Tyreke should mold himself after Andre Igoudala

[jcwkings]

So I think the Tyreke as our PG experiment is basically over. With Cousins getting better and better, the offense, at least half court wise, will run through him more and more. I think Cousins and Isiah(or whoever our starting pg is), can really develop a deadly pick and roll/ pick and pop combination.

Tyreke should really mold himself after an Andre Igoudala. Tyreke has the tools to be a GREAT man and team defender. He like Igoudala is deadly in the open floor. With this team becoming a running team, Tyreke still has a big part to play in getting us easy buckets in the fastbreak(where he excels). I think it will help Tyreke alot, if he knows he can be agressive on the break, with his size, strenth and speed, he could become a really good slasher in half court sets.

so imo Tyreke should become our defensive stopper/ guy that runs it down the throat of the other team/ a slasher in the half court game.

Imagine Cousins getting attention in the post/high post, and Tyreke learns to really make some sharp slashes/cuts to the rim.

 

[rainmaker]

I think Reke is confused. And I think this stuff goes on behind closed doors with the Kings. Reke should do this, he shouldn't do that. He can do this, he can't do that. He should play here, no lets put him over there. He's a pg, no he's a sf. He's a pg and was born with the ball in his hands, no actually he's an off the ball catch and shoot sf.

I think Brick brought this type of thing up before. I agree.

 

[king4life89]

Pintue chicharito u sucked today!!

 

[cuad]

I agree.

 

[jcwkings]

Pintue chicharito u sucked today!!

yeah they were terrible, chicharito had no service. Barrera and Gio Dos Santos looked like they haven't played in months...oh wait yeah they havent played in months

 

[ppine]

I agree with the thread except for one thing, you think Evans should play the 2 shooting guard. The problem with that is that he can't shoot. How about the late 3 he launched against Utah? Not even close at a crucial moment. The reason Evans gets so much advice is, they can't figure out where to put him. He is not a 1, can't shoot well enough to be the 2, and a little small for the 3. In a game of specialists, he is a generalist. He needs a guy like Larry Bird to teach how to shoot 1,000 times a day all year, develop a left hand, and play defense every time down the floor.

 

[Kingster]

Intriguing comparison. Andre isn't exactly the greatest shooter in the world, either. But you know what you're going to get from him in defense and rebounding evey night. And he's a terror on the fast break. Tyreke could do worse than model himself after Iggy.

 

[IfAt1st]

I agree with the thread except for one thing, you think Evans should play the 2 shooting guard. The problem with that is that he can't shoot. How about the late 3 he launched against Utah? Not even close at a crucial moment.

Agreed.

Seriously, until he learns to shoot, his game is limited. It's like he's in a straitjacket, wanting to fly, and his shooting is keeping him down.

I would really like to know just how bad his shooting has gotten this year - anyone got reliable stats for his jumpshots outside of the paint this year? I can't remember a handful of shots he's made outside of layups in weeks.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Tyreke is much deadlier off the bounce than Iggy is. Plus, Iggy is a high-flying athlete while Tyreke is not. Bad comparison

 

[jcwkings]

Tyreke is much deadlier off the bounce than Iggy is. Plus, Iggy is a high-flying athlete while Tyreke is not. Bad comparison

I wasn't saying he should be an Iggy clone obviously, im saying his game should be very similar. Yes Iggy is much more athletic than Tyreke, but Tyreke makes up for that in quickness, better handle on the ball, Tyreke like Iggy is deadly in the open floor, both are/could be great defenders, both have the strenght quickness to be good slashers in the half court game, both have below average jumpshots. They have more in common than you think.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

I wasn't saying he should be an Iggy clone obviously, im saying his game should be very similar. Yes Iggy is much more athletic than Tyreke, but Tyreke makes up for that in quickness, better handle on the ball, Tyreke like Iggy is deadly in the open floor, both are/could be great defenders, both have the strenght quickness to be good slashers in the half court game, both have below average jumpshots. They have more in common than you think.

But that athletic and length disparity makes all the difference in terms of playing style. Iggy's athleticism allows him to go backdoor for lobs, sky for offensive rebounds, and otherwise play off the ball in a way that Tyreke is just physically unable to do. Same thing on defense.

Whereas Tyreke's much better with the ball in his hands. The Kings need to do a better job of finding him in one on one situations in motion because he's shown to be absolutely devastating there as opposed to having to do everything in isolation with the defense set. The Sixers don't really center their offense around Iggy, and it would be foolish for the Kings to do the same with Evans.

 

[ovrush]

This is rediculous. Tyreke is a point guard. I know everyone is excited he isn't playing point guard at the moment so they can say SEE I was right! That doesn't change the fact that his ballhandling/passing/ability to break down a deense are completely superior to guys like AI2. Just because he doesn't know how to set and run an offense after two years of incompetant coaching as a 22 year old doesn't mean you suddenly turn him into an undersized 3 who isn't a tremendous shooter, or an average sized 2 who isn't used to playing off ball.

The other part about this that stinks is that the first half of our season was just brutal, so with a better coach, and a significantly easier schedule, we'll show improvement in wins and losses even though we're stunting the growth of one of our two star caliber players. Making Tyreke anything other than a PG is shortsighted, and I'm not even sure it helps you win now.

I like IT a lot, but he's better suited long term to be a sinxth man energy guy.

Let's really get to what people are really saying in this thread... they don't think Tyreke's game is suited to the NBA and they don't want him on the team. If he isn't a 1, then he's just not much use to your team. Those people would just assume give Tyreke away for a draft pick and move the rebuild back a couple years while hoping we get lucky and get a second star level player to pair with Demarcus.

 

[Glenn]

This is rediculous. Tyreke is a point guard. I know everyone is excited he isn't playing point guard at the moment so they can say SEE I was right! That doesn't change the fact that his ballhandling/passing/ability to break down a deense are completely superior to guys like AI2. Just because he doesn't know how to set and run an offense after two years of incompetant coaching as a 22 year old doesn't mean you suddenly turn him into an undersized 3 who isn't a tremendous shooter, or an average sized 2 who isn't used to playing off ball.

The other part about this that stinks is that the first half of our season was just brutal, so with a better coach, and a significantly easier schedule, we'll show improvement in wins and losses even though we're stunting the growth of one of our two star caliber players. Making Tyreke anything other than a PG is shortsighted, and I'm not even sure it helps you win now.

I like IT a lot, but he's better suited long term to be a sinxth man energy guy.

Let's really get to what people are really saying in this thread... they don't think Tyreke's game is suited to the NBA and they don't want him on the team. If he isn't a 1, then he's just not much use to your team. Those people would just assume give Tyreke away for a draft pick and move the rebuild back a couple years while hoping we get lucky and get a second star level player to pair with Demarcus.

I agree but am tired of the argument. He has had no coaching and he has worked in no system. To say he can't run an offensive system is a little early. His first year consisted of having him do everything that people are now angry that he does. He was clearly asked to achieve 20-5-5 and to heck with anything else.

The next year was an injury plagued year.

The third year was total disarray because of Westphal. I think we all learned what kind of a coach Westphal has been all along. Not good. This is the same coach that Tyreke has had his entire career. Let's try him in a real offense and not a Westphal "do what you want" kind of offense.

Why give up on the PG idea? It doesn't mean he can't play in the same backcourt as IT, either. I just don't want to waste another year of his career trying to turn him into something that he isn't.

 

[Spike]

I agree but am tired of the argument. He has had no coaching and he has worked in no system. To say he can't run an offensive system is a little early. His first year consisted of having him do everything that people are now angry that he does. He was clearly asked to achieve 20-5-5 and to heck with anything else.

The next year was an injury plagued year.http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/9444/imagerdx.jpg

The third year was total disarray because of Westphal. I think we all learned what kind of a coach Westphal has been all along. Not good. This is the same coach that Tyreke has had his entire career. Let's try him in a real offense and not a Westphal "do what you want" kind of offense.

Why give up on the PG idea? It doesn't mean he can't play in the same backcourt as IT, either. I just don't want to waste another year of his career trying to turn him into something that he isn't.

I don't get the logic of turning him into an undersized 3, or that you'll make him better by taking the ball out of his hands. We've seen moments of brilliance and what was like a two week run where he was a triple double threat most nights THIS YEAR. To say "he's failed" is ignorant at this stage in the game, given what most of us know. Good this Westphal was ousted, or perhaps Cousins would have been a failure as well.
Evans is a guard. He has always been a guard. He has always had the advantage of being bigger than his defender. It was a defensive nightmare for the opposition because they had no matchup, and it saddens me that we've neutered that great advantage with a kid (younger than IT, btw) who was SHOWING PROGRESS at the PG spot.
At first I thought Smart was doing the right thing by teaching, really teaching, Evans how to run the point. Then he decided to abandon that in favor of smallball and a few more points. So far, he's lost me. Maybe it's the coach in me - I don't know. Hopefully he doesn't lose Evans with all this shuffling.

 

[rhythmless]

This is rediculous. Tyreke is a point guard. I know everyone is excited he isn't playing point guard at the moment so they can say SEE I was right! That doesn't change the fact that his ballhandling/passing/ability to break down a deense are completely superior to guys like AI2. Just because he doesn't know how to set and run an offense after two years of incompetant coaching as a 22 year old doesn't mean you suddenly turn him into an undersized 3 who isn't a tremendous shooter, or an average sized 2 who isn't used to playing off ball.

The other part about this that stinks is that the first half of our season was just brutal, so with a better coach, and a significantly easier schedule, we'll show improvement in wins and losses even though we're stunting the growth of one of our two star caliber players. Making Tyreke anything other than a PG is shortsighted, and I'm not even sure it helps you win now.

I like IT a lot, but he's better suited long term to be a sinxth man energy guy.

Let's really get to what people are really saying in this thread... they don't think Tyreke's game is suited to the NBA and they don't want him on the team. If he isn't a 1, then he's just not much use to your team. Those people would just assume give Tyreke away for a draft pick and move the rebuild back a couple years while hoping we get lucky and get a second star level player to pair with Demarcus.

Kobe and Roy have superior handling/passing and breaking down offense games, yet u don't see people getting their panties in a bunch when they're listed as 2 guards.

It's his third year as a pro, but he's been playing basketball for his life. If he hasn't picked up how to run some basic plays by now, when is he going to?

As a pg who can't shoot, you are a rondo/young Kidd type. However, they are elite at running the point. Tyreke doesn't have that feel. He lacks the pacing, knack for distributing(different than just passing) of a floor general, but has no outside game to be a full time threat with the ball. The convergence of these two factors is what makes it so hard for tyreke to have a position. As is right now, small forward actually is his best position for the skillset he has right now. He can do a lot of things well, but the only thing he's great at is inside layups. Sounds like a slashing small forward to me.

 

[ovrush]

Kobe and Roy have superior handling/passing and breaking down offense games, yet u don't see people getting their panties in a bunch when they're listed as 2 guards.

It's his third year as a pro, but he's been playing basketball for his life. If he hasn't picked up how to run some basic plays by now, when is he going to?

As a pg who can't shoot, you are a rondo/young Kidd type. However, they are elite at running the point. Tyreke doesn't have that feel. He lacks the pacing, knack for distributing(different than just passing) of a floor general, but has no outside game to be a full time threat with the ball. The convergence of these two factors is what makes it so hard for tyreke to have a position. As is right now, small forward actually is his best position for the skillset he has right now. He can do a lot of things well, but the only thing he's great at is inside layups. Sounds like a slashing small forward to me.

You also don't see people getting their panties in a bunch about those guys monopolizing the ball either, but you sure do with most people on this board.

You're right though... all point guards come into the league with either a great shooting touch or a strong understanding of running the show at an nba level...this of course ignores guys like Chauncy Billups, Steve Nash, and the glove. Plus it ignores the fact that Tyreke is a guy who has been so dominant his whole life that none of his coaches ever wanted him doing anything other than winning games for them. Even coach Cal at Memphis basically gave him the ball the last half of his only college season and let him do what he wanted.

I maintain my point that people who say he's a 3 just don't think he's that good. If the organization thinks he's best suited as a mediocre 3, we're better suited trading him for a draft pick (or an above average 3) to a team who would be happy to swindle a star caliber player from a team who had no idea how to develop or use one. Then, since getting lucky and drafting a star is rare, and generally you need two to win, we can wait for Demarcus to get sick of trying to carry the load as the only star in town, and walk in 3 years because we haven't been able to find a second guy to make the team a legitimate threat. At least then we'll have a "true pg" though

 

[kennadog]

Honestly, although Tyreke's brothers get a ton of credit for helping him grow up and stay out of trouble in a very rough neighborhood, I think they have held him back since college. Reke needs to work with some highly esteemed coaches in the off-season and listen less and less to his brothers.

He needs to be planning his off-season training with people who will be more objective about what Reke needs to do to improve his game, now that he's in the NBA. I imagine that's very hard, when your brothers have had such close control of everything you do and he really is indebted to them and trusts them. I just think it's a break he needs to make to advance his future in the NBA.

And I'm sure he would totally dismiss that idea, if he ever reads this.

 

[rainmaker]

Honestly, although Tyreke's brothers get a ton of credit for helping him grow up and stay out of trouble in a very rough neighborhood, I think they have held him back since college. Reke needs to work with some highly esteemed coaches in the off-season and listen less and less to his brothers.

He needs to be planning his off-season training with people who will be more objective about what Reke needs to do to improve his game, now that he's in the NBA. I imagine that's very hard, when your brothers have had such close control of everything you do and he really is indebted to them and trusts them. I just think it's a break he needs to make to advance his future in the NBA.

And I'm sure he would totally dismiss that idea, if he ever reads this.

I agree with this. I have supported Reke more than many here, but have felt the last two years his brothers are doing more harm than good. There was an interview from last July I think it was, where his brother was saying Reke doesn't need to rework his shot and there isn't anything wrong with it. Instead, he said he just needs to shoot like he did in high school, with confidence. I'm sorry, but that's advice from someone who doesn't have a clue how to improve at the highest level of pro ball(think that's the type of advice Kobe and Lebron listen to?). Might also be why Reke added nothing to his game.

If his brothers keep telling him it's all about confidence, and he just needs the mindset he had in high school, and aren't objectively pointing out what he needs to add(do they even know?) it would explain the lack of developing his left, and kind of a floater/runner, any midrange game, and his form isn't much better from deep. Sometimes it is, mostly it isn't.

Oh, and players do read this stuff on here. Not all, but some do. It won't be use who'll change Reke's thinking. It will be Smart, being honest and laying out exactly what he has to do this summer(which he recently said is already in the works) and Reke will have to compare that to what his brothers tell him. If Smart is saying one thing, and his brothers are saying another, basically forget coach and go do what you've been doing, then Reke has a decision to make.

I still believe he'll be a great player, as he doesn't need to add much. A mid range game would open everything else up for him. Most players can only wish that if they added a midrange game they'd be able to do half the things Reke will do when the defense can't lay off him.

 

[Lockehead]

I've always thought he was a scorer. Simply put. He has an elite slashing/finishing game. But no jumpshot. But he always had the mentality of a scorer.

That's why i've never understood the PG thing. Why suppress that scoring instinct by making him a PG? Why confuse him by putting ideas of running the offense, setting up players, and passing into his head? I thought that was the primary reason for all the overdribbling, standing around stuff he did so much in his sophomore year. He still had that "PG" label to him, and he was confused. It hindered his own development, as well as the team's. A lose-lose situation in my book.

To add to that, what PG skills did he have?

Which is why i think developing as a SG is best for him. Takes him away from the PG mindset, and let him focus/develop on scoring. The passing, creating, and setting up players will come naturally while his scoring abilities continue to grow. With as much talent he has in his driving game, he was only a jumpshot away from being a real scoring nightmare.

I think it's a lot easier to coach as well. It opens up the PG spot for another player to fill. A player who could defer to Reke and Cousins, but still do the other PG stuff - distributing the ball, run a play here and there etc.

 

[rainmaker]

I think it's a lot easier to coach as well. It opens up the PG spot for another player to fill. A player who could defer to Reke and Cousins, but still do the other PG stuff - distributing the ball, run a play here and there etc.

That's one reason I worry about IT starting at point long term. He doesn't defer to anyone, except Cousins sometimes. When starting, he's shooting 15+ times per, and has an almost identical assist rate to Reke. Add in MT, and I don't see how there's enough shots for everyone unless IT calms down a little. We need him out there, we need him setting up the offense, but we also need him to concentrate on getting the other 3 in a rhythm. If he does that, it should work. But if he plays as a combo guard as he has, and not a pure pg which some label him as, it might cause problems.

Will wait and see though. Still think moving MT to the bench and Reke to the 2, with Donte solves that problem, and lets IT be a little more aggressive. But right now he's not exactly Rubio just trying to set guys up.

 

[rhythmless]

You also don't see people getting their panties in a bunch about those guys monopolizing the ball either, but you sure do with most people on this board.

You're right though... all point guards come into the league with either a great shooting touch or a strong understanding of running the show at an nba level...this of course ignores guys like Chauncy Billups, Steve Nash, and the glove. Plus it ignores the fact that Tyreke is a guy who has been so dominant his whole life that none of his coaches ever wanted him doing anything other than winning games for them. Even coach Cal at Memphis basically gave him the ball the last half of his only college season and let him do what he wanted.

I maintain my point that people who say he's a 3 just don't think he's that good. If the organization thinks he's best suited as a mediocre 3, we're better suited trading him for a draft pick (or an above average 3) to a team who would be happy to swindle a star caliber player from a team who had no idea how to develop or use one. Then, since getting lucky and drafting a star is rare, and generally you need two to win, we can wait for Demarcus to get sick of trying to carry the load as the only star in town, and walk in 3 years because we haven't been able to find a second guy to make the team a legitimate threat. At least then we'll have a "true pg" though

Those guys are far more efficient with the ball (kobe less so nowadays). They can also hit the open shot.

As soon as Tyreke can hit a 20 footer with consistency, he will fall into a Jack of all trades SG ala Joe Johnson, Kobe, Roy, with less passing and more slashing. He'll also help with the spacing, as well as open up his slashing game. Again, it's up to him.

I agree, as a 3 he's wasting his size advantage. But he doesn't have a feel for what the team needs at each possession and the rest of his game doesn't bring enough at the PG/Sg spot.

I'd like him as a 2, but Smart's logic is valid; the kid can't shoot, and you sort of want some shooting from your shooting guard. Think of the successful guys at the 1/2. They can either run the team full time, or have enough consistency in their range that their jumper must be challenged. Tyreke doesn't have either now. Guards that don't add one of these two in the league end up like Larry Hughes.

 

[ovrush]

Those guys are far more efficient with the ball (kobe less so nowadays). They can also hit the open shot.

As soon as Tyreke can hit a 20 footer with consistency, he will fall into a Jack of all trades SG ala Joe Johnson, Kobe, Roy, with less passing and more slashing. He'll also help with the spacing, as well as open up his slashing game. Again, it's up to him.

I agree, as a 3 he's wasting his size advantage. But he doesn't have a feel for what the team needs at each possession and the rest of his game doesn't bring enough at the PG/Sg spot.

I'd like him as a 2, but Smart's logic is valid; the kid can't shoot, and you sort of want some shooting from your shooting guard. Think of the successful guys at the 1/2. They can either run the team full time, or have enough consistency in their range that their jumper must be challenged. Tyreke doesn't have either now. Guards that don't add one of these two in the league end up like Larry Hughes.

Exactly, the people who say Tyreke should play the three ultimately just don't think he's very good. I wish they'd stop mincing words and passively intimating things in every thread and just go full on into pushing to trade him, it would be a lot less frustrating. It's like the redux of the Peja/Hedo fans who hated on Webb for years. It gets exhausting.

 

[Kingster]

Exactly, the people who say Tyreke should play the three ultimately just don't think he's very good. I wish they'd stop mincing words and passively intimating things in every thread and just go full on into pushing to trade him, it would be a lot less frustrating. It's like the redux of the Peja/Hedo fans who hated on Webb for years. It gets exhausting.

I've already said: He's not very good. No mincing. To me, to be very good you've got to be a top 20 player in this league. Yes, he's not good enough to play the 1. He may be able to play the 2, but then you have a non-shooting shooting guard. If he were "very good" I guarantee you that the Kings would be winning more games.

If he develops a jump shot, then yes, he will be very good. He still won't be a pg, in my view, but he could be a heckuva two-guard. This summer is going to be HUGE for Tyreke Evans, for the Kings, and for us fans. We've got to see a noticeable jump in Tyreke Evans game.

 

[Spike]

If he were "very good" I guarantee you that the Kings would be winning more games.

Would it be fair to say that Kevin Durant wasn't very good? First two years, 20 and 23 wins for the franchise. There's a reason young teams lose more. Also, don't parse the statement any more than you have to. I know OKC got a better coach who turned things around (similar luck with Smart? who knows) shortly after, and we've been stuck with Westphal for two years.

 

[Spike]

If he develops a jump shot, then yes, he will be very good. He still won't be a pg, in my view, but he could be a heckuva two-guard. This summer is going to be HUGE for Tyreke Evans, for the Kings, and for us fans. We've got to see a noticeable jump in Tyreke Evans game.

I do agree that the jump shot needs improving. Every year, we see videos of a better looking jump shot, then he goes back to the fadeaway. It can't be that hard to correct.

 

[Lockehead]

What I hate most about his jumpshot, is that it seems most of it comes off the dribble. Even if he's wide open, he'll do a couple crossovers and then pull up for the shot.

A guess: that might be a habit picked up from his "PG" days.

A prediction: if he was a 2 guard, he'll be more likely to develop a set jumpshot.

 

[Prince_XY]

I don't get the logic of turning him into an undersized 3, or that you'll make him better by taking the ball out of his hands. We've seen moments of brilliance and what was like a two week run where he was a triple double threat most nights THIS YEAR. To say "he's failed" is ignorant at this stage in the game, given what most of us know. Good this Westphal was ousted, or perhaps Cousins would have been a failure as well.

This remains a big question to me.

What happened?

Why did Smart suddenly decided to put Evans at the 3?

Such a drastic stupid move by a stupid smallball-loving coach.

 

[cuad]

Obviously he didn't want Tyreke playing PG, but at the same time had no good excuse to bench Marcus Thornton, since Thornton can score while Evans can't.

 

[Bricklayer]

Obviously he didn't want Tyreke playing PG, but at the same time had no good excuse to bench Marcus Thornton, since Thornton can score while Evans can't.

Indeed, that Tyreke Evans, always such a struggle to score.

Quit trolling.