Where does Peja rank amongst fellow foreign NBA players?
- Thread starter Nikos
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No he wouldn't; opposing teams double off of San Antonio's SF because Bruce Bowen isn't an offensive threat. If they had an offensive threat starting at SF, opposing teams would double off the C position... Besides, why would you leave a player like Stojakovic open, when it's so easy to take him out of his offense? Hell, you wouldn't even have to put a "really" good defender on him to shut him down.
6'10"-plus? I can think of five off the top of my head: Garnett, Stoudamire, Nowitzki, Webber, Odom.
And what does three-point shooting have to do with defensive rebounding? What's your excuse for that? And who says that Stojakovic isn't allowed to do something besides shoot three-pointers? Even Nowitzki takes his man off the dribble and drives the lane *once* in a while...
Wow, he "shut down" an injured Rashard Lewis; color me unimpressed.
There is WAY more to being a clutch player than hitting the game winner, and if you don't think that Ginobili is clutch, you clearly missed the 2005 playoffs. Ginobili is clutch; Stojakovic isn't.
6'10"-plus? I can think of five off the top of my head: Garnett, Stoudamire, Nowitzki, Webber, Odom.
And what does three-point shooting have to do with defensive rebounding? What's your excuse for that? And who says that Stojakovic isn't allowed to do something besides shoot three-pointers? Even Nowitzki takes his man off the dribble and drives the lane *once* in a while...
Wow, he "shut down" an injured Rashard Lewis; color me unimpressed.
There is WAY more to being a clutch player than hitting the game winner, and if you don't think that Ginobili is clutch, you clearly missed the 2005 playoffs. Ginobili is clutch; Stojakovic isn't.
Consider this:
Per 48 min:
Peja 05:
25.2pts (.444 FG% .402 3pt% .920 FT%) 5.4rebs 2.6ast 1.5stl 0.2blk 1.9TO
Peja career:
26.0pts (.465 FG% .398 3pt% .890 FT%) 7.0rebs 2.8ast 1.5stl 0.2blk 2.3TO
Manu 05:
26.0pts (.471 FG% .376 3pt% .803 FT%) 7.2rebs 6.3ast 2.6stl 0.6blk 3.8TO
Things that make you go hmmm...before we even get to the heart, hustle, and toughness categories.
Per 48 min:
Peja 05:
25.2pts (.444 FG% .402 3pt% .920 FT%) 5.4rebs 2.6ast 1.5stl 0.2blk 1.9TO
Peja career:
26.0pts (.465 FG% .398 3pt% .890 FT%) 7.0rebs 2.8ast 1.5stl 0.2blk 2.3TO
Manu 05:
26.0pts (.471 FG% .376 3pt% .803 FT%) 7.2rebs 6.3ast 2.6stl 0.6blk 3.8TO
Things that make you go hmmm...before we even get to the heart, hustle, and toughness categories.
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Overrated implies to me that he either can't do, or hasn't done, what people are claiming that he can do, and that doesn't apply to Ginobili. Is he Top 5 in the league? No. Is he Top 5 among International players? Absolutely.
And I don't think that there is a single GM in the NBA that would take Stojakovic over Kirilenko, if both were available at the same price. Not one... And the next time that Stojakovic makes an impact in a relevant game will be the first.
And I don't think that there is a single GM in the NBA that would take Stojakovic over Kirilenko, if both were available at the same price. Not one... And the next time that Stojakovic makes an impact in a relevant game will be the first.
Looking at both your guy's posts it is one extreme to another. IT seems that you Slim underate Pedja's contribution as much as he overate it. Just by reading "Not one... And the next time that Stojakovic makes an impact in a relevant game will be the first." we could tell. But fail to mention his last two seasons and even in the playoffs when he brought it to Dallas with his defence and his overal performance in times we need defence. Looking back, his defence in the playoffs the last two years were best of any King during that time. Now with the offense it is ofcourse has been different but he is improving it alittle last season. His presence is felt when he plays his game healthy
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I tend to agree.
Also to mention. That explosion from Peja (he was the main part) and Bibby vs. T'Wolves G3 late in the third or starting in the 4th qtr to send it into OT. Peja had 22 points from that, having just 7 before the comeback. As we were just flat up till then, down by 14 or 15 +. Though we lost because of KG, it still happened and was great to see.
Hassell played him well overall in 3 games in that series though.
As Rick said, and we all saw he played well (coming off a second injury, and the trade happened) and like the old Peja in the last month tops, and into the playoffs. Yes he hurt his groin at Lakers in April (where he scored 14 points in the 1st qtr, looking to have a high 30-40 point night, then out of nowhere strained his groin), but he still didn't have a bad or medicore playoff series. Even when he was off in G2 and G3, he still played well on the other end. Including G4 where Peja had a 21-point 1st half, then went mostly cold with the rest of the team for the 2nd half. Lewis wasn't hurt badly until the Spurs series where he hurt his foot, on top of the tendinitis, and missed 3 games. Also, he was playing hurt long before the playoffs started anyways with the tendinitis. Lewis averaged 39 mpg in R1 and started all 5 games.
Also to mention. That explosion from Peja (he was the main part) and Bibby vs. T'Wolves G3 late in the third or starting in the 4th qtr to send it into OT. Peja had 22 points from that, having just 7 before the comeback. As we were just flat up till then, down by 14 or 15 +. Though we lost because of KG, it still happened and was great to see.
Hassell played him well overall in 3 games in that series though.
As Rick said, and we all saw he played well (coming off a second injury, and the trade happened) and like the old Peja in the last month tops, and into the playoffs. Yes he hurt his groin at Lakers in April (where he scored 14 points in the 1st qtr, looking to have a high 30-40 point night, then out of nowhere strained his groin), but he still didn't have a bad or medicore playoff series. Even when he was off in G2 and G3, he still played well on the other end. Including G4 where Peja had a 21-point 1st half, then went mostly cold with the rest of the team for the 2nd half. Lewis wasn't hurt badly until the Spurs series where he hurt his foot, on top of the tendinitis, and missed 3 games. Also, he was playing hurt long before the playoffs started anyways with the tendinitis. Lewis averaged 39 mpg in R1 and started all 5 games.
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As much as we would like our wishes to come true and our memories to be all warm and fuzzy, the bare truth is that Peja has been a disappointment much more often than he has been a positive influence in the playoffs.
People who want to continue to put him up on this "impact player" pedestal are, I fear, going to just be disappointed again.
Peja is arguably the best pure shooter around. He is not, and will most likely never be, the best player or even the best SF. That's just the truth of the matter.
He probably has the ability. And that's what makes it so sad. He simply doesn't have the drive, the desire, the HUNGER to push himself to the limit, to see just how much he is truly capable of doing. And that's a shame ... for him, for us and for the game of basketball.
People who want to continue to put him up on this "impact player" pedestal are, I fear, going to just be disappointed again.
Peja is arguably the best pure shooter around. He is not, and will most likely never be, the best player or even the best SF. That's just the truth of the matter.
He probably has the ability. And that's what makes it so sad. He simply doesn't have the drive, the desire, the HUNGER to push himself to the limit, to see just how much he is truly capable of doing. And that's a shame ... for him, for us and for the game of basketball.
Last *two* seasons? Do you really want to use last season in an argument about Stojakovic's greatness? Do you?
I'll grant you the defense against Nowitzki in 2004, but I think that you're making more of it than it is, and I'm going to have to see more consistency out of him (and that doesn't include "locking up" a hobbled Rashard Lewis) before I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
And I stand by my impact comment: if Stojakovic *finally* goes for 30+ in a "win or go home" situation, and we lost, then he didn't make enough of an impact. And that's what I'm saying: Stojakovic has never made an impact in a critical game. Yeah, give him the ball, and he may put up pretty offensive numbers, but I've never seen him carry us to a win in a game where we needed to clinch a playoff berth. I've never seen him carry us to a win in a game where we were facing elimination. Going for 38 in a loss doesn't impress me.
I'll grant you the defense against Nowitzki in 2004, but I think that you're making more of it than it is, and I'm going to have to see more consistency out of him (and that doesn't include "locking up" a hobbled Rashard Lewis) before I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
And I stand by my impact comment: if Stojakovic *finally* goes for 30+ in a "win or go home" situation, and we lost, then he didn't make enough of an impact. And that's what I'm saying: Stojakovic has never made an impact in a critical game. Yeah, give him the ball, and he may put up pretty offensive numbers, but I've never seen him carry us to a win in a game where we needed to clinch a playoff berth. I've never seen him carry us to a win in a game where we were facing elimination. Going for 38 in a loss doesn't impress me.
Obviously for some reasons you have problem with glen rice (your problem with peja is well known and it appears that you already know that peja is completely out of shape at first day of training camp) who was type player that I liked along with starks, dan majerle, mark price, rex chapman, drazen petrovic, tony kukoc (who had similar role in chi like manu in sas but with more skills and less faking) and other exceptional shooters …..why they have (had) "empty career with some scoring numbers"?
You forgot about Nash and Finley in that series as well (all seperate).
Lewis did have a bit of a disadvantage becuase of his tendinitis, but he had that long before the playoffs began, and averaged 39 MPG in R1. He wasn't actually hobbled until the Spurs series, which really hurt Seattle. When Peja wasn't hurt or coming off his two injuries (before the mild groin strain, and the 2nd injury from the Boston game in Feb. being more difficult in that total period (off-time, and in the bit of time when he came off of it), because of chemistry for a bit when he came back on 3/1 (I was at the game) ), he was consistent. I think it was too late for the Kings in general in the playoffs, just because of everything that happened, and the unexpected flatness of Bibby in three games (G4 was average, but not like G1 and G2). Those Kings, I really feel gave it their all in G5. Had there still been games of any kind, I think Peja would of carried on well.
Lewis did have a bit of a disadvantage becuase of his tendinitis, but he had that long before the playoffs began, and averaged 39 MPG in R1. He wasn't actually hobbled until the Spurs series, which really hurt Seattle. When Peja wasn't hurt or coming off his two injuries (before the mild groin strain, and the 2nd injury from the Boston game in Feb. being more difficult in that total period (off-time, and in the bit of time when he came off of it), because of chemistry for a bit when he came back on 3/1 (I was at the game) ), he was consistent. I think it was too late for the Kings in general in the playoffs, just because of everything that happened, and the unexpected flatness of Bibby in three games (G4 was average, but not like G1 and G2). Those Kings, I really feel gave it their all in G5. Had there still been games of any kind, I think Peja would of carried on well.
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That you see I agree with. But the reason I mentioned your quote in my post is this part of the sentence "Not one... And the next time that Stojakovic makes an impact in a relevant game will be the first". See with that part of the sentence you point that he has not done that. He has made an impact in games he played against Dallas you even admit. The problem I had is with that statement you seem to overstate( carry it to the extreme in this case) your position by making this "impact comment" which by your own omission is not correct in its logic.
Kings113 said:
Also to mention. That explosion from Peja (he was the main part) and Bibby vs. T'Wolves G3 late in the third or starting in the 4th qtr to send it into OT. Peja had 22 points from that, having just 7 before the comeback. As we were just flat up till then, down by 14 or 15 +. Though we lost because of KG, it still happened and was great to see.
However, the Kings didn't win that game.
In fact, one could argue that turning a game around, erasing a big defecit, getting the momentum on your side all in the closing minutes of the 4th, forcing OT and then losing is a pretty damn big choke job.
Sorry, but if you want to convince me of Peja's killer instinct, you'll have to do better than that game they almost won that time.
EDIT: Also, wasn't game 3 the one where Peja had the opportunity for the last shot and chose to flail about like a monkey on a string looking for a foul instead of putting the damn ball in the basket, or was that a different game? I've forgotten.
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What's really relevant and pretty sad, IMHO, is that you can point to less than a handful of important games where Peja has made a significant difference.
If people would quit trying to make him into something he isn't, perhaps we'd all be able to accept him for what he is... instead of always arguing about what he is not.
If people would quit trying to make him into something he isn't, perhaps we'd all be able to accept him for what he is... instead of always arguing about what he is not.
You sir sound like you may have a shooting fetish. I however like winners. But if I was going to have a shooting fetish, I would at least put the guys up on a pedastal who deserve it -- guys like Reggie Miller or Larry Bird who led their teams and became legends in the biggest moments and biggest games. But shooting is a trait that tracks very poorly, if at all, with winning and mattering in the NBA. You have to be more or you're just a roleplayer.
Glen Rice never mattered. And he is the closest comparison to Peja out of the recent past. That's why his name gets invoked. One major difference was that Rice did not have the advantage of getting to play 2nd or 3rd fiddle for ultra talented teams making strong playoff pushes. He spent the majority of his career completely exposed as a #1 guy who was only good enough to get you 40-45 wins and sneak you into the first round of the playoffs at best. He put up shooting numbers, but his teams never won anything. The book on him was great shooter, but didn't do anthing else to really help you. By the time he finally did land on a significant team, he was as much distraction as help, an his coach's (PJ's) infamous assessment of him at the time was something like "he only ever did the one thing, and he doesn't even do that that well anymore". One of legendary coach Pat Riley's first major moves in turning around the Heat was to get rid of Glen Rice in exchange for a fiery competitor in Alonzo Mourning. Rice later lasted 1 year with legendary coach Phil Jackson before he too exiled him. Maybe winners know winners when they see them. And then Glen spent the rest of his career becoming more and more worthless until he was a sad shell of himself wasting away on the bench. A significant player during his time. But one who didn't matter and who will be largely forgotten. Nice scoring numbers and a few time All-Star in his better years (and perhaps not coincidentally those peak years came with Vlade on his team). But didn't do nearly enough to ever belong in the same breath with the true stars of his era.
The rest of your list again seems to be stuck on one narrow and fairly minor basketball trait in its grouping of players. Just because a guy is able to shoot doesn't mean he has to be soft or one-dimensional:
1) Starks had cahones the size of Texas, played with fire and passion, and got the most out of his questionable talent. He ultimately failed, but he made as big a splash as a tweener sized knucklehead was ever likely to and was a major part of some epic battles against some of the best of all time. He cared. He left it on the floor. That's apples and oranges.
2) Majerle was absolutely as tough as nails, a tremendous defensive player who threw his muscular body around with reckless abandon. Calling him a shooter misses his character entirely. Again apples and oranges.
3) Mark Price might be the closest thing, but he really had more in common with Bibby than Peja. Shooting PG who nonetheless played the setup man for a very good team. Again failed to win the big ones, which is something true of most teams and players that rely on jumpshots.
4) Rex Chapman was a major disappointment and journeyman until he ressurected himself for that brief smallball run under Ainge in Phoenix, There he might have given meaning to an otherwise pointless career by playing with fire and hitting big clutch dramatic shots.
5) Drazen could be something like Peja but the bulk of his accomplishments were overseas, so who knows. Over here he was a very good player but never won anything as a major piece and then ran out of time. But had arrogance and guts with the ball in his hands, and would back down from nothing and nobody. As a talent who knows. But as a competitor, would have eaten Peja for lunch.
6) Kukoc was far more than a shooter -- a renaissance unselfish do it all player. Ultimately he would not have mattered either and never carried a team anywhere. But his presence on those great Bulls teams as a 4th gun behind Jordan/Pippen/Rodman obivously gives his career weight it would not have had as a journeyman do it all Hedo type player. In any case, neither similar to Peja in game nor in accomplshments. Only in size and geographic origin I guess.
P.S. I never said that Peja would come into camp out of shape. To the contrary, I believe he normally comes into camp in good shape, although reports this summer could throw a little doubt on that this time I suspose. Nonetheless, the issue isn't what shape he's in, but whether he's worked on hsi game. Which he hasn't of course. Pretty much ever. Which is why he will show up in camp prety much exactly the same player he was last year, the year before and 5 years ago. And we all know this, whether we choose to admit it or not. Peja is a talent. But not a champion. Not a winner. Not somebody who "brings basketball home with him". He has his game, plays his game, earns loads of cash, goes home to a beautiful wife, and ultimately can't be bothered to get too upset about striving to be mroe. He lost any hunger he had long ago.
Glen Rice never mattered. And he is the closest comparison to Peja out of the recent past. That's why his name gets invoked. One major difference was that Rice did not have the advantage of getting to play 2nd or 3rd fiddle for ultra talented teams making strong playoff pushes. He spent the majority of his career completely exposed as a #1 guy who was only good enough to get you 40-45 wins and sneak you into the first round of the playoffs at best. He put up shooting numbers, but his teams never won anything. The book on him was great shooter, but didn't do anthing else to really help you. By the time he finally did land on a significant team, he was as much distraction as help, an his coach's (PJ's) infamous assessment of him at the time was something like "he only ever did the one thing, and he doesn't even do that that well anymore". One of legendary coach Pat Riley's first major moves in turning around the Heat was to get rid of Glen Rice in exchange for a fiery competitor in Alonzo Mourning. Rice later lasted 1 year with legendary coach Phil Jackson before he too exiled him. Maybe winners know winners when they see them. And then Glen spent the rest of his career becoming more and more worthless until he was a sad shell of himself wasting away on the bench. A significant player during his time. But one who didn't matter and who will be largely forgotten. Nice scoring numbers and a few time All-Star in his better years (and perhaps not coincidentally those peak years came with Vlade on his team). But didn't do nearly enough to ever belong in the same breath with the true stars of his era.
The rest of your list again seems to be stuck on one narrow and fairly minor basketball trait in its grouping of players. Just because a guy is able to shoot doesn't mean he has to be soft or one-dimensional:
1) Starks had cahones the size of Texas, played with fire and passion, and got the most out of his questionable talent. He ultimately failed, but he made as big a splash as a tweener sized knucklehead was ever likely to and was a major part of some epic battles against some of the best of all time. He cared. He left it on the floor. That's apples and oranges.
2) Majerle was absolutely as tough as nails, a tremendous defensive player who threw his muscular body around with reckless abandon. Calling him a shooter misses his character entirely. Again apples and oranges.
3) Mark Price might be the closest thing, but he really had more in common with Bibby than Peja. Shooting PG who nonetheless played the setup man for a very good team. Again failed to win the big ones, which is something true of most teams and players that rely on jumpshots.
4) Rex Chapman was a major disappointment and journeyman until he ressurected himself for that brief smallball run under Ainge in Phoenix, There he might have given meaning to an otherwise pointless career by playing with fire and hitting big clutch dramatic shots.
5) Drazen could be something like Peja but the bulk of his accomplishments were overseas, so who knows. Over here he was a very good player but never won anything as a major piece and then ran out of time. But had arrogance and guts with the ball in his hands, and would back down from nothing and nobody. As a talent who knows. But as a competitor, would have eaten Peja for lunch.
6) Kukoc was far more than a shooter -- a renaissance unselfish do it all player. Ultimately he would not have mattered either and never carried a team anywhere. But his presence on those great Bulls teams as a 4th gun behind Jordan/Pippen/Rodman obivously gives his career weight it would not have had as a journeyman do it all Hedo type player. In any case, neither similar to Peja in game nor in accomplshments. Only in size and geographic origin I guess.
P.S. I never said that Peja would come into camp out of shape. To the contrary, I believe he normally comes into camp in good shape, although reports this summer could throw a little doubt on that this time I suspose. Nonetheless, the issue isn't what shape he's in, but whether he's worked on hsi game. Which he hasn't of course. Pretty much ever. Which is why he will show up in camp prety much exactly the same player he was last year, the year before and 5 years ago. And we all know this, whether we choose to admit it or not. Peja is a talent. But not a champion. Not a winner. Not somebody who "brings basketball home with him". He has his game, plays his game, earns loads of cash, goes home to a beautiful wife, and ultimately can't be bothered to get too upset about striving to be mroe. He lost any hunger he had long ago.
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For me, everyone gets a clean slate this year. We are a new team, full of promise.
Since Peja is on our team, as far as I am concerned, he is the best at what he does. I know that I am being 100% biased and blind to past playoffs. I am choosing to be so. As of this point, we are unproven as a unit. He has disappointed in the past, but I have decided to overlook that this year and base my new opinion of him on this year's performance. I am doing that with all of them from Bibby's leadership, to Brad's health, to Peja's playoff performance. New season, new team, new expectations.
I think that Peja is capable of GREAT things. We have seen it. Now he has to prove that he can do it when it counts the most. I am once again giving him the benefit of the doubt. I KNOW that there is a BIG possibility that I will be let down again, but there is just as much of a chance that he will live up to what I believe he can do.
If there was ever a year for fresh starts, it is this one!
Since Peja is on our team, as far as I am concerned, he is the best at what he does. I know that I am being 100% biased and blind to past playoffs. I am choosing to be so. As of this point, we are unproven as a unit. He has disappointed in the past, but I have decided to overlook that this year and base my new opinion of him on this year's performance. I am doing that with all of them from Bibby's leadership, to Brad's health, to Peja's playoff performance. New season, new team, new expectations.
I think that Peja is capable of GREAT things. We have seen it. Now he has to prove that he can do it when it counts the most. I am once again giving him the benefit of the doubt. I KNOW that there is a BIG possibility that I will be let down again, but there is just as much of a chance that he will live up to what I believe he can do.
If there was ever a year for fresh starts, it is this one!
Peja couldn't stop KG, no one could (the two or three baskets, and the one where he looked at the clock at the other end as he was spinning to score, which won the game). Yes it was that game, but I think he said that wasn't the original plan. He got double-teamed or mobbed anyways, making it a tough shot in all. I think Webber or Brad had the ball originally, but passed it off, not sure on that though.
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Just a few observation on players I followed since they were in kindergarten.
1. Drazen was more talented scorer, he created for himself and when he wanted he created for others. Not a clutch shooter and not a defender. He never won antything in NBA because he spent two years on the banch under Adelman. Hi died at the age of 29 or something like that. However he won enough in Europe to be recognized as a great player. He was also ******* I hated as a person.
2. Kukoc was third gun (talking about offense) and he and Pippen led Jordan-less Bulls to the PO. At the moment he finally had a chance to lead a team he was too old. However he was ultimate team player similar to Vlade in that regard. He also won enough in Europe to be recognized as one of the best Euro players ever. For me it is no contest, my vote goes to Kukoc over Peja.
1. Drazen was more talented scorer, he created for himself and when he wanted he created for others. Not a clutch shooter and not a defender. He never won antything in NBA because he spent two years on the banch under Adelman. Hi died at the age of 29 or something like that. However he won enough in Europe to be recognized as a great player. He was also ******* I hated as a person.
2. Kukoc was third gun (talking about offense) and he and Pippen led Jordan-less Bulls to the PO. At the moment he finally had a chance to lead a team he was too old. However he was ultimate team player similar to Vlade in that regard. He also won enough in Europe to be recognized as one of the best Euro players ever. For me it is no contest, my vote goes to Kukoc over Peja.
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Wow, crazy thread.
My pointless thoughts:
I think basically everyone who is arguing Peja vs. Manu is correct, if that's possible. Brick, you're right that Manu and Peja put up similar stats, only Manu does his with hustle and grit and defense and the little things. He stretches the defense by getting to the basket whereas Peja stretches the defense with his shooting. However, I still think AriesMar27 is right that when Manu is off he's REALLY off, even moreso than Peja's disappearing acts. The Spurs had the chance to put away the Pistons in the Finals, only Manu didn't get the memo and scored all of 7 and 12 points in the next two games and he wasn't doing the little things either. Granted, up until that point he'd spent the entire playoffs utterly destroying the Western Conference and was entitled to an off night or two, but it was pretty bad.
I also think some people around these parts are being pretty harsh on Peja. And I really hate to make the Bibby comparison, but just because Bibby had some really big moments against the Lakers I think people now will never be convinced that he's not a playoff performer. But he really hasn't delivered consistently since then. Meanwhile, Peja isn't quite as bad as you remember him. Sure, Peja needs to step up, but he has played well in big games in less glamorous fashion, like his big Dallas blocks and solid series against the Sonics. I'm not saying that Peja hasn't been disappointing or that he needs to step it up etc. etc. But don't throw him under the bus.
My pointless thoughts:
I think basically everyone who is arguing Peja vs. Manu is correct, if that's possible. Brick, you're right that Manu and Peja put up similar stats, only Manu does his with hustle and grit and defense and the little things. He stretches the defense by getting to the basket whereas Peja stretches the defense with his shooting. However, I still think AriesMar27 is right that when Manu is off he's REALLY off, even moreso than Peja's disappearing acts. The Spurs had the chance to put away the Pistons in the Finals, only Manu didn't get the memo and scored all of 7 and 12 points in the next two games and he wasn't doing the little things either. Granted, up until that point he'd spent the entire playoffs utterly destroying the Western Conference and was entitled to an off night or two, but it was pretty bad.
I also think some people around these parts are being pretty harsh on Peja. And I really hate to make the Bibby comparison, but just because Bibby had some really big moments against the Lakers I think people now will never be convinced that he's not a playoff performer. But he really hasn't delivered consistently since then. Meanwhile, Peja isn't quite as bad as you remember him. Sure, Peja needs to step up, but he has played well in big games in less glamorous fashion, like his big Dallas blocks and solid series against the Sonics. I'm not saying that Peja hasn't been disappointing or that he needs to step it up etc. etc. But don't throw him under the bus.
You know, I'm sure that, in your opinion, I'm being too hard on the guy... that said, in my personal opinion, the guy who put up 20/10/2/2/1 did more to "lead" the team than the guy who put up 23/7/0/1/0.
And I still can't think of a game where Stojakovic came through when the Kings were facing elimination.
And I still can't think of a game where Stojakovic came through when the Kings were facing elimination.
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I don't know, 38 points vs. the Sonics on 14-25 shooting in an elimination game was pretty awesome.... 17 and 9 vs. the Mavs in 2003 (from the PF slot) wasn't so bad either.
He was terrible when the Kings were eliminated by the Wolves, but hey, the Kings scored only scored 80 points. Everyone was bad.
He was terrible when the Kings were eliminated by the Wolves, but hey, the Kings scored only scored 80 points. Everyone was bad.
And maybe, just maybe, if Peja had been better and SPARKED the team a little, they would have fed off his energy and scored more than 80.
I'm not throwing Peja under the bus but I'm not going to count on his carrying the team or saving the day. It's those expectations that led to disappointment and heartache.
Pretty harsh on Peja? If so, it's because he's CAPABLE of much, much more than he's actually given. That, in a nutshell, is what is so disappointing year after year.
I don't know about anyone else, but my main complaint is he talks the talk but he doesn't walk the walk. He knows all the right things to say, but they come from his head and not his heart. He's just not hungry; he views the game as simply a job. It's not in his blood.
Is that his fault? Of course not. It's just something I have finally realized.
The hungry guy, the one who lives and breathes basketball both during the season and all year around, the one who is continually working to improve his game - that's the Peja I would like to see. Unfortunately, that Peja doesn't exist, except maybe in the fantasies of frustrated Kings fans. And that is ALWAYS going to be the contention.
He could have been much more had he simply had the hunger.
I'm not throwing Peja under the bus but I'm not going to count on his carrying the team or saving the day. It's those expectations that led to disappointment and heartache.
Pretty harsh on Peja? If so, it's because he's CAPABLE of much, much more than he's actually given. That, in a nutshell, is what is so disappointing year after year.
I don't know about anyone else, but my main complaint is he talks the talk but he doesn't walk the walk. He knows all the right things to say, but they come from his head and not his heart. He's just not hungry; he views the game as simply a job. It's not in his blood.
Is that his fault? Of course not. It's just something I have finally realized.
The hungry guy, the one who lives and breathes basketball both during the season and all year around, the one who is continually working to improve his game - that's the Peja I would like to see. Unfortunately, that Peja doesn't exist, except maybe in the fantasies of frustrated Kings fans. And that is ALWAYS going to be the contention.
He could have been much more had he simply had the hunger.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough.... I put those players together as shooters (although they have other qualities such thunder dan or kukoc) in order to point out that they had good few season but (to me) they did not have empty career...they did what they did and at that point it was their max....is that mean that you have empty career because you were not bird or reggie?.....about peja: I like him but at same time I'm not crazy about him… I know his limitations and his mental structure is very annoying.....why I always respond to you when you jump on peja? Because it is annoying too and one antagonism raises another but in opposite direction as natural reaction….bottom line is the guy is still kings’ player and all we can do is support him
wHAT ARE YOU SMOKING? Sure Kukoc was a good player, but we're talking about a (3) time All-Star player here. Kukoc was a great team NBA (role) player and great overall player in europe, but numbers that Peja puts up are way over Tony's. And all that on a team like Kings, were selfishness does not count.
Peja is a team player, with not much athletic abilities, and will never be great. Doesn't have that kind of talent at all, he has overacchieved as of now. His knee was crushed so bad, back in Greece, it's wonder he can jump at all! You guys just expect to much of Peja, and then you get dissapointed in the end. He's never going to have a season like 2003/04 again, never. Well, I hope he does, but chances are slimm!
Peja is a team player, with not much athletic abilities, and will never be great. Doesn't have that kind of talent at all, he has overacchieved as of now. His knee was crushed so bad, back in Greece, it's wonder he can jump at all! You guys just expect to much of Peja, and then you get dissapointed in the end. He's never going to have a season like 2003/04 again, never. Well, I hope he does, but chances are slimm!
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