Tropical Island Music Artist Draft - FINIS

[uolj]

On allmusic.com older composers have a "Works" page. Modern composers have a "Songs" page. You could just say that you get whatever is in the "Works" or "Songs" page (or both if anybody has both).

 

[Prophetess]

I had thought about it, but wondered how it would work, if it gets too complicated, we can eliminate them all together.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I'm not sure what you mean. I think the allmusic listing matches the rules as specified here and is a good choice for a neutral "arbiter" or at least reference for any type of question like that. Cruisin' is listed under Huey Lewis' page and separately under Gwyneth Paltrow's page. That's how it is expected as it is a duet under our rules here.

I was pointing out that rateyourmusic.com might not be as good as allmusic, since it doesn't match the rules listed here in this case (it has a single artist page for the duet even though they only did a duet on the one song). Hope that's clearer.

Sorry I went back and checked Huey Lewis and a quick glance I didn't see Cruisin' so I thought you were disputing using allmusic. But my larger point is still that if someone actually is going to argue about Huey and Gwyneth then maybe I should sit this out. Common sense people.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Re: Composers
My thoughts are best to go with performing/recording artists. There are many, many artists who I am sure will be selected so I won't name them that didn't write any of their hit songs either.

 

[Warhawk]

Brick, I would go with your option #2, where you can pick the performer and if they had covered Mozart's works, then you get them that way.

I hadn't really considered drafting something that would fall under this category as, like movies, I was going to draft things I listen to over and over. And classical, while enjoyable to an extent, isn't really high on that list. Not until late, perhaps, if I happen find a way to do it that makes sense for my list.

 

[uolj]

But my larger point is still that if someone actually is going to argue about Huey and Gwyneth then maybe I should sit this out. Common sense people.

I guess my plan worked. I purposely tried to pick an example (like Bricklayer tends to do) that would be unlikely to be a sticking point in the real draft. Maybe somebody will draft Huey Lewis, but I doubt they will care if they don't get Cruisin'. It's possible someone would draft Captain and Tennille, but will they really care if they don't Tennille's solo work?

There are actual examples of this that will get picked, though, so the discussion was worth having. I just didn't want to expose people's preferences too much by picking likely selections for the examples.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Yeah but Brick also threw out Joan Jett who I do suspect will get picked and I definitely have my finger on the Captain as a late round sleeper.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

A question has been raised via PM that has me scratching my head looking for solutions.

All of the above rules of course are aimed at popular music. The question raised is what to do if somebody wants to draft a composer such as Mozart (I think modern composers might be even more probelmatic for several reasons), who of course never recorded his own music, really was mostly jsut a songwriter, and yet has a definable catalog covered by thousands of entities worldwide.

Possibilities include:
1) just say nope, this is a Performing Artist draft, can't do composers
2) focus on the release/recording aspect, which would rule out pre-recording era composers. Classical music could then be acquired by drafting "The Mormon Tabernacle Choir" or some other group who had performed and released the piece in question, same as any other cover song.
3) allow composers as some sort of special case, the difficulty then being in defining what is a composer and how does that differ from a popular music artist writing a song that goes on to be sung by another -- under pop music rules that is the performing artist's song, not the songwriter's. Under classical music rules, the composer is the key, not the performer. Get around this by focusing on who performed it first? But then there still would not be an original "Mozart" recording to draft, just an infinite set of covers which otherwise belong to other artists/entities.

For how many people would the resolution of this question matter -- i.e. how many of you had thoughts of drafting classicla music or composers?

There's a couple of composers I'd consider drafting the works of if it were allowed.

 

[Bricklayer]

Okay, well I have a thought for the rule. I'll formulate it for tommorow morning when I am fresher, and find a third party to do our randomizing for us, and then we'll be ready to go.

 

[Bricklayer]

Okay, got the rule in place, shot Jespher an email seeing if he would run the randomizer. If he doesn't pick it up by this evening, I'll just do it myself because of course I wouldn't cheat...or would I.

After that I'll shoot everybody a let's go email, and we'll be off.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

So can you draft a modern day stick waver, errr conductor, who is not an author of music him or herself, but who perhaps made people rethink classical arrangements somehow?

While I have no intention of touching the stuff, I certainly don't want anyone to feel inhibited from selecting this classic stuff and leaving bands I might like on the table for me to select. Also it will make the voting rounds a lot easier

 

[Bricklayer]

So can you draft a modern day stick waver, errr conductor, who is not an author of music him or herself, but who perhaps made people rethink classical arrangements somehow?

no...and yes. You can draft anybody who has put music out under his/her/their name. Such a modern conductor or orchestra (ala my Mormon Tabernacle Choir example) is just basically a group doing covers. Just whoever gets selected, modern or from previous eras, has to have actually performed the stuff and in the mdoern era, to have made a recording of it. And in order for a pre-recording era conductor to get credit he has to have written AND performed his music. Not really that hard. And anybody attempting too hard to squirm through some hole left by these guidelines will be summarily squished like a bug and called back to order.

As an aside, I could add in a "no pure cover band/orchestra" rule if that is going to be a problem.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I guess what I was asking was would you draft Mormon Tabernacle Choir - J. Smith Conductor and then I could draft Mormon Tabernacle Choir - B. Young Conductor?

I don't think I like the no pure cover band/orchestra idea because that might preclude some smaller acts that do modern stuff. Not that I am going to pick any. But if there were a woodwind quintet that solely performed classical interpretations of 90s gangsta rap I might actually like to know about that.

 

[Bricklayer]

I guess what I was asking was would you draft Mormon Tabernacle Choir - J. Smith Conductor and then I could draft Mormon Tabernacle Choir - B. Young Conductor?

I don't think I like the no pure cover band/orchestra idea because that might preclude some smaller acts that do modern stuff. Not that I am going to pick any. But if there were a woodwind quintet that solely performed classical interpretations of 90s gangsta rap I might actually like to know about that.

as far as I know modern music isn't put out under conductors names, but some symphonies do put out series.

and really I don't think classical music was put out under contductor's names either, despite the artificial focus on ti in the rule. Mozart was celebrated for his ability to write music, not for his ability to wave a little stick. That's why the genre is an awkward fit in a performing artist draft. Mozart might have known more about music than every pop star ever born put together, but he wasn't a performer like that (aside perhaps from pop culure showing him playing the harpsicord ettc.). This rule is just an attempt to fit a square peg into a round hole.

 

[Dime Dropper]

To Proph, or anyone else who may not be particularly bothered about this, I'd be happy to step in if you'd prefer not to participate. Late to the party, but would like to give it a go. That said, don't go giving up any spots if you're interested in it.

 

[Warhawk]

To Proph, or anyone else who may not be particularly bothered about this, I'd be happy to step in if you'd prefer not to participate. Late to the party, but would like to give it a go. That said, don't go giving up any spots if you're interested in it.

Take mine. I really was just filling a spot. Be happy to have someone else do it and have some fun with it.

 

[uolj]

To Proph, or anyone else who may not be particularly bothered about this, I'd be happy to step in if you'd prefer not to participate. Late to the party, but would like to give it a go. That said, don't go giving up any spots if you're interested in it.

You can have my spot. I was only offering my services as a last resort. Being away for the first week of drafting would be fairly difficult anyway.



Edit: Doh! Jinx.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

as far as I know modern music isn't put out under conductors names, but some symphonies do put out series.

Sorry, don't listen to the stuff, don't really care, wish we weren't even including it... but I do seem to recall at least one rather important orchestra that was well known for who was conducting them in the 70s and 80s as well as the current conductor, so that's why I ask.

 

[Bricklayer]

You can have my spot. I was only offering my services as a last resort. Being away for the first week of drafting would be fairly difficult anyway.



Edit: Doh! Jinx.

Ok, let's get this sorted. OUt of Warhawk, uolj, and Dime Dropper. which 2 are drafting, and who is out? Was going to randomize here, but probably better to get this sorted first so that the results don't suddenly change any minds

 

[Dime Dropper]

Well, I'll happily take a spot, doesn't matter to me which, but only if Warhawk and uolj genuinely aren't interested in drafting. I have an interest in this, but it is not a big one, just a curious type of one. So if both of you guys want to do it, feel free. If not, I'll gobble up that spot.

Thanks, BTW, for the offers.

 

[Warhawk]

I think uolj probably has more interest in the contest than I do, other than being out the first week. Really, I am happy to back out, but if uolj doesn't want to play I will just to keep it going. I am just doing it to have enough players. Prefer to watch this one from the outside instead if possible.

 

[Bricklayer]

grr...

Alright...Warhawk -- out on your ***. You'll find your things in a box by the curb.

Dime Dropper you are in, taking Wardove's place.

Uolj, you are also in...whether you like it or not.


Any complaints will be filed in the appropriate circular filing cabinet.

And with that, tired of waiting, so let's randomize and go.

 

[Bricklayer]

Randomizer results:

8
9
11
16
2
1
14
12
5
6
15
10
7
13
4
3

Translated that means
1) No Bonus
2) Henkel
3) dukeswh
4) Prophetess
5) sackings7
6) kingsnation
7) webbfan
8) Capt. Factorial
9) Bricklayer
10) Jespher
11) uolj
12) pdxfan
13) jalfa
14) Dime Dropper
15) william blake
16) rookieoftheday

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Randomizer results:

8
9
11
16
2
1
14
12
5
6
15
10
7
13
4
3

Translated that means
1) No Bonus
2) Henkel
3) dukeswh
4) Prophetess
5) sackings7
6) kingsnation
7) webbfan
8) Capt. Factorial
9) Bricklayer
10) Jespher
11) uolj
12) pdxfan
13) jalfa
14) Dime Dropper
15) william blake
16) rookieoftheday

I was gonna say you guys conspired for me to pick last, haha. But then I realized that means I get to pick back to back which is sweet.

 

[Bricklayer]

I was gonna say you guys conspired for me to pick last, haha. But then I realized that means I get to pick back to back which is sweet.

indeed I would always prefer to pick last where I get a back to back then to pick in the middle of the pack where I am sitting and have no control whatsoever, having 16 picks between each fo your selections and jsut having to cross your fingers.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

indeed I would always prefer to pick last where I get a back to back then to pick in the middle of the pack where I am sitting and have no control whatsoever, having 16 picks between each fo your selections and jsut having to cross your fingers.

Yeah other than 1st, last is the place to be after the first round. It's half as much waiting over the course of the draft. i'm just afraid I'll lose a few of my favorite artists before it comes around to 16th the first time, but oh well, that's the way it rolls.

 

[Bricklayer]

NoBonus, you're on the clock.

 

[Bricklayer]

P.S. I promise not to screw the playoffs up on this one.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

What did we decide on drafting classical composers?

 

[Bricklayer]

What did we decide on drafting classical composers?

Rule i) -- some fugly cobbled together thing basicaly amounting to ok, but only if they also conducted their own music. Basically trying to focus on performance, not just songwriting.