Ty Lawson?

[randymoss1881]

Looks like Lawson and Faried may be traded by the draft for the rebuilding Nuggets.

http://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci...-josh-kroenke-has-work-cut-out-him?source=rss

If George Karl has a say, I can see the Kings sending out some sort of package of #6 pick, DC, Nik, Landry and JT for Lawson and Faried and a 2015 second round pick.

If that happens, the Kings would need to sign a bunch of mid level talent to fill in the roster.

I'm not saying it will happen, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Actually in that trade we would have 11mill in cap space left. Sign 2 guys to come off the bench.

Really though I'd take Faried over Lawson 10/10 espically after that article that @Gilles posted. I want no part of Lawson at least Faried improves us at PF. Again if we are trading for faried they must take both JT/Landry. JT/Landry/6/Nik for Faried/Chandler. Chandler at 7mill is cheaper than signing a FA (green/Afflalo/Carrol) while providing the same defense and shooting. If the cap is at 67.1 next year we would have 12mill in cap space. Give Belinelli 5and give Koufos 7 and there we have an above average bench.

Collison/Ray
Ben/Belinelli
Gay/Chandler
Faried
Cousins/Koufos

 

[ockingsfan]

A trade for Lawson and Chandler is a possibility.

If the Kings keep the # 6 pick and draft WCS, the King could make a trade for Lawson/Chandler.

The Kings trade Ben McClemore, Darren Collison, , Ray McCallum and Jason Thompson for Ty Lawson and Wilson Chandler.

Why the Kings do it? The Kings need a third player for a "big 3" and Lawson could fit that role. Wilson Chandler give the Kings a defensive minded shooting guard with more consistency than Ben. The Kings keep their #6 pick and draft a defensive stud at PF in WCS.

Why the Nuggets do it? The Nuggets are looking to blow up and rebuild. Ben gives them a young SG with a high ceiling and a low price tag. Darren Collison gives them a solid starter to replace Lawson. Ray McCallum is a viable backup or 3rd PG and comes on a cheap rookie deal, he still has some upside. JT would be a viable third big on a resonable contract that is an ender.

Kings sign Jeremy Lin and one of Kosta Koufas/ Brendan Wright/Ed Davis to backup PF/C. Resign Andre Miller and Omri Casspi.

New Kings Line Up:

PF WCS / Landry/ Moreland
SF Rudy Gay/ Casspi
C DMC / Koufas/ Sim
SG Wilson Chandler / Stauskas
PG Lawson / Lin/ Miller

Kings line up would balanced with 3 offensive players (DMC/Gay/Lawson) and 2 defensive players (WCS and Chandler). Hopefully Nik steps up and becomes a genuine NBA player

Side note : kosta koufos played for George Karl in Denver and had his best year 8.0pt, 7 reb, 1.3 blks per game. I think their Denver connection will help the kings sign him if they want to.

 

[sdballer]

A trade for Lawson and Chandler is a possibility.

If the Kings keep the # 6 pick and draft WCS, the King could make a trade for Lawson/Chandler.

The Kings trade Ben McClemore, Darren Collison, , Ray McCallum and Jason Thompson for Ty Lawson and Wilson Chandler.

Why the Kings do it? The Kings need a third player for a "big 3" and Lawson could fit that role. Wilson Chandler give the Kings a defensive minded shooting guard with more consistency than Ben. The Kings keep their #6 pick and draft a defensive stud at PF in WCS.

Why the Nuggets do it? The Nuggets are looking to blow up and rebuild. Ben gives them a young SG with a high ceiling and a low price tag. Darren Collison gives them a solid starter to replace Lawson. Ray McCallum is a viable backup or 3rd PG and comes on a cheap rookie deal, he still has some upside. JT would be a viable third big on a resonable contract that is an ender.

Kings sign Jeremy Lin and one of Kosta Koufas/ Brendan Wright/Ed Davis to backup PF/C. Resign Andre Miller and Omri Casspi.

New Kings Line Up:

PF WCS / Landry/ Moreland
SF Rudy Gay/ Casspi
C DMC / Koufas/ Sim
SG Wilson Chandler / Stauskas
PG Lawson / Lin/ Miller

Kings line up would balanced with 3 offensive players (DMC/Gay/Lawson) and 2 defensive players (WCS and Chandler). Hopefully Nik steps up and becomes a genuine NBA player

Side note : kosta koufos played for George Karl in Denver and had his best year 8.0pt, 7 reb, 1.3 blks per game. I think their Denver connection will help the kings sign him if they want to.

Chandler bulked up and hasn't really played SG in years. Defending SG's would not be a strength for him and Lawson is a worse shooter and defender than Collison. You'd basically get worse at shooting and defending in the backcourt than this year, which is a major problem. That doesn't even take into account Lawson's fit with Cousins/Gay or his off court issues. Plus, don't think you'd have cap space for Koufos and Lin.

Lawson isn't a good fit on this time and there isn't enough justification to double the cost of our PG for a guy that isn't better than Collison at our areas of greatest need.

 

[ParniValjak]

I wouldn't mind getting Lawson but not if it cost us a chance at WCS. Just no!

He would be an upgrade on Collison but in terms of value for money, I don't think its a smarter investment. While upgrade at PG would be nice, it is not a pressing need. PF, SG and depth are much more pressing needs for us.

Don't think Faried is the answer at PF.

 

[dude12]

I think Lawson and/or Faried will come cheaper than most think. Denver's not going to give them away but I also think that they would take less value to rid themselves of the contracts. How much less is the questions.

 

[Mass]

I would be ok with Lawson, just if he doesn't cost us any asset. If Denver wants to rebuild and dump some big contracts, I'd be glad to grab Lawson and Chandler. McCollum, Stauskas and Landry (they can stretch his contract) is the best package I would offer.

 

[pdizo916]

I would be ok with Lawson, just if he doesn't cost us any asset. If Denver wants to rebuild and dump some big contracts, I'd be glad to grab Lawson and Chandler. McCollum, Stauskas and Landry (they can stretch his contract) is the best package I would offer.

but doesn't the salaries have to match?

 

[Mass]

We can use our cap space. Lawson and Chandler are better than any free agents we could sign. This trade would eat about 9/10 millions of our cap space, but I'd do it.

 

[Gilles]

I would take Collison and Miller (vet min) at PG over Lawson and Collison with current salary situation without hesitation.
Same with Rudy/Omri at SF. Chandler would be redundant, if Omri returns.
Very good fit beats talent every time.

 

[ockingsfan]

Very good fit beats talent every time.

Really?

There is a reason the Kings won just 29 games last year, besides the coaching changes, and it is talent.

The Kings need a major talent upgrade to compete in the West.

Good fits can only get you so far in the West, in the East maybe you can win, but not the West.

 

[Gilles]

Yes, there were two reasons actually: most of the team were sending ...! message to FO under Corbin, and then Kings were still tanking under Karl.
Replace bad defenders in Evans, Landry and Mccallum and atrocious ones in Williams, Stauskas, and Kings would've pretty good on D even this year. Fix backup PG (hopefully Dre comes back), SG and big men depth on offense and Kings would've been very good on offense as well.

P.S. Forgot third reason, viral meningitis.

 

[randymoss1881]

Why so people want Lawson over Faried?
We don't need pg help Faried helps a need. Farieds combination of slashing and high low passing will be amazing with DMC. I know we want WCS but id take Faried/Chandler over WCS. We could still sign Koufos at 7mill who is a very good defender. Than sign Belinelli 5mill.

 

[KingMilz]

Why so people want Lawson over Faried?
We don't need pg help Faried helps a need. Farieds combination of slashing and high low passing will be amazing with DMC. I know we want WCS but id take Faried/Chandler over WCS. We could still sign Koufos at 7mill who is a very good defender. Than sign Belinelli 5mill.

Cause Faried won't be playing against inferior athletes in a B level competition like when he dominated in the World Championships. A frontline of Cousins/Faried/Koufos (Kosta is basically less athletic JT with shot blocking) would not scare me at all aside from obviously Cousins. There's just way better options for us to trade/sign than Faried tbh. We actually do need help at PG we need a back up PG (does not have to be Lawson/Collison), Miller is 40 next year he has to be a 3rd PG. If we can't get WCS and one of the talented PG's drop to us we should draft him and let them develop behind DC.

We are better off playing Rudy Gay @ the 4 than we are Faried.

 

[Bricklayer]

Cause Faried won't be playing against inferior athletes in a B level competition like when he dominated in the World Championships. A frontline of Cousins/Faried/Koufos (Kosta is basically less athletic JT with shot blocking) would not scare me at all aside from obviously Cousins. There's just way better options for us to trade/sign than Faried tbh. We actually do need help at PG we need a back up PG (does not have to be Lawson/Collison), Miller is 40 next year he has to be a 3rd PG. If we can't get WCS and one of the talented PG's drop to us we should draft him and let them develop behind DC.

We are better off playing Rudy Gay @ the 4 than we are Faried.

No, Faried is good at what he does, especially in Karl's running game. And Cuz/Faried/Koufos would dominate the glass like all get out.

The problem with Faried is that he's a) overpaid and b) not much of a defender, and never will be. Koufos would help there, give us 48min of legit center defense, but we'd be permanently and very expensively locked into having a poor PF defender.

I suppose you could cap things by drafting Cauley Stein, then have a full set of big man options with Cuz/Koufos/Faried/WCS. That'd be a real strong group. But then you would have spent most of your assets and money putting together a frontcourt, while leaving a backcourt mess that would be amongst the worst in the league, and in particular without the shooters or perimeter defenders we need.

 

[KingMilz]

No, Faried is good at what he does, especially in Karl's running game. And Cuz/Faried/Koufos would dominate the glass like all get out.

The problem with Faried is that he's a) overpaid and b) not much of a defender, and never will be. Koufos would help there, give us 48min of legit center defense, but we'd be permanently and very expensively locked into having a poor PF defender.

I suppose you could cap things by drafting Cauley Stein, then have a full set of big man options with Cuz/Koufos/Faried/WCS. That'd be a real strong group. But then you would have spent most of your assets and money putting together a frontcourt, while leaving a backcourt mess that would be amongst the worst in the league, and in particular without the shooters or perimeter defenders we need.

Paying Koufos 7 million while we have pretty much the a similar player making 5 million in JT does not really make that much sense, we need a long/athletic mobile body that provides the threat of a lob (e.g WCS). Getting Faried + whatever else the Nuggets would want that 6th pick wouldn't they?

If we want to have a small PF than just go with Rudy is what I'm saying, Faried is making 1-2 million less than Rudy next year and defensively he could very well be worse than Rudy guarding PF's. Or even someone like Bass (way cheaper) who can hit a mid range jumper and provides that toughness in terms of finishing around the rim Faried does.

 

[Bricklayer]

Paying Koufos 7 million while we have pretty much the a similar player making 5 million in JT does not really make that much sense, we need a long/athletic mobile body that provides the threat of a lob (e.g WCS). Getting Faried + whatever else the Nuggets would want that 6th pick wouldn't they?

If we want to have a small PF than just go with Rudy is what I'm saying, Faried is making 1-2 million less than Rudy next year and defensively he could very well be worse than Rudy guarding PF's. Or even someone like Bass (way cheaper) who can hit a mid range jumper and provides that toughness in terms of finishing around the rim Faried does.

We also need a big thuggy rebounding fool body to fill in when Cuz is out, either to rest, for fouls, or if injured. It was a catatrophe everytime he left the game this year. We need a real big able to do real big things to alleviate that as much as possible. And Koufos is a good one. Good enough in fact to backup the center on a WCSF team this year, and one of the better defensive teams. Good enough to back up our center too.

Koufos was at 11.2pts 11.4reb 1.7blk per 36 this year BTW, and that's very much his standard for the last 4 years. He was Karl's starting center a couple of years ago, and he'll bang you. Meanwhile Jason has been withering away and was all the way down to 8.9pts 9.6reb 1.0blk this year.

 

[KingsFanGER]

If we move JT to the backup center role, I see no pressing need for a guy like Koufos. He would be an upgrade over JT, but having two backup center is a luxury.
I would be pleased with a trade involving JT and a Koufos signing to fill the gap. But Koufos should get some offers from contenders this year. I don't think we have much of a chance to persuade him to play in SAC.

 

[randymoss1881]

We also need a big thuggy rebounding fool body to fill in when Cuz is out, either to rest, for fouls, or if injured. It was a catatrophe everytime he left the game this year. We need a real big able to do real big things to alleviate that as much as possible. And Koufos is a good one. Good enough in fact to backup the center on a WCSF team this year, and one of the better defensive teams. Good enough to back up our center too.

Koufos was at 11.2pts 11.4reb 1.7blk per 36 this year BTW, and that's very much his standard for the last 4 years. He was Karl's starting center a couple of years ago, and he'll bang you. Meanwhile Jason has been withering away and was all the way down to 8.9pts 9.6reb 1.0blk this year.

Exactly you trade landry/JT so you have money to sign Koufos and a wing (Belinelli). Like you said Koufus is great defensively and with DMC playing 32-35mpg we need an anchor for 15-20mpg.
http://bealestreetbears.com/2015/05/08/the-memphis-grizzlies-invisible-man-kosta-koufos/

And people should stop acting like Faried is some scrub his slashing and finishing will have to be respected and feeding off of Gay/DMC will do him wonders. Also let's not forget we would make them them give us Chandler who is on par with FA (Carrol/Green) at a lower price. Having 3 vets off the bench on Koufos/Chandler/Belinelli is a good bench.

 

[ParniValjak]

If we move JT to the backup center role, I see no pressing need for a guy like Koufos. He would be an upgrade over JT, but having two backup center is a luxury.
I would be pleased with a trade involving JT and a Koufos signing to fill the gap. But Koufos should get some offers from contenders this year. I don't think we have much of a chance to persuade him to play in SAC.

JT will be used as a semi expiring deal this off-season and he will have value. He only has $2 million guaranteed for 2016-17 season and given that the salary cap will increase significantly, this will be equivalent of a veteran's minimum wage....in other words, not even a blip on the radar.

He will come in handy in a bigger deal where a team is trying to get out under a contract and make some salary cap room for the 2016-17 season. If we manage to draft WCS, I can see us offering a package of Collison, JT and Stauskas to Denver for Lawson who they clearly want to trade and who clearly wants out. It's a classic, expiring deal, solid veteran and young prospect deal. Whether Denver bites or not is another discussion all together but I can certainly see JT getting moved as part of a deal for a veteran that helps us improve. Similarly to how John Salmons was part key part of the deal for Rudy Gay. He was essentially $8 million expiring deal with only $1.5 million guaranteed for a season after the one we traded him in.

 

[Bricklayer]

If we move JT to the backup center role, I see no pressing need for a guy like Koufos. He would be an upgrade over JT, but having two backup center is a luxury.
I would be pleased with a trade involving JT and a Koufos signing to fill the gap. But Koufos should get some offers from contenders this year. I don't think we have much of a chance to persuade him to play in SAC.

He was George Karl's starting center in Denver the year Karl got fired, that's our angle.

 

[Gilles]

2 Non-Corbin stretches for JT:
Frontcourt teammate--poss--OReb%--DReb%--team OReb%--team DReb%--PPP allowed
DMC---------------------927---9.8-------17.7--------29.5-------------76.9-----------0.998---acted as PF on both ends
two SFs, other-----------700---9.7-------24.0-------23.3-------------72.7-----------1.118----acted as C on both ends, overwhelmed on D and boards
Landry-------------------407---4.5------24.6--------18.2-------------76.4-----------1.054---acted as PF on offense, C on defense
Evans--------------------381---13.2------17.3--------29.6-------------72.3-----------1.140---acted as PF on both ends
Hollins-------------------235---4.0-------31.4--------26.2-------------77.5-----------1.164---acted as PF on offense, C on defense

*note: having Ray Mccallum over Collison, Miller, Nik over Ben and Derrick Williams really hurt any defensive lineup, but without them sample size becomes laughable for any pairing other than JT-DMC

• team controlled defensive boards very well with JT as a center next to another big
  
• JT can't play center next to two SFs, but to be fair DMC without another bigman lead the team to 1.128 PPP allowed (736 possessions, 28.7 team OReb%, 71.5 team DReb%) - both defensive markers even worse than for JT.
  
• Evans didn't work as a center on D, and Hollins - as a PF on D
• Landry actually did reasonably well on D, but offense with him in the post was laughably bad. In theory, if no better option is found, Landry could work as a stretching 4 next to perimeter guys with good penetration.

Kosta Koufos next to Gasol, 423 poss - 10.4OReb%, 23.1DReb% (25.4 team OReb%; 76.4 team DReb%; PPP difference: 1.076 - 1.003)
Kosta Koufos next to ZBo, 666 poss -10.7OReb%; 24.9DReb% (27.7 team OReb%; 78.9 team DReb%; PPP difference: 1.103 - 0.900)

Just to establish baseline:
w/o Kosta Koufos - 24.2 team OReb%; 75.3 team DReb%; PPP difference: 1.083 - 1.054
w/ZBo, Gasol - 25.4 team OReb%; 76.4 team DReb%; PPP difference: 1.096 - 1.043

Well...after looking at these numbers I would say DMC/Koufos/JT/WCS big rotation could just be league's most devastating one defensively next season with two massively important questions looming:

• will Karl play DMC/Koufos and DMC/JT pairings or JT just becomes 3rd center, if Kosta comes over?
• will Karl make those pairings work offensively like Memphis was able to do?

 

[randymoss1881]

JT will be used as a semi expiring deal this off-season and he will have value. He only has $2 million guaranteed for 2016-17 season and given that the salary cap will increase significantly, this will be equivalent of a veteran's minimum wage....in other words, not even a blip on the radar.

He will come in handy in a bigger deal where a team is trying to get out under a contract and make some salary cap room for the 2016-17 season. If we manage to draft WCS, I can see us offering a package of Collison, JT and Stauskas to Denver for Lawson who they clearly want to trade and who clearly wants out. It's a classic, expiring deal, solid veteran and young prospect deal. Whether Denver bites or not is another discussion all together but I can certainly see JT getting moved as part of a deal for a veteran that helps us improve. Similarly to how John Salmons was part key part of the deal for Rudy Gay. He was essentially $8 million expiring deal with only $1.5 million guaranteed for a season after the one we traded him in.

Id want Foye added on in this deal he would be a good back up here also and still gives us room to sign Koufos.

 

[Iced Espresso]

Brick if we had a complete team, and salary room with the exception of just a starting pf, I could see Faried and gambling because of the cap sky rocketing. But not with so many holes and our lack of cap space. We should learn from the Thompson/Landry scenario about too much investment in players who have handcuffed us.

And no to Lawson, I would not want him for free with our cap situation with how thrifty the Collison contract is.

 

[jdbraver]

Brick if we had a complete team, and salary room with the exception of just a starting pf, I could see Faried and gambling because of the cap sky rocketing. But not with so many holes and our lack of cap space. We should learn from the Thompson/Landry scenario about too much investment in players who have handcuffed us.

And no to Lawson, I would not want him for free with our cap situation with how thrifty the Collison contract is.

It's not the individual amount that JT/Landry make that kills us it's the fact that we have so many. Landry was a michael Malone pickup that shouldn't have happened if we were planning on keeping JT.

 

[Iced Espresso]

JT will be used as a semi expiring deal this off-season and he will have value. He only has $2 million guaranteed for 2016-17 season and given that the salary cap will increase significantly, this will be equivalent of a veteran's minimum wage....in other words, not even a blip on the radar.

He will come in handy in a bigger deal where a team is trying to get out under a contract and make some salary cap room for the 2016-17 season. If we manage to draft WCS, I can see us offering a package of Collison, JT and Stauskas to Denver for Lawson who they clearly want to trade and who clearly wants out. It's a classic, expiring deal, solid veteran and young prospect deal. Whether Denver bites or not is another discussion all together but I can certainly see JT getting moved as part of a deal for a veteran that helps us improve. Similarly to how John Salmons was part key part of the deal for Rudy Gay. He was essentially $8 million expiring deal with only $1.5 million guaranteed for a season after the one we traded him in.

I don't like it.

It's 2.65 for JT's final year also. And if we have to pay that no matter what, and the cap increases I want to resign him most likely that final season.

Tell me what you are getting from Lawson that's really going to be a valuable commodity over Collison? Especially at his salary?

Landry makes JT's contract worse than it is, but once that cap goes up he will be just fine backing Cousins up if we draft WCS after he gets a season under his belt. And to toss a prospect Denvers way too, no thanks.

 

[Iced Espresso]

It's not the individual amount that JT/Landry make that kills us it's the fact that we have so many. Landry was a michael Malone pickup that shouldn't have happened if we were planning on keeping JT.

Yeah I'm reminded by someone every single time I bring it up, I get it, that's about the 10th time I've had the robotic reply.

 

[ockingsfan]

I think the main advantage of getting Lawson is that we decrease the possibility of failure next season. The kings know that Lawson was the floor general for coach Karl offense that won 57 games just 2 years ago.

It is not a knock on Darren collison, but he is in a major disadvantage in the eyes of Karl because he was injured and never played a game for Karl.

Getting Lawson would eliminate the possibility that we have a point guard that doesn't fit Karl's offense.

Salary difference will be pretty meaningless once the salary cap jumps after next season.

I am all for getting Lawson, as long as we don't send the #6 pick in the trade.

 

[jdbraver]

Yeah I'm reminded by someone every single time I bring it up, I get it, that's about the 10th time I've had the robotic reply.

You are welcome.

 

[Gilles]

I think the main advantage of getting Lawson is that we decrease the possibility of failure next season. The kings know that Lawson was the floor general for coach Karl offense that won 57 games just 2 years ago.

It is not a knock on Darren collison, but he is in a major disadvantage in the eyes of Karl because he was injured and never played a game for Karl.

Getting Lawson would eliminate the possibility that we have a point guard that doesn't fit Karl's offense.

Salary difference will be pretty meaningless once the salary cap jumps after next season.

I am all for getting Lawson, as long as we don't send the #6 pick in the trade.

Karl himself gave a quote, that having Darren healthy for the whole season would've given Kings 5-6 more wins. In this day and age of instant replay and footage available on a moment's notice, I'm pretty sure, Karl knows, what Darren can do, and how he was able to function so well next to Boogie and Rudy.

 

[206Fan]

Exactly you trade landry/JT so you have money to sign Koufos and a wing (Belinelli). Like you said Koufus is great defensively and with DMC playing 32-35mpg we need an anchor for 15-20mpg.
http://bealestreetbears.com/2015/05/08/the-memphis-grizzlies-invisible-man-kosta-koufos/

And people should stop acting like Faried is some scrub his slashing and finishing will have to be respected and feeding off of Gay/DMC will do him wonders. Also let's not forget we would make them them give us Chandler who is on par with FA (Carrol/Green) at a lower price. Having 3 vets off the bench on Koufos/Chandler/Belinelli is a good bench.

That wouldn't work though. After trading away our #6 pick, we'd have around $11-12million to work with. However, a JT-Landry trade would subtract it by 6million, and we'd have $5-6million left.

That's probbaly enough for Kofus. I don't think Belineli takes a MLE for 2 years $2.8million.

Ty Lawson/Darren Collison/Ray McCallum
Ben McLemore/NikStauskas
Rudy Gay/Marco Belineli
Kosta Kofus/Wilson Chandler
Cousins/Eric Moreland


PF-C rotation is horrible here. We'd probably have to trade Stauskas+Ray for a decent backup PF.

Then we'd have a roster of
Lawson/Collison
McLemore/Belineli
Gay/Chandler
Kofus/Tolliver(insert backup PF)
Cousins/Moreladn

Lack of depth will kill us.