What is Your Western Conference Top Eight

[Kings2805]

I have two Q's to ask all people who put Phonix ahead of the Kings this upcoming season: Did you watch what made Phoneix so successful last season, and have you seen the 2 starters they lost? They averaged 110.4 pts/gm last year, and gave up an average of 103.3 on D. Well guess what everybody they lost Joe Johnson, and Q which I am sure all of you know, it makes a big difference overall, and I will tell you why.

Phoenix set a NBA record with 796 3pts last year, Joe and Q accounted for 403 of those which is 50.6% of the total 3pts made last year. They got Raja Bell who made 54 last year, Kurt T who made 2, and James Jones who made 66 all three combined made = 122. So when I take 403-122 it comes out to 281 less 3 pointers. When you take the 281x3pts=843 less points than last year. They totaled 9,054 total points last year minus 843=8,211 then you take that 8211 figure and divide it by 82 games, and guess what they go from 110.4 down to 100.13 pts a game. Which for my mathematically challenged friends is a decrease of over 10.27 pts a game. See instead of posting on opinion people should probably do research, and realize Phoenix will not be as good, and I backed it up with stats, and my friends NUMBERS DON'T LIE. The Kings will win the Pacific, and will finish in the TOP 4 GAURANTEED.

If you want you can verify all the numbers, and stats I came up with to verify accuracy. Well that is all I have to say, and also remember when Sam Cassell had his breakout year in 03-04 went to his 1st All Star game, career high in pts and then last year declined to his career low in games played, and pts/gm. It is going to be very hard for Steve Nash to duplicate last year, he is over 30 now, and will go on the decline, he reached his peak last season, and now it will be a gradual decline.

 

[Diabeticwonder]

I have two Q's to ask all people who put Phonix ahead of the Kings this upcoming season: Did you watch what made Phoneix so successful last season, and have you seen the 2 starters they lost? They averaged 110.4 pts/gm last year, and gave up an average of 103.3 on D. Well guess what everybody they lost Joe Johnson, and Q which I am sure all of you know, it makes a big difference overall, and I will tell you why.

Phoenix set a NBA record with 796 3pts last year, Joe and Q accounted for 403 of those which is 50.6% of the total 3pts made last year. They got Raja Bell who made 54 last year, Kurt T who made 2, and James Jones who made 66 all three combined made = 122. So when I take 403-122 it comes out to 281 less 3 pointers. When you take the 281x3pts=843 less points than last year. They totaled 9,054 total points last year minus 843=8,211 then you take that 8211 figure and divide it by 82 games, and guess what they go from 110.4 down to 100.13 pts a game. Which for my mathematically challenged friends is a decrease of over 10.27 pts a game. See instead of posting on opinion people should probably do research, and realize Phoenix will not be as good, and I backed it up with stats, and my friends NUMBERS DON'T LIE. The Kings will win the Pacific, and will finish in the TOP 4 GAURANTEED.

If you want you can verify all the numbers, and stats I came up with to verify accuracy. Well that is all I have to say, and also remember when Sam Cassell had his breakout year in 03-04 went to his 1st All Star game, career high in pts and then last year declined to his career low in games played, and pts/gm. It is going to be very hard for Steve Nash to duplicate last year, he is over 30 now, and will go on the decline, he reached his peak last season, and now it will be a gradual decline.

While I don't question your mathematical skills I do question your black and white logic. On the flip side of your argument...Raja Bell and Kurt Thomas play much, MUCH better defense than those players they will be replacing. And while I'm not even going to try and add, subtract, divide and multiply to find out what I think will be a difference in opponent's fg%, shooting %, etc...I do know that the Suns will not give up on average 103.3 pts per game. Thus, if the Suns as you point out will only average 100.13 pts per game this year, then all they have to do is hold their opponents to 3+ more pts this year and they will be successful. Additionally, less 3 pointers shot usually means less break out points for the other team. So, if you are right and I do think that the Suns will shoot less 3's this year then I also think that it will limit their opponent's break out chances.

I for one believe that the Kings will finish higher than Phx this year, but I don't think that your argument, although backed up by numbers (nice job), needs to factor in the defense they will be adding with their new acquisitions.

 

[Bricklayer]

I have two Q's to ask all people who put Phonix ahead of the Kings this upcoming season: Did you watch what made Phoneix so successful last season, and have you seen the 2 starters they lost? They averaged 110.4 pts/gm last year, and gave up an average of 103.3 on D. Well guess what everybody they lost Joe Johnson, and Q which I am sure all of you know, it makes a big difference overall, and I will tell you why.

Phoenix set a NBA record with 796 3pts last year, Joe and Q accounted for 403 of those which is 50.6% of the total 3pts made last year. They got Raja Bell who made 54 last year, Kurt T who made 2, and James Jones who made 66 all three combined made = 122. So when I take 403-122 it comes out to 281 less 3 pointers. When you take the 281x3pts=843 less points than last year. They totaled 9,054 total points last year minus 843=8,211 then you take that 8211 figure and divide it by 82 games, and guess what they go from 110.4 down to 100.13 pts a game. Which for my mathematically challenged friends is a decrease of over 10.27 pts a game. See instead of posting on opinion people should probably do research, and realize Phoenix will not be as good, and I backed it up with stats, and my friends NUMBERS DON'T LIE. The Kings will win the Pacific, and will finish in the TOP 4 GAURANTEED.

If you want you can verify all the numbers, and stats I came up with to verify accuracy. Well that is all I have to say, and also remember when Sam Cassell had his breakout year in 03-04 went to his 1st All Star game, career high in pts and then last year declined to his career low in games played, and pts/gm. It is going to be very hard for Steve Nash to duplicate last year, he is over 30 now, and will go on the decline, he reached his peak last season, and now it will be a gradual decline.

So let me get this stragiht -- you do a statistical analysis in which you entirely fail to factor in defense, nor factor in different roles/increased shot attempts for the new Suns, additional shots distributed to old Suns, add up the numbers for three pointers only (ignoring overall scoring, passing, rebounding etc. etc.) and then have the audacity to pretend superiority in your work? Back to the chalkboard for you my friend.

 

[VF21]

If you want you can verify all the numbers, and stats I came up with to verify accuracy.

You made one critical error:

You assume that statistical superiority wins championships. Unfortunately, that's not true. If it was, the Kings would have at least one O'Brien trophy sitting in Arco right now.

The thread specifically asks people for their OPINIONS about what they think the Western Conference top eight will be. I know it might come as a shock to you, but not everyone forms an opinion based upon lots of numbers, calculations, etc. And, brace yourself - that doesn't make them right or wrong. It simply makes their opinion different.

See instead of posting on opinion people should probably do research, and realize Phoenix will not be as good, and I backed it up with stats, and my friends NUMBERS DON'T LIE. The Kings will win the Pacific, and will finish in the TOP 4 GAURANTEED.

Sports message boards are totally dependent upon people posting their opinions. Your opinion, which contains a LOT of fallacies BTW, isn't the only one around... you could be right and (GASP!) you might be wrong. Numbers may not lie, but interpretation and selective use of statistics is nowhere near an exact science, especially in sports. If it was, no one would actually have to play the games.

 

[KingsRNumba1]

As much as i hate to say it ,you can't count out the suns. They still have nash, amare, and marion. They also signed 3 players that can help improve their defense.

 

[Gary]

I have two Q's to ask all people who put Phonix ahead of the Kings this upcoming season: Did you watch what made Phoneix so successful last season, and have you seen the 2 starters they lost? They averaged 110.4 pts/gm last year, and gave up an average of 103.3 on D. Well guess what everybody they lost Joe Johnson, and Q which I am sure all of you know, it makes a big difference overall, and I will tell you why.

Phoenix set a NBA record with 796 3pts last year, Joe and Q accounted for 403 of those which is 50.6% of the total 3pts made last year. They got Raja Bell who made 54 last year, Kurt T who made 2, and James Jones who made 66 all three combined made = 122. So when I take 403-122 it comes out to 281 less 3 pointers. When you take the 281x3pts=843 less points than last year. They totaled 9,054 total points last year minus 843=8,211 then you take that 8211 figure and divide it by 82 games, and guess what they go from 110.4 down to 100.13 pts a game. Which for my mathematically challenged friends is a decrease of over 10.27 pts a game. See instead of posting on opinion people should probably do research, and realize Phoenix will not be as good, and I backed it up with stats, and my friends NUMBERS DON'T LIE. The Kings will win the Pacific, and will finish in the TOP 4 GAURANTEED.

If you want you can verify all the numbers, and stats I came up with to verify accuracy. Well that is all I have to say, and also remember when Sam Cassell had his breakout year in 03-04 went to his 1st All Star game, career high in pts and then last year declined to his career low in games played, and pts/gm. It is going to be very hard for Steve Nash to duplicate last year, he is over 30 now, and will go on the decline, he reached his peak last season, and now it will be a gradual decline.

Than according to the numbers game we should have been a better team with KT, Williamson, and Skinner last year. They put up nearly 30 points, and well more than 15 rebounds. What you have there is the "on paper" argument.

 

[NugzFan]

1.spurs
2.kings
3.phoenix
4.houston
5.dallas
6.denver
7.minesota
8.lakers

PS. why some people believe that the nuggets are better than kings?

well it somewhat possible. neither team is a lock to finish ahead of the other.

 

[Kings113]

West is pretty wide open aside from the Spurs anyways.

 

[NugzFan]

two problems...

1) KMart vs. SAR- pretty much a wash, both somewhat overrated, SAR a better force offensively, KMart a better rebounder/athlete- I think SAR is more complete, but that could be the Kings fan in me talking

2) Camby vs. Brad- Brad, easily!

 

[NugzFan]

Camby only has the defense over Brad.

is that all? damn.

 

[Ray Allen34]

phoenix still have 3 all-stars and one guy who could be MVP really soon and i'm not talking about the reigning MVP steve Nash

they are deeper, better defensively and still have good shooters around Amare.

they should be a lock for the division.

 

[Kings113]

Not deeper by much. They still have a weak bench, improved from last years an okay amount though. They don't even have a back-up PG (Barbosa doesn't count, as we all saw last year he couldn't really do it as he was inconsistent). I wouldn't say they're a lock.

 

[Kings2805]

phoenix still have 3 all-stars and one guy who could be MVP really soon and i'm not talking about the reigning MVP steve Nash

they are deeper, better defensively and still have good shooters around Amare.

they should be a lock for the division.

Well Peja is a 3 time All-Star, Brad a 2 time All-Star, Shareef a 1 time All-Star, and Bibby a soon to be All-Star, so what exactly is your point? The only person on Phoenix other than nash that could be MVP is Amare. Personally I would take the Kings bench over Phoenixs' any day of the week, but that is just me. The Kings now have a low post option that we haven't had since Vlade in 03-04, well actually 2 of them, and 3 peeps who can drain outside shots (peja, bibby, miller). We are deep at every position, and we have 2 young up and coming SG/SF in Garcia and Martin. I love your optimism for Phoenix, but losing JJ and Q and going defensive, will not make them a better team. In the end we will have to wait til the end of the regular season, to see whos predictions/opinion is correct.

 

[Ray Allen34]

Well Peja is a 3 time All-Star, Brad a 2 time All-Star, Shareef a 1 time All-Star, and Bibby a soon to be All-Star, so what exactly is your point? The only person on Phoenix other than nash that could be MVP is Amare. Personally I would take the Kings bench over Phoenixs' any day of the week, but that is just me. The Kings now have a low post option that we haven't had since Vlade in 03-04, well actually 2 of them, and 3 peeps who can drain outside shots (peja, bibby, miller). We are deep at every position, and we have 2 young up and coming SG/SF in Garcia and Martin. I love your optimism for Phoenix, but losing JJ and Q and going defensive, will not make them a better team. In the end we will have to wait til the end of the regular season, to see whos predictions/opinion is correct.

Not of them are all-stars now and the Suns 3 are much better overall players that the ones you mentioned. What low post player did the kings add? SAR is a face open player. He rarely posts up.

I wouldn't say the Kings are that deep but they have enough offensively to win games as they do every year.

Losing JJ will hurt but Raja Bell can more than hold his own in replacing him. Q richardson took alot of threes, made many but missed more. They added a big man who is a much better defender who can open things up for Amare inside. So that was a good trade.

Suns may not win more regular season games but come playoff time they will be much better suited to win. Saying that they did make the conference finals. But against the Spurs, they will match up better.

 

[hrdboild]

Just off the top of my head, I expect the Western Conference to look something like this...

Southwest:
San Antonio
Houston
Dallas
Memphis
New Orleans

Northwest:
Denver
Seattle
Utah
Minnesota
Portland

Pacific:
Sacramento
Phoenix
Golden State
LA Clippers
LA Lakers

Playoffs:
1. San Antonio
2. Sacramento
3. Denver
4. Houston
5. Phoenix
6. Dallas
7. Seattle
8. Golden State/Utah?

With Houston's record being close to or slightly better than the Kings' record and Phoenix a game or two behind the Kings. Minnesota and LAx2 could both contend for the eighth seed too. Memphis and New Orleans are definately out and Portland could surprise and come together as a team quicker than expected. I would still say the eigth seed is best-case scenario for them. And not very likely. On paper I guess Golden State has the best chance, but they have a history of underachieving. Oh and a Seattle-Sac rematch looks intersting. I think Seattle is a better team than Dallas (still) but Dallas will end up with a better record anyway.

 

[Kings113]

Not of them are all-stars now and the Suns 3 are much better overall players that the ones you mentioned. What low post player did the kings add? SAR is a face open player. He rarely posts up.

I wouldn't say the Kings are that deep but they have enough offensively to win games as they do every year.

Losing JJ will hurt but Raja Bell can more than hold his own in replacing him. Q richardson took alot of threes, made many but missed more. They added a big man who is a much better defender who can open things up for Amare inside. So that was a good trade.

Suns may not win more regular season games but come playoff time they will be much better suited to win. Saying that they did make the conference finals. But against the Spurs, they will match up better.

It's been stated and shown many times SAR is a good inside player. Nets officials/Adelman/Petrie/SAR's agent/ESPN have spoke about it over the course of the off-season as well.

Despite adding Raja (who Manu said is one of the players he least likes to play again to his agent, who is Bell's agent) and KT, while that makes them better on defense, Spurs would still beat the Suns in a 7-game series, because they're the Spurs.