Trading Tyreke... Unthinkable?

[John Galt]

I don't understand why he's considered untradeable for equal value. Would you ever trade him for picks - absolutely not. Woudl you trade him for two "pretty good" players - absolutely not. Would you trade him for Kevin Durant, Blake Griffin, Dwight Howard? I would. A top star big or SF was what I said - not a prospect. The basis for this is not whether Kemba Walker will ever be as good as Tyreke - it is whether you can afford not to have the best bully-pg in the NBA and instead have one of the best big men or small forwards in the NBA.

I'm reminded of the old story about Winston Churchill propositioning the woman on the train.

"Madam would you sleep with me for five thousand pounds?"
"Sir I suppose I would".
"How about for fifty pounds?"
"Sir! What kind of woman do you think i am??".
"We've already established that madam, now we're only dickering over price."


If you'd trade Reke for Blake or Howard or Durant, then he's not untradeable. If he's not untradeable, then having him mentally "on the table" does not mark you as someone who doesn't get it. It's just a matter of price. You should flame proposals to trade Reke for picks, prospects, cap room, or moveable parts - but musing about "the price of Reke" or whether Reke should be on the table doesn't deserve mocking responses I don't think.

I'm a Tyeke Evans fan.

 

[funkykingston]

No player is untradable. Everyone has a price, every player has a deal that would be stupid not to jump on.

Of course. I think Tyreke has a very high ceiling and that he and Cousins could really be a dominant duo if they develop individually and in how they play together. But there are obvious question marks surrounding Evans and above and beyond that, there are flat out better players in the NBA that I'd trade Tyreke for in a heartbeat if they were offered.

But that's not what this thread is about. This thread is about drafting a rookie PG at #7 (in what is being looked at as the weakest draft in a decade and in which the consensus best PG reminds me a LOT of Mike Conley and the next two are very clearly scoring guards) and using that as justification for trading Evans because he is the "odd man out".

This isn't about having a delusional sense of Tyreke's value, it's about not understanding how the prospect of drafting Kemba Walker means Geoff should start making calls about dealing Evans. There's a disconnect there.

From the OPs other posts it seems he thinks Tyreke's game doesn't lend itself to winning basketball and that he's more Steve Francis than Derrick Rose (in terms of ball dominant PGs and helping their teams win or lose, not in terms of game) and would like to see him traded for equal value and that would benefit the Kings more than Tyreke being on the squad.

If that's the outlook, then fine. I don't agree but I can at least understand that opinion. But don't tell me that drafting Kemba Walker is the catalyst for shopping Evans. That just doesn't make sense.

Another reason whay I am hoping we pick up a big or strong or both SF this offseason. Closes the last hole and means that Mike Conley has to guard a guy he just cannot guard.

I've advocated a Casspi and top 5 protected 2012 1st rounder for Iguodala because his defense, passing and ballhandling would be nice assets to have at the 3 and it presents physical players at each of the PG/SG/SF spots. Not to mention the idea that Iguodala could slide to the 2 when Thorton takes a breather and someone like Donte, this year's first rounder (Vesely, Leonard, Singleton, Hamilton?) or a FA pick up could move to the 3 really creating havoc in the backcourt for opposing defenses.

Its funny that the OP thinks Kemba Walker and Brandon Knight are more traditional PGs than Tyreke. Why? Because of their statures? Kemba Walker's game reminds me off a less explosive AI or maybe even Damon Stoudamire. Brandon Knight reminds me of Jason Terry coming out of college. They are all combo guards except, Tyreke is in a 6'6 225 lb frame and he's 21 years old and still developing.

I'd agree that both Walker and Knight have more traditional PG skills than Tyreke, but I don't see them as ever being better players, especially Walker. I actually think Knight would be a good pickup and eventual replacement for Beno as the 3rd guard. But that would be because he compliments Tyreke and not because he makes him expendable.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

If you'd trade Reke for Blake or Howard or Durant, then he's not untradeable. If he's not untradeable, then having him mentally "on the table" does not mark you as someone who doesn't get it. It's just a matter of price. You should flame proposals to trade Reke for picks, prospects, cap room, or moveable parts - but musing about "the price of Reke" or whether Reke should be on the table doesn't deserve mocking responses I don't think.

I'm a Tyeke Evans fan.

Those guys aren't going to get traded or offered for Reke either so its kind of a moot point. The only reason you trade guys like that is because they say "Screw you, I hate your team, I hate the city, I'm leaving as soon as I can". That wasn't the original topic of conversation, which revolved around trading for lesser talent and a pick.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

I've advocated a Casspi and top 5 protected 2012 1st rounder for Iguodala because his defense, passing and ballhandling would be nice assets to have at the 3 and it presents physical players at each of the PG/SG/SF spots. Not to mention the idea that Iguodala could slide to the 2 when Thorton takes a breather and someone like Donte, this year's first rounder (Vesely, Leonard, Singleton, Hamilton?) or a FA pick up could move to the 3 really creating havoc in the backcourt for opposing defenses.

thats a pretty good trade.

 

[John Galt]

Those guys aren't going to get traded or offered for Reke either so its kind of a moot point. The only reason you trade guys like that is because they say "Screw you, I hate your team, I hate the city, I'm leaving as soon as I can". That wasn't the original topic of conversation, which revolved around trading for lesser talent and a pick.

If you read the first post again I don't think he said trade TYREKE in a deal to move up. He talked about pick 7 or maybe a tradeup to pick 2 (I don't believe he meant use Tyreke in the transaction to get pick 2). Then... once the smoke is cleared and you have a new young guard from this draft - do you start assessing what Tyreke might fetch. He took a big chance saying that on this board for sure... but I don't think it was an outlandish topic like some of the most gung ho of the Tyreke Messiah are suggesting.

 

[Tetsujin]

Those guys aren't going to get traded or offered for Reke either so its kind of a moot point. The only reason you trade guys like that is because they say "Screw you, I hate your team, I hate the city, I'm leaving as soon as I can". That wasn't the original topic of conversation, which revolved around trading for lesser talent and a pick.

This. Would I trade Tyreke for Kevin Durant or D Rose? Hell yes. Will that trade ever happen? Hell no. And trading Reke for what you're likely to be offered at this point is like trading a wallet for someone's spare change.

The Thunder are having some recent trouble with Westbrook. Are they ever going to trade him? No. Why? Because he's freaking good. You trade up, not down.

 

[funkykingston]

I didn't misread the first post at all. Walker or Knight don't make Tyreke expendable on any planet. Again, if the Kings don't feel like they can build around Evans, or that they can trade him for a better player then they can look to deal him.

But drafting a combo guard from a weak draft is hardly the impetus to trade a guy who averaged 20-5-5 in his first (ROY winning) season and who right now looks to be one of the two cornerstones of this team.

That's cart WAY before the horse stuff. If a can't-miss deal comes along for Evans then you pull the trigger. Who the Kings draft in a few weeks shouldn't (and won't) have any bearing on Tyreke's future with this team.

 

[John Galt]

I didn't misread the first post at all. Walker or Knight don't make Tyreke expendable on any planet. Again, if the Kings don't feel like they can build around Evans, or that they can trade him for a better player then they can look to deal him.

But drafting a combo guard from a weak draft is hardly the impetus to trade a guy who averaged 20-5-5 in his first (ROY winning) season and who right now looks to be one of the two cornerstones of this team.

That's cart WAY before the horse stuff. If a can't-miss deal comes along for Evans then you pull the trigger. Who the Kings draft in a few weeks should (and won't) have any bearing on Tyreke's future with this team.

That's a pretty damn well stated point.

 

[Kingster]

Don't know how much of Thornton's play you saw down the stretch, but he has the potential to just KILL opposing PGs, including having a strong 6'4" guard postgame that kind of reminds me of Mobley's a bit. Much as I have long coveted the 6'7" SG to stick next to Reke and make things impossible for opposing teams, the height alone is not the critical issue. Its important, but for instance if Cisco is the SG he's a much easier matchup fro a PG than is Marcus. What a small PG can't handle out of a SG is the forceefulness. Cisco is basically a jumpshooter,. and while he could shoot right over PGs, teams would live with that before they'd live with Reke steamrolling their midgets. But now Marcus, his game is very forceful. He drives hard, he posts up, he works the offensive glass. Its not the ideal pairing that frees Reke, but it is a pairing that is going to free SOMEBODY in our backcourt. You can't hide your PG on either one withotu threat of him being just physically overwhelmed, and that's kind of what you are looking for from that spot. Another reason whay I am hoping we pick up a big or strong or both SF this offseason. Closes the last hole and means that Mike Conley has to guard a guy he just cannot guard.

And of course neither Tyreke nor Thornton can guard Conley, or other quick on quick pgs for that matter. Still, that seems like a doable tandem. My only concern is getting the ball past the half court line and setting up the offense. I'll assume that Thornton sets up the offense most of the time (based upon Tyreke's poor performance in that area so far). So, faced with the lightning quick point guards this league has to offer, how is Thornton going to do in setting up the offense? Frankly, I paid more attention to Thornton's great shooting than this area, so I'm open to opinions on the matter....

 

[Bricklayer]

And of course neither Tyreke nor Thornton can guard Conley, or other quick on quick pgs for that matter. Still, that seems like a doable tandem. My only concern is getting the ball past the half court line and setting up the offense. I'll assume that Thornton sets up the offense most of the time (based upon Tyreke's poor performance in that area so far). So, faced with the lightning quick point guards this league has to offer, how is Thornton going to do in setting up the offense? Frankly, I paid more attention to Thornton's great shooting than this area, so I'm open to opinions on the matter....

Er...Marcus Thornton is not going to set up the offense over Tyreke Evans. That's silly. Reke will bring the ball up, just as he has done. he will probably do his thing on the right angle, which is his preferred side seemingly. Cousins will set up on the left angle or block, which seems to be his preferred side. Some offense will run through each. I like the idea of a Thornton pick and roll with Cousins, as soon as somebody teaches Westphal that play. Then how the rest plays out depends on the SF. Daly obviously will not be a major hub if he's back, although we will likely use him for the occasional surprise backdoor pass. But the type fo SF we get determines whether the offense wil be run through 2 guys in Reke and Cousins, or whether a third creative player will be there to run diferent plays through. With Thronton, Reke and Cousins you've already got more main offensive hubs out there than either of the starting lineups in the WCF (Westbrook, Durant only middling passer, nothing at all from Thabo, Ibaka, Perkins vs. Kidd, Dirk only a middling passer, Marion a notoriously poor passer, nothign from Stevenson or Chandler). The SF may just be gravy.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Of course. I think Tyreke has a very high ceiling and that he and Cousins could really be a dominant duo if they develop individually and in how they play together. But there are obvious question marks surrounding Evans and above and beyond that, there are flat out better players in the NBA that I'd trade Tyreke for in a heartbeat if they were offered.

But that's not what this thread is about. This thread is about drafting a rookie PG at #7 (in what is being looked at as the weakest draft in a decade and in which the consensus best PG reminds me a LOT of Mike Conley and the next two are very clearly scoring guards) and using that as justification for trading Evans because he is the "odd man out".

This isn't about having a delusional sense of Tyreke's value, it's about not understanding how the prospect of drafting Kemba Walker means Geoff should start making calls about dealing Evans. There's a disconnect there.

From the OPs other posts it seems he thinks Tyreke's game doesn't lend itself to winning basketball and that he's more Steve Francis than Derrick Rose (in terms of ball dominant PGs and helping their teams win or lose, not in terms of game) and would like to see him traded for equal value and that would benefit the Kings more than Tyreke being on the squad.

If that's the outlook, then fine. I don't agree but I can at least understand that opinion. But don't tell me that drafting Kemba Walker is the catalyst for shopping Evans. That just doesn't make sense.



I've advocated a Casspi and top 5 protected 2012 1st rounder for Iguodala because his defense, passing and ballhandling would be nice assets to have at the 3 and it presents physical players at each of the PG/SG/SF spots. Not to mention the idea that Iguodala could slide to the 2 when Thorton takes a breather and someone like Donte, this year's first rounder (Vesely, Leonard, Singleton, Hamilton?) or a FA pick up could move to the 3 really creating havoc in the backcourt for opposing defenses.



I'd agree that both Walker and Knight have more traditional PG skills than Tyreke, but I don't see them as ever being better players, especially Walker. I actually think Knight would be a good pickup and eventual replacement for Beno as the 3rd guard. But that would be because he compliments Tyreke and not because he makes him expendable.

First of all, this is not and will not be the weakest draft in the last 10 years. There will be some pretty good players out of this draft, without a doubt. What really surprises me is how you compared Irving to Conley. Could you elaborate on that? I just don't see any similarities at all (apart from the fact that they look vaguely like one another which is why I think he reminds you of him). Irving is a better passer, playmaker, scorer, shooter, athlete, and is also smarter, a harder worker, and has far, far more upside than Conley ever had. I think it's gotten to the point where people are seriously underating Irving's talent.

Alot of people don't see it, but Irving is going to be a very good player. He is too smart and talented not to be. I watched Rose when he was in college probably more than any other player I've seen at the collegiate level. I was adamant even before he was drafted that he would be a HOF'er. I was laughed at. Well, it's looking like I was right. Sometimes its just crystal clear that a player has the talent, smarts and work ethic to be truly great. While I don't think Irving is going to reach Rose's level, he is going to be a very, very good PG.

 

[Spike]

I was adamant even before he was drafted that he would be a HOF'er. I was laughed at. Well, it's looking like I was right.

Whoah there, hoss. One season does not a HOF make. Let's let him win a title or two first, huh?

Other than that, I can agree with the main premise of your post, in that we won't know what we won't know until they lace 'em up in the fall. Good players can be had - the challenge will be to find them.
I think this draft will also be more dependent on the right fit for each player, as there aren't any real superstars that can transcend whatever team they've been placed on.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Whoah there, hoss. One season does not a HOF make. Let's let him win a title or two first, huh?

Other than that, I can agree with the main premise of your post, in that we won't know what we won't know until they lace 'em up in the fall. Good players can be had - the challenge will be to find them.
I think this draft will also be more dependent on the right fit for each player, as there aren't any real superstars that can transcend whatever team they've been placed on.

My point was that he's a HOF level talent, and would perform as such at the next level. Suffice to say that barring a drastic fall-off or injury, Rose is going to be one of those guys. There are some players who just have can't-miss talent.

 

[upinsmoke]

I would give him one more year to show he can mesh with DMC the way we all hope they both can play off each other. If not I would change his role to a sixth man type player and if he cant handle that then move him.

 

[Glenn]

I would give him one more year to show he can mesh with DMC the way we all hope they both can play off each other. If not I would change his role to a sixth man type player and if he cant handle that then move him.

Are you talking about Tyreke?

 

[upinsmoke]

yes the title of the thread is "trading tyreke...Unthinkable?"

 

[Spike]

I would give him one more year to show he can mesh with DMC the way we all hope they both can play off each other. If not I would change his role to a sixth man type player and if he cant handle that then move him.

Aside from the crazy notion, the main problem with that is that there isn't anyone currently on our roster or in Free Agency that would supplant him to that role.

 

[upinsmoke]

You mean Thornton can't play starting 2?

These are just ideas fellas nobody wants to get rid of Reke right now were just kicking around the idea...

 

[Agent23]

Can't believe people are willing to give up on a player after an injury plagued 2nd year. Especially after showing superstar potential during his 1st and flashes of it when healthy this year. Obviously, he's not off limits, but the guys you would be willing to receive back in a trade aren't available to be traded. Can we all wait at least till he's in the last year of his rookie contract before we as a fanbase fairly judge that he is done developing?

 

[Chupacabra]

I dont know about all this hocus pocus. Last time i checked Russell Westbrook isnt a "true point guard" and the Thunder still seem to be doing pretty well. Its not like an elite team cant be put together without an all wise, all passing point guard on the floor. Theres no set formula. Evans is an amazing talent and I dont see a scenario in the immediate future where the Kings would actually benefit from trading him.

 

[TheWileyVet]

Just the thought of trading Tyreke is mind boggling. There are VERY FEW ppl we could receive to make the trade worth it. Tyreke and DMC are basically untouchable.

 

[est.1999]

Nothing about Reke's game screams "6th man".

 

[rainmaker]

Reading through this thread is having a negative effect on my IQ.

 

[Glenn]

Reading through this thread is having a negative effect on my IQ.

Huh!?!?!? I don't understand.

 

[SacKings7]

I dont know about all this hocus pocus. Last time i checked Russell Westbrook isnt a "true point guard" and the Thunder still seem to be doing pretty well. Its not like an elite team cant be put together without an all wise, all passing point guard on the floor. Theres no set formula. Evans is an amazing talent and I dont see a scenario in the immediate future where the Kings would actually benefit from trading him.

Yeah, if you look at the 4 remaining teams in the playoffs, only Kidd is a true point guard. He so happens to be one of the top 3 of all time, but still. Westbrook and Rose are shoot-first PG's, and Miami's PG is irrelevant. I don't see any reason why Tyreke can't excel as a labelled PG in this league. He'll never lead the league in assists, but so what? Neither will Rose or Westbrook, and their teams seem to be doing just fine. Where are Nash and Paul right now?

 

[kingsboi]

At the moment, no way you trade Tyreke so young and so unfufilled yet. He's going to improve hopefully and we just have to be patient because not everybody can be a all-star in their first or second year and lead their team to the playoffs. I do however want to see Tyreke's work ethic change, I'm sure he works pretty hard and all but he needs to find some new personnel to help him utilize his potential as much as possible. He also needs to learn to stop playing so slow and lazy which he has a tendancy to do. I think Reke will be fine so I won't be calling for his head anytime soon.

 

[Casspi]

i think we should trade out coach for not being able to create really anything with his roster in 2 years. unless you guys are fine with the weak end of the year lineup

 

[Rug King]

I wouldn't want to trade Tyreke and especially straight up for a draft pick this year. One thing I have to wonder about though is Tyreke's ankle's. He's sprained them bad so many times, who knows how long he can hold up each year. Tyreke doesn't have a jump shot yet so he has to rely on cutting to the basket. How long can the ankles hold up? It's something I thought about all last year. If a trade came around that served the Kings well, I'd have to look at it.

 

[Agent23]

i think we should trade out coach for not being able to create really anything with his roster in 2 years. unless you guys are fine with the weak end of the year lineup

Lol. Weak end of the year lineup? You mean the lineup that was winning games for this team? Or because Omri wasn't playing?

 

[Casspi]

Lol. Weak end of the year lineup? You mean the lineup that was winning games for this team? Or because Omri wasn't playing?

wow winning some games that didn't count for anything impressive
team looks horrible , no comment on your stupid second answer

i just think that with tyreke cousins dalambert casspi beno cicsco thorthon and etc you can do more then he did last year