What's your pick today? (June 11, 2018)

Who do you want at the #2?


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This is true. It is also true that Bamba was blocked by the rim multiple times this season when trying to go straight up for a dunk.

My takeaway from that us that Mo isn't vertically explosive from a standstill but is pretty explosive with a bit of momentum.

JJJ isn't vertically explosive from a standstill or on the run.
Lol........ Sure.......... The standards here are consistenly absurd......There's such a severe lack of perspective..... I dare you to find clips which illustrate your theories, i bet you cant and wont.

Also just the nature people hold Mo Bamba's feet to the fire here is shameful. You act like all these players are on equal timelines. It's common knowledge that true C's take the longest to develop, and achieve maximum coordination, but that wisdom isnt applied to Mo, not here.

If Mo's the pick 95% of this forum will eat crow for years over their panicked predraft takes.

Mo Bamba and JJJ arent vertically explosive......... if DX's database was still public id demonstratejust how silly, and ignorant of historical data these claims are. Thesee players patrol the upper atmosphere.
 
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If the rim was at 12 feet, that might mean something.
It means he's just a few inches away from touching the top of a backboard, which is a legendary feat never captured on film

Marvin Bagley's grandfather jumpin joe caldwell is one of the players who people claimed could touch the top, i dont believe any of these claims tho.
 
Go to scorer in Europe is not the same as the go to scorer in the NBA. That is what many of my fellow Europeans don’t seem to get. It is a much higher level of competition. Navarro was a big a go to scorer in Europe as there has been in recent times but in the NBA he was a good solid, scoring 6th man for Memphis. Not comparing Dončić to Navarro but the principle is the same.

I love Dončić’a game but for where the team is now, I am not sure he is exactly what the team needs at this point in time. If we already had a franchise guy on our team, Dončić is my pick all day every day and twice on Sundays.

Kings don’t really have a tendency of getting big name FAs
I would add if we didn’t have Bogdan also. Bogdan is also an excellant secondary ball handler but seems more athletic and more able to defend, he also appears to be a better shooter. But even Bogdan doesn’t finish with a high percentage because he lacks some explosion.
 
I would add if we didn’t have Bogdan also. Bogdan is also an excellant secondary ball handler but seems more athletic and more able to defend, he also appears to be a better shooter. But even Bogdan doesn’t finish with a high percentage because he lacks some explosion.
Having both Bogdan and Luka would be the least of my worries. They are both fine as creators and ball handlers or playing off the ball. I am not worried about duplication of skills with Luka. I am worried about how high his ceiling is. He will be a very very good NBA player that could start for any team. This team is in a desperate need of franchise level player and #2 pick is the best chance this team will get at finding one in a long time. Must make it count.
 
Based on this poll I think 95% of fans are going to be disappointed when we draft Marvin Bagley. Bagley is going to be the pick. I think fans have been thinking about this wrong. I have been guilty of this to a degree, in a different way, though. I've had Bagley pegged at #2 the whole time. This is what I think I missed and fans missed. I had an epiphany, or maybe just going down another rabbit hole between now and June 21. :p

The presumption is if the Suns don't take Ayton we will take him. I don't think that is the safest presumption. I'd take him but that is besides the point. The Boogie Experience left scars. The GM does not want a repeat of that ordeal. The Kings hitched their wagon to a guy who said he was team-first then acted in opposite manner. Avoiding a repeat of this type of prima donna necessitates meeting these guys looking them in the eye and knowing they can be part of the family. You have to suss them out, know they will fit culture, put team and effort over touches. Ayton does not want to come to town? Fine, you are off the list. Have a nice career somewhere else.

Here's where I have adjusted my thought process by trying to get into the mind of the decision makers. The Kings are considering Luka and Porter in the unlikely event the Suns take Bagley. The Kings are formulating a Plan B in the event that Plan A goes up in smoke. Of course ultimately we don't need to a Plan B. Plan A will be activated June 21. The Suns are taking Ayton. And we are taking Bagley. Book it:
  • Bagley - combo forward
  • Porter - combo forward
  • Luka - combo forward
This is a slightly new way to look at these players. Who says Bagley is a center? He weighs 220 lbs. He is light on his feet. He has handles. He has a Euro Step. He can rebound and go. He has nice shot mechanics. He has a jab step, spin move and lethal first step. He can hang as a defender on the perimeter more than the paint to whom he will give up 20-30 pounds. It is a false premise to label this guy a center then discount him because his defensive ability as a center is dubious. This is where fans and draft previews are wrong. By contrast I think Giles is more suited to being a banger in the paint. He's stronger, longer and I think 20-30 pounds heavier.

If you view Bagley correctly as a combo forward with more of a perimeter game than displayed at Duke, you see how he will fit perfectly with our three man core of Fox, Buddy and Boggy. When I think of combo forwards, Tobias Harris, Jeff Green, Danillo Gallinari and Dirk Nowitski come to mind. I am not saying Bagley has their game, or even that their talents are similar. I am talking about their physical profile and mobility about the floor. If you mischaracterize Bagley with guys like KAT and Marc Gasol, it is easy to sour on him as a prospect.

There are a few other points I want to touch on. The bottom line is I now view Luka and Porter as contingents in the event Bagley goes #1, since Ayton is not a viable proposition, despite his immense talent. Ultimately indulging in these scenarios is irrelevant since Ayton will go #1 and we will secure our top target. I do not have confidence in the primary decision maker. He's a joke. But we have enough guys around him I respect like Brandon Williams and Elston Turner and Bobby Jackson. There is enough smart basketball minds in the room to do the smart thing. This is where I was previously wavering but come to my sense. It doesn't take a genius to get this right. The smart move is Bagley and always has been. The team will make the smart move. Set aside the hype and noise, and this is easy to see. :cool:
 
Based on this poll I think 95% of fans are going to be disappointed when we draft Marvin Bagley. Bagley is going to be the pick. I think fans have been thinking about this wrong. I have been guilty of this to a degree, in a different way, though. I've had Bagley pegged at #2 the whole time. This is what I think I missed and fans missed. I had an epiphany, or maybe just going down another rabbit hole between now and June 21. :p

The presumption is if the Suns don't take Ayton we will take him is so valuable. I don't think that is the safest presumption. I'd take him but that is besides the point. The Boogie Experience left scars. The GM does not want a repeat of that ordeal. The Kings hitched their wagon to a guy who said he was team-first then acted in opposite manner. Avoiding a repeat of this type of prima donna necessitates meeting these guys looking them in the eye and knowing they can be part of the family. You have to suss them out, know they will fit culture, put team and effort over touches. Ayton does not want to come to town? Fine, you are off the list. Have a nice career somewhere else.

Here's where I have adjusted my thought process by trying to get into the mind of the decision makers. The Kings are considering Luka and Porter in the unlikely event the Suns take Bagley. The Kings are formulating a Plan B in the event that Plan A goes up in smoke. Of course ultimately we don't need to a Plan B. Plan A will be activated June 21. The Suns are taking Ayton. And we are taking Bagley. Book it:
  • Bagley - combo forward
  • Porter - combo forward
  • Luka - combo forward
This is a slightly new way to look at these players. Who says Bagley is a center? He weighs 220 lbs. He is light on his feet. He has handles. He has a Euro Step. He can rebound and go. He has nice shot mechanics. He has a jab step, spin move and lethal first step. He can hang as a defender on the perimeter more than the paint to whom he will give up 20-30 pounds. It is a false premise to label this guy a center then discount him because his defensive ability as a center is dubious. This is where fans and draft previews are wrong. By contrast I think Giles is more suited to being a banger in the paint. He's stronger, longer and I think 20-30 pounds heavier.

If you view Bagley correctly as a combo forward with more of a perimeter game than displayed at Duke, you see how he will fit perfectly with our three man core of Fox, Buddy and Boggy. When I think of combo forwards, Tobias Harris, Jeff Green, Danillo Gallinari and Dirk Nowitski come to mind. I am not saying Bagley has their game, or even that their talents are similar. I am talking about their physical profile and mobility about the floor. If you mischaracterize Bagley with guys like KAT and Marc Gasol, it is easy to sour on him as a prospect.

There are a few other points I want to touch on. The bottom line is I now view Luka and Porter as contingents in the event Bagley goes #1, since Ayton is not a viable proposition, despite his immense talent. Ultimately indulging in these scenarios is irrelevant since Ayton will go #1 and we will secure our top target. I do not have confidence in the primary decision maker. He's a joke. But we have enough guys around him I respect like Brandon Williams and Elston Turner and Bobby Jackson. There is enough smart basketball minds in the room to do the smart thing. This is where I was previously wavering but come to my sense. It doesn't take a genius to get this right. The smart move is Bagley and always has been. The team will make the smart move. Set aside the hype and noise, and this is easy to see. :cool:
This is where the private workouts which can sluice out skills not exhibited due to coaches boxing players in. Each of these top prospects have a big IF attached to them and each very different be it medical, defense, handles and role etc....
In Bagleys case, IF he shows thatbhe can be more of a combo forward spending time at the 3 or 4 with the groundwork for the handles and shot to play away from the basket as well as the lateral quickness to gaurd 3s, then id be fully on board with him as our pick. I just dont want a traditional PF that offers no paint presence but needs to spot at the 5 for significant mins in order to get time on the court. BUT if he can play on the perimeter on both sides of court, oh boy sign me up then.
 
  • Bagley - combo forward (a PF - can play SF)
  • Porter - combo forward (a SF - can play stretch PF)
  • Luka - combo forward (a SF - can play Guard)
Ok do you think we could really play MB,WCS,Giles at the 3.4.5 ?
Sounds like a big traffic Jam by the rim
Sort of opposite of going Small?

If we can get a quality starting SF thru trading our surplus of Bigs or FA, then I would be OK with this plan
But Justin and Bagley at the 3? UGH
 
Based on this poll I think 95% of fans are going to be disappointed when we draft Marvin Bagley. Bagley is going to be the pick. I think fans have been thinking about this wrong. I have been guilty of this to a degree, in a different way, though. I've had Bagley pegged at #2 the whole time. This is what I think I missed and fans missed. I had an epiphany, or maybe just going down another rabbit hole between now and June 21. :p

The presumption is if the Suns don't take Ayton we will take him. I don't think that is the safest presumption. I'd take him but that is besides the point. The Boogie Experience left scars. The GM does not want a repeat of that ordeal. The Kings hitched their wagon to a guy who said he was team-first then acted in opposite manner. Avoiding a repeat of this type of prima donna necessitates meeting these guys looking them in the eye and knowing they can be part of the family. You have to suss them out, know they will fit culture, put team and effort over touches. Ayton does not want to come to town? Fine, you are off the list. Have a nice career somewhere else.

Here's where I have adjusted my thought process by trying to get into the mind of the decision makers. The Kings are considering Luka and Porter in the unlikely event the Suns take Bagley. The Kings are formulating a Plan B in the event that Plan A goes up in smoke. Of course ultimately we don't need to a Plan B. Plan A will be activated June 21. The Suns are taking Ayton. And we are taking Bagley. Book it:
  • Bagley - combo forward
  • Porter - combo forward
  • Luka - combo forward
This is a slightly new way to look at these players. Who says Bagley is a center? He weighs 220 lbs. He is light on his feet. He has handles. He has a Euro Step. He can rebound and go. He has nice shot mechanics. He has a jab step, spin move and lethal first step. He can hang as a defender on the perimeter more than the paint to whom he will give up 20-30 pounds. It is a false premise to label this guy a center then discount him because his defensive ability as a center is dubious. This is where fans and draft previews are wrong. By contrast I think Giles is more suited to being a banger in the paint. He's stronger, longer and I think 20-30 pounds heavier.

If you view Bagley correctly as a combo forward with more of a perimeter game than displayed at Duke, you see how he will fit perfectly with our three man core of Fox, Buddy and Boggy. When I think of combo forwards, Tobias Harris, Jeff Green, Danillo Gallinari and Dirk Nowitski come to mind. I am not saying Bagley has their game, or even that their talents are similar. I am talking about their physical profile and mobility about the floor. If you mischaracterize Bagley with guys like KAT and Marc Gasol, it is easy to sour on him as a prospect.

There are a few other points I want to touch on. The bottom line is I now view Luka and Porter as contingents in the event Bagley goes #1, since Ayton is not a viable proposition, despite his immense talent. Ultimately indulging in these scenarios is irrelevant since Ayton will go #1 and we will secure our top target. I do not have confidence in the primary decision maker. He's a joke. But we have enough guys around him I respect like Brandon Williams and Elston Turner and Bobby Jackson. There is enough smart basketball minds in the room to do the smart thing. This is where I was previously wavering but come to my sense. It doesn't take a genius to get this right. The smart move is Bagley and always has been. The team will make the smart move. Set aside the hype and noise, and this is easy to see. :cool:
I think the there's some fit appeal in terms of Doncic and even Porter Jr.

C Cauley-Stein
PF Giles (or Labissiere)
SF Doncic or Porter
SG Bogdanovic/Hield
PF Fox

Of course, that sort of view is dependent on (a) WCS actually being a part of the team beyond this season and (b) Giles either being healthy and delivering on his promise or Skal stepping up his game. That is a lot of ifs.

Instead I think what we could be looking at is:

C Cauley-Stein or Giles
PF Bagley
SF Jackson? Bogdanovic? Free Agent?
SG Bogdanovic/Hield
PG Fox

This scenario says Bagley is the PF of the future and all remaining bigs on the roster can fight for a starting spot at center or a backup PF role. It also leaves the Kings with a hole at SF. But it's the more realistic scenario in my mind. For anyone that likes Ayton, Jackson Jr, or Bamba it's essentially the same thing - those guys become the C of the future and WCS, Skal, and Giles battle for the starting PF spot or backup roles.

If everything were to break right I prefer the first scenario. It's a complete team with flexibility, young prospects at every position, and guys who are plus passers for their position other than maybe Fox, though he certainly can show growth there. But I just don't have faith in Willie becoming consistent and focusing on defense. I think he'll learn too late in his career that being a rim running, elite defensive big will get him paid much more than trying to be a "center with guard skills" on offense.

Are Bagley and Cauley-Stein/Giles an ideal fit in the modern NBA? Maybe, maybe not. I've come around on Bagley because I just don't think he can ever play the Capela role as the lone big for a team. He just isn't a rim protector or a great defender in space. But I think he can be a very good perimeter defender. A guy who can guard wings when teams go small and punish those guys on the offensive end.

But Giles (if healthy) and Bagley would give the Kings a very active, aggressive and skilled front court. It wouldn't necessarily be the return to ball and player movement of the early 2000's Kings teams that I think Doncic could bring, but I love the idea of a team feeding off the attitude that Giles (pre-injury) and Bagley always bring to the floor.

We're a little more than a week out but that's where I'm at. I like Bagley or Doncic at #2. I'd be okay with Ayton, Bamba, or Jackson. I hope it's not Porter.
 
  • Bagley - combo forward (a PF - can play SF)
  • Porter - combo forward (a SF - can play stretch PF)
  • Luka - combo forward (a SF - can play Guard)
Ok do you think we could really play MB,WCS,Giles at the 3.4.5 ?
Sounds like a big traffic Jam by the rim
Sort of opposite of going Small?

If we can get a quality starting SF thru trading our surplus of Bigs or FA, then I would be OK with this plan
But Justin and Bagley at the 3? UGH
Marvin Bagley is a PF with some untapped perimeter skills and who shows flashes of being an effective shooter from outside. He's not a SF. The Kings would still need a SF if they drafted him. But if he's the best player then you take him and figure it out later. WCS isn't good enough to worry about how the #2 fits with him and Giles still has to prove (a) that he can stay healthy and (b) he's still capable of being an impact player.

Doncic and Porter are better fits with the current roster but you can't draft for fit. The Kings need a franchise guy.

Lots of different opinions on which player(s) in this draft that might be.
 
Having both Bogdan and Luka would be the least of my worries. They are both fine as creators and ball handlers or playing off the ball. I am not worried about duplication of skills with Luka. I am worried about how high his ceiling is. He will be a very very good NBA player that could start for any team. This team is in a desperate need of franchise level player and #2 pick is the best chance this team will get at finding one in a long time. Must make it count.
I don’t disagree on the ceiling part. But I worry about the fit part also. I thought Luka was a better off the ball shooter than I have seen.
 
I guess I am saying since Zbo, KK will be gone 2019-20 season
Im ok with a 3 man Big rotation MB,WCS,Giles with Skal as 4th big

But without a big move to plug our SF hole, I just dont get it
Maybe Herzonja, Shump,temple as a short term fix and then use big
future cap at Feb deadline or next yr FA
 
  • Bagley - combo forward (a PF - can play SF)
  • Porter - combo forward (a SF - can play stretch PF)
  • Luka - combo forward (a SF - can play Guard)
Ok do you think we could really play MB,WCS,Giles at the 3.4.5 ?
Sounds like a big traffic Jam by the rim
Sort of opposite of going Small?

If we can get a quality starting SF thru trading our surplus of Bigs or FA, then I would be OK with this plan
But Justin and Bagley at the 3? UGH
I don't factor Willie into any plans going forward. I don't think he's very good. He hasn't proved himself to have any reliable skills besides being a lob dunker. See my post "Our Elite Center". I think Bagley and Giles can be good to great together with a three guard line-up (Buddy, Boggy Fox) or another stretch guy along the front line. Of course all of this is speculative until we see what Giles will look like next month in Summer League.
 

Capt. Factorial

Cantry Member
Staff member
Who says Bagley is a center? He weighs 220 lbs. He is light on his feet. He has handles. He has a Euro Step. He can rebound and go. He has nice shot mechanics. He has a jab step, spin move and lethal first step. He can hang as a defender on the perimeter more than the paint to whom he will give up 20-30 pounds. It is a false premise to label this guy a center then discount him because his defensive ability as a center is dubious.
...
If you mischaracterize Bagley with guys like KAT and Marc Gasol, it is easy to sour on him as a prospect.
This is correct.

I think Bagley is going to be very good (maybe a star), for the reasons you outline here. Of course, I think we're going to see probably 5 or 6 very good players (maybe stars) coming out of the top 6 players we're considering, so it feels to me more like a choice between the best flavor of star rather than trying to navigate the star/bust minefield.
 
I think we have a good backcourt which should be even better this coming season.
But when I look at the front court we had at the end of last season there’s a lot to wish for.
Everyone is high on Giles and I hope they are right but I have always wanted Bagley at #1 and if we get him at #2 I will be very happy.
 
If Kings want a franchise PF for years to come - Go Get Bagley (OK next poll I will switch my vote)
If Kings want a franchise SF for years to come - then get LUKA (Im ok with either)
If Kings get MPJ - Im gonna puke
 
I’m really close between Bagley and Doncic - but lean Doncic. However, if I knew we could pull off a trade like WCS for Otto Porter Jr. - I think I would lean Bagley. Those are the only guys that I have eyes for. Both players would give the team an identity - but in vastly different ways.
 
Marvin Bagley is a PF with some untapped perimeter skills and who shows flashes of being an effective shooter from outside. He's not a SF. The Kings would still need a SF if they drafted him. But if he's the best player then you take him and figure it out later. WCS isn't good enough to worry about how the #2 fits with him and Giles still has to prove (a) that he can stay healthy and (b) he's still capable of being an impact player.

Doncic and Porter are better fits with the current roster but you can't draft for fit. The Kings need a franchise guy.

Lots of different opinions on which player(s) in this draft that might be.
Thinking about Bagley a little more, I think the hopeful career arc for him is Blake Griffin. Amazing athlete who can control the glass, finish off the PnR, and has great feel around the rim offensively, good face-up game, not a good defender and a sketchy, but developing perimeter skill-set. There's a lot of parallels there, especially with the work ethic and hustle aspect on the court between the two.
 
Marvin Bagley is a PF with some untapped perimeter skills and who shows flashes of being an effective shooter from outside. He's not a SF. The Kings would still need a SF if they drafted him. But if he's the best player then you take him and figure it out later. WCS isn't good enough to worry about how the #2 fits with him and Giles still has to prove (a) that he can stay healthy and (b) he's still capable of being an impact player.

Doncic and Porter are better fits with the current roster but you can't draft for fit. The Kings need a franchise guy.

Lots of different opinions on which player(s) in this draft that might be.
How is "he's a combo forward" much different than "he's a PF with untapped perimeter skills"? I think you are splitting hairs a little there. I would also suggest Luka and Porter are not better fits on a team that lacks a primary scorer. I would contend the biggest need on the team is a primary scorer who can go get you 20+ PPG and command doubles. If he can spend time at the small forward and clean the glass all the better. Bagley is most likely to fill this role, as I think you would agree. Therefore he is the probable best fit. Doncic is the best positional fit but his skillset is not the best. Luka is a set-up man on a team that has two skilled set up men. This overlap is suboptimal. Luka would help us on the boards but Bagley will help more. Porter is an overhyped weak-minded bum with a jacked back on a cash grab before the fraud is exposed. So there's that too. :p
 
How is "he's a combo forward" much different than "he's a PF with untapped perimeter skills"? I think you are splitting hairs a little there. I would also suggest Luka and Porter are not better fits on a team that lacks a primary scorer. I would contend the biggest need on the team is a primary scorer who can go get you 20+ PPG and command doubles. If he can spend time at the small forward and clean the glass all the better. Bagley is most likely to fill this role, as I think you would agree. Therefore he is the probable best fit. Doncic is the best positional fit but his skillset is not the best. Luka is a set-up man on a team that has two skilled set up men. This overlap is suboptimal. Luka would help us on the boards but Bagley will help more. Porter is an overhyped weak-minded bum with a jacked back on a cash grab before the fraud is exposed. So there's that too. :p
Combo forward implies he can play SF. Bagley has shown no evidence that he's a wing player. He has plus handling and agility for a big and flashes the ability to step out and hit shots. That's a nice versatile skillset for a big. It's splitting hairs to some extent but personally I don't want to see Marvin Bagley at SF.

Doncic's best fit is likely with a speedy PG who he can trade off the playmaking role with (that's Fox if he can become more of a playmaker) and two shooters and a big who sets good picks and rolls hard to the hoop. It's a bonus if the big can also pick and pop. Cauley-Stein is a good finisher off the P&R but he's not a great pick setter and he's not good off the pick and pop. Bogdan is a good shooter at the 2 but is also a good secondary creator. Whether that's a benefit or hindrance to Doncic's fit I don't know. I'd lean towards the former. But for Luka to have an ideal fit the Kings need a stretch 4.

Bagley does offer more aggressive scoring that the Kings need. But I think he's a pure PF in a league that is trending towards eliminating that position in favor of a PG, three wings and a big. Bagley will likely still succeed because of his physical tools and effort though.

Honestly, neither is a perfect fit but could both bring needed tools to the table for the Kings. I still have Bagley 1A and Doncic 1B.

Ayton, Bamba, and Jackson would all be Cauley-Stein replacements. Ayton would give the Kings a low post scorer and Bamba and Jackson could potentially change the dynamic of the Kings defense but those two would also still leave the Kings in need of a primary scorer.

There are no quick fixes for the Kings right now. As I said, Doncic at SF with WCS and Giles breaking through and Fox making a leap is the closest scenario I can see. Otherwise the team is still more than one player away and you just need a foundational star.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Based on this poll I think 95% of fans are going to be disappointed when we draft Marvin Bagley. Bagley is going to be the pick. I think fans have been thinking about this wrong. I have been guilty of this to a degree, in a different way, though. I've had Bagley pegged at #2 the whole time. This is what I think I missed and fans missed. I had an epiphany, or maybe just going down another rabbit hole between now and June 21. :p

The presumption is if the Suns don't take Ayton we will take him. I don't think that is the safest presumption. I'd take him but that is besides the point. The Boogie Experience left scars. The GM does not want a repeat of that ordeal. The Kings hitched their wagon to a guy who said he was team-first then acted in opposite manner. Avoiding a repeat of this type of prima donna necessitates meeting these guys looking them in the eye and knowing they can be part of the family. You have to suss them out, know they will fit culture, put team and effort over touches. Ayton does not want to come to town? Fine, you are off the list. Have a nice career somewhere else.

Here's where I have adjusted my thought process by trying to get into the mind of the decision makers. The Kings are considering Luka and Porter in the unlikely event the Suns take Bagley. The Kings are formulating a Plan B in the event that Plan A goes up in smoke. Of course ultimately we don't need to a Plan B. Plan A will be activated June 21. The Suns are taking Ayton. And we are taking Bagley. Book it:
  • Bagley - combo forward
  • Porter - combo forward
  • Luka - combo forward
This is a slightly new way to look at these players. Who says Bagley is a center? He weighs 220 lbs. He is light on his feet. He has handles. He has a Euro Step. He can rebound and go. He has nice shot mechanics. He has a jab step, spin move and lethal first step. He can hang as a defender on the perimeter more than the paint to whom he will give up 20-30 pounds. It is a false premise to label this guy a center then discount him because his defensive ability as a center is dubious. This is where fans and draft previews are wrong. By contrast I think Giles is more suited to being a banger in the paint. He's stronger, longer and I think 20-30 pounds heavier.

If you view Bagley correctly as a combo forward with more of a perimeter game than displayed at Duke, you see how he will fit perfectly with our three man core of Fox, Buddy and Boggy. When I think of combo forwards, Tobias Harris, Jeff Green, Danillo Gallinari and Dirk Nowitski come to mind. I am not saying Bagley has their game, or even that their talents are similar. I am talking about their physical profile and mobility about the floor. If you mischaracterize Bagley with guys like KAT and Marc Gasol, it is easy to sour on him as a prospect.

There are a few other points I want to touch on. The bottom line is I now view Luka and Porter as contingents in the event Bagley goes #1, since Ayton is not a viable proposition, despite his immense talent. Ultimately indulging in these scenarios is irrelevant since Ayton will go #1 and we will secure our top target. I do not have confidence in the primary decision maker. He's a joke. But we have enough guys around him I respect like Brandon Williams and Elston Turner and Bobby Jackson. There is enough smart basketball minds in the room to do the smart thing. This is where I was previously wavering but come to my sense. It doesn't take a genius to get this right. The smart move is Bagley and always has been. The team will make the smart move. Set aside the hype and noise, and this is easy to see. :cool:
That's interesting. Bagley has been my #1 for the entire draft board (after flirting with Jackson Jr.). It may be because of Boogie (prima donna syndrome) or WCS (not a great motor/not enough love of the game/competitive fire syndrome), or a combination of both. I put Bagley #1 and not Ayton #3 because of his apparent apathy during games. I just don't believe in picking guys that don't have the fire in them, even if they are physically great. By the way, Napier, on the very first day after the Kings got the #2 was raising the possibility the Kings might pass on Ayton if Doncic was picked #1, kind a surprising talking point when Ayton was asssumed by many to be the #1 at the time.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Thinking about Bagley a little more, I think the hopeful career arc for him is Blake Griffin. Amazing athlete who can control the glass, finish off the PnR, and has great feel around the rim offensively, good face-up game, not a good defender and a sketchy, but developing perimeter skill-set. There's a lot of parallels there, especially with the work ethic and hustle aspect on the court between the two.
He actually has more fluidity than Griffin. Griffin is more of the explosive athlete, but somewhat herky-jerky. Bagley is very smooth.
 
Ayton, Bamba, and Jackson would all be Cauley-Stein replacements. Ayton would give the Kings a low post scorer and Bamba and Jackson could potentially change the dynamic of the Kings defense but those two would also still leave the Kings in need of a primary scorer.

There are no quick fixes for the Kings right now. As I said, Doncic at SF with WCS and Giles breaking through and Fox making a leap is the closest scenario I can see. Otherwise the team is still more than one player away and you just need a foundational star.
I am of the mindset we can pretty much wind down and wrap up talk of Ayton because we know who is drafting him. We can do the same with Bamba (to my disappointment) and Jaren Jackson until and unless there is news that these guys are coming for a visit. If these guy are not coming to town we are not taking them. We know they are making the rounds. So whether there is disinterest on their part or ours, if they are not coming, the writing is on the wall. To the next point, I don't think a front line of Luka, Willie and Giles would give us enough offense. I don't like it.
 
Combo forward implies he can play SF. Bagley has shown no evidence that he's a wing player. He has plus handling and agility for a big and flashes the ability to step out and hit shots. That's a nice versatile skillset for a big. It's splitting hairs to some extent but personally I don't want to see Marvin Bagley at SF.

Doncic's best fit is likely with a speedy PG who he can trade off the playmaking role with (that's Fox if he can become more of a playmaker) and two shooters and a big who sets good picks and rolls hard to the hoop. It's a bonus if the big can also pick and pop. Cauley-Stein is a good finisher off the P&R but he's not a great pick setter and he's not good off the pick and pop. Bogdan is a good shooter at the 2 but is also a good secondary creator. Whether that's a benefit or hindrance to Doncic's fit I don't know. I'd lean towards the former. But for Luka to have an ideal fit the Kings need a stretch 4.

Bagley does offer more aggressive scoring that the Kings need. But I think he's a pure PF in a league that is trending towards eliminating that position in favor of a PG, three wings and a big. Bagley will likely still succeed because of his physical tools and effort though.

Honestly, neither is a perfect fit but could both bring needed tools to the table for the Kings. I still have Bagley 1A and Doncic 1B.

Ayton, Bamba, and Jackson would all be Cauley-Stein replacements. Ayton would give the Kings a low post scorer and Bamba and Jackson could potentially change the dynamic of the Kings defense but those two would also still leave the Kings in need of a primary scorer.

There are no quick fixes for the Kings right now. As I said, Doncic at SF with WCS and Giles breaking through and Fox making a leap is the closest scenario I can see. Otherwise the team is still more than one player away and you just need a foundational star.
The PF position is disappearing because teams have figured out that there's really nobody in the NBA who guard out on the perimeter (for arguments sake, stick with like a Trevor ariza type), but then go punish the shorter/smaller guy back on the offensive end. I think that's the real appeal of a guy like Bagley who has the athleticism to basically defend like a wing player, but has the potential to punish those smaller players on the offensive end in the post, on the glass and with his face-up game. He's a "unicorn" in the sense that he lets us stay big without having to play to match-ups with other teams. He'll force teams to match-up with us. Gotta hope the jumper gets consistent, but 39% on 58 attempts last season is a good starting point. That shows the potential is at least there to develop as a shooter.

Guys like ZBO and Ryan Anderson are a good example. Good offensive players, but they just don't really have a place in the NBA anymore because they can't defend out on the perimeter and they're not close to being able to provide the rim protection needed at the 5.
 
The PF position is disappearing because teams have figured out that there's really nobody in the NBA who guard out on the perimeter (for arguments sake, stick with like a Trevor ariza type), but then go punish the shorter/smaller guy back on the offensive end. I think that's the real appeal of a guy like Bagley who has the athleticism to basically defend like a wing player, but has the potential to punish those smaller players on the offensive end in the post, on the glass and with his face-up game. He's a "unicorn" in the sense that he lets us stay big without having to play to match-ups with other teams. He'll force teams to match-up with us. Gotta hope the jumper gets consistent, but 39% on 58 attempts last season is a good starting point. That shows the potential is at least there to develop as a shooter.

Guys like ZBO and Ryan Anderson are a good example. Good offensive players, but they just don't really have a place in the NBA anymore because they can't defend out on the perimeter and they're not close to being able to provide the rim protection needed at the 5.
Yep. I agree completely.
 
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