WCS willing to change roles?

[bajaden]

This is not "In perspective". WCS is in year 3 meaning he is still nowhere near a finished product vs Imo the best big in the league. Now don't get confused with me thinking WCS is something that he's not. He's a role player athletic big but I also don't want to put a glass ceiling on him we want to get the most out of him so he's not a one dimensional player.

Yeah, it's apples and oranges. Willie will never be Cousins. Two entirely different kind of players. I think Willie can be a decent to good rebounder depending on how he's used. Cousins is a great Iso player and I don't see Willie ever being a great Iso player. But I do think that Willie can be double/double guy that players good defense and averages 4 or 5 assists a game. Willie is a very good passer, and doesn't turn the ball over very much. Until this last game Willie averaged a little over 8 boards a game. Not outstanding, but an improvement.

Lets see what happens when the team becomes comfortable with the offense and the rotations. Everything should look a little more efficient after 25 games, and perhaps Joerger will have his rotation down by that time.

 

[sono]

The guy who wrote the post game report on StR had the nerve to say that Willie had a good game the other night. Not sure what he was watching.

What I watched was Cousins missing a hook shot. The ball came right to Willie and Willie grabbed the rebound. Then Cousins just reached over, pulled the ball out of his hands and went up and scored with it. That play was basically a microcosm of his matchup against Cousins. One guy is a bull and the other just kind of flutters around, taking what he can get.

A scavenger?

 

[John Galt]

Just got back from the game. If we come back from the 3 game trip, and WCS is playing the same way (not even 20-10, just a solid double-double guy busting ass on defense), I will admit I was wrong and say I'm sorry.

I felt WCS was a huge x-factor for us. If he can consistently give us 75% of what we saw tonight, I'm good.

well, so much for that. damn

1) 20-10
2) Double Double
3) crap
4) crap
5) crap
6) crap
7) crap
8) crap

A lot of our embarrassing blowout losses are, imo, Willie's fault because he sucks. He and Buddy both should come off the bench and play against second unit guys - and the Kings need to look in a different direction at C/PF.

 

[Larry David]

Shocking a guy with focus and effort issues got fired up for the home opener and to faces Cousins on national TV but promptly went back to his norm.

I think it’s unlikely he develops into a starter on a very good team.

Plus, I think it’s probably unlikely that he becomes a high quality reserve here. Perhaps after starting over in another city, but not here. I don’t think Willie is self aware or smart enough to go from: high pick and assumed he would now be starter here; to 7th man for the same franchise. In another city, he might try to prove us wrong off a bench. Here, he’s sure he’s good enough to start and pissed at the coach and franchise.

 

[upinsmoke]

WCS is 24 years old. What you have to ask is when he's 26/27 would he be worth the investment. I say yes personally. He's sharpening his skills out there even if there is obviously room for improvement.

 

[allrightythen]

WCS is 24 years old. What you have to ask is when he's 26/27 would he be worth the investment. I say yes personally. He's sharpening his skills out there even if there is obviously room for improvement.

It's clear to me that he works hard and is improving his skills. His shot has improved, he's added post moves and he seems to be in shape. My concern is that he doesn't consistently show the instincts or tenacity and use those skills to make plays on the court. He'll do it here and there and even have a good game now and then, but I haven't seen any indication that he'll display those skills with any regularity.

 

[John Galt]

It's clear to me that he works hard and is improving his skills. His shot has improved, he's added post moves and he seems to be in shape. My concern is that he doesn't consistently show the instincts or tenacity and use those skills to make plays on the court. He'll do it here and there and even have a good game now and then, but I haven't seen any indication that he'll display those skills with any regularity.

Fire
Drive
Motor

All lacking.. very badly and conspicuously.

 

[allrightythen]

Fire
Drive
Motor

All lacking.. very badly and conspicuously.

I think that's a little unfair. Clearly there is something driving him to work on his game because he has added skills and that requires a lot of work and drive. On the court there is something missing. I don't know if he's thinking his way through the game or lacks some natural aggressiveness or whatever, but he doesn't play with the energy that the team needs from him.

 

[Hoovtrain]

I'd like his role to be changed to productive NBA big man...but at this point I will take a role as an NBA player who can actually box out

 

[JCTNKINGFAN]

Yeah, it's apples and oranges. Willie will never be Cousins. Two entirely different kind of players. I think Willie can be a decent to good rebounder depending on how he's used. Cousins is a great Iso player and I don't see Willie ever being a great Iso player. But I do think that Willie can be double/double guy that players good defense and averages 4 or 5 assists a game. Willie is a very good passer, and doesn't turn the ball over very much. Until this last game Willie averaged a little over 8 boards a game. Not outstanding, but an improvement.

Lets see what happens when the team becomes comfortable with the offense and the rotations. Everything should look a little more efficient after 25 games, and perhaps Joerger will have his rotation down by that time.

A voice of reason? Surely, that is not welcome here (I need a sarcasm font). Right now, everybody sucks which makes everybody else look bad, no team work, no offensive structure, no defensive rotations, I am assuming that these are growing pains. I expect to see crappy play for at least the first half of the season and then after that, maybe we will start to see some small incremental improvement. Joerger keeps talking about 2 years down the road. Nobody is providing consistent play, not even the veterans. Willie has a lot of room for improvement, but he has worked on a lot of skills and you can see flashes of that. You could single out just about any player for constant criticism if you wanted to, but, Willie is an easy target because he is a different dude, dresses "funny", the hair, he's artistic, very laid back. His critics generally like to get in little digs at those things, attack his character, say he is lazy when all reports are that he is a hard worker. Things like that. I commented a while back that he was going to be the whipping boy this year and was called out about it, so that is all I have to say about that. People are going to need a lot of patience with this team, some people may not survive and maybe that is not such a bad thing. I know the forum is so full of negativity it almost seems malicious and I am getting to where I visit less and less.

 

[Kingster]

I think that's a little unfair. Clearly there is something driving him to work on his game because he has added skills and that requires a lot of work and drive. On the court there is something missing. I don't know if he's thinking his way through the game or lacks some natural aggressiveness or whatever, but he doesn't play with the energy that the team needs from him.

He had to be shamed into "going outside of his area" to rebound. I think that was a red flag. He just doesn't hustle enough on the court.

 

[Larry David]

Clearly there is something driving him to work on his game because he has added skills and that requires a lot of work and drive.

I’m sure he wants to succeed for achievements sake, pride, ect. I’d say a large aspect of what drives Willie is money. Players want to play because in the mind of many players, minutes can lead to stats which can lead to millions.

Players talk about wanting to win, but let’s be honest, WSC is closer to earning a decent second contract than playing a key role on a title team. A lot of players frankly are mostly concerned about the second contract and WCS strikes me as more focused on whether 20 and 10 will get him a boat than say whether always executing a defensive rotation will make him attractive to teams that want play him 80% of market to go for a ring. But, that’s pure speculation.

My overall point is, you don’t like Willie’s focus, effort and commitment now? Just wait until he’s got the security of his second contract.

This is why a lot of players plateau

 

[allrightythen]

I’m sure he wants to succeed for achievements sake, pride, ect. I’d say a large aspect of what drives Willie is money. Players want to play because in the mind of many players, minutes can lead to stats which can lead to millions.

Players talk about wanting to win, but let’s be honest, WSC is closer to earning a decent second contract than playing a key role on a title team. A lot of players frankly are mostly concerned about the second contract and WCS strikes me as more focused on whether 20 and 10 will get him a boat than say whether always executing a defensive rotation will make him attractive to teams that want play him 80% of market to go for a ring. But, that’s pure speculation.

My overall point is, you don’t like Willie’s focus, effort and commitment now? Just wait until he’s got the security of his second contract.

This is why a lot of players plateau

Maybe you're right. I don't know what's going on in his head or what motivates him but I'm not ready to give an extension at this point regardless.

 

[John Galt]

I think that's a little unfair. Clearly there is something driving him to work on his game because he has added skills and that requires a lot of work and drive. On the court there is something missing. I don't know if he's thinking his way through the game or lacks some natural aggressiveness or whatever, but he doesn't play with the energy that the team needs from him.

I deny that it is unfair. What is unfair about it. I trade him for Okafor and hope a change of scenery helps both guys - but for us he has about 5 turd games for every good game.

 

[Kingster]

One thing that bothered me in a WCS interview about three weeks ago was when he was asked a question about using his speed to get down the court on fast breaks, his response was that it depended on whether the guards "felt like" giving him the ball on those breaks. The meaning in his words, tone, and facial expression was that he was unhappy with the guards not giving him the ball when he in his own mind hustled down the court. This view of his is contradicted by the fact that he just hasn't beaten guys down the floor so far this season, period. If he has done so, then I've missed it, and I've tried to pay careful attention to this part of game. I'm asking a serious question to those on the board, not a rhetorical question: Has anybody seen him just outrun the opposition down the court? In the last game I saw Koufos of all people racing down the floor, beating the opposition, getting a nice pass from Fox and laying the ball in the basket. I also saw Jackson beat the Celtics down the floor and getting a pass from Fox; he didn't attempt the shot at the basket because he felt the presence of Tatum just behind him.

 

[Kingster]

One last comment on WCS, and on George Papagiannis. In the last game I saw WCS being "rooted out" of position by Tatum, who grabbed the rebound. The Kings will be playing against Detroit with Drummond who can rebound the heck out of the ball. If WCS has a problem in holding position against Tatum, good luck against Drummond. Isn't it time to award Papa some court time against Drummond? A lot of people have talked about the mobile, faster WCS being the complement to the stronger Cousins. Well, Papa is pretty strong, certainly without Cousins' offensive skill, but the mobility of WCS and the strength of Papa might be worth trying out against Drummond, don't you think? What have we got to lose?

 

[ESP47]

It depends on what you're after. Developing Papa or contending in games? Even a 4pt 4reb performance from WCS is better than an 8pt 8reb performance from Papa because of the things that WCS does that don't show up in the box score. Papa is green so he's going to give up a ton of easy buckets. He's going to be out of place more often than he's in place and he's going to stall the offense even worse than it is. So if you want him out there developing, then put him in but if your idea is to compete better, he's not going to be better than WCS regardless of how weak WCS decides to play that game.

If the team was performing a bit better, I'd say throw in Papa for some stretches but they're already so bad that it's really not a good environment for him to come in to and it's not a good environment for the other new guys to have to now play with a guy who is even worse at basketball than they are. It's a fine line. I think he should spend more time in the D League until someone gets hurt or until the team gels a bit better and is more conducive to developmental basketball rather than the soul crushing basketball that these guys are currently experiencing.

 

[allrightythen]

I deny that it is unfair. What is unfair about it. I trade him for Okafor and hope a change of scenery helps both guys - but for us he has about 5 turd games for every good game.

As I said before, he has clearly worked hard on his game and added skills and elements that he didn't have when he was drafted. That doesn't happen if he doesn't have some amount of fire and drive to succeed. I can agree that he doesn't always play with the energy we need from him. I'm not apposed to trading him and I want to see more from him before he gets a big extension. I wouldn't trade him for Okafor, I don't think that helps us at all.

 

[Larry David]

As I said before, he has clearly worked hard on his game and added skills and elements that he didn't have when he was drafted.

He has more skills, he's just not a very good basketball player based upon his drive, focus, basketball IQ, level of self awareness, ect on the court in games or practice. To me, his issues aren't skill based or at this point having anything to do with inexperience.

 

[allrightythen]

He has more skills, he's just not a very good basketball player based upon his drive, focus, basketball IQ, level of self awareness, ect on the court in games or practice. To me, his issues aren't skill based or at this point having anything to do with inexperience.

You watch practice?

 

[Larry David]

You watch practice?

I'm watching you practice avoiding a point by picking a nits that is both non-material but reasonably supported by logical inferences.

 

[allrightythen]

I'm watching you practice avoiding a point by picking a nits that is both non-material but reasonably supported by logical inferences.

I was seriously curious if you had actually seen practice.

I'm avoiding a point that is strictly an opinion. Drive, IQ, and self awareness are all immeasurable qualities in a basketball player. They require understanding personality and life circumstance and motivation and I'm not really into trying to psych-analyze a guy with what little access I might have of him as a fan.

 

[Kingsfan23]

As I said before, he has clearly worked hard on his game and added skills and elements that he didn't have when he was drafted. That doesn't happen if he doesn't have some amount of fire and drive to succeed. I can agree that he doesn't always play with the energy we need from him. I'm not apposed to trading him and I want to see more from him before he gets a big extension. I wouldn't trade him for Okafor, I don't think that helps us at all.

He came into the league with a good jump shot - search his pre draft workout shooting video on YouTube by draftexpress. He even flashed good three point shooting in it.

I think there are two separate issues. He has a healthy self confidence which can lead him to want to perfect offensive skill sets etc on his own program, but his work rate/motor, which is also innate and beyond his conscious control, unfortunately lacks

 

[allrightythen]

I really liked Willie when he was drafted because he was a good fit with Cousins. Damarcus was a physical post player and rebounder while Willie had length and quickness to bother PFs and chase perimeter players. Now that Demarcus is gone we have Willie trying to provide some of what Cousins did which is not his game at all. Post play has never been his strength on either end and yet that's his primary role now. What made/makes him unique iss his mobility for his size and he is at his best when he's moving. I think he is too passive at times, but I also think we are asking him to play a role not suited at all to his strengths. In that vein I also think he's a poor fit for this roster now, especially in the role he's being asked to play.

 

[NewArena]

He’s honestly a lesser version of Mikki Moore to me and I’m not joking. I’m not impressed even when he puts up nice stats

He isn’t someone i can see being a key piece for us moving forward.

 

[ppine]

Willie has plenty of skills, but he glides around like his mind is somehwere else.

 

[jcassio]

Giving up on him at this point is wasteful and short-sighted.
He's got the tools to be a double-double guy and the anchor of our defense. But he can't seem to put it all together and find any consistency.
I've been saying I wish he would simplify his game. By that I mean - for example - pick three things he can do well in every game. How about 8 pts, 8 rebounds and 1 block per game for starters? Once that becomes habitual, bump it up to 10+10+2. By the end of his 4th year, he could be at 12+12+3. Not a bad trajectory if it includes consistency.

 

[VF21]

I will, once again, bring up the ghost of #3 - Gerald "Crash" Wallace.

 

[dude12]

Between WCS and Skal, one of these dudes has to pull some boards.

 

[ppine]

At this point Willie should be the team 's leading rebounder. He should be playing some excellent defense every night. His offense comes and goes but that is not really how he made it to this League. If Willie can't pick up his rebounding and defense he is going to be selling hats full time.