What the hell is wrong with Ja Morant?

[pdxKingsFan]

I'm trying to find a world where playing with someone else's gun is a better look for anyone involved here.

I've lost a lot of respect for Silver the last year or so. Seems like he's very content to promote a handful of social issues so long as they don't cut into the league's bottom line and beyond that it's all about maximizing the return on established stars rather than creating new ones. I guess Ja made the cut of young ones they liked so rather than putting him in a timeout and maybe helping him to another 15 year career they're just gonna let him blow up over the next 2-3.

I'm sorry but I truly believe someone in his immediate orbit is going to get killed before this is over.

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

I've lost a lot of respect for Silver the last year or so. Seems like he's very content to promote a handful of social issues so long as they don't cut into the league's bottom line and beyond that it's all about maximizing the return on established stars rather than creating new ones.

I miss David Stern.

 

[mrlaze]

W?
T?
F?

 

[mrlaze]

This probaly does more to tarnish the NBA image that ja's actual actions.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I'm trying to find a world where playing with someone else's gun is a better look for anyone involved here.

My guess is that it doesn't invoke the Arenas/Crittenton escalation. Clearly the NBA considers having a gun in team facilities (irresponsibly or not) a more serious offense than appearing to be publicly irresponsible with a gun away from team facilities. And they have quite the historical reason to come down hard on the former. The latter? I can't really point to an instance where I can recall something of the sort happening, so was there a precedent at all?

 

[pdxKingsFan]

My guess is that it doesn't invoke the Arenas/Crittenton escalation. Clearly the NBA considers having a gun in team facilities (irresponsibly or not) a more serious offense than appearing to be publicly irresponsible with a gun away from team facilities. And they have quite the historical reason to come down hard on the former. The latter? I can't really point to an instance where I can recall something of the sort happening, so was there a precedent at all?

Don't get me wrong, of course having a gun in team facilities is bad. And I would bet dimes to dollars that Ja owns the gun and did have it on a flight or facilities.

I'm just trying to figure out how the legal ramifications outside the NBA and CBA with the PA aren't 100x more magnified if guy is handling someone else's weapon (probably while intoxicated, but he dropped 50k in the club in what appears to be singles so ain't nobody saw no drinking). I know Colorado has some pretty generous open carry provisions but I assume (ha, probably incorrectly) that you are only allowed to open carry your own firearm.

 

[funkykingston]

To answer this thread's question, nothing is wrong with Ja Morant. He went to treatment for two days and now all his decision making will be magically better.

This whole process has played out exactly like a playbook of how to game the process and get back on the court as soon as possible.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I know Colorado has some pretty generous open carry provisions but I assume (ha, probably incorrectly) that you are only allowed to open carry your own firearm.

I read through what would appear to be the relevant statutes and didn't find any ownership restriction to open carry - though obviously I may not have found the entire set of statutes. It does appear that in order for a non-resident to open carry there must be state reciprocity. I don't know if Morant is a citizen of Tennessee, but Tennessee does have reciprocity.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I read through what would appear to be the relevant statutes and didn't find any ownership restriction to open carry - though obviously I may not have found the entire set of statutes. It does appear that in order for a non-resident to open carry there must be state reciprocity. I don't know if Morant is a citizen of Tennessee, but Tennessee does have reciprocity.

I feel like I have pretty middle of the road values on neither extreme of this issue but it's wild to me you can just open carry someone else's gun. But I guess not remotely surprising either. Honestly guess I'll just hope/pray nobody gets hurt.

 

[macadocious]

My guess is that it doesn't invoke the Arenas/Crittenton escalation. Clearly the NBA considers having a gun in team facilities (irresponsibly or not) a more serious offense than appearing to be publicly irresponsible with a gun away from team facilities. And they have quite the historical reason to come down hard on the former. The latter? I can't really point to an instance where I can recall something of the sort happening, so was there a precedent at all?

Stephen Jackson got 7 games for a shooting and a brawl at a strip club in 2006/7. THis is after that Malice at the Palace, so it seems in line.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Stephen Jackson got 7 games for a shooting and a brawl at a strip club in 2006/7. THis is after that Malice at the Palace, so it seems in line.

Ah, yes. Well Jackson actually *fired* the gun, so it seems a bit worse than just waving one around for an Instagram to me. But the suspension is basically the same.

 

[kingsboi]

They coupled abuse and addiction into one spectrum.

It makes sense. Because abuse can lead to addiction. Addiction is a physical or psychological dependence, a lot of people abuse alcohol without dependence and aren't alcoholics. The treatment for these is different, but it is a spectrum.

I don't see the problem with destigmatizing diagnoses, if it leads to people accepting treatment. It isn't just a "feel good" thing, it's about getting people to accept they need help in a non-patronizing or demoralizing way. The problem with the old way is it lead to people refusing treatment and help.

Anyways, I think they are making a mistake with Ja. He needs more extensive counseling. I think "the lifestyle" has gotten to him and the most effective treatment will be separating from it for an extended period of time - 2-3 months typically is a good start, not 2 weeks.

Which makes me question what lead to the abuse to begin with? Too many variables at play here. I've never worked in a medical setting so I'm genuinely curious about the part where you say "the old way" versus the current way, could you elaborate a bit further how the old way differs?

 

[kingsboi]

8 game suspension, but the games he missed already count towards it.

https://twitter.com/statuses/1636081621513441281

Simmons took an entire season to get right due to his mental illness and even that doesn't seem to help, at least from a basketball productivity perspective. It's insincere on the NBA and the union's behalf to allow someone showing addictive tendencies to return so quickly but let's see how this plays out.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Which makes me question what lead to the abuse to begin with? Too many variables at play here. I've never worked in a medical setting so I'm genuinely curious about the part where you say "the old way" versus the current way, could you elaborate a bit further how the old way differs?

Here's an article from the New England Journal of Medicine on Patient Centered Care. It might help understand what the new models are for treating patients.
https://catalyst.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/CAT.17.0559

Basically, the old models involved a lot of doctors dictating treatment with no input from patients. Also a lot of old school doctors came off the way we stereotype mechanics treating women, and many women and POC have been put off by their doctors and avoided them.

I think sometimes some folks might take it too far (HAES, if you know what that is - basically extremely overweight people insisting they are normal and their weight has nothing to do with their other issues), but by and large a lot of education is now going into understanding what got the patient to where they are and understanding how we might help them out.

One of my favorite cases we do involves a homeless heroin addict who was actually a functioning member of society until they were given prescription opiates and not supervised to come off them. I don't know what caused Ja to behave the way he did, but there are all kinds of answers that don't just fit into our own preconceived biases on what makes Ja an alcoholic (or just an alcohol abuser).

 

[kingsboi]

Here's an article from the New England Journal of Medicine on Patient Centered Care. It might help understand what the new models are for treating patients.
https://catalyst.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/CAT.17.0559

Basically, the old models involved a lot of doctors dictating treatment with no input from patients. Also a lot of old school doctors came off the way we stereotype mechanics treating women, and many women and POC have been put off by their doctors and avoided them.

I think sometimes some folks might take it too far (HAES, if you know what that is - basically extremely overweight people insisting they are normal and their weight has nothing to do with their other issues), but by and large a lot of education is now going into understanding what got the patient to where they are and understanding how we might help them out.

One of my favorite cases we do involves a homeless heroin addict who was actually a functioning member of society until they were given prescription opiates and not supervised to come off them. I don't know what caused Ja to behave the way he did, but there are all kinds of answers that don't just fit into our own preconceived biases on what makes Ja an alcoholic (or just an alcohol abuser).

so more focus on education versus simply stating that patient x has these problems and it's best to prescribe drugs?

 

[Tetsujin]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1638260289085886477

You know what they say: The first step in the recovery process is to unequivocally deny you have a problem.

 

[mrlaze]

Wow. Not a very bright dude.

 

[Padrino]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1638260289085886477

You know what they say: The first step in the recovery process is to unequivocally deny you have a problem.

I don't pretend to have any insight into Ja's situation, but man, that is not a good look when you're on the heels of an eight-game suspension and were just admitted to counseling. It's not entirely clear what the shape of the counseling program is, but still... that does not seem like the kind of statement you should make in light of the circumstances.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

uhhhh. no effing words.

 

[PurpleHaze]

Morant has a maturity problem. The 23 year old problem child continuing to act like a 15 year old juvenile delinquent, lying, making excuses, making a fool out of himself.

 

[iowamcnabb]

I’d like to see a bit more context than that quote and even then we don’t have enough information to diagnose Ja with a drinking problem. In fact, we really don’t have any information that drinking was involved in any of these incidences. (Ja personally)

He has shown immaturity, a lack of conflict resolution skills and at least some willingness to start addressing the problems. An 8 day stay in Florida is a step in the right direction not necessarily the solution. Hopefully this is the wake up call he needs to own his actions and to take full advantage of his one in a million opportunity.

 

[PurpleHaze]

He digs himself in a hole deeper by the day with his statements. Besides losing over $1M NBA salary sponsors have already or considering voiding several very lucrative endorsement contracts. Morant's financial loses could be in the multi-millions. Powerade (Coca-Cola) cutting loose has now cost him $10M. Nike could be next as said watching the situation closely - probably not liking what they're seeing.

 

[ppine]

He's young, he's rich and he is full of himself. That is mostly what is wrong with him.

 

[funkykingston]

He's young, he's rich and he is full of himself. That is mostly what is wrong with him.

Very possibly.

I'm glad that some players are speaking out about mental health and getting treatment. But I think what bothered me with Ja Morant's situation during this season is that mental health was seemingly used as an excuse for what was just dumb decisions and bad behavior.

Saying that going on IG live while in a club and under the influence to wave a gun around was because he needed "stress management" seemed like complete cop out to me. Especially when the end result was a couple days of "treatment/counseling" which would supposedly fix everything.

If he has a more serious issue with substance abuse, then get treatment for that. If not, you're just making stupid choices and making excuses for them.

But we all knew that was a sham during the season and done just for PR purposes. And then he went and proved it by doing the same dumb things.

 

[dude12]

Silver setting the tone for what is coming down the pike by saying he was shocked…..pending an investigation

On Carmichael Dave show, CD and Kayte border line making excuses….border line or maybe more accurately why he would do something like this again. Was actually disappointed with their segment……..in this situation, I don’t see any reasoning for why other than he’s not bright.

 

[funkykingston]

Silver setting the tone for what is coming down the pike by saying he was shocked…..pending an investigation

Translation: He actually went and did the same stupid thing after standing in my office and promising he wouldn't? Time for a long suspension.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Translation: He actually went and did the same stupid thing after standing in my office and promising he wouldn't? Time for a long suspension.

I will not be surprised if he is looking at a year. The main thing is to make sure that other players know that when they are reprimanded they need to pay attention but it also allows the league to be sensitive to the claim that it's a mental health problem by giving Jah significant time to work on it. What Jah will do with his off time is of course anyone's guess.

 

[funkykingston]

I will not be surprised if he is looking at a year. The main thing is to make sure that other players know that when they are reprimanded they need to pay attention but it also allows the league to be sensitive to the claim that it's a mental health problem by giving Jah significant time to work on it. What Jah will do with his off time is of course anyone's guess.

The league knows a 1 year suspension wouldn't hold up on appeal based on precedent.

No one was hurt, the gun wasn't pointed at anyone, it didn't happen in an NBA arena or facility, and depending on where it took place, it may be that no laws were broken.

In a vacuum it's the type of thing that would get a player talked to by the front office and/or the league but not likely end in a suspension.

Based on Ja's recent history, I think 10-15 games is likely.

 

[mrlaze]

He needs jail time to get that rep he wants so bad. Nba suspension, who cares?

 

[HndsmCelt]

The league knows a 1 year suspension wouldn't hold up on appeal based on precedent.

No one was hurt, the gun wasn't pointed at anyone, it didn't happen in an NBA arena or facility, and depending on where it took place, it may be that no laws were broken.

In a vacuum it's the type of thing that would get a player talked to by the front office and/or the league but not likely end in a suspension.

Based on Ja's recent history, I think 10-15 games is likely.

At this point it's a whole lot less about the act as it is the absolute disregard to the talking to he already had. By posting a video of himself with a gun just after being suspended for the exact same thing and promising he wouldn't do it again this is essentially the same thing as Jah Morant telling the NBA to kiss his ass. If the league expects players to have any regard for League policy they really do have to demonstrate that there are actual consequences to not following it. I'm not saying you're wrong but I am saying is that a 10 game suspension is a joke to Jah. At that point Silver is almost better off pretending it never happened so he doesn't look weak with a response that gets laughed at.