What's Petrie Waiting For?

[NewMonkey]

I've been really disappointed with the Kings that I'm not even looking forward to the season. This is an awful team with no excitment. I see no hope in the future...well...maybe 5 years down the road I might see a little hope. However, who wants to wait that long?

I completely agree, and that's why I'm really happy I gave up my season tickets. However, I'm going to try to find the silver lining here. There are two main problems with the team right now: The overpaid, underachieving vets, and the separate fact that the team can't win with this roster.

In a worst case scenario, Petrie just takes the next two years off (like he's taken the last year off) and these guys are gone in 2009 and 2010, which is only a few years away. At that point, you've solved the first problem. In a better scenario, Petrie suddenly wakes up from his coma and actually does something about Kenny, Brad, Shareef, Artest, etc. Again, at the point, you've solved the first problem; underachieving veteran players.

The second problem - that the team can't win - isn't so bad if the players are exciting. The Hornets are a bad team but are fun to watch because Gerald Wallace is out there doing incredible things on the court. I don't mind watching a mediocre team as long as they're entertaining and getting better.

The way I look at it, the Kings really only have the first problem. I don't want to watch a 30 win team where Kenny Thomas and Brad Miller are starting. That's a team with no future. That's THIS Kings team. But I wouldn't mind watching a bad team where Justin Williams and Quincy Douby are playing 30 minutes a game. At least those guys have the potential to get better, and unlike the veteran stiffs, they're occasionally going to do something exciting.

The silver lining is that sometime in the next few years, we won't be stuck watching these old guys go through the motions. The Kings won't win right away, but at least we'll have something entertaining to watch.

 

[Warhawk]

What's Petrie waiting for?


[Holding the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch]
King Petrie: How does it... um... how does it work?
Sir Lancelot: I know not, my liege.
King Petrie: Consult the Book of Armaments.
Brother Maynard: Armaments, chapter two, verses nine through twenty-one.
Cleric: [reading] And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O Lord, bless this thy hand grenade, that with it thou mayst blow thine roster to tiny bits, in thy mercy." And the Lord did grin. And the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths, and carp and anchovies, and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit-bats and large chu...
Brother Maynard: Skip a bit, Brother...
Cleric: And the Lord spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy roster, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.
Brother Maynard: Amen.
All: Amen.
King Petrie: Right. One... two... five.
Galahad: Three, sir.
King Petrie: Three.

 

[Prophetess]

What's Petrie waiting for?


[Holding the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch]
King Petrie: How does it... um... how does it work?
Sir Lancelot: I know not, my liege.
King Petrie: Consult the Book of Armaments.
Brother Maynard: Armaments, chapter two, verses nine through twenty-one.
Cleric: [reading] And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O Lord, bless this thy hand grenade, that with it thou mayst blow thine roster to tiny bits, in thy mercy." And the Lord did grin. And the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths, and carp and anchovies, and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit-bats and large chu...
Brother Maynard: Skip a bit, Brother...
Cleric: And the Lord spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy roster, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.
Brother Maynard: Amen.
All: Amen.
King Petrie: Right. One... two... five.
Galahad: Three, sir.
King Petrie: Three.

You know, it's a toss up between that scene and the black night which is my favorite in that movie. Thanks for the grin.

 

[VF21]

The way I look at it, the Kings really only have the first problem. I don't want to watch a 30 win team where Kenny Thomas and Brad Miller are starting. That's a team with no future. That's THIS Kings team. But I wouldn't mind watching a bad team where Justin Williams and Quincy Douby are playing 30 minutes a game. At least those guys have the potential to get better, and unlike the veteran stiffs, they're occasionally going to do something exciting.

The silver lining is that sometime in the next few years, we won't be stuck watching these old guys go through the motions. The Kings won't win right away, but at least we'll have something entertaining to watch.

I don't think we'll see Kenny Thomas starting. That ship sailed last season. If anything, I'd suspect we'll see SAR starting or even Mikki Moore. I firmly believe the Kings are as disenchanted with KT as we the fans are. His market value isn't going to increase whether he plays or not. I would not be at all surprised to see a buyout of his contract.

 

[NewMonkey]

I don't think we'll see Kenny Thomas starting. That ship sailed last season. If anything, I'd suspect we'll see SAR starting or even Mikki Moore. I firmly believe the Kings are as disenchanted with KT as we the fans are. His market value isn't going to increase whether he plays or not. I would not be at all surprised to see a buyout of his contract.

Maybe you're right. I hope you're right. But Kenny is only part of the problem. I just want to see the old (and crazy) guys gone and the young guys play. That's enough for me. What's (not) happening now, is the worst-case scenario for me as a fan of the team. I just have to hope things change sooner rather than later.

 

[Superman]

I would not be at all surprised to see a buyout of his contract.

I would. What advantage is there to buying his contract out?

 

[sdballer]

Maybe you're right. I hope you're right. But Kenny is only part of the problem. I just want to see the old (and crazy) guys gone and the young guys play. That's enough for me. What's (not) happening now, is the worst-case scenario for me as a fan of the team. I just have to hope things change sooner rather than later.

The major problem I see with the concept of just playing the younger guys is that I don't think we have that much young talent, compared to the rest of the league. And one of the major ways we may be able to acquire more young talent is by trading our vets to teams that need those types of players for the young guys they don't. But our vet's trade values are down and would be best helped with playing time, thereby cutting into the young guys we have now. A viscous circle that may best be helped by making some non-Petrie trades where we bite the bullet on the talent swap. I don't know and apparently neither does Kings management but hopefully they'll figure it out.

 

[HndsmCelt]

I would. What advantage is there to buying his contract out?

Financially none, but at this point money is NOT the only concern. The team has a logjam at the 4-5 with some young tallent that needs min. KT is virtually untradeable so the only choices are play him, bench him or buy him out. All 3 options cost the same amount of money. If you play him your kids get no min... hurts the team. If you bench him he becomes an even biger horses *** in the locker room AND there is NO chance anyone will take him off our hands. The buy out gets him out of the clubhouse. I wojuld not expect a buy out before the season starts as I asume the team would prefer to trade him but lets be serious.

 

[VF21]

I would. What advantage is there to buying his contract out?

Several.

1. He is clearly not going to be a part of the future of the Sacramento Kings and, quite frankly, no one missed him last year after he was injured and didn't play.

2. He may actually not have any real trade value.

3. At some point you simply have to cut your losses. Buying him out would reduce, even a little, the amount he would get from us.

4. Other teams are doing it so it's not that far-fetched. Several players, who clearly don't fit the current needs of their team and whose contracts simply weren't movable, have been bought out.

I think there is a real possibility this just might happen.

 

[k1037]

Reggie and Musselman are not similar types of coaches. For one thing, Reggie is a former player. That alone gives him a different perspective on things. And if you admit to "basic philosophical differences," doesn't that make them different types of coaches? We'll know more once the season begins but I see an entirely different approach to things - and I'm excited about it.

Justin didn't get much playing time last season as he was only here at the end. Notice I said young bigs not NEW bigs. I personally think the combination of Hawes and Williams is also cause for some anticipation at least. With me, it's something else to be excited about and a reason for looking forward to the season to actually begin.

Do you think just because I'm looking forward to the season that I'm also not frustrated that things haven't been better? The two aren't mutually exclusive. My honest puzzlement comes when people can find NOTHING to be excited about. If that is, in fact, the situation I don't know if I could be a fan any longer - I'd probably just drift away and find something else to garner my interest.

BUT - I can always find something to give me a reason to look forward to the coming season. If nothing else, I love NBA basketball and I love the Sacramento Kings.

You never fail to disappoint as an ultimate homer/fangirl, V21. Just please remember that those of us who don't share that extreme, unwavering loyalty can't always make themselves be excited.

When I see the signing of Mikki Moore and the drafting of Hawes... I see that Justin Williams (the only thing to be excited about, really) will be getting even LESS playing time this season. I see that though the new coach is blabbing on and on about fast ball, his roster is still filled with one of the older line-ups in the league, and without a doubt the most athletically-challenged. You can say "run and gun" all ya want, but when you go out there with Hawes, Miller, Rahim, etc... heh, good luck.

 

[Warhawk]

Financially none, but at this point money is NOT the only concern. The team has a logjam at the 4-5 with some young tallent that needs min. KT is virtually untradeable so the only choices are play him, bench him or buy him out. All 3 options cost the same amount of money. If you play him your kids get no min... hurts the team. If you bench him he becomes an even biger horses *** in the locker room AND there is NO chance anyone will take him off our hands. The buy out gets him out of the clubhouse. I wojuld not expect a buy out before the season starts as I asume the team would prefer to trade him but lets be serious.

Now wait. I'm confused. Is this an example of a flexible contract? So THAT is what Petrie meant!

 

[VF21]

You never fail to disappoint as an ultimate homer/fangirl, V21. Just please remember that those of us who don't share that extreme, unwavering loyalty can't always make themselves be excited.

When I see the signing of Mikki Moore and the drafting of Hawes... I see that Justin Williams (the only thing to be excited about, really) will be getting even LESS playing time this season. I see that though the new coach is blabbing on and on about fast ball, his roster is still filled with one of the older line-ups in the league, and without a doubt the most athletically-challenged. You can say "run and gun" all ya want, but when you go out there with Hawes, Miller, Rahim, etc... heh, good luck.

You don't know what line-up we're going to see. I don't know what line-up we're going to see. I do know, however, that we at least have someone like Hawes to add into the mix and a full season of Justin Williams.

Reggie inherited this team. He has to do what he can to mold it into the type of team he wants to see on the court. He has said - and I have no reason NOT to believe him - that it's not going to be the veterans or the guys pulling down the most money that will always see the most playing time. That, in and of itself, seems worthy of at least a modicum of interest if not excitement.

I'm not saying everyone has to be excited. If you look again, in the quote you cited I actually said

I can always find something to give me a reason to look forward to the coming season.

I was continuing a discussion about someone who could find absolutely NOTHING to look forward to and I was honestly puzzled.

You called me "homer/fan girl" as if it was a bad thing. Homer and fan girl are derisive terms generally used to convey a negative opinion of people who have little to no basketball knowledge. Sorry if I disappoint you with my love of the game of basketball and the Sacramento Kings.

 

[Superman]

Financially none, but at this point money is NOT the only concern. The team has a logjam at the 4-5 with some young tallent that needs min. KT is virtually untradeable so the only choices are play him, bench him or buy him out. All 3 options cost the same amount of money. If you play him your kids get no min... hurts the team. If you bench him he becomes an even biger horses *** in the locker room AND there is NO chance anyone will take him off our hands. The buy out gets him out of the clubhouse. I wojuld not expect a buy out before the season starts as I asume the team would prefer to trade him but lets be serious.

I don't know, Jasper. I would much rather see him rot away on the bench for three years than see us buy him out. I mean, I'd rather just cut him than buy him out. There is no advantage for us to negotiate a deal with Kenny Thomas, even if it winds up saving us a total of a couple million. I guess my opinion is irrelevant since I'm not signing those checks (what's a couple mill of someone else's money, right?), but I would rather try to include him in a package three or four team deal, or even wait a season or two til he has value as an ender, than buy his contract out, because then we have no way to ever trade him and get anything for him.

If we buy him out, it represents a total failure to get anything from the Webber deal. And it makes me even more pissed off that we traded him in the first place.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Sure you can cut him and keep sending checks but a buy ot allows HIM to look for another team and and the Kings will no doubt pay him less in a buy out than full value on the paper. It really is more fair to both parties than simply cutting him bu holding on to his now useless paper. As a for a trade, sure in a dream world where some team might actuallly WANT Kenny but his contract is just too big o be a throw in on a player a team might really want. Like I said I expect the Kings to hold on to him untill the star of the seaosn just in case, but I would HOPE that one way or another Kenny will be gone well before mid season.

 

[Superman]

Sure you can cut him and keep sending checks but a buy ot allows HIM to look for another team and and the Kings will no doubt pay him less in a buy out than full value on the paper. It really is more fair to both parties than simply cutting him bu holding on to his now useless paper. As a for a trade, sure in a dream world where some team might actuallly WANT Kenny but his contract is just too big o be a throw in on a player a team might really want. Like I said I expect the Kings to hold on to him untill the star of the seaosn just in case, but I would HOPE that one way or another Kenny will be gone well before mid season.

I would rather pay him for the next two seasons and trade him as an ender than buy him out this season. That would save the Kings more money than buying him out would. And I don't really care what's fair to Kenny F. Thomas.

That's just my opinion, though.

 

[VF21]

It's not about what's fair to KT. It's about what's best for the entire team. Having someone around who is making a lot of money and really wants to start can be a major distraction, especially when he has never really grabbed the favor of the fans, isn't going to be a part of the future of the franchise, knows full well the majority of us would rather see him elsewhere, etc. Why do you think other teams buy out players?

 

[Warhawk]

It's not about what's fair to KT. It's about what's best for the entire team. Having someone around who is making a lot of money and really wants to start can be a major distraction, especially when he has never really grabbed the favor of the fans, isn't going to be a part of the future of the franchise, knows full well the majority of us would rather see him elsewhere, etc. Why do you think other teams buy out players?

I think he's referring to a Brent Price-type situation where he's on the team but out of the state for all we care....

Just because we pay him doesn't mean he has to be at ARCO, does it? You can try it for a year and see how he feels then about the value of a buyout and the possibility of him playing again.

Not saying I advocate this action, but I can see how it might be attractive to some.

 

[VF21]

Brent Price was physically unable to play because of back problems...but I know what you're saying. I just don't agree with dragging this out any longer than absolutely necessary.

Kenny Thomas is still able to play. If he was bought out here, he might actually have a chance to sign with another team. We have no idea how he feels about a buyout. He might welcome it with open arms. I'm still saying I think it just might happen.

The idea of paying him not to show up just smacks of insult and disrespect and it's not something I'd like to see the front office do.

 

[Superman]

It's not about what's fair to KT. It's about what's best for the entire team. Having someone around who is making a lot of money and really wants to start can be a major distraction, especially when he has never really grabbed the favor of the fans, isn't going to be a part of the future of the franchise, knows full well the majority of us would rather see him elsewhere, etc. Why do you think other teams buy out players?

I really don't see the benefit of buying other players out, actually. And in this case, when you're trying to rebuild, I would much rather see the Kings wait until the last hour before they do something so desperate. It's not going to save them much money, and it's not going to create cap space - in fact, it destroys the possibility, however remote it might be, of moving his contract to create cap space.

And, of course, there's the whole thing about how we came to acquire his contract in the first place. If we simply bought him out... I don't know. That makes it even worse, in my opinion.

 

[Rockmeister]

1. We have a much different type of coach.

Do we really have a different coach? Yes, Reggie Theus is a former player and he did coach the college level, however, have you seen him actually coach? Sure, he's not Musselman, however, I just can't get excited for someone that hasn't had enough coaching experience.

2. We finally have some young bigs we can be excited about.

We do?? Who? Hawes? I was against this pick in the first place. Hawes averaged 14 points and 6 rebounds in college. I don't think that's good numbers for a center whose 7'0".

If you honestly don't think there's anything to look forward to , why did you buy season tickets?

There was a deadline to renew your season tickets and it was way before the Kings organization did these signings (Reggie Theus, Mikki Moore and Spencer Hawes) I didn't know that they would make these kind of moves. IF I knew they would, I might not have renewed. I guess I was still hoping for "In Petrie We Trust". That's why I didn't give up my season tickets.

I don't see any excitement in seeing the oldest front court in the NBA. Miller and Shareef. Oh yea, and let's not forget about 32 year old Mikki Moore.

This is the same team as last year with a couple of players added. The moves they have made is just not the excitement that I was hoping for.

 

[Wuster]

Do we really have a different coach? Yes, Reggie Theus is a former player and he did coach the college level, however, have you seen him actually coach? Sure, he's not Musselman, however, I just can't get excited for someone that hasn't had enough coaching experience.



We do?? Who? Hawes? I was against this pick in the first place. Hawes averaged 14 points and 6 rebounds in college. I don't think that's good numbers for a center whose 7'0".



There was a deadline to renew your season tickets and it was way before the Kings organization did these signings (Reggie Theus, Mikki Moore and Spencer Hawes) I didn't know that they would make these kind of moves. IF I knew they would, I might not have renewed. I guess I was still hoping for "In Petrie We Trust". That's why I didn't give up my season tickets.

I don't see any excitement in seeing the oldest front court in the NBA. Miller and Shareef. Oh yea, and let's not forget about 32 year old Mikki Moore.

This is the same team as last year with a couple of players added. The moves they have made is just not the excitement that I was hoping for.

I find it difficult to argue with any of this assessment. I have moved to this glass-is-half-empty perspective for these and other reasons.

Still, as a Kings fan, I retain hope for the long term.

 

[VF21]

Do we really have a different coach? Yes, Reggie Theus is a former player and he did coach the college level, however, have you seen him actually coach? Sure, he's not Musselman, however, I just can't get excited for someone that hasn't had enough coaching experience.

As a matter of fact, I did see him coach during the NCAA tournament. I guess it boils down to me being excited over possibilities and you not being excited unless you've already seen results.

We do?? Who? Hawes? I was against this pick in the first place. Hawes averaged 14 points and 6 rebounds in college. I don't think that's good numbers for a center whose 7'0".

Hawes and a full season of Williams are again enough to get me feeling optimistic. You were against the pick of Hawes. I guess you and I really view things differently. It's not about whether or not you agreed with the pick. I look at it as being hopeful because Hawes WAS a top 10 pick in virtually every single list on the Internet. And he's 7 feet tall.

There was a deadline to renew your season tickets and it was way before the Kings organization did these signings (Reggie Theus, Mikki Moore and Spencer Hawes) I didn't know that they would make these kind of moves. IF I knew they would, I might not have renewed. I guess I was still hoping for "In Petrie We Trust". That's why I didn't give up my season tickets.

I don't see any excitement in seeing the oldest front court in the NBA. Miller and Shareef. Oh yea, and let's not forget about 32 year old Mikki Moore.

This is the same team as last year with a couple of players added. The moves they have made is just not the excitement that I was hoping for.

You're making a HUGE assumption in thinking Miller and SAR will be our main frontcourt. I suspect it might not play out that way at all, or if they are the starters, I think our young players will get significant playing time and exposure.

Regardless, we both know by now that you and I are pretty much polar opposites when it comes to the whole glass half-empty or half-full scenario. Bottom line, though, is we both WANT the same things for the Kings.

 

[dude12]

We do?? Who? Hawes? I was against this pick in the first place. Hawes averaged 14 points and 6 rebounds in college. I don't think that's good numbers for a center whose 7'0".

Hawes is only 21 or 22 years old. Does he take us to the playoffs next year or is he an impact player? No, but I'm excited about what type of player he may become. This kid has a real nice set of offensive skills. If he stayed in school, he's most likely a top 5 guy next year. I don't enjoy us losing but worse, I didn't enjoy watching us win most of our games last year as that was not a very entertaining team. I did enjoy watching the younger players play hard and getting after it at the end of last year. I can take that for a year or 2. Watching promising, developing players and likewise a promising coach, gets me through this season.

 

[Kingster]

The idea of paying him not to show up just smacks of insult and disrespect and it's not something I'd like to see the front office do.

Wow. I had been on the fence on this issue, but you just convinced me:


We should buy him out!

 

[dude12]

The idea of paying him not to show up just smacks of insult and disrespect and it's not something I'd like to see the front office do.

It is a business. Players get to hold out or demand trades. Teams get to tell some players to stay away. Not saying this is the case here for KT.

What if KT comes to training camp and then finds himself out of the rotation completely. Do you think he'll be a good teammate and be supportive of the team goals? If he proves disruptive then what do the King's do?

 

[Superman]

It is a business. Players get to hold out or demand trades. Teams get to tell some players to stay away. Not saying this is the case here for KT.

What if KT comes to training camp and then finds himself out of the rotation completely. Do you think he'll be a good teammate and be supportive of the team goals? If he proves disruptive then what do the King's do?

VF21 is saying we should buy him out so that he can move on with his career elsewhere.

I, to the contrary, don't give a hoot about his career. I would like to see the Kings do what's best for the organization long-term. It's a bit of a balancing act between worrying about the salary cap and so forth, and being careful not to damage the franchise's reputation any more than it has already been damaged. I don't think that holding onto KFT's contract for a couple more seasons, no matter how much he moans about it, will hurt the franchise all that much.

Then again, my primary motivation is that I just can't stand to see the final piece of the Webber deal get bought out and watch the Kings get nothing for it. And to make matters worse, KFT would probably sign with a contending team and end up in the playoffs next season.

 

[Smills91]

Hawes is only 21 or 22 years old. Does he take us to the playoffs next year or is he an impact player? No, but I'm excited about what type of player he may become. This kid has a real nice set of offensive skills. If he stayed in school, he's most likely a top 5 guy next year. I don't enjoy us losing but worse, I didn't enjoy watching us win most of our games last year as that was not a very entertaining team. I did enjoy watching the younger players play hard and getting after it at the end of last year. I can take that for a year or 2. Watching promising, developing players and likewise a promising coach, gets me through this season.

He's NINETEEN (19). ONE year removed from HS. He put up 14/6 with Mono for the majority of the season as a freshman at the D-1 level of basketball at age NINETEEN.

There's more to Hawes than just 14/6...the kid is 7 feet tall, has room to add muscle on his frame, is probably the most polished bigman to come out of college in terms of pure basketball skills since Tim Duncan(and he had 4 years of college experience).

I think Hawes will be an all-star down the road. He's just too skilled at such a young age not to.

You give him 3-4 years to grow into his frame from a strength perspective, gain experience and hone the vast skillset that he already has, I think the Kings perhaps drafted the #3 or #4 player in the draft when things are all said and done. He's that good.

 

[HndsmCelt]

I am no so sure that the MAIN PURPOSE of a buy out is to help Kenny bu rather it is a way for the Kings organization to save some money. It's hard to say how much money they will save since it is unclear what Kenny will accept but it would be less than the final cost of just keeping him on the roster. The other advantage to the team is that it will allow them to keep one more young player on the roster which SHOULD be the focus of a team in rebuild mode. Keeping Kenny on the hook out of spite does the team no ral good.

 

[Entity]

I am no so sure that the MAIN PURPOSE of a buy out is to help Kenny bu rather it is a way for the Kings organization to save some money. It's hard to say how much money they will save since it is unclear what Kenny will accept but it would be less than the final cost of just keeping him on the roster. The other advantage to the team is that it will allow them to keep one more young player on the roster which SHOULD be the focus of a team in rebuild mode. Keeping Kenny on the hook out of spite does the team no ral good.

Exactly. I am not sure how much his contract is over the next 3 seasons somthing like 25 million. So if we could buy him out for saaaayyyy 19 million that would essentially save us 6 million over the next 3 seasons. Maybe he would accept less if he was told his role would be the guy in the suit every game.

 

[dude12]

He's NINETEEN (19). ONE year removed from HS. He put up 14/6 with Mono for the majority of the season as a freshman at the D-1 level of basketball at age NINETEEN.

There's more to Hawes than just 14/6...the kid is 7 feet tall, has room to add muscle on his frame, is probably the most polished bigman to come out of college in terms of pure basketball skills since Tim Duncan(and he had 4 years of college experience).

I think Hawes will be an all-star down the road. He's just too skilled at such a young age not to.

You give him 3-4 years to grow into his frame from a strength perspective, gain experience and hone the vast skillset that he already has, I think the Kings perhaps drafted the #3 or #4 player in the draft when things are all said and done. He's that good.

Thanks for correcting me on the age....and I agree that this kid at the very least is going to be a solid to good pro with the chance to be more. I know he's going to get overmatched strength-wise at times this season, but he's also going to have some games where the fans are leaving Arco and excited about him. I really think we are fortunate that he stayed in the draft and we got him at 10.