what's going to happen after the break?

[bigbadred00]

Why does everyone want us to squeek into the 8th seed this year? Does any body believe that this team can actually win a game let alone playoff series against either the Spurs or Mavs? We have some talent, but not a very cohesive unit, we have some trade bait and the ability to get a player in the lottery that could potentially help right away or assist in a trade.

If we continue to get the 13-18th pick in the draft we are just going to be mired in mediocrity. We need to either make a move for some players with looking to the future or try and build through our young core and the draft. I am not one that wants to continually watch a 45 win team lose in the first round of the playoffs (e.g. Minnesota), not after the expectations that have been placed on this team in the last 7 years.

Problem is even if we are better than let's say the Clippers (we own them at home), we are so far behind them due to our poor start before getting Ronnie that we are going to be in trouble. I don't think the Kings have ever won a series when they didn't have home court advantage (maybe against the Mavs, who knows). But with that saying, the only team we could possibly beat being a 5-8 seed is the winner of the NW division (Utah, Minne, whatever, there all trash). That means we'd need the 6th seed and were pretty behind the Clippers who are struggling. I can't see us beating SA/Dallas this year, I can't see us beating Phx with Amare (maybe).

Sometimes you just dig a hole too deep. I'd like to see us make the Playoffs this year and going the right direction for next year. Next year I think we can make a definite move with our current roster (the only guy that's really a question mark is Bonzi who has been effectively replaced (so far).

 

[Kings113]

Win a game or two gainst the Mavs? Oh, indeed (not ignorant to the Mavericks season, either, I follow the league). Beating them? Don't know. Spurs? I'd say a sweep is highly possible.

 

[bcfy]

I believe most of our kings fans agree that we are very unstable as a team....1 night we can beat any top team in this league, while another night we can lose badly to any low team...

Let's think of it positively.....if we can somehow bring our A games 4 nights out of a 7 game serie, anything can happen.

So, playoff #8 seed? Why not? There are no one to draft from lottery anyways.

 

[BawLa]

Too bad it won't happen.

Sometimes your replies are nice an cute. And I like concise answers. But other times you need to actually back up your replies with an actual debate as to WHY you say that. Otherwise it has no validity, unless you can convince me that god itself whispered that in your ear.

 

[VF21]

Why does everyone want us to squeek into the 8th seed this year? Does any body believe that this team can actually win a game let alone playoff series against either the Spurs or Mavs? We have some talent, but not a very cohesive unit, we have some trade bait and the ability to get a player in the lottery that could potentially help right away or assist in a trade.

We're not saying we want to squeak into the 8th seed so much as we're saying we'd really love to see the Kings be able to salvage something from this season...

And most of us are FULLY aware of where our team stands.

Using your rationale, Chicago Cubs fans would have given up rooting for their team decades ago.

We're a team in transition. Anyone with access to radio, tv, print media, or jungle drums knows that.

That doesn't mean we can't hope for a "miracle" comeback.

ONE lottery pick isn't going to make this team better. We still have needs we have to address that won't be solved by one youngster, no matter who he is.

So, I'm going to continue to root for the team to win, not so much to get that 8th slot but because winning is infinitely better than losing.

GO KINGS!!!!

 

[Bricklayer]

Sometimes your replies are nice an cute. And I like concise answers. But other times you need to actually back up your replies with an actual debate as to WHY you say that. Otherwise it has no validity, unless you can convince me that god itself whispered that in your ear.

How about this:

1) NOBODY has 8 guys average double figures. Like ever. The Phoenix Suns have 7 this year while scoring 107ppg, and that's only because of injuries.

2) Ron Artest is going to be the offensive centerpiece. There is no way in hell he is going to settle for being back to 15ppg, and if we were to try it not only would we be idiots, we would have evil Ron show up on our doorstep before we could even retract it.

3) Bonzi Wells came here looking for minutes and shots. Take them away from him and you;re asking for it.

4) Reef at this point is a bencher until he outperforms the mighty KT. If he does outperform him, we already know KT is not 10ppg off the bench.

5) Garcia is everythign but a scorer. Hard to average 10 when a 10pt game is a good one for you and you are buried behind FOUR other guys at your position.

6) Besides, we of all fanbases should have learned the very hard lesson that communism and basketball do not mix. Show me a team with everybody averaging the same number of points/shots, and I'll show you a losing squad that has no idea how it wants to play night to night.

 

[BawLa]

We're not saying we want to squeak into the 8th seed so much as we're saying we'd really love to see the Kings be able to salvage something from this season...

And most of us are FULLY aware of where our team stands.

Using your rationale, Chicago Cubs fans would have given up rooting for their team decades ago.

We're a team in transition. Anyone with access to radio, tv, print media, or jungle drums knows that.

That doesn't mean we can't hope for a "miracle" comeback.

ONE lottery pick isn't going to make this team better. We still have needs we have to address that won't be solved by one youngster, no matter who he is.

So, I'm going to continue to root for the team to win, not so much to get that 8th slot but because winning is infinitely better than losing.

GO KINGS!!!!

Exactly.

And it would be better for K-Mart and Cisco and even SAR to get some playoff experience. That would do us much more for the future than getting another young guy that will take time to develop.

 

[Bricklayer]

ONE lottery pick isn't going to make this team better. We still have needs we have to address that won't be solved by one youngster, no matter who he is.

Well that's not necessarily true -- the World Champion Spurs would beg to differ. Just a question of whether that guy for us is in this draft or not.

 

[VF21]

Well that's not necessarily true -- the World Champion Spurs would beg to differ. Just a question of whether that guy for us is in this draft or not.

Drop that nit!!!



Seriously I don't follow the draft projections that closely but I don't really think there's a guy in this year's crop that would be the next Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, or LeBron James...

I'd much rather see Petrie do some significant trades in the off-season than put a lot of faith in a draft pick who, with the current roster, probably wouldn't see enough PT to matter anyway. (Espcially if we retain Adelman as the coach...)

Just my opinion, of course, but I agree with BawLa about getting a little playoff experiience for the guys who've never been there.

 

[BawLa]

How about this:

1) NOBODY has 8 guys average double figures. Like ever. The Phoenix Suns have 7 this year while scoring 107ppg, and that's only because of injuries.

2) Ron Artest is going to be the offensive centerpiece. There is no way in hell he is going to settle for being back to 15ppg, and if we were to try it not only would we be idiots, we would have evil Ron show up on our doorstep before we could even retract it.

3) Bonzi Wells came here looking for minutes and shots. Take them away from him and you;re asking for it.

4) Reef at this pont is a bencher.

5) Garcia is everythign but a scorer. Hard to average 10 when a 10pt game is a good one for you and you are buried behind FOUR other guys at your position.

6) Besides, we of all fanbases should have learned the very hard lesson that communism and basketball do not mix. Show me a team with everybody averaging the same number of points/shots, and I'll show you a losing squad that has no idea how it wants to play night to night.

1. We can be the first. We have the talent to accomplish that feat. Once everyone is on the same page then an Adelman offense is one that passes and distributes the ball well enough to accomplish that.

2. Ron said himself he wants to WIN. Yeah he also said he wants the ball more but that doesn't mean he has to score more. He can still be the offensive centerpiece without scoring 25 ppg. Also the numbers I put up were a GENERAL breakdown. Some nights Ron will be the starter that scores 20, other times 15. If we are winning and Ron is only scoring 15 ppg, then he will be happy IMO.

3. I came to California to mine some gold, but I didn't get any. S*** happens. Bonzi's role should be activity on the glass and hard nosed defense alongside Ron. He is not a good enough shooter to be taking more than 14 shots per game.

4. Reef should have more agility and rebounding ability after he returns to 100% because he will not have gained all 15 lbs back at that point. HE LEAD THE NBA IN SCORING PERCENTAGE BEFORE HIS INJURY. So why then should he not be a focal part of our offense.

5. Garcia has been seeing more minutes in a SG/SF rotation over the last few weeks. He seems to be able to run the point better than Jason Hart. Even Ron will get tired from all of his defensive intensity so Cisco will still see minutes. Not to mention his defensive ability that has recently been brought to the table. Look at his progression: Beginning of year - stunk, Mid season - better, After ASB - ? ........Follow the trend. Confidence is a heck of an ally.

6. Those numbers aren't intended to be exactly the same on every night. They are supposed to represent the averages I think we will see after the ASB and once we have everyone back.

 

[Kings113]

I absolutely loved Garcia's defense on Kobe in OT back in Jan., on TNT. When Kobe went 2-7 and, I think most, if not all were long jump shots.

 

[BMiller52]

Why does everyone want us to squeek into the 8th seed this year? Does any body believe that this team can actually win a game let alone playoff series against either the Spurs or Mavs? We have some talent, but not a very cohesive unit, we have some trade bait and the ability to get a player in the lottery that could potentially help right away or assist in a trade.

If we continue to get the 13-18th pick in the draft we are just going to be mired in mediocrity. We need to either make a move for some players with looking to the future or try and build through our young core and the draft. I am not one that wants to continually watch a 45 win team lose in the first round of the playoffs (e.g. Minnesota), not after the expectations that have been placed on this team in the last 7 years.

Because fans have pride in their team, because they want to see good basketball for the rest of the season, because players accepting tanking a season just means they're a bunch of losers who don't care, because Ron isn't going to be happy if we don't win, oh yeah there's a lot of reasons.

Not to mention the lottery is trash this year and you'll probably be able to get the same type of players from 15-20 range anyways. We don't need to draft another wing player, we won't have a good enough pick to draft one of the very good bigs(williams, splitter, aldridge).

I mean really, one trade that gets us a nice shotblocker/defender and more athleticism and this team can be a very good team and we can hang with anyone. If we do get into the playoffs that means we've gone on a good run so nobody will want to face us. I fully believe we can beat Phoenix if we can get the 7th seed, Amare had microfracture surgery he's not going to be the same. He's not going to give them the 26/9 he gave them last year on like 50% shooting. They'll probably get something like 17/7.5. Bibby can torch Nash and KM played well against them the last time we played them. If Ron can lock down Marion we can beat them.

That is why we should try for the playoffs, if we don't make it we atleast know our players gave it everything they had and we'll be back next year.

Oh yeah, Go Kings!

 

[LPKingsFan]

How about this:

1) NOBODY has 8 guys average double figures. Like ever. The Phoenix Suns have 7 this year while scoring 107ppg, and that's only because of injuries.

2) Ron Artest is going to be the offensive centerpiece. There is no way in hell he is going to settle for being back to 15ppg, and if we were to try it not only would we be idiots, we would have evil Ron show up on our doorstep before we could even retract it.

3) Bonzi Wells came here looking for minutes and shots. Take them away from him and you;re asking for it.

4) Reef at this point is a bencher until he outperforms the mighty KT. If he does outperform him, we already know KT is not 10ppg off the bench.

5) Garcia is everythign but a scorer. Hard to average 10 when a 10pt game is a good one for you and you are buried behind FOUR other guys at your position.

6) Besides, we of all fanbases should have learned the very hard lesson that communism and basketball do not mix. Show me a team with everybody averaging the same number of points/shots, and I'll show you a losing squad that has no idea how it wants to play night to night.

I knew you had my back.

No offense, BawLa. I didn't have the time to write all that, and I knew Brick would come along and do it better anyway.

 

[BawLa]

I knew you had my back.

No offense, BawLa. I didn't have the time to write all that, and I knew Brick would come along and do it better anyway.

None taken.

But its funny how you read what he wrote and completely missed my rebuttle.

 

[Stryder]

My general breakdown:

Bibby: 20
Ron: 15
SAR: 15
Brad: 15
Bonzi: 10

K-Mart: 15
Cisco:10
KT: 10

I know that's just a general breakdown, but from looking at those numbers it seems like they moved the ball well and just beat a Hawks team at home with a score of 110-88 or something. You might get those numbers now and then when they're running on all cylinders. But not every night. You will not get 15/game from K-Mart if he's coming off the bench. Only when he brings his 'A' game. Same goes for Cisco and KT.

I would start KT and Bonzi over Reef and Martin. That way Reef and Martin can be the 2 main options on the 2nd unit.

 

[BawLa]

I know that's just a general breakdown, but from looking at those numbers it seems like they moved the ball well and just beat a Hawks team at home with a score of 110-88 or something. You might get those numbers now and then when they're running on all cylinders. But not every night. You will not get 15/game from K-Mart if he's coming off the bench. Only when he brings his 'A' game. Same goes for Cisco and KT.

I would start KT and Bonzi over Reef and Martin. That way Reef and Martin can be the 2 main options on the 2nd unit.

The more games we have together, the closer we will be to clicking on all cylinders on a consistent basis. K-Mart has been shooting too well to not give him minutes. And even when Bonzi gets back, some of his minutes should be cut just to make sure he doesn't re-re-aggrivate his groin.

I like your reasoning for the 2nd unit. But I think Bonzi and Reef should start because that is the way it was at the beginning. You can't lose your job due to injury. You should lose minutes if your backup is playing better. But KT is hardly playing better than SAR was. He turns the ball over too much and has the ugliest jumpshot IMO. KT needs to come off the bench with a rebounding/defense mindset. And it will be easier for him to score going against backups.

Listen to my logic: SAR scores while Bonzi rebounds. Martin scores while KT rebounds.

 

[Stryder]

He turns the ball over too much and has the ugliest jumpshot IMO.

LOL, I'm with you on that one.

I jus think with Bibby, Artest, and Miller taking the majority of the shots, there won't be any for Shareef to be effective. We need K-9 to go in there and grab those offensive boards when Bibby and Artest continues to launch 3s even when they are having an off nite.

But if KT is sent back to the bench, maybe that won't be so bad. We'll have a more athletic team with that 2nd unit. They just need a PG that can push the ball.

 

[VF21]

KT needs to come off the bench with a rebounding/defense mindset.

This continues to crack me up...

KT has done better as a starter. SAR is willing to come off the bench. Why you would continue to believe things would work fine if the roles were reversed again amazes me.

You work with what you have. You try and force players into roles they clearly do not want at risk of your own peril. Unhappy players are: a) unproductive; b) disruptive; c) unhappy. We've had enough of that to last this franchise a lifetime, IMHO. The last thing we would want to do is destroy the fragile chemistry that's just beginning to emerge.

Putting KT back on the bench to allow SAR to start without a really, really good reason for it just wouldn't be good for the team.

 

[bibbinator]

Bonzi should be worked back in slowly so as to not aggravate his injury, and to not disrupt the team's rhythm.

I hate watching an injured guy come back for 40 minutes when he's still rusty.

 

[BawLa]

This continues to crack me up...

KT has done better as a starter. SAR is willing to come off the bench. Why you would continue to believe things would work fine if the roles were reversed again amazes me.

You work with what you have. You try and force players into roles they clearly do not want at risk of your own peril. Unhappy players are: a) unproductive; b) disruptive; c) unhappy. We've had enough of that to last this franchise a lifetime, IMHO. The last thing we would want to do is destroy the fragile chemistry that's just beginning to emerge.

Putting KT back on the bench to allow SAR to start without a really, really good reason for it just wouldn't be good for the team.

SAR has also done better as a starter. This injury could be a blessing in disguise because he lost some weight. He is rebounding well for only playing about 20 min/game. And he scores too effeciently to not be a starter. And my final point is that I want to see him play more minutes with Ron, when he is fully healthy. Everyone on the team seemed to catch that air of defense from Ron, maybe SAR will too. Rebounding and defense were our main concerns about Reef before his injury. Lets see what he can do.

The roles wouldn't be reversed. KT can come in off the bench and out-rebound everyone. KT looks much better against weaker opponents anyway, ie opponents' benchs. And if his attitude changes from coming off the bench then he needs to go in the doghouse because it's about the team and not individual stats.

I agree with you about messing up chemistry, but that will happen anyway once Bonzi comes back, which might be around the same time as Reef gets back to 100%.

 

[Entity]

Give me a few more games seeing Miller/Thomas/Artest/Wells/Bibby at work together, then we can talk trade.

we never saw 1 game with that lineup. The 2 games Bonzi came back Miller was out witht he thumb. So that lineup has never seen the floor at the same time.

 

[LPKingsFan]

we never saw 1 game with that lineup. The 2 games Bonzi came back Miller was out witht he thumb. So that lineup has never seen the floor at the same time.

Good catch. So, yeah, I want to see that!

 

[BMiller52]

SAR has also done better as a starter. This injury could be a blessing in disguise because he lost some weight. He is rebounding well for only playing about 20 min/game. And he scores too effeciently to not be a starter. And my final point is that I want to see him play more minutes with Ron, when he is fully healthy. Everyone on the team seemed to catch that air of defense from Ron, maybe SAR will too. Rebounding and defense were our main concerns about Reef before his injury. Lets see what he can do.

The roles wouldn't be reversed. KT can come in off the bench and out-rebound everyone. KT looks much better against weaker opponents anyway, ie opponents' benchs. And if his attitude changes from coming off the bench then he needs to go in the doghouse because it's about the team and not individual stats.

I agree with you about messing up chemistry, but that will happen anyway once Bonzi comes back, which might be around the same time as Reef gets back to 100%.

Ugh, a coach should maximize his talent. KT plays best as a starter, Reef plays well off the bench and doesn't complain. If we can't trade one of these guys(and that's how it's looking) then you have to just maximize the talent at that position if you're RA. If both are happy then what's the difference? He's getting the most production out of the position.

 

[VF21]

Excellent points, BMiller52.

People can act as though someone's attitude should be a certain way, but I think we all know that's much easier said than done.

At least Kenny is honest about it..and he's showed that he can perform at a higher level as a starter.

BawLa - It's not about KT's stats. It's about getting into the flow of the game, etc. He's doing it FOR the team. Most of this focus we tend to put on players is OUR emphasis, not theirs. They want to win more than they want individual glory on a losing team...

 

[BMiller52]

Excellent points, BMiller52.

People can act as though someone's attitude should be a certain way, but I think we all know that's much easier said than done.

At least Kenny is honest about it..and he's showed that he can perform at a higher level as a starter.

BawLa - It's not about KT's stats. It's about getting into the flow of the game, etc. He's doing it FOR the team. Most of this focus we tend to put on players is OUR emphasis, not theirs. They want to win more than they want individual glory on a losing team...

Thanks. I also just don't see what's so bad about having a guy who doesn't need the ball to be effective in the starting line up. People act like the world is going to end if we start Kenny, but it has been good for the team so far and getting us wins. Right now this team here is the one playing for Rick and he's got to find a way to get rebounds, points, and stops, with the team he has. Kenny doesn't need the ball and he is a double double threat every night. If he plays best starting and the other good PF we have, SAR, is fine with the 6th man role what is the problem? If it gets us wins it's fine by me.

Edit: Cool, VF21 quoted me in her sig!

 

[BawLa]

Thanks. I also just don't see what's so bad about having a guy who doesn't need the ball to be effective in the starting line up. People act like the world is going to end if we start Kenny, but it has been good for the team so far and getting us wins. Right now this team here is the one playing for Rick and he's got to find a way to get rebounds, points, and stops, with the team he has. Kenny doesn't need the ball and he is a double double threat every night. If he plays best starting and the other good PF we have, SAR, is fine with the 6th man role what is the problem? If it gets us wins it's fine by me.

Edit: Cool, VF21 quoted me in her sig!

I understand your points and I agree with them to an extent. But it isn't about a double double. If he doesn't need the ball then fine, but every time I see him jack up an ugly looking, ill-advised shot it makes my stomach hurt. I especially hurt when he turns the ball over. It kills the buzz and it's plays like that that really curb momentum. If he is more effective starting then fine, but SAR should still get good minutes. KT should get 28-30 while SAR gets the rest IMO.

The point I was trying to make was that maybe SAR will be rebounding better due to a loss in weight. And if so then we don't need KT to start because rebounding is the main role for Kenny.

KT playing better as a starter is chalk full of BS. The game is basketball. When you play from the middle or the beginning it is still the same game. It is up to the player to put forth effort. And if he won't put out as much effort off the bench then screw him. Take a look at K-Mart. Gives you 100% off the bench or starting....why? Because he his young and relishes the chance to play. Kenny has been starting in the league for years now and when he doesn't start he gets upset and doesn't play as well. Screw that. Look to the humble man in SAR. He doesn't really want to play off the bench, but he's okay with it because he is there for the good of the team.

 

[cdep73]

Show me a team with everybody averaging the same number of points/shots, and I'll show you a losing squad that has no idea how it wants to play night to night.

I can show you that,

 

[Goo]

Excellent points, BMiller52.

People can act as though someone's attitude should be a certain way, but I think we all know that's much easier said than done.

At least Kenny is honest about it..and he's showed that he can perform at a higher level as a starter.

BawLa - It's not about KT's stats. It's about getting into the flow of the game, etc. He's doing it FOR the team. Most of this focus we tend to put on players is OUR emphasis, not theirs. They want to win more than they want individual glory on a losing team...

If that's the case the starting 5 should be Bibby/Kmart/Gar/KT/Miller, the ball move very very good with those started, plus Kmart play alot better as a starter too(I know Ron is learning). And Yes I rate team above individual glory that's why those rich player should play their a$$ off no matter what situation they're in. If you're off the bench so be it because the management think it is the best for the team, if you have a off night you should pass it to the hot hand, if you're not in condition at least try not to screw up the game play...etc. And bottom line is starter should not lost their job due to injury after they return to 100%.

 

[pilot305]

I know what they should do DURING the break...


PRACTICE THEIR SHOOTING!

These 4th quarter melt-downs are getting old!!!!

 

[VF21]

If that's the case the starting 5 should be Bibby/Kmart/Gar/KT/Miller, the ball move very very good with those started, plus Kmart play alot better as a starter too(I know Ron is learning). And Yes I rate team above individual glory that's why those rich player should play their a$$ off no matter what situation they're in. If you're off the bench so be it because the management think it is the best for the team, if you have a off night you should pass it to the hot hand, if you're not in condition at least try not to screw up the game play...etc. And bottom line is starter should not lost their job due to injury after they return to 100%.

You'd start Garcia over Ron Artest?

You're certainly entitled to your opinion but you've left me totally speechless and that's not easy to do.

Peace.