Section 101
All-Star
No it doesn't. DC at 6 mil is better than Lawson at 13 mil and having to give up pick? No thanks. If they want landry and JT for Lawson then go a head.
Ty Lawson?
- Thread starter kingsboi
- Start date
No it doesn't. DC at 6 mil is better than Lawson at 13 mil and having to give up pick? No thanks. If they want landry and JT for Lawson then go a head.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Lawson is an upgrade over Collison, so of course I'd like to have him. Unless you believe the team is going to get better without better players you have to want him. Unless you think we don't need him because this sub-30 win team is ready for the playoffs with minor tweaks to its personnel. Which I don't. The only issue is price. The Kings #1 and Collison is too great a price, regardless of whether they are 6 or 7 or in the top 3.
IfAt1st
Starter
The Kings need to ADD talent, not shift assets around, hoping Ty is $7 million better than Collison (and giving up the incoming #6 pick? That by definition is a guaranteed talent-drain, again!).
The obvious spots to add talent are SG and PF.
We pay our guards less than almost every other team. The Kings need to spend more for the guard pool to get more talent.
The Kings need to trade one of their PFs and add a much better one to get more talent there.
The obvious spots to add talent are SG and PF.
We pay our guards less than almost every other team. The Kings need to spend more for the guard pool to get more talent.
The Kings need to trade one of their PFs and add a much better one to get more talent there.
randymoss1881
Starter
Wilson Chandler better come with lawson if we have up DC/6
Iced Espresso
Starter
Denver should be interesting to watch.
Not that I necessarily want to make deals with them, but I could see us getting Chandler, Lawson, or even Faried with lots going out.
As Denver goes on draft day, the trades go. If they blow it up it could get insane on draft day.
If they do blow it up, I'm pretty sure we will be involved too.
Their fans are in complete limbo over there.
randymoss1881
Starter
Yup this is true. What I hope happened sis the blow it up but Houston offers Jones/Popanikolou/ 18th pick for Lawson. Takes us out of the pg race than we can scoop up
Faried/Chandler or Gallo/Chandler
Here's one thing to keep in mind about Lawson and the Kings.
Sacramento had the third lowest number of 3PT attempts per game last year (ahead of only Memphis and Minnesota) and were in the bottom half of the league in percentage as well. Last year Lawson and Collison played almost the same MPG and Collison took 1 more three per game while shooting 37.3% to Lawsons 34.1%. DC also shot better inside the arc (51.4% to 46.3%) and to my eyes Lawson is a less engaged/effective defender.
So while Lawson improves one area (the Kings were near the bottom of the league in assists) to me he hurts in three areas - another notch down in three point shooting, a slight downgrade defensively and decrease in floor spacing as Collison was more willing to give up the ball (and a better shooter) and Lawson needs the ball to attack the hoop which is where he's effective in terms of scoring and creating assists. Less room for both Cousins and Gay to operate.
All for $7 million more a year and the cost of assets that would likely include the Kings lottery pick. I just don't see that being a deal that benefits the Kings. Underwhelming or flat out poor draft picks the last few years seem have given the collective fanbase the opinion that picks aren't valuable when in fact they are absolutely crucial in shaping a team. If PDA were still at the helm I'd be in favor of trading the pick. If Petrie were GM I'd be adamant about keeping it. With Vlade, who knows? But Damien Lillard, Brandon Roy and Nerlens Noel all went 6th in the last few years. Curry went 7th. Andre Drummond and Paul George went 9th. Klay Thompson went 11th.
I'd rather roll the dice on grabbing a real building block than a talent upgrade at PG that may not pay proportional benefits on the court due to fit and who would eat up more caproom. Unless Landry goes out as part of the deal I wouldn't even consider it.
And don't get me started on Faried and why that's a poor move for the Kings.
Sacramento had the third lowest number of 3PT attempts per game last year (ahead of only Memphis and Minnesota) and were in the bottom half of the league in percentage as well. Last year Lawson and Collison played almost the same MPG and Collison took 1 more three per game while shooting 37.3% to Lawsons 34.1%. DC also shot better inside the arc (51.4% to 46.3%) and to my eyes Lawson is a less engaged/effective defender.
So while Lawson improves one area (the Kings were near the bottom of the league in assists) to me he hurts in three areas - another notch down in three point shooting, a slight downgrade defensively and decrease in floor spacing as Collison was more willing to give up the ball (and a better shooter) and Lawson needs the ball to attack the hoop which is where he's effective in terms of scoring and creating assists. Less room for both Cousins and Gay to operate.
All for $7 million more a year and the cost of assets that would likely include the Kings lottery pick. I just don't see that being a deal that benefits the Kings. Underwhelming or flat out poor draft picks the last few years seem have given the collective fanbase the opinion that picks aren't valuable when in fact they are absolutely crucial in shaping a team. If PDA were still at the helm I'd be in favor of trading the pick. If Petrie were GM I'd be adamant about keeping it. With Vlade, who knows? But Damien Lillard, Brandon Roy and Nerlens Noel all went 6th in the last few years. Curry went 7th. Andre Drummond and Paul George went 9th. Klay Thompson went 11th.
I'd rather roll the dice on grabbing a real building block than a talent upgrade at PG that may not pay proportional benefits on the court due to fit and who would eat up more caproom. Unless Landry goes out as part of the deal I wouldn't even consider it.
And don't get me started on Faried and why that's a poor move for the Kings.
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sidney
Starter
Didn't the Clippers play Chris Paul and Collison together quite a bit? I honestly can't remember how well that worked but I wonder if the idea would be to bring in Lawson and keep Collison in order to bring better ball handling to the 2 spot for part of the time.
I don't think Lawson is worth the 6. If he is they better be sending back a crap sandwich along with it to free up another move.
I don't think Lawson is worth the 6. If he is they better be sending back a crap sandwich along with it to free up another move.
The problem is that he makes so much there isn't anything we could send back that would free up other moves. The two worst deals we would have are Landry and JT. Send those two along with the #6 and you basically save $500k plus the cost of the #6 salary (so a total of about $3M). Even if you went with the occasional tiny platoon of Lawson/DC, we'd still need to upgrade the backcourt with a shooter/defender plus get even more front court help.
I'm so tired of the Lawson talk. If Karl wasn't the coach, this wouldn't even be a conversation.
Ty Lawson's off the court stuff kind of worries me. When the team stops winning, he ran into troubles. The Kings haven't won in a long time.
Collison wasn't an issue last year. The backup PG was an issue, and if the team had Andre Miller instead of Ramon Sessions at the start of the season? I feel like the year would have played out much better for all involved.
That said, Lawson is a big offensive upgrade over both. I think the issue is that the Kings need to make two important upgrades to sniff the playoffs next year and so the question becomes does trading for Lawson cost them too many assets to accomplish that two-upgrade goal?
Collison wasn't an issue last year. The backup PG was an issue, and if the team had Andre Miller instead of Ramon Sessions at the start of the season? I feel like the year would have played out much better for all involved.
That said, Lawson is a big offensive upgrade over both. I think the issue is that the Kings need to make two important upgrades to sniff the playoffs next year and so the question becomes does trading for Lawson cost them too many assets to accomplish that two-upgrade goal?
ockingsfan
Starter
I am okay with trading for Lawson, as long as you don't send the #6 pick for him.
We would be better off drafting whoever falls to us, Mudiay or WCS with the 6th pick and filling in the back up roles with solid role players
We would be better off drafting whoever falls to us, Mudiay or WCS with the 6th pick and filling in the back up roles with solid role players
Exactly and excellent post.
Wasting the #6 pick on a position we don't even need to upgrade for now is just stupid.
K
KingMilz
Guest
That's what Lawson is.......hés changed his game to more of one since he came into the NBA, Lawson is far from a score first PG nowdays. He's had to score in the past due to not playing with a go to guy for most his career.
ockingsfan
Starter
Either we draft WCS with the #6 pick or we get lucky and Mudiay slides to us at #6 and then we would not need Lawson.
We better not trade the #6 pick for Lawson.
I would not mind trading a combo of DC and Nik for Lawson though, but the #6 pick needs to stay with the Kings.
We better not trade the #6 pick for Lawson.
I would not mind trading a combo of DC and Nik for Lawson though, but the #6 pick needs to stay with the Kings.
Mike
Bench
Let's say that Mudiay falls to us at #6, Karl wants Ty Lawson, and the Nuggets want to blow up their roster.
Would we consider doing a trade like: Mudiay + plus someone like Landry, JT, Nik etc = Ty Lawson + Kenneth Faried or Wilson Chandler (could be a decent sixth man?)?
I'll be honest, I'd probably rather ride with Mudiay and Collison, but Ty Lawson's scoring and distribution is appealing.
Would we consider doing a trade like: Mudiay + plus someone like Landry, JT, Nik etc = Ty Lawson + Kenneth Faried or Wilson Chandler (could be a decent sixth man?)?
I'll be honest, I'd probably rather ride with Mudiay and Collison, but Ty Lawson's scoring and distribution is appealing.
ockingsfan
Starter
I would trade #6 (Mudiay) and Nik and Landry for Denver's #7 pick and Lawson.
And we can draft WCS or whoever is left on the board of WCS, Winslow, Johnson, or Turner.
Nugget fans are kind of delusional. On their websites, they wanted trades like Lawson+Chandler for #4 pick...
Iced Espresso
Starter
I honestly believe it would take our pick without theirs in return. And from where we are sitting with Collison, it's just not a good trade to even think about.
Faried is the intriguing guy to me on their roster, hard to place his value, could see it neutral for some teams contract wise, and a bad contract for others. But under the right circumstances it could work.
Unless it is Chandler though, I really don't want to trade with them, but with Pete and Karl's past who knows what is going to happen.
It always comes down to situation: Knicks don't own their own pick next year, Melo is not getting younger and can't wait, and they can't let Brooklyn to be best NY team one more year, so for Knicks getting Lawson, Chandler and another asset for #4+Calderon is a good deal. Bring Monroe to play C, fill the bench, and they are probably good enough for POs.
IfAt1st
Starter
The Timberwolves could -no joke- probably be in the Eastern PO's next year.
Hopefully the NBA makes changes as soon as next year and stops this absurd decades-long pageant that is the Eastern Conference Playoffs.
K
KingMilz
Guest
WOW.......I don''t know about that
Feel free to let me know why.
ockingsfan
Starter
Looks like Lawson and Faried may be traded by the draft for the rebuilding Nuggets.
http://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci...-josh-kroenke-has-work-cut-out-him?source=rss
If George Karl has a say, I can see the Kings sending out some sort of package of #6 pick, DC, Nik, Landry and JT for Lawson and Faried and a 2015 second round pick.
If that happens, the Kings would need to sign a bunch of mid level talent to fill in the roster.
I'm not saying it will happen, but I wouldn't be surprised.
http://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci...-josh-kroenke-has-work-cut-out-him?source=rss
If George Karl has a say, I can see the Kings sending out some sort of package of #6 pick, DC, Nik, Landry and JT for Lawson and Faried and a 2015 second round pick.
If that happens, the Kings would need to sign a bunch of mid level talent to fill in the roster.
I'm not saying it will happen, but I wouldn't be surprised.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Yeah, I had pondered the Lawson for #6 + Stauskas +Landry angle. Having DC would be so useful nad give us a strong PG spot with some SG swin help. But Fareid is a solid player too.
Lots of interesting midlevel players this year. If you could just keep on signing all of them you could get it done. Give me Koufos and Mbah a Moute and Bellinelli and Neal and bring back Omri and Miller and Reggie on minimum deals and:
Cousins
Gay
Lawson
Faried
McLemore
Koufos
Bellinelli
Mbah a Moute
Neal
Casspi
Evans
Miller
is deepish. But its a fantasy because you can't sign all those midlelvel guys. You end up having to sign an unrealistic number of minimum contact guys. I don't think you can afford the salaries of both Lawson and Faried at the same time. Either/or, but not both.
IfAt1st
Starter
When is this ridiculous pursuit of Lawson and Faried going to end?!
Why would we help out the Nuggets by taking their bad contracts, and crippling Kings future flexibility?
Faried is just starting his 4 year, $50 million contract!
Lawson makes $7 million more than DC! Is he 250% better than DC?
Can't WCS run the floor about as well as Faried? And WCS is ~4 inches taller than Faried.
How does taking on much worse contracts for arguably similar players help the Kings?
Why would we help out the Nuggets by taking their bad contracts, and crippling Kings future flexibility?
Faried is just starting his 4 year, $50 million contract!
Lawson makes $7 million more than DC! Is he 250% better than DC?
Can't WCS run the floor about as well as Faried? And WCS is ~4 inches taller than Faried.
How does taking on much worse contracts for arguably similar players help the Kings?
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