tyrant rants...
- Thread starter tyrant
- Start date
NoBonus
Starter
Knives out! I look at GP's style for making changes and I think the changes, as usual, will seem slow going to fans. GP tends to make one or two trades per year and slowly retool. It is like this:
The current lineup isn't working, let's trade one guy and try that for half the season; if that is not working, let's trade one guy and try that for the rest of the season. Still not working? Let's trade one guy and try that.... and on and on.
The current lineup isn't working, let's trade one guy and try that for half the season; if that is not working, let's trade one guy and try that for the rest of the season. Still not working? Let's trade one guy and try that.... and on and on.
tyrant
Starter
it sounds like patching. bring in cuttino, ok he sucks now bring in shareef, ok he sucks now bring in moore, ok he sucks, now bring in someone else. its not working. i didnt see anything wrong with bonzi. bonzi actually worked out. artest, bonzi, martin, adelman, bibby. one more piece and we would be talking playoff seeding today.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
Yipee...let's prolong the mediocrity.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
How would you have suggested we get that missing piece without losing the rest of our best players? Nobody would have traded away a superstar, especially for the junk we could have offered in return. It would have to be one pretty big piece for him to put us in contention.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
What did anyone expect when we traded Bibby for cap space? Did you think the team would get better with the loss of Justin, Bibby, and Dahntay and the addition of a little used PF and over the hill players?
The team makes a reasonable move in the rebuilding process and the result of it sends people to jumping off a cliff. Say it after me, "First we get worse by opening up cap space and second we get better by using the cap space." At present we are between the first move and the second move. Don't forget that we are moving!
The team makes a reasonable move in the rebuilding process and the result of it sends people to jumping off a cliff. Say it after me, "First we get worse by opening up cap space and second we get better by using the cap space." At present we are between the first move and the second move. Don't forget that we are moving!
tyrant
Starter
thats a good question. im not saying we needed a supertar. just someone that could block shots or hustle, make plays in the paint. but the answer to your question would be to package martin, reef and thomas. fish it out and im sure a fish wouldve bit. at that time martin was averaging like 14ppg i think. somewhere around there. he was growing potential and everyone knew that. reef played pretty well against duncan. we almost won game 2 because of him. martin will always be a peja. can score, make cuts to the bucket. but he'll never be as aggressive as we need him to be. we shouldve kept bonzi.
tyrant
Starter
is that what you call it? and what happened after we dumped webbers monster contract? wasnt that to clear space as well? and we're still sucking! we had a team during the summer of '06. we shouldve kept it. by the way, webbers contract wouldve been up this year. 2008. so technically trading for thomas, corliss and skinner was the dumbest move yet. because after this season webbers contract wouldve been over and we wouldnt have to worry about him and the likes of kenny thomas. (still paying him by the way). hes that guy sitting next to security
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Glenn
Hall of Famer
I didn't like the Webber trade but we didn't trade him to clear cap space as part of a rebuilding. We were trading an injured player that we thought was at the end of his career.
tyrant
Starter
webbers contract was over 100 mill. you're clearing space. and an injured webber still wouldve given us around 15 and 9 and 5 assists. instead of thomas' 7 and 5. and moores 5 and 4. horrible
tyrant
Starter
bloom
Starter
Yes I am.
But I do agree with you on wanting salmons, thomas and moore gone. But you forgot to add Shareef to the list.
tyrant
Starter
1st, if it werent for bonzi we wouldnt of won those 2 games against san antonio. 2nd, bonzi averaged monster numbers. he literally took the place of a power forward we desperately needed. didnt he average like 25 and 12? his numbers were ridiculous. how could you want someone gone after a performance like that
bloom
Starter
I’m not downplaying what Bonzi did for us. He shut down Tim. I loved his game during the Playoffs and it was exciting. But I wasn’t going to give the guy a ridiculous contract for those two games and the great play he had during the regular season (he was probably the best/consistent player on the team). I liked him, his personality wasn’t bad, he played hard but he was too old for me and I felt we needed to go in a different direction. If we kept him, I really don’t think we would start “building.” I understand your view but I hope you see mine. I wanted a new direction for the team. I hope we’re going to work on that during this summer.
CruzDude
Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
The core the Kings need to keep are:
Kevin (a 25ppg guy who makes the 3 and drives to the bucket)
Beno (until something better comes along)
Brad (still one of the best high post, passing centers in the league and with some young shot blocking defenders behind him gets much better)
Hawes (he'll be a good one next year and getting better)
Shelden (the mystery man, glimpses of tough rebounder, shot blocker who can score out to 16 ft or so)
Salmons (as a starter he could be a 20ppg guy who rebounds and dishes)
Cisco (our version of Mano Ginnobli)
Mikki (might be better off bench, lots of energy, makes FTs and his $$ make trading him tough)
RonRon should get us a SF starter unless that becomes Salmons but in any case will get us 1st rounder and good bench types.
Quincy is on the bubble as I see it and still on a rookie salary. Maybe a keeper.......hmm
Johnson, Lue and Wright are gone, expiring contracts
SAR is an unknown, if he comes back 100% (somewhat unlikely) then a good PF/C off the bench, but anything less and he needs to go
KT and SAR are $8M and $6.2M next year and $8.5M and $6.6M the year after and real albatrosses around the neck of the Kings
With potential trades in July and 3 draft choices, there can be 6 new bodies on the Kings next year.
The rest of this year I'll watch and hope for more minutes for Hawes and Williams and hope they provide a glimpse of being forces to help down low.
I'll watch Beno and if the team moves better, hope to see his assists increase to the 6-8 range
Kevin (a 25ppg guy who makes the 3 and drives to the bucket)
Beno (until something better comes along)
Brad (still one of the best high post, passing centers in the league and with some young shot blocking defenders behind him gets much better)
Hawes (he'll be a good one next year and getting better)
Shelden (the mystery man, glimpses of tough rebounder, shot blocker who can score out to 16 ft or so)
Salmons (as a starter he could be a 20ppg guy who rebounds and dishes)
Cisco (our version of Mano Ginnobli)
Mikki (might be better off bench, lots of energy, makes FTs and his $$ make trading him tough)
RonRon should get us a SF starter unless that becomes Salmons but in any case will get us 1st rounder and good bench types.
Quincy is on the bubble as I see it and still on a rookie salary. Maybe a keeper.......hmm
Johnson, Lue and Wright are gone, expiring contracts
SAR is an unknown, if he comes back 100% (somewhat unlikely) then a good PF/C off the bench, but anything less and he needs to go
KT and SAR are $8M and $6.2M next year and $8.5M and $6.6M the year after and real albatrosses around the neck of the Kings
With potential trades in July and 3 draft choices, there can be 6 new bodies on the Kings next year.
The rest of this year I'll watch and hope for more minutes for Hawes and Williams and hope they provide a glimpse of being forces to help down low.
I'll watch Beno and if the team moves better, hope to see his assists increase to the 6-8 range
Jerryaki
Starter
two words: contract year.
DocHolliday
Starter
The Kings. Bonzi chose not to come back, because the Kings offer was too low for his taste at the time.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
That was always hooey -- Bonzi Wells had had BETTER seasons before he came to Sacto. Only thing he picked up was his rebounding, which was always big for a guard anyway.
Jerryaki
Starter
better seasons than the 25 and 12 in the SA playoffs that tyrant was referring to?
Löwenherz
Starter
Let's not forget all the rumors that summer of us getting KG for Miller, SAR and KMart
Really though, GP probably could have gotten Tyson Chandler from the Bulls that summer for SAR and Bonzi (s/t) or if you were really hung up on resigning Bonzi, possibly SAR and either K-Mart or Cisco with maybe Corliss's expiring. All are equal to or better than the J.R. Smith/P.J. Brown package they got from the Hornets.
A lineup of Miller, Chandler, Artest, KMart/Bonzi and Bibby I think would have been offensively and defensively balanced and probably good enough for at least 4th or 5th in the West that year. Of course, that's assuming Capt. Muss wasn't there to drive the ship right into an iceberg.
Maybe that specific deal wasn't possible, but we had options. Instead, GP pulled his typical routine of letting our free agent walk, signing a MLE guy, drafting a "safe pick" from the late first round and calling it an offseason.
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
Look this team was lotto bound before the first game of the season and has not been in a "re-tooling" position since probably the Webber trade, the problem is, and has been, the the idea that a few trades will fix this mess; and that idea has hung arround like a fart in in phone booth! This team has needed a compleet rebuild since we gave up being contenders by giving up on Webber for "flexable pices." For a team to be a contender in virtually all cases it needs a franchise type player, some folks thought Pedja wat it... tehn Mike... now eyes turn to Artest or Martin. In reality these are all Robins looking even hopeing for a Batman.
To ge a franchise type player the Kings need to look to either the lotto (top 3 picks), Free Agency, or Trade. Now we have and can argue about which route or routes are the best way to get there but untill that player is in the line up all other trades amount to either setps TO THAT MOVE or rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
To ge a franchise type player the Kings need to look to either the lotto (top 3 picks), Free Agency, or Trade. Now we have and can argue about which route or routes are the best way to get there but untill that player is in the line up all other trades amount to either setps TO THAT MOVE or rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
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beb0p
Starter
Bonzi's time in Sacto was by far his BEST season in his last four up to that point. Furthermore, he went a whole season without cursing at the coach, spitting on someone, punching a teammate, or getting arrested. He was, without a doubt, playing for his next contract. We were very lucky not to sign him to an extension. Imagine having a crazy person and a gangster all on the same team. Bonzi would start a fight and Artest would end it by burning down the building, not good.
Don't get it twisted: participating in a six-game series with San Antonio is not the same as "almost taking them to seven games." We got blown out in Games 5 and 6... In fact, we pretty much got handled in all four of the Spurs' wins. We no more "almost" took them to seven games than we "almost" beat the Heat last night.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Last time I checked that was a 5 game series, not a season. And not terribly relevant to what he had done to deserve being resigned, except as a cherry on top for people who either hadn't been paying attention or people so enamored with pretty ball as to miss the obvious advantages of a straight forward *** whooping in a contact sport.
Jerryaki
Starter
tyrant's argument was based on that series.
"contract year" refers to the fact that bonzi kicked it up a notch in the playoffs; he had to since he was out for such a huge chunk of the season. and the season itself, while his numbers were in line with his career averages (he had two seasons where he scored more than the ~13 ppg he did in Sac), he was certainly on his best behavior. this is the same guy that the season prior was banned from entering the stadium grounds in memphis during the playoffs.
and it's pretty clear that he was playing for a bigger contract, as evidenced by the negotiations in the offseason.
i don't care if people want to argue for bonzi being resigned; just don't use the SA series as the foundation. the guy was in survival mode at that point.
***ETA: also, an interesting note: his best season ('01-'02) came during a contract year.
"contract year" refers to the fact that bonzi kicked it up a notch in the playoffs; he had to since he was out for such a huge chunk of the season. and the season itself, while his numbers were in line with his career averages (he had two seasons where he scored more than the ~13 ppg he did in Sac), he was certainly on his best behavior. this is the same guy that the season prior was banned from entering the stadium grounds in memphis during the playoffs.
and it's pretty clear that he was playing for a bigger contract, as evidenced by the negotiations in the offseason.
i don't care if people want to argue for bonzi being resigned; just don't use the SA series as the foundation. the guy was in survival mode at that point.
***ETA: also, an interesting note: his best season ('01-'02) came during a contract year.
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RaY Z
Starter
at least peja was cheap
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