What are our future needs?

bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Where as, some people are proposing trades, or, proposing who we should draft in next years draft, and it is the DDOS. I decided to start this thread. I'm going to make some assumptions, and my desire is not to argue about my assumptions, but rather, have you accept them and then discuss what our biggest need is, and how to accomplish filling that need.

Whew! That took longer than I thought it would. Anyway, there has already been a thread started about Ricky Rubio and how a lot of people would love to draft him. Obviously, those people are assuming that our need is at the Point guard position.

So here are my assumptions. First off, Beno is going to be better than we expected. Not an all star, but a very good solid point guard. Hawes is going to become a solid center. Again, not an allstar, but more than adequate. Thompson is going to be everything we hoped he would be and Greene is going to be better than we could have hoped for. Martin will continue to be a very good offensive threat. Cisco has another year where he improves and appears to be a solid sixth man off the bench. Salmons remains Salmons. Good for 15 to 16 points and playing good defense. Bobby Brown becomes a good back up point guard.

So assuming that everything I said comes to pass, where is the position of greatest need, and how do we fill that need? Draft, trade, free agency?
 
If everything comes to pass that way then there isn't any one huge glaring need and we could go best-player-available the next couple years and hope to hit on a superstar talent, whatever the position may be.

While I am personally high on Beno, if I had to target one position it would still be PG. The reason being is that PG's can take so long to develop and many of the elite prospects are coming out so early, and several of them might not be declaring until 2010. Using NBAdraft.net as a gauge, they show only one lottery PG next year in Jennings (who is probably for sure in 2009 as he is only killing time in Europe) and a few more first rounders who are either combo guards or have more the look of solid pros than stars. By contrast, in 2010 they show PG's as three of the top four picks plus several more thoughout the first round.

If we targetted one of the top prospects in 2010 who is at the time maybe 19 years old, he could be a few years away from meaningfully contributing at that time. By the time he's ready to take over the starting spot, Beno's "maligned" five year deal may be up or in it's final year anyway.

And of course at some point we'll want a strong #3 at the 4/5 even if JT and Hawes pan out to be everything we hope. Even once Salmons is gone one way or the other, with Martin, Greene and Cisco, I can't see the 2/3 being a priority any time in the foreseeable future.
 
If we assume that everything we have ever done is just going to turn out all peachy, than obviously we have no needs.
 
It's a bit inconceivable as to how we can land a top pick to draft a PG in 2010, and it's also a tad too early to be discussing players who haven't even touched the college game yet, like John Wall and Jrue Holliday. Both are combo guards too and as much as I'm an advocate for getting homegrown talent with us, I'd prefer to strike on a younger and underrated PG via free agency then go through the rigorous process of striking it rich with the lottery balls and hoping that a combo guard prospect pans out and becomes a viable playmaker (which we are sorely lacking at this stage).
 
Well we know what we have at SG, Beno is a capable PG will he get better? we have Garcia backiup the 2 and 3 with Salmons starting and hopes that Greene pans out as the future 3 then that makes us set at those 3 positions minus a backup PG in which maybe Brown works out. we have a rookie PF and a second year C and a backup PF with Sheldon. So if they all pan out we really don't have dire need. What we NEED is for all these guys to pan out then we just work on getting solid backups in the frontcourt and another solid backup for the 2/3. Now if 1 or 2 of those guys don't pan out as a starter then maybe they can be the solid backup then our need would be for the starter. This is the phase in rebuilding where you have some pieces lined up now this season you see if they live up to your expectations and if not you focus on which position needs to be addressed again.
 
Arby's Roast Beef said:
It's a bit inconceivable as to how we can land a top pick to draft a PG in 2010, and it's also a tad too early to be discussing players who haven't even touched the college game yet, like John Wall and Jrue Holliday.
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True enough, but if everyone is so insistent that we need someone better than Beno in the future, I would suggest that's easier said than done. We'll most likely have to take a gamble on someone who isn't a sure thing but could pay off big.

There's some fluidity in who may be available in 2009 vs. 2010 and in how these guys will be rated when the time comes, but just in general 2010 looks more promising for a PG and 2009 looks more SF heavy. If we manage to liquidate a couple of our veterans for picks in the next year, I wouldn't mind going for 2010 picks to give us more ammunition in that draft. If we can't move up for one of the consensus top prospects, their presence and the shear volume of PG's may make a player slightly on the next tier available further in the draft.


Arby's Roast Beef said:
I'd prefer to strike on a younger and underrated PG via free agency
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I though that's sort of what we did with Beno. I don't know what the chances are of a young PG being both under the radar and appreciably better than Beno.
 
1. A NEW ARENA or nothing will matter except to some other city.

2. EVERYONE JELLING, gaining more experience together, including our coach.

3. SOME LUCKY BREAKS for a change in an extremely tough Western Conference.
 
Bricklayer said:
If we assume that everything we have ever done is just going to turn out all peachy, than obviously we have no needs.
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I don't completely agree. I realize that I proposed some pie in the sky, but even if everything I assume comes to pass, do you think that adds up to a team that can compete for a championship? I don't. So, what else would have to be added to become a championship contender?
 
I'm also assuming that Miller will be gone by 2010. I't seems to me that at that point we would be a little thin at the center position. So if there's a top five point guard and a top five center available to us. which one do we take?
 
bajaden said:
Where as, some people are proposing trades, or, proposing who we should draft in next years draft, and it is the DDOS. I decided to start this thread. I'm going to make some assumptions, and my desire is not to argue about my assumptions, but rather, have you accept them and then discuss what our biggest need is, and how to accomplish filling that need.

Whew! That took longer than I thought it would. Anyway, there has already been a thread started about Ricky Rubio and how a lot of people would love to draft him. Obviously, those people are assuming that our need is at the Point guard position.

So here are my assumptions. First off, Beno is going to be better than we expected. Not an all star, but a very good solid point guard. Hawes is going to become a solid center. Again, not an allstar, but more than adequate. Thompson is going to be everything we hoped he would be and Greene is going to be better than we could have hoped for. Martin will continue to be a very good offensive threat. Cisco has another year where he improves and appears to be a solid sixth man off the bench. Salmons remains Salmons. Good for 15 to 16 points and playing good defense. Bobby Brown becomes a good back up point guard.

So assuming that everything I said comes to pass, where is the position of greatest need, and how do we fill that need? Draft, trade, free agency?
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A superstar. The only way I think we can get one is to draft. Since we are a small market team it is harder to sign one and tradeing for.. one good luck.
 
AleksandarN said:
A superstar. The only way I think we can get one is to draft. Since we are a small market team it is harder to sign one and tradeing for.. one good luck.
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Nail right on the head. The likely way that we're going to get a "big draw" is through the draft...but don't rule out a trade. I believe that only Kobe has final say in where he's traded. However, we do need a superstar, but only if having one doesn't sacrifice another championship-caliber necessity, such as depth and chemistry.

Needs in the foreseeable future are easily PG and C. We don't know how Beno or Spencer's going to turn out, but as of right now, I wouldn't peg the team's future on them. And I'm high on Jason Thompson, but most folks are forseeing career averages of 12/7 for him, where the Kings need 20/10. Before I can go any further, I must say that looking at this lineup, nothing is really sacred...
 
The kings need a new GM who pulls the frickin trigga. Other than that, Petrie can sit on it. Beno is like showtime in the 80's.Seriously. Martin plays like Spreewell, but I can't find Patrick Ewing, Jr. It gets worse, Miller has no weak side D, and Spencer failed the rookie of the year test. If we were to post 1, and only one future need. It would be a Rookie of the Year, sooner rather that later.
 
still feel we need more depth at the point and a backup to the future JT and hawes when both eventually do end up starting in the next two seasons
 
FakeInjury said:
The kings need a new GM who pulls the frickin trigga. Other than that, Petrie can sit on it. Beno is like showtime in the 80's.Seriously. Martin plays like Spreewell, but I can't find Patrick Ewing, Jr. It gets worse, Miller has no weak side D, and Spencer failed the rookie of the year test. If we were to post 1, and only one future need. It would be a Rookie of the Year, sooner rather that later.
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I barely post on this site but I've been noticing that all/most of your posts are filled with a bunch of nonsense.

Or is it just me?
 
A superstar power forward, martin would be a great 2nd option..... we also need a better pg...
 
We need a superstar

It doesn't matter which position he plays as long as he can be a top 3 player at his position. If he happens to be a shooting guard, we can always trade Martin for a good player who plays another position. Superstar players are the cornerstones of a championship contending team. So, far the Kings only have one near all-star player (Martin), an above average player (Salmon), and a promising rookie (JT). That lineup is not going to get it done in the tough western conference.
 
we would need a superstar big man or pg.... i dont see how we end up with a superstar sg, who would trade us a superstar sg or even a sg better than martin? more importantly martin would probably be the best 2nd option in the league.

this team doesnt even have an identity yet... what type of team is this? they arent very athletic and they arent very good on defense. martin is good but he is lebron, wade or kobe... heprobably wont ever be the leader of the team. beno is on the same level as luke ridnour and jarret jack... that wont get it done. i like hawes, he could be just as good if not better than bynum and he'll be going head to head with oden, bynum and all of the young centers in the near future. thompson and greene are rookies, i just hope athat they get some real playing time. our bench is horrible....

so first and foremost the kings need an identity and a superstar pf to take some of the pressure off of martin and hawes... i say martin and hawes because they would compliment a superstar pf better than anyone... if the spurs had martin and hawes instead of manu and oberto the spurs would have gone to the finals.....
 
AriesMar27 said:
we would need a superstar big man or pg.... i dont see how we end up with a superstar sg, who would trade us a superstar sg or even a sg better than martin? more importantly martin would probably be the best 2nd option in the league.

this team doesnt even have an identity yet... what type of team is this? they arent very athletic and they arent very good on defense. martin is good but he is lebron, wade or kobe... heprobably wont ever be the leader of the team. beno is on the same level as luke ridnour and jarret jack... that wont get it done. i like hawes, he could be just as good if not better than bynum and he'll be going head to head with oden, bynum and all of the young centers in the near future. thompson and greene are rookies, i just hope athat they get some real playing time. our bench is horrible....

so first and foremost the kings need an identity and a superstar pf to take some of the pressure off of martin and hawes... i say martin and hawes because they would compliment a superstar pf better than anyone... if the spurs had martin and hawes instead of manu and oberto the spurs would have gone to the finals.....
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I agree that the team doesn't yet have an identity. I do however believe that team took steps toward becoming more athletic. Thompson, Greene, and Brown are all athletic. When you get right down to it, Beno is more athletic than Bibby was. Hawes is certainly an improvement over Miller in the athleticism dept. As a matter of fact, Hawes vertical jump and 3/4 court speed were almost the same as Durant's, and Durant is considered a pretty good athlete. Salmons is a pretty good athlete, and Cisco is at least average if not slightly above average.

Beyond all the players I just mentioned, I don't care. Being a good athlete in of itself doesn't win you anything. But if all these players mentioned reach our expectations, I think we'll have a pretty good team. A championship team? Something tells me not quite. Who knows what the future holds? Lets fantasize for a moment, and lets say, forgetting the numbers, we trade Martin, Miller, Cisco and two first round draft picks for Wade and change to make it work. Would that be enough to get us over the top?
 
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Realistically, I'd like to wait and see how Hawes, Thompson and Greene develop before declaring our needs. But what's the fun in that?

First I'll assume Miller, Moore, SAR, K9 and Salmons all go away, Jackson retires and K-Mart maintains his current level. I'll also assume we've seen the best of Cisco and Douby.

Based on pure tempered, not-going overboard, scenario assumptions let's say, Beno and Hawes become middle-of-the-road, good but not great role players, Thompson becomes a legitment force in the paint, a solid scoring option down low and reliable 15 and 8 guy, and Greene becomes an electric if streeky athletic scorer.

I say, if we throw in those four as our starters with their above stated hypothetical attributes along with Martin, we're at best a six or five seed and suffering from the same problem we had during the Miller, Bibby, Artest/Peja experiment of no "go-to" guy headless monster.

In order the Kings to be a legit contender, at least one of the four (prefereably two though) need to be bench guys (along with Cisco) and be replaced with All-Star level, or near it, talent.

Of course, it's really easy to just say "We need a superstar" ... but I think we can let our current talent develop a little to see if we already have one in the making.
 
Smills91 said:
We need a #1 scoring option in the post, a superstar if you will a la Chris Webber?
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Totally agree.. It's so much easier for the jump shooters (you wont have to live or die by the three) if they had a post presence that can pass from low/double team. Think of what Martin could do if that were the case. Remember what Peja did when Vlade was our main post option? 25ppg? That's why I like Hawes/Thompson combo. Both of them can do the inside out thing, and I believe that will open up a lot more open shots for Martin, and the lane should be opened for him as well to drive to the rim.
 
Well, according to this guy who thinks we'll be straddling right along mediocrity yet again with a 40-42 projected record (and 4th-5th place in the West), we just need a marquee free agent.
 
bajaden said:
I agree that the team doesn't yet have an identity. I do however believe that team took steps toward becoming more athletic. Thompson, Greene, and Brown are all athletic. When you get right down to it, Beno is more athletic than Bibby was. Hawes is certainly an improvement over Miller in the athleticism dept. As a matter of fact, Hawes vertical jump and 3/4 court speed were almost the same as Durant's, and Durant is considered a pretty good athlete. Salmons is a pretty good athlete, and Cisco is at least average if not slightly above average.

Beyond all the players I just mentioned, I don't care. Being a good athlete in of itself doesn't win you anything. But if all these players mentioned reach our expectations, I think we'll have a pretty good team. A championship team? Something tells me not quite. Who knows what the future holds? Lets fantasize for a moment, and lets say, forgetting the numbers, we trade Martin, Miller, Cisco and two first round draft picks for Wade and change to make it work. Would that be enough to get us over the top?
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durant half@ssed it... but we dont have anyone that you could classify as athletic... beno isnt much compared to any reasonably athletic pg. and though i like hawes he isnt on the same level as perkins or bynum in terms of athleticism.... i dont know about greene or thompson...
 
AriesMar27 said:
durant half@ssed it... but we dont have anyone that you could classify as athletic... beno isnt much compared to any reasonably athletic pg. and though i like hawes he isnt on the same level as perkins or bynum in terms of athleticism.... i dont know about greene or thompson...
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So if Hawes has the same results in the combine as another player thats susposed to be athletic, you simply discard that info by saying that the other player half@ssed it. With that logic, I could prove a lot of points. You don't know anything about Thompson or Greene, so you just discard them as well. Bravo! Well done there. Just ignore anything that disproves your point and plod on with your theory. And Salmons, who is obviously athletic, just don't mention him.

Does the term closed mind sound familiar. Athleticism is overrated anyway. Don't get me wrong. I think its great to have a athletic player that is also skilled. But an athletic player with no skills is worthless. Does Justin Williams come to mind.

How about, Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Robert Parrish, Dennis Johnson, Danny Ainge, Scott Wedman, Bill Walton, Jerry Sichting, and Greg Kite. I wouldn't call them most athletic group I've ever seen. Maybe Dennis Johnson would be considered very athletic by todays standards. But they were good enough to win a couple of world championships. Why? Because they were very skilled.
 
AriesMar27 said:
durant half@ssed it... but we dont have anyone that you could classify as athletic... beno isnt much compared to any reasonably athletic pg. and though i like hawes he isnt on the same level as perkins or bynum in terms of athleticism.... i dont know about greene or thompson...
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I would take a real basketball player over an athlete any day of the week if I wanted to build a team. Durant didn't half *** it on the bench press.. The kid was always considered REAL weak since high school... That's his biggest enemy right now. He needs to grow up a bit.. But he does have talent.

^^^^
Bajaden, you forgot about Steve Nash :D
 
durant definitely cant bench that much.... he's a twig.... but if you think that hawes is as fast and can jump as high as durant you guys are nuts... durant ran a 3.45 and oden ran a 3.27.... do you honestly think that durant is that slow... and his vertical was horrible too, but ive seen him get some serious air. at the combine he was ranked 78 out of 81 yi jianlian was 81 because he didnt do anything...

and i didnt say that i wanted a bunch of athletic players with no skills... but we have a bunch of 2nd class players with little athleticism.... that hasnt gotten us very far in the past 4 years... you guys want players that play in the post and finish around the basket but those traits come with athleticism.... martin can be lebron,wade or kobe because he lacks their physical traits. hawes has all the skills in the world but wont be able to take advantage of it because he is too weak to establish position in the post. beno is whack... period... he'd be a great back up to a real pg.

name one superstar in the nba not named steve nash or yao ming(dude is too tall to be very athletic) that is unathletic... injured players dont count, they were athletic before their injury and are probably more athletic than any player on our team.
 
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1. NBA players are athletic by nature. Its hard to say that any NBA player is not an athlete.

2. Kevin Martin is Kevin Martin, and I think thats just fine. Kobe was quoted earlier this summer saying he likes Kevin game, alot.

3. Durant is 21, give him a chance to grow up. who cares about durant?????

4. 1 unathletic NBA superstar = TONY PARKER
 
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