Voisin: Webber's wounded knee is huge concern

50pts · Oct 12, 2004

vladetomiller said:

I see, well i hope those people dont think i am trying to "bash" Webber cause im not...dont have nothing against him really except i wish he would cost less and get injured less but hey in a perfect world we would all be millionaires. yes i can see many people here a very big Webber fans. i guess im not too attached to any player so my opinion is more about what i think is best for the kings. Maybe if Webber leaves some of the diehard we supporters won’t really like the kings all that much so they are very defensive about that idea and paranoid that everyone is against webber.

Kingsgurl · Oct 13, 2004

Sigh, I really thought we were talking about Voisin here, not really Webber. Her job is a columnist, to state her opinions, sell papers. She's very good at it. However; she isn't a reporter. This isn't some conspiracy. If Marty Mac or Mark Kriedler printed the same thing, I'd believe it, given the circumstances.

Vlad · Oct 13, 2004

vladetomiller said:

I absolutely agree, Webber has the most vocal fans on this board. Any negativity toward any aspect of Webber is met with fierce rebuttal, almost to the point where you feel slightly intimidated to bring up even the mildest criticism.

When Webb gets criticized, people get very defensive, and sometimes even turn on peja. (for example, the claim that peja's trade demand was partly caused by Webber's comments this summer will generate dozens of rebukes on this board... mainly about how peja should just suck it up and play, stop being soft, show up in the playoffs, etc.) I don't know exactly why people are so sensitive to criticism of Webber. Maybe his fans are just tired of hearing the media trash him over and over.

vj9999 · Oct 13, 2004

Honestly most people are just Kings fans and not any particular player fans. People seem to go through phases here on who is a scape goat. Webber has been under alot of fire (justified and unjustified) and people are getting fed up with it. That's why they defend him. They know and recognize his ability and potential and you have to become defensive when people are picking on him just because he is Chris Webber. Peja was in a safe boat until he brought it onto himself with his late playoff peromance and post season trade demands.

Too bad all the old messages and theads are gone. Back in January, Doug Christie was a scapegoat for a while (since you couldn't pick on Webber) and people were all ready to unload him.

This is not Webberfans.com or Pejafans.com or bibbyfans.com(althought that sound like a site my wiffe would visit

) . It is kingsfans.com and people are protective of their Kings. And in reality, CWebb is our most prized/ valued asset so might as well let him show what he has left in him before we criticize him.

Geoff · Oct 13, 2004

So what is the history between Voisin and Adelman? When i started to follow the Kings, i got most of my news from the Bee's sport section and noticed the negativity coming from her. The other columnists seemed straight up (Kreidler, Scott-Cooper, Breton, et al) but she always seemed to be on those guys case. I also joined the Bee's forum, bad move. I have never seen so much bad-mindedness in one place, or such negativity towards their own player! I honestly thought all Sacramento fans were just one huge bunch of whiners from my experience on that board.

CWebb isn't above criticism, no one is. However, what he went through last year went beyond criticism, it was irrational ragging and unfair blame proportioned onto him. Things weren't obviously good after he returned and he had a part to play in it but there were MANY other factors besides him. The impression that this non-local fan got was that Voisin and like-minded Sacramentoans were blaming him for everything that went wrong after his return and to me that was a totally illogical and stupid thing to do. I almost wished he WOULD leave, and see where it would get them. No one deserves that kind of treatment, and I dare anyone to name any other NBA player who has had to put up with that kind of stuff recently from his own fans.

LMM · Oct 13, 2004

Vlad said:

--people get defensive when the criticism is not necessary, or when the criticism is because of obvious hatred for webb that it gets ridiculous and exaggerated..

--people blamed webb for peja not producing well in the playoffs, for peja wanting a trade, and for basically whatever is wrong with the kings.. that's just not fair.. webber gets all the blame.. peja always had a pass (up until the "i want to be traded" thing)..

Vlad said:

shouldn't he just suck it up and play, and show up in the playoffs?

--i do not agree that the mildest criticism of webber will be met with fierce rebuttal.. people just want to have an argument which will remain civil, and will not result to name-calling. (ie --"webb is cancer") some people just look at all the negatives in webb and never even considers his positives..

--for people who support webb because he is a king, it gets tiring to hear people say he's worthless, he should be traded, etc, after a season where he was playing hurt.. and maybe the fans are just tired of hearing the media, and some other kingsfans trash him over and over again.. the criticism he got was beyond what was necessary.. it just doesn't seem fair sometimes..

VF21 · Oct 13, 2004

Great comments, LMM...

I'll add just a bit.

I've been a Kings fan since 1985. I love this team! All of them.

When people try to point fingers and make it sound as though the whole team failed solely because of Webber, or solely because of Adelman, or solely because of Pedja, I get angry. Why? Because basketball is a TEAM sport. It takes teamwork; it takes cohesion; it takes skill; and it takes luck.

We, the fans, want reasons when our team fails to meet our expectations. We look for the easy answers. The truth is, in most cases anyway, there are no easy answers. It's combinations of things like injuries at the worst possible moment, player slumps, maybe a lapse in judgment in a key moment, etc. There are a lot of factors.

When I said "suck it up and play" in my rantings earlier this summer, I meant everyone. I was tired of the drama back then and I'm really sick and tired of it now.

In addition, as far as player bashing goes, it just isn't what Kingsfans is all about. Criticism is one thing and Webber has more than earned a certain amount of it, both on and off the court. So has Pedja. But to come onto this board and BASH a player time after time after time isn't what we're here for and it's going to be dealt with. Kingsfans has been around a long time and one reason is because of the variety of opinions expressed, debated, argued, etc. All that can be done without resorting to name-calling, personal attacks against players or other board members, etc.

The new season is about to start. For me, a long time fan, I'm filled with the same hopes and expectations I have every year about this time. Maybe, just maybe, this will be THE YEAR... There was a time those hopes and expectations were dashed by late November; now I actually have fun after the New Year, still filled with hope and expectations. And sometimes a lot longer than that. After the All-Star break is a special treat. After mid-April is pure euphoria!

GO KINGS!!!

50pts · Oct 13, 2004

Vlad said:

yes im starting to notice that the more i read the posts here.Also noticed that those who defend webber so much are the first to critisize peja....its as if you can either be on webbers side or pejas side....kinda funny if you ask me.

Mr. S£im Citrus · Oct 13, 2004

Vlad said:

This makes me laugh, and leads me to suspect that you haven't been here very long; anybody who thinks that Webber's fans are the most vocal on this board did not get to see "Eurofan" in his heyday. Hell, even Jason Williams' fans were more vocal than Webber's fans... the only difference is that the opposition is more divided against Webber than it was against Williams.

You and I clearly have different definitions of "fierce," as I have never seen a poster calling another post a name, simply for not liking Webber, whereas I have seen posters call other posters names simply for liking Webber, or not liking Stojakovic, or thinking that Adelman is a good coach, even to the point where several European posters have resorted to swearing at other posters in their native languages.

We're clearly looking at things from different sides of the argument, but to me, Stojakovic/Euro fans and Webber haters are, by far, both more vocal and more intensely perjorative than Webber supporters are.

Heuge · Oct 13, 2004

50pts said:

Could it be because they, being those who tend to defend CWebb and criticize Pedja, are defending the team? We are stuck with Webber (for better or for worse). The Kings go as far as he takes them. He has stated that he wants to win a championship, here, in Sacramento. Pedja made the ultimate mistake in Sacto. He asked for a trade- he wanted out and still does.

50pts · Oct 13, 2004

Heuge said:

so by defending what Webber you are defending the team? are you saying the team is webber? just asking...cause i cant see your point.

in terms of peja what can i say...if he doesn’t want to be here maybe he should be traded. But as a player i think he is very valuable and has allot of upside. If he is going to be traded make it for someone good.

But here we go again...peja made the ultimate mistake..ok perhaps he did....but people could say webber made many ultimate mistakes...ill just say one thing when your team looses the last thing you do is start pointing fingers at other team mates...that is a big mistake...that goes for nay level of basketball and any team sport. If you are a leader and a team player and you have to point fingers then point them at your self otherwise put your head down and "suck it up and play".

50pts · Oct 13, 2004

Mr. S£im Citrus said:

This makes me laugh, and leads me to suspect that you haven't been here very long; anybody who thinks that Webber's fans are the most vocal on this board did not get to see "Eurofan" in his heyday. Hell, even Jason Williams' fans were more vocal than Webber's fans... the only difference is that the opposition is more divided against Webber than it was against Williams.

You and I clearly have different definitions of "fierce," as I have never seen a poster calling another post a name, simply for not liking Webber, whereas I have seen posters call other posters names simply for liking Webber, or not liking Stojakovic, or thinking that Adelman is a good coach, even to the point where several European posters have resorted to swearing at other posters in their native languages.

We're clearly looking at things from different sides of the argument, but to me, Stojakovic/Euro fans and Webber haters are, by far, both more vocal and more intensely perjorative than Webber supporters are.

ok another division!

Euro fans VS American fans. When will the divisions stop?

Heuge · Oct 13, 2004

50pts said:

I am saying that if Webber stinks this year we are not a championship contender. If he plays well, we are. In that respect I guess you can say "he is the team", though that isn't nor will it ever be how I word it.

I dont like what Webber said in the interview. I can live with it.
Pedja, on the other hand wanted out of Sacto. I can not live with that. (Until he says, "OK, I want to stay and win a championship in Sacto.")

Mr. S£im Citrus · Oct 13, 2004

50pts said:

Are you implying that I made it up?

Heuge · Oct 13, 2004

FYI- I would not consider myself a Webber supporter or a Pejda hater.
I consider myself a Kings fan.
I want them both to do well while in uniform.

VF21 · Oct 13, 2004

Heuge said:

There you go.

50pts · Oct 14, 2004

Mr. S£im Citrus said:

im implying it doesnt exsist

50pts · Oct 14, 2004

Heuge said:

agreed[font=&quot][/font]

Mr. S£im Citrus · Oct 14, 2004

50pts said:

Oh yeah... definitely new. If you think that a division between American fans and European fans "doesn't exist," then you haven't been around very long... heck, you haven't even been here since the start of the Olympics.

KingKong · Oct 14, 2004

Mr. S£im Citrus said:

It definately does exist, and being neither an Amerian or a Euro I find it truly sad that it does.

Voisin: Webber's wounded knee is huge concern

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