Who do we draft?

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Blob

Blob

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#301
#301
Lonzo Ball got punked last night in front of 30 NBA scouts in person and I am not surprised. I loved Fox game since I first started scouting him and warned everyone on this forum not to fall in love with Lonzo Ball two weeks ago!!! Lonzo could not get into the lane at all....his defense was horrible. He hedged on picks backed off his guy without any ball pressure and just had a too-cool-for-school attitude in the biggest game of his career. And he doesn't even play hard!

His physique is like a teenage cheerleader but that may be selling short teenage cheerleaders. Lonzo Ball is a poor mans Ricky Rubio and I am NOT a fan of Rubio. I hope the Lakers are in position to draft Ball because they may be drafting a bust. One of the reasons Ball had a good season is because his UCLA teammates are talented. They can shoot and attack the rim. Lonzo Ball has a cool name. If his name was Joe Smith there would not be the same hype! I mean if you play ball what cooler name could you have than "Ball"? :) Lonzo rolls of the tongue too. Any GM who takes Ball over Fox is a fool and I will be laughing if and when that happens.

About Malik Monk....that guy is talented but he's NOT a PG. He's a SG and Buddy is a better than him or on same level. I hope wherever we pick Monk is picked ahead of both our picks because there is NO reason to have any serious interest in Monk. Talented but pass.
 
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kingsboi

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#302
#302
Blob said:
Lonzo Ball got punked last night in front of 30 NBA scouts in person and I am not surprised. I loved Fox game since I first started scouting him and warned everyone on this forum not to fall in love with Lonzo Ball two weeks ago!!! Lonzo could not get into the lane at all....his defense was horrible. He hedged on picks backed off his guy without any ball pressure and just had a too-cool-for-school attitude in the biggest game of his career. And he doesn't even play hard!

His physique is like a teenage cheerleader but that may be selling short teenage cheerleaders. Lonzo Ball is a poor mans Ricky Rubio and I am NOT a fan of Ricky Rubio. I really hope the Lakers are in position to draft Ball because they may be drafting a bust. One of the reasons Ball had a good season is because his UCLA teammates are talented scorers. They can shoot and attack the rim. Lonzo Ball has a really cool name. If his name was Joe Smith there would not be the same hype!!!! I mean if you play basketball what cooler name could you have than "Ball"? :) Lonzo rolls of the tongue too. Any GM who takes Ball over Fox is a fool and I will be laughing if and when that happens.

About Malik Monk....that guy is talented but he's NOT a PG. He's a SG and Buddy is a better than him or on same level. I hope wherever we pick Monk is picked ahead of both our picks because there is NO reason to have any serious interest in Monk. Talented player but pass.
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Hopefully Ball will be drafted in the top 3 so the Kings don't have a chance to even think twice on drafting him. There are 4 guards I'd take ahead of him.
 
Blob

Blob

Starter
#305
#305
kingsboi said:
Yes sir
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When UCLA fell behind a legitimate #1 or #2 pick in a loaded draft against player competing for higher draft position, not to mention advancing in the tourney, exerts his will over the game! He doesn't wilt like a week old flower. This is actually the problem I had with Willie. I did NOT want the Kings to draft him because he disappeared in major way in the tourney when his team was eliminated. He was like 4 points and 3 boards in his last collegiate game....as a junior against mostly freshman!

What concerned me about Ball is that he could NOT get into the lane, draw fouls or force the defense to collapse to get his teammate an easy shot. Extent of his penetration was less than 15 feet from the basket. Then if you watch him defensively he was backing WAY off Fox. What does this tell you? It tells me he was afraid of Fox quickness and blow-by ability. He was trying to anticipate and hedge over the screen. It was just guessing game Ball was playing and he guessed wrong all night to the tune of 39 points by Fox! It will be fascinating to see if Ball retains his status as #1 or #2. There is group think and then there's daring to be right. I prefer the latter!
 
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kingsboi

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#307
#307
Blob said:
When UCLA fell behind a legitimate #1 or #2 pick in a loaded draft against player competing for higher draft position, not to mention advancing in the tourney, exerts his will over the game! He doesn't wilt like a week old flower. This is actually the problem I had with Willie. I did NOT want the Kings to draft him because he disappeared in major way in the tourney when his team was eliminated. He was like 4 points and 3 boards in his last collegiate game....as a junior against mostly freshman!

What concerned me about Ball is that he could NOT get into the lane, draw fouls or force the defense to collapse to get his teammate an easy shot. Extent of his penetration was less than 15 feet from the basket. Then if you watch him defensively he was backing WAY off Fox. What does this tell you? It tells me he was afraid of Fox quickness and blow-by ability. He was trying to anticipate and hedge over the screen. It was just guessing game Ball was playing and he guessed wrong all night to the tune of 39 points by Fox! It will be fascinating to see if Ball retains his status as #1 or #2. There is group think and then there's daring to be right. I prefer the latter!
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I can still see Ball going in the top 3 despite that performance. It really depends on how the lottery plays itself out. Either that or draft him and trade him depending on the team. My number one concern from the get go with Ball was always that jumpshot, it's strange and there are no mechanics. Second, he will be a productive player because he has good court vision and he plays the point effortlessly. That said, he isn't one of the players I see with franchise player potential and that's what I look at when it comes to drafting.
 
Blob

Blob

Starter
#308
#308
kingsboi said:
I can still see Ball going in the top 3 despite that performance. It really depends on how the lottery plays itself out. Either that or draft him and trade him depending on the team. My number one concern from the get go with Ball was always that jumpshot, it's strange and there are no mechanics. Second, he will be a productive player because he has good court vision and he plays the point effortlessly. That said, he isn't one of the players I see with franchise player potential and that's what I look at when it comes to drafting.
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Ball was exposed last night against Kentucky like no player I can recall in recent memory. Exposed as weak flawed player on the biggest stage. I would be unstoppable against the JV high school squad. Against Division II college caliber my jumper and first step is not quite as lethal. ;)
 
KingsFanSince85

KingsFanSince85

All-Star
#310
#310
On a side note, I sure would like to see Jordan Bell available when the Kings make their 2nd round selection. That kid balled out tonight and looks like a nice project player.
 
kingsboi

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#312
#312
Blob said:
Ball was exposed last night against Kentucky like no player I can recall in recent memory. Exposed as weak flawed player on the biggest stage. I would be unstoppable against the JV high school squad. Against Division II college caliber my jumper and first step is not quite as lethal. ;)
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Cut the guy some slack, he is only a freshman. With time and proper development, he should turn out just fine. I just hope that isn't on this team, that is all. If he is going to be good for another team and the Kings had the opportunity to draft him, so be it.
 
Blob

Blob

Starter
#313
#313
kingsboi said:
Cut the guy some slack, he is only a freshman. With time and proper development, he should turn out just fine.
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Excuse me but that's not the point. The point is whether he's worthy of being the 1st or 2nd pick in a loaded draft with guys like Isaac and Jackson who have serious game. That question was answered in part with his miserable, invisible and passive performance. Future superstars don't show so abysmally no matter what Dad wants you to believe! I will tell you that I had no such criticism for Ben Simmons or Chris Dunn and Simmons was humbled in Las Vegas summer league and Dunn was sad this season with the Wolves. Ball will be fortunate to fare as modestly. The NBA is a very unforgiving league especially to guys who don't play hard can't defend and have jumpers only a Mother could love!
 
Blob

Blob

Starter
#314
#314
Blob said:
Who's judging him on one game? I didn't like him before he got destroyed by Fox. And comparing Ball to Kidd is just wishing on a star.
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And just for the record this is what I said about Lonzo Ball before Fox served him his lunch in front of the basketball world:

I wouldn't be so quick to fall in love with Lonzo Ball. The guy is going to get torched on D. I don't know who he is going to guard. His body is terrible. He obviously has great instincts for the game but that schoolyard doesn't fly in NBA. He does have high confidence and swagger to his game but he is going to get humbled fast against guys who will crowd him. You know who he reminds me of and its not a flattering comparison....Austin Rivers!
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To the team who wants to spend a Top 5 pick on the next Austin Rivers I say better you than the Kings!
 
kingsboi

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#315
#315
Blob said:
Excuse me but that's not the point. The point is whether he's worthy of being the 1st or 2nd pick in a loaded draft with guys like Isaac and Jackson who have serious game. That question was answered in part with his miserable, invisible and passive performance. Future superstars don't show so abysmally no matter what Dad wants you to believe! I will tell you that I had no such criticism for Ben Simmons or Chris Dunn and Simmons was humbled in Las Vegas summer league and Dunn was sad this season with the Wolves. Ball will be fortunate to fare as modestly. The NBA is a very unforgiving league especially to guys who don't play hard can't defend and have jumpers only a Mother could love!
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Look, I'm not trying to make a case for Ball becoming some all world NBA player. However, Isaac in no way shape or form is worthy of a top 3 pick either IMO. Jackson I agree with you on that one. Future superstars aren't made in their freshman years. I think the dislike for Ball's father clouds your judgment at times on Lonzo and that shouldn't be the case. Let the kid play the game and learn and then criticize him.
 
hrdboild

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#316
#316
We really need NY and Orlando to win some games at the end here and Philly to stop winning. The odds of us and the Sixers drawing lotto balls as six and seven seeds is slim and none. As four and five the odds are a little better but at least the fallback is in the 5-6 range where we could hope for Fox, Jackson, or Isaac falling to us. We'd still get a good player at 7 but it'd be nice to have options for a change instead of just dealing with whoever falls to us and hoping we can find a position for them.
 
kingjatt

kingjatt

Starter
#317
#317
The group of guys at the top this draft gets me excited but this situation is very volatile. First the Pelicans are winning alot more making that pick worse. Then the sixers are winning alot more and are actually coming together quite well, they will win more games than us. We could very well end up closer to the worse case scenario than the best.

Then theres the whole Vlade thing, We dont know if he has bought into the Lonzo hype, would he drop his rule of not picking guys who wont workout for us? will vivek fall in love with the next steph curry, klay thompson? too many variables at play with this draft and it is a make or break draft for us as 2019 is coming up quickly.
 
J

Jimbob

Bench
#318
#318
hrdboild said:
We really need NY and Orlando to win some games at the end here and Philly to stop winning. The odds of us and the Sixers drawing lotto balls as six and seven seeds is slim and none. As four and five the odds are a little better but at least the fallback is in the 5-6 range where we could hope for Fox, Jackson, or Isaac falling to us. We'd still get a good player at 7 but it'd be nice to have options for a change instead of just dealing with whoever falls to us and hoping we can find a position for them.
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Don't worry about Philli, the Sacramento Hyatt Regency will be doing the 76ers catering the rest of the season. I hear they make a great bacon cheeseburger. Orlando won a game recently, New York seems to have no interest in winning, Minnesota major choke to the master tankers Lakers yesterday. Seems tank mode is in the air.
 
Blob

Blob

Starter
#319
#319
kingsboi said:
Look, I'm not trying to make a case for Ball becoming some all world NBA player. However, Isaac in no way shape or form is worthy of a top 3 pick either IMO. Jackson I agree with you on that one. Future superstars aren't made in their freshman years. I think the dislike for Ball's father clouds your judgment at times on Lonzo and that shouldn't be the case. Let the kid play the game and learn and then criticize him.
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His Dad doesn't affect my opinion of him one way or other. I think there is tendency by fans to overate unselfishness in PG and automatically think he is going to make everyone better. That works to degree but if there is such a thing as a PG being too shot-dominant the inverse is true. There was play on give-and-go where Ball got ball back and was wide open for lay-up and instead of two easy points he curled the ball out to corner. It was ridiculous! It looked like he was on the Globetrotters the way he was lolly gagging out there.

Do you know partly what makes the best passing PGs so effective? And this goes all the way back to Magic. They are guys who can score and require the defense to respect that ability. Magic would force double or take a drive lane and then dish off a pass. He didn't have a shot until later in his career but his passing wizardry was predicated on attention teams had to pay him to be scoring threat. Fast forward to today and look at guys like Paul and Isaiah. Those guys are so difficult to check because they force defense to collapse. They set up the pass with their shot and threat to shoot.

Even a guy like Ty Lawson plays his best when there is balance between probing the lane looking to score letting it fly from deep. It is keeping the opponent off-balance that is the basis of their effectiveness.

Then you have guys like Elfrid Payton and Rubio who are pass-dominant to a fault. I am sorry but the T'Wolves should be closer to an 8th seed than 28-44! His "unselfishness" is compensation for fact he cannot score. I knowing he's playing better but too little too later. And this brings me Ball. Does he have a wicked crossover? Is he going to get all the way to the basket against defenses with that frail frame of his? Is he going to get thrown off driving lanes against more physical defenders? Is that ugly shot of his going to go in? Because if not a legitimate threat to score, he's reduced to a guy who throws nice entry passes and occasional lob but won't meet lofty expectation.

Best case scenario is he develops his body and shot and his size and first step allow him to get into lane and make plays. Maybe that happens. But I saw a guy vs Kentucky who has outclassed and outmatched against other freshman. And disconcerting was he did not seize on the magnitude of moment by (1) getting aggressive defensively to bother a guy who clearly had a game going and (2) did not answer with scoring plays of his own to make Fox work more on that one. Ball was exposed as more hype than substance, and I am sure a lot of GMs are reevaluating where he belongs in this draft.
 
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C

CelticsFan

Bench
#321
#321
If Jackson is available at 3 I would love to see the Kings try and move up for him though it's probably doubtful. Jackson had a tough game last night but he is a straight up beast defensively, I think he has real potential to be a Kawhi type player. If Jackson and Ball were both on the board when I pick I'm taking Jackson
 
Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

ceterum censeo delendum esse Argentum
Staff member
#323
#323
dude12 said:
Watching UNC and Kentucky...not terribly crazy on Jackson
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We should probably be careful to keep our Jacksons straight. There's Josh Jackson of Kansas, a freshman who is a probable top-5 pick, and Justin Jackson of UNC, who is a junior and likely going in the second half of the first round. I would love to take Justin Jackson if he slipped to the early second round with our pick from the Sixers, but I don't really think that's going to happen. I don't imagine he would be a target for our lottery picks. I guess if the New Orleans pick drops into the mid-teens and we spend our first one on a PG, and pickings start getting thin...then Justin Jackson might get a look. But right now I don't think that's too likely.
 
D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#325
#325
Capt. Factorial said:
We should probably be careful to keep our Jacksons straight. There's Josh Jackson of Kansas, a freshman who is a probable top-5 pick, and Justin Jackson of UNC, who is a junior and likely going in the second half of the first round. I would love to take Justin Jackson if he slipped to the early second round with our pick from the Sixers, but I don't really think that's going to happen. I don't imagine he would be a target for our lottery picks. I guess if the New Orleans pick drops into the mid-teens and we spend our first one on a PG, and pickings start getting thin...then Justin Jackson might get a look. But right now I don't think that's too likely.
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That's why I points out the UNC game......Justin Jackson should not be a option for us with the 2 lotto picks......I thought he got D'ed up by a combo guard fairly easy. Josh Jackson will be gone before we can take him. But anyway, was just making a point that I didn't like his game so much.......late 1st rounder type
 
2

206Fan

All-Star
#326
#326
Blob said:
Excuse me but that's not the point. The point is whether he's worthy of being the 1st or 2nd pick in a loaded draft with guys like Isaac and Jackson who have serious game. That question was answered in part with his miserable, invisible and passive performance. Future superstars don't show so abysmally no matter what Dad wants you to believe! I will tell you that I had no such criticism for Ben Simmons or Chris Dunn and Simmons was humbled in Las Vegas summer league and Dunn was sad this season with the Wolves. Ball will be fortunate to fare as modestly. The NBA is a very unforgiving league especially to guys who don't play hard can't defend and have jumpers only a Mother could love!
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He showed up the last time they played Kentucky...and guess what, he outplayed Fox.

I don't want to make you feel bad, but you need to give him some slack for his performances lately. His mom had a very serious stroke, and the boys haven't been allowed to see her. He's going through major personal problems right now, so I don't think its fair to call his performance "miserable and invisible".

I also don't get why you would criticize Ball for being too "passive" but not the same for Isaac. Ball isn't a scoring guard, and I don't know why you hold that against him so much. It's like being upset that Fultz isn't a better facilitator. Why isn't Fultz a facilitator? Because he's more of a scorer. Same applies for Ball.

Funny no one wanted to criticize Ball's 18pts 9asts 7rebs vs. Cincinnati, but care to criticize him after 1 poor game.
 
Blob

Blob

Starter
#327
#327
206Fan said:
He showed up the last time they played Kentucky...and guess what, he outplayed Fox.

I don't want to make you feel bad, but you need to give him some slack for his performances lately. His mom had a very serious stroke, and the boys haven't been allowed to see her. He's going through major personal problems right now, so I don't think its fair to call his performance "miserable and invisible".

I also don't get why you would criticize Ball for being too "passive" but not the same for Isaac. Ball isn't a scoring guard, and I don't know why you hold that against him so much. It's like being upset that Fultz isn't a better facilitator. Why isn't Fultz a facilitator? Because he's more of a scorer. Same applies for Ball.

Funny no one wanted to criticize Ball's 18pts 9asts 7rebs vs. Cincinnati, but care to criticize him after 1 poor game.
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Why do I need to cut him slack? I am just posting my observations like I would for any player. I don't think Ball is good as he is made out to be. You are entitled to feel differently. I think he is a player subject to a higher level of scrutiny because he is projected as #1 or #2 pick in loaded draft. So I am watching asking if he is worthy of that high regard with extremely (more?) talented players slotted in mocks to be selected after him.

GMs may be rethinking where he belongs on their draft boards after he got dominated by Fox with no answer on either end. Its not just that he got outplayed he got destroyed. That's unfortunate about his Mom. I am sure it weighs on him. Sometimes a player will find solace on the court when something like that happens. So whether it hurt his performance is not something I can conclude one way or other.

Regardless I saw a guy who wanted no part of Fox so backed off him because he was afraid of his speed. Then on offense he was not getting penetration into the key. That's not an elite competitor in the biggest game of his career. He flopped. Not only was I unimpressed with his skills I didn't like his effort. But the beauty of sport is he will have a chance to prove that game was an anomaly and how good (great) he is starting in Las Vegas. I look forward to seeing him play there preferably in a uniform without Kings on the front.
 
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J

Jimbob

Bench
#329
#329
Just a thought. Say we go with a PG our 1st pick as Tatum, Jackson and Isaac are off the board and besides we need a PG. Our 2nd pick is closer to 10 because the Pels are rolling. I have seen lots of mention of Rudy , MKG, Porter, but whats the likelihood Detroit might want our 2nd 1st for Stanley Johnson.

He was brought up on these boards before the Feb trade deadline. Hes not getting a lot of burn in Detroit and he has the tools, 7 ft WS to be a lock-down defender. He only came out 2015 so could grow with this youth movement. Anyways perhaps I overestimate his potential, or believe hes not in favor in Detroit, but I think many of us are seeing getting Isacc and Fox or Ntilinkia, is not that realistic nor is prying Porter away from Washington.
 
K

kingdivac

All-Star
#330
#330
Joshoua said:
Kidd comparisons are hilarious really, he's Rubio with a jump shot and no defense
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He does remind me of Kidd on the break, but Kidd as an All-Star and an NBA Champion was all about his knack for steals and defensive disruption. None of the highlights show that kind of anticipation and reactions for Ball. He had an awful game, but he's still a very good player, with a high motor. I would not be upset if he fell to the Kings although he's getting too much hype thanks to his obnoxious father. As many have wrote, embarrassing.
 
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