrain
All-Star
DAL just leapfrogged them
theclash4u5
Starter
So long 6th pick....best we can do is cross our fingers and hope we get 8th. Dallas will lose @ Blazers so we need a loss @ Clippers just for a chance at 8th. T-Wolves @ Houston...not gonna happen
What you're describing with Westbrook and Harden is that alpha dog mentality. Not every team leader needs to have that approach, but I don't mind it most of the time. When Harden said the Rockets were "Me, Dwight and role players" that's crossing the line to being a bad teammate but knowing you're the man and acting like it isn't a big deal to me.
Cousins was also a different story. He badly wants to win but can't properly channel his emotions and lets himself get mentally taken out of games (and into pointless battles with refs, the media, other players etc) because of it.
What I see with Dennis Smith Jr is an entirely different attitude. It's apathy.
There are times where it just looks like he doesn't care.
Yes the ball hogging and over dribbling bother me. So does his questionable shot selection. But Smith is a good ballhandler, an improving shooter and excellent at attacking the basket while also showing very good court vision at times. Most of his weaknesses could be addressed through coaching and work on his part, if he buys in. But his attitude is what concerns me. How much drive does he have?
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
They have the exact same record. Thus tied for 8th. Coin flip to decide should they both lose or win the final game.
Hoovtrain
All-Star
That's not the way espn , draft express or NBA draft net has it. I believe there is a tie breaker already in place, but who knows.
There is no tiebreaker. There is a coin flip. We have been involved in them several times in the last few years. ESPN, DX and NBADraft are probably listing the tied teams alphabetically.
OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
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Sources: Michigan State's Miles Bridges cancelled agent meetings, leaning heavily toward returning for sophomore year. Lottery pick talent.
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account@WojVerticalNBASources: Michigan State's Miles Bridges cancelled agent meetings, leaning heavily toward returning for sophomore year. Lottery pick talent.
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