What superstars (injured or not) can we get for Kevin?

[funkykingston]

So if I'm reading this thread correctly, the main thrust is that the Kings should trade Kevin Martin for a broken down TMac knowing that he probably won't play at all and will be a salary dump.

How does that make this team better in any way? The Kings (if they stay on their current course) will have the caproom to offer a max deal to any free agent they want next offseason. Unloading an asset like Martin changes nothing about that other than making the team that less attractive to a potential free agent because the team will have that much less talent.

How is this even a valid discussion? Is Kevin Martin a great player? No. Is he somewhat overpaid? Yes. Does dumping him for nothing improve this team in any way? Nope.

Besides which, the BEST case scenario would be if TMac inexplicably came back healthy and looked as good as ever. But of course, even that was never good enough to get him past the first round of the playoffs. And THAT'S a superstar?

Sheesh.

 

[AriesMar27]

i just wanted to use tmac as a salary dump for the players that we dont need to build around. i was mad tha twe didnt draft rubio but i am over that now. evans looks like he will be a sg, he's bigger and probably more athletic than martin. he actually played pg so i know he can pass the ball atleast a little bit. if we sacrifice martin to trade nocioni and beno we would be in good shape going into the 2010 offseason. unlike this year which we are wasting doing nothing. people dont want to take a chance with a 1 year rental of amare because it might cost us thompson. tmac wouldnt cost us evans or a pick. the rockets are in deep sh... right now with tmac and yao out with injuries. we could unload all of our unwanted contracts in one trade at the expense of martin.

though i honestly think that martin and ariza would be a cool duo to start with in houston. couple tha twith the draft pick that they will get for sucking all season and they will be rebuilt before we will.... if tmac is healthy and can play we would be front runners to sign him because we could pay him the most or do a s&t for a player that we could use.... it would be a win-win situation outside of losing martin.

 

[funkykingston]

Yes, it would be a win for the Rockets who actually get a guy that can play. Kevin's had some injury concerns himself, but at least nobody is whispering that he's done as they are with T-Mac.

But again, where is the upside for the Kings? What can they do with say $30 million in caproom that they can't do with the $20 million they are scheduled to have? Which player do you think they can realistically convince to come to Sacramento that would be better than Kevin? I think the reality of caproom is that it isn't as valuable as many people want to believe. How many superstars have changed teams via free agency?

I just don't see how giving away a good player who hasn't yet reached his prime for nothing makes this team better in the short or long term.

And I'd at least like to see Evans and Martin play together before deciding that it doesn't work and Martin needs to be dealt so Tyreke can play the offguard spot.

 

[AriesMar27]

we can let petrie do his job.... to hell with movable pieces, lets do what portland did and buy draft picks and young players... trading cash is better than trading players that no one wants.... lets hit the restart button.

 

[bigbadred00]

we can let petrie do his job.... to hell with movable pieces, lets do what portland did and buy draft picks and young players... trading cash is better than trading players that no one wants.... lets hit the restart button.

Portland also hit the lottery once and got lucky and got Brandon Roy with the 5th pick. Maybe Evans can be the next Roy. We have basically blown things up, why does cutting off Martin who is only 26 really solve? What does removing essentially the last piece really do, especially when he is still a viable commodity. And T-Mac is not a viable commodity. The Rockets were in fact better without him. He is a better defender and ball handler than Kevin but that's all that he's better in and I don't know what he expects to get paid but whatever it is, it isn't worth it. To me he's like another AI, another guy I would want no part of as a King's fan.

Are the Kings really a hot FA desitination? Will the Kings be a viable contender for names like Lebron, Wade, Bosh, etc. And if we trade Martin, who would these FAs really want to play with on the Kings? With that being said I think it's a pipe dream for us to be waiting on one of those 3 guys or any of the superstars in FA. There have hardly been any great FAs that have moved in FA in their primes other than maybe Shaq and I guess Nash off the top of my head. Their are obviously others but I think it would be tough for the Kings to pull. Their ownership group has been rocked by the economy. They have an old stadium. Attendance was I believe the worst in Kings history last year. These things don't sound like good things to potential FAs.

 

[Section 101]

evans looks like he will be a sg, he's bigger and probably more athletic than martin.

Evans has more muscle mass yes, but martin is taller and way more athletic.

 

[Section 101]

we can let petrie do his job.... to hell with movable pieces, lets do what portland did and buy draft picks and young players... trading cash is better than trading players that no one wants.... lets hit the restart button.

How about you buy me a brand new BMW?

It's easy to spend other peoples money. In case you haven't noticed in all the recent trades the Kings have received mone. They aren't about to buy anything.

 

[Spike]

we can let petrie do his job.... to hell with movable pieces, lets do what portland did and buy draft picks and young players... trading cash is better than trading players that no one wants.... lets hit the restart button.

2007 Spencer Hawes, 10th pick
2008 Jason Thompson 12th pick
2009 Tyreke Evans 4th pick

Dude, Martin and Nocioni came in to the NBA in 2004. I get that Nocs is almost 30, but he's the type of vet I want on a young team. Seems like a pretty young team to me - try a different line of reasoning. As others have said before, there isn't much salary left to dump. I wouldn't want AI or anyone like that here. If that's what it'll take to get your money, you'll lose another three fans for each one you pick up.

Frankly, this is the ugly side of the rebuild, get used to it. We'll see what happens next year in the draft, where a top 5 pick will be of stronger value. And hey, a crazy thought, maybe, just maybe, these younger guys will be a solid core for a championship team.

To call them scrubs at this point in the game is lunacy.

 

[jthompson1]

I stopped reading when I saw that you wanted to trade Kevin for T-Mac.

same here haha

 

[swisshh]

Even in a fire sale Chris Paul is untouchable.

Chris Paul may make it clear he won't resign with Charlotte, at which point he may no longer be untouchable.

But Kevin and a first rounder still may not be good enough bait.

 

[NME]

Chris Paul may make it clear he won't resign with Charlotte, at which point he may no longer be untouchable.

I'm putting the chance that he doesn't resign with Charlotte at 100%.

 

[AriesMar27]

how come everyone loves kevin in this thread but hates him in the current one?

yeah i just wanted to bump this thread because i thought that now since everyone wants kevin gone but are affraid that we will still have beno now we have a place to propose outrageous ways to get rid of both.... because we all know that the only way that we get rid of beno or nocioni would be by packaging one of them with kevin.

so, does anyone have a trade idea?

 

[HighTopKicks]

how come everyone loves kevin in this thread but hates him in the current one?

yeah i just wanted to bump this thread because i thought that now since everyone wants kevin gone but are affraid that we will still have beno now we have a place to propose outrageous ways to get rid of both.... because we all know that the only way that we get rid of beno or nocioni would be by packaging one of them with kevin.

so, does anyone have a trade idea?

I don't know anything of the kind. And, You don't know it either. You may think it, but if you really knew the future, you should be trading stocks online instead of making outrageous statements.

The fact of the matter is that the Kings might not even be ready to trade Beno yet. After all, he's the only PG that can shoot the 3pt shot at a reasonable rate. And, they might want to hold onto Noc, until either Casspi or Greene step up. The Kings haven't shown a propensity to spend any money or use their cap space. And, other than a backup center the roster has a good balance of vets & rookies at all positions (assuming we sign May).

We're under the cap, and have two years before any of our rookie contracts expire. So, there isn't any financial urgency to move anyone. They can just wait and allow Westphal to work his magic, then decide what they have to work with and who if anyone they need to trade.

 

[Kings Faithful]

I don't know anything of the kind. And, You don't know it either. You may think it, but if you really knew the future, you should be trading stocks online instead of making outrageous statements.

The fact of the matter is that the Kings might not even be ready to trade Beno yet. After all, he's the only PG that can shoot the 3pt shot at a reasonable rate. And, they might want to hold onto Noc, until either Casspi or Greene step up. The Kings haven't shown a propensity to spend any money or use their cap space. And, other than a backup center the roster has a good balance of vets & rookies at all positions (assuming we sign May).

We're under the cap, and have two years before any of our rookie contracts expire. So, there isn't any financial urgency to move anyone. They can just wait and allow Westphal to work his magic, then decide what they have to work with and who if anyone they need to trade.

Well, last season he was absolutely atrocious in that aspect... so I wouldn't really miss his 3pt ability too much at this point. If he can get back to where he was 2 years ago I would be pleased.

 

[Bricklayer]

Here's the thing -- trading Kevin or not, superstar are a very hard thing to get your hands on. Teams just don't trade them except in extremis. And just looking aroudn the league right now, even extending the definition you've got:

-Boston guys: too old, not going anywhere. Might be able to trade Kevin for Allen, but then Allen is not a superstar and way too old.
- Wade = not us
- Lebrton = not us
- Kobe = gong nowhere
- Dwight = going nowhere
Houston guys = broken down and out
Dirk = too old, likely going nowhere
Nash -- too old, not a superstar anymore (if he ever was)
Roy -- probably not a superstar, not going anywhere
Duncan -- might not even be a superstar anymore, too old, not going anywhere
Melo -- borderline case, but not really a superstar either. Going nowhere after last season.
etc.

-----------------------

Anyway, here are the interesting/maybe 1% chance of being possible type players (definition extended of course):

1) Bosh -- seems unlikely he'll be moved this summer now after they made all the tinkering moves
2) Amare -- may truly be available, still wonder if a JT and KT combo with a Noc or Beno thrown in as salary matchers would get us in range. Using Kevin not necesary or wise there. And with his ego and need to be worshipped, his looming free agency a major issue.
3) Arenas -- not sure what they are thinking down there, but after 1 1/2 seasons off I could see him being available for the right price (or not)
4) Boozer -- not a superstar, but if he actually was on the court rather than missing half of every season just a half step off Bosh/Amare. Similar package to the Amare thing might get their attention.
5) CP3 -- the ultimate longshot, as I interpreted his comments more as a complaint about management's current focus than anything else, but when a first team all NBAer says he could see himself being dealt, you listen and make your pitch. Kevin would have to spearhead it. And almsot surely one of the Spencer/JT/Evans trio as well. And it would still be worth it.

 

[AriesMar27]

yeah it would have to be a salary dump, which is basically trading kevin for nothing... but we would be getting rid of either beno or nocioni.... like i said, if evans is a good enough player at sg we could take the risk at trading martin for a huge expiring contract instead of a superstar. trading kevin for the sake of trading kevin.... and beno... which might make us better overall in the long run.....

kevin and beno/nocioni (either one) could get you...

ilgauskas and west, possibly a late 1st...
amare and richardson, but you would have to add thomas....
boozer and some unwanted utah players....

we dont gain much after this season besides having tons of capspace that we wont be able to use to pay for a superstar because no one will want to come here. though trading for amare and richardson might workout if sergio and evans play well. we would be a playoff team but wouldnt be able to get very far unless amare goes off and becomes a real superstar.

 

[Jkbiker]

5) CP3 -- the ultimate longshot, as I interpreted his comments more as a complaint about management's current focus than anything else, but when a first team all NBAer says he could see himself being dealt, you listen and make your pitch. Kevin would have to spearhead it. And almsot surely one of the Spencer/JT/Evans trio as well. And it would still be worth it.

Well when I saw that CP3 's comments, made me think, hmmm Hornets in financial trouble, needs to save some dough, I tried a bunch of combinations on RealGm could not seem to make any trades work, but if it could be done with Kevin and expirings, wow, now there is one awesome PG, maybe put Evans at the 2? only thing would be have enough perimeter shooting to dish out too?

Oh well one can dream

 

[Bricklayer]

Well when I saw that CP3 's comments, made me think, hmmm Hornets in financial trouble, needs to save some dough, I tried a bunch of combinations on RealGm could not seem to make any trades work, but if it could be done with Kevin and expirings, wow, now there is one awesome PG, maybe put Evans at the 2? only thing would be have enough perimeter shooting to dish out too?

Oh well one can dream

I'm sure they'd ask for, and get, one of our kids too.

But that's the thing abotu getting a legit superstar -- that's ok. You have eyars to fill in the rest of the picture in just the right proportions and an open contention window for however long it takes.

 

[bigbadred00]

If we could get CP3 who is only going to be 24, I'd honestly trade most of the team for him. Honestly noone would be untradable to me in order to get him. He's unbelievably good. COnsidering how competitive the west is, and what he's done with pretty marginal talent in the west is pretty amazing. They really only have him, Chandler and West. West is the only guy who is close to all-star level on that team and he's really not that great without Cp3. They had a top 5 record the year before last year and this year with injuries they still won 49 games. I'd be willing to trade Martin, a protected first and Thompson or whatever (although I think they would want a guard on that team). In the NBA you need a superstar. He's one of the best 5 players in the NBA hands down. I'd honestly be willing to trade Evans to get him. At 24 you'd have a building block for the next 7-10 years and a guaranteed superstar. I'd say do whatever it takes but I doubt the Hornets will ever deal him.

 

[bajaden]

I'm putting the chance that he doesn't resign with Charlotte at 100%.

So what happened to 110%?

 

[bajaden]

If we could get CP3 who is only going to be 24, I'd honestly trade most of the team for him. Honestly noone would be untradable to me in order to get him. He's unbelievably good. COnsidering how competitive the west is, and what he's done with pretty marginal talent in the west is pretty amazing. They really only have him, Chandler and West. West is the only guy who is close to all-star level on that team and he's really not that great without Cp3. They had a top 5 record the year before last year and this year with injuries they still won 49 games. I'd be willing to trade Martin, a protected first and Thompson or whatever (although I think they would want a guard on that team). In the NBA you need a superstar. He's one of the best 5 players in the NBA hands down. I'd honestly be willing to trade Evans to get him. At 24 you'd have a building block for the next 7-10 years and a guaranteed superstar. I'd say do whatever it takes but I doubt the Hornets will ever deal him.

You sort of beat me to it. If the Kings firmly believe that Evans is only effective with the ball in his hands, then I'm not sure he would be a good fit on the floor with Paul. So including him in the deal would make sense. The trick is to do a deal and not create any huge holes in the lineup. You still have to have a good enough team here that Paul would want to stay.

 

[AriesMar27]

You sort of beat me to it. If the Kings firmly believe that Evans is only effective with the ball in his hands, then I'm not sure he would be a good fit on the floor with Paul. So including him in the deal would make sense. The trick is to do a deal and not create any huge holes in the lineup. You still have to have a good enough team here that Paul would want to stay.

evans would have to be in the deal... paul is the type of player that would make martin into an all star. if he can do it with west he can turn martin into a superstar... if we could somehow get a big that can rebound we would be set.

 

[Bricklayer]

evans would have to be in the deal... paul is the type of player that would make martin into an all star. if he can do it with west he can turn martin into a superstar... if we could somehow get a big that can rebound we would be set.

obviously Martin would have to be the core guy given up, so its not a question of Evans or Martin. Its Martin + 1 of Evans/JT/Hawes + pick. At least in theory if the Hornets ever did touch off that bidding war.

 

[TTown Kings]

obviously Martin would have to be the core guy given up, so its not a question of Evans or Martin. Its Martin + 1 of Evans/JT/Hawes + pick. At least in theory if the Hornets ever did touch off that bidding war.

I would think KT's expiring may need to be part of the deal as well

 

[AriesMar27]

obviously Martin would have to be the core guy given up, so its not a question of Evans or Martin. Its Martin + 1 of Evans/JT/Hawes + pick. At least in theory if the Hornets ever did touch off that bidding war.

the way i saw it was that if they were to move paul it would be a financial move... so thats why i excluded martin. evans/thomas/sergio for paul would be the trade instead of adding martins longterm deal....

 

[Jkbiker]

Kevin Martin,Jason Thompson,Kenny Thomas, 1st Rounder $20,491,000

Chris Paul, Peja $26,512,000 Salary out

Works on ESPN Trade

Why Kings do it? CP3 and Evans to two spot
Use Our cap space now but opens in 2011 year

Why New Orleans do it?

Saves 6 Mil this year, 9Mil KT Next year
They get Our best player, promising big, and 1st
Moves Peja's bad contract

 

[Amory]

Kevin Martin,Jason Thompson,Kenny Thomas, 1st Rounder $20,491,000

Chris Paul, Peja $26,512,000 Salary out

Works on ESPN Trade

Why Kings do it? CP3 and Evans to two spot
Use Our cap space now but opens in 2011 year

Why New Orleans do it?

Saves 6 Mil this year, 9Mil KT Next year
They get Our best player, promising big, and 1st
Moves Peja's bad contract

Hah, I would give almost anything for CP3.

Getting Peja back though....I don't know.

 

[AriesMar27]

Kevin Martin,Jason Thompson,Kenny Thomas, 1st Rounder $20,491,000

Chris Paul, Peja $26,512,000 Salary out

Works on ESPN Trade

Why Kings do it? CP3 and Evans to two spot
Use Our cap space now but opens in 2011 year

Why New Orleans do it?

Saves 6 Mil this year, 9Mil KT Next year
They get Our best player, promising big, and 1st
Moves Peja's bad contract

im all for trading for chris paul but to include peja without moving one of our other sfs?

peja, nocioni, greene, casspi and garcia? okay garcia can play most of his minutes backing up at sg but still.... and we would have no pf again.... im cool with trading thompson but we would need a pf in return. thats why i only included him in trades for other pf's.... we can trade martin for a player at any position because we have evans and garcia. but with thompson, we have no other pf after him... unless you think may and brockman can do it.

 

[Kingster]

Evans has more muscle mass yes, but martin is taller and way more athletic.

Depends what you mean by athletic. If you mean quickness, then Martin is superior. If you mean coordination and fluidity, Evans is superior (Evans could do a reverse pivot move in high school; Martin still can't do it).

 

[AriesMar27]

Depends what you mean by athletic. If you mean quickness, then Martin is superior. If you mean coordination and fluidity, Evans is superior (Evans could do a reverse pivot move in high school; Martin still can't do it).

yeah and evans can do all of that with the ball in his hands... martin is quicker but unless they are going in a straight line he cant stay with evans.