Trading Our Cap Space

Wiggings 17.7 on 15.9 attempts.
Buddy 13.5 on 11.7 attempts.
Bogdan 11.8 on 9.9 attempts.

Instead of giving Wiggins 100+million and Minnesotta one of Buddy/Bogdan just give Buddy/Bogdan the extra shot attempts and they will outscore Wiggins. Besides, as Wiggins starts chucking up shot after shot while better shooters are standing open, sactowndog is going to have an aneurysm.. :)
It's all nice and stuffs, but stats don't translate like that. To be able to put up 17ppg, you need to be a good scorer. Can Buddy or Bogdan put up 17ppg while being defended by the other team's best perimeter defender? How will both players react when teams purposely plan their defense around said player? Can they counter-attack? Do they have enough offense? Buddy absolutely lacks a game to the basket. Bogdan's quickness has its limitations.

Just food for thought. During Wiggins "best" year the year before last where he scored 23.6ppg....he had nearly the same impact that Arron Afflalo had for us that same year. I think we all remember how awful AA was that year. On the Kings squad, only BMac was worse than Wiggins that year.
How are you counting this impact?

Win shares? Wiggins had 4.2 compared to Affalo's 1.4.

PER? Wiggins had 16.5 compared to Afflalo's 8.9.

Using VORP isn't a very good measuring stick. Using this, you're telling me Devin Booker had the same impact as WCS? Going back on topic, are you're seriously saying that a 23ppg scorer in Wiggins had the same impact as a 9ppg scorer in Afflalo?

Wiggins isn't worth his contract, but he's not a terrible player like some make him out to be. Wiggins is still younger than Buddy, WCS, and Bogdan. For all the hype our young players get, Wiggins would come in and easily not only be our best player, but also be the best prospect on this team. He's the player most closest to a superstar ceiling.

This is another Rudy Gay case. Believe it or not, Rudy Gay made 24% of the Raptor's cap similarly to Wiggins who makes around 25%. His People thought Gay was an inefficient chucker. That he was a selfish black hole. He didn't know how to pass. He took away shots from everyone else. He didn't play very good defense. Toronto no longer wanted him on his horrendous contract. He was becoming a plague on that young Raptors team. HORRIBLE locker room presence with a poor attitude. Teammates didn't get along with his play style. Cherry on top, he had a PER of 14.7! Does this sound familiar? The media absolutely murdered Gay.
What did he do once he came to Sacramento? He's become one of our best players of the decade. I think Wiggins is unfairly getting bagged on because he didn't live up to the media's expectations of "LEBRON JAMES 2.0". People also seem to dislike his contract. Minnesota gave him that horrendous contract. He didn't force them to do anything. Is anyone mad at Zach Randolph for collecting $12million? No, that's on the Kings.

Minnesota is easily one of the most dysfunctional franchises, but they get away with so much compared to the Kings. They draft just as horrible as we do... Flynn, Rubio, Johnson, and Williams. Wasted Kevin Love's prime. They lucked into KAT. Miraculously somehow developed LaVine. Sucked so bad they got a 2 top 10 picks in 2016 and 2017 to pair alongside Wiggins and KAT in their rebuild............ only to throw it all away along by trading LaVine, Markkanen, and Dunn for Jimmy Butler and Justin Patton. A trade done by Tom Thibodeau who's stuck in the DRose era... and now, the Wiggins contract? good god lol. None of this was worth a 1st round exit in 2018 with the Warrior's dynasty still in place.

Due to the sheer incompetence of that franchise, I don't think there's any way in hell they can afford to trade Wiggins. If Jimmy walks next year in FA, they are seriously screwed if they only have KAT on the team. If both Wiggins and Butler were gone, I could easily see KAT accepting the QO too.
 
It's all nice and stuffs, but stats don't translate like that. To be able to put up 17ppg, you need to be a good scorer. Can Buddy or Bogdan put up 17ppg while being defended by the other team's best perimeter defender? How will both players react when teams purposely plan their defense around said player? Can they counter-attack? Do they have enough offense? Buddy absolutely lacks a game to the basket. Bogdan's quickness has its limitations.
I see what you are saying, but the same thought process can be applied to Wiggins last year. He benefited from having Butler and KAT, two 20+ point scorers, on his team to draw away the defensive pressure. On the Kings, he would be the one the teams plan their defense around, he would be guarded by the wing defender that guarded Butler, and he would not have anyone near KAT's ability to play off. Furthermore, Bogdan and Buddy were guarded by opposing team's best perimeter defenders last year. They are our best wings, 2nd and 4th scorer (with ZBO 1st, WCS 3rd) so teams did concentrate on them when they played us cause there is was no one else to concentrate on! my guess is you put lets say Buddy on the Wolves with KAT and Butler and he could score 17 given the same amount of shots....
 
It's all nice and stuffs, but stats don't translate like that. To be able to put up 17ppg, you need to be a good scorer. Can Buddy or Bogdan put up 17ppg while being defended by the other team's best perimeter defender? How will both players react when teams purposely plan their defense around said player? Can they counter-attack? Do they have enough offense? Buddy absolutely lacks a game to the basket. Bogdan's quickness has its limitations.


How are you counting this impact?

Win shares? Wiggins had 4.2 compared to Affalo's 1.4.

PER? Wiggins had 16.5 compared to Afflalo's 8.9.

Using VORP isn't a very good measuring stick. Using this, you're telling me Devin Booker had the same impact as WCS? Going back on topic, are you're seriously saying that a 23ppg scorer in Wiggins had the same impact as a 9ppg scorer in Afflalo?

Wiggins isn't worth his contract, but he's not a terrible player like some make him out to be. Wiggins is still younger than Buddy, WCS, and Bogdan. For all the hype our young players get, Wiggins would come in and easily not only be our best player, but also be the best prospect on this team. He's the player most closest to a superstar ceiling.

This is another Rudy Gay case. Believe it or not, Rudy Gay made 24% of the Raptor's cap similarly to Wiggins who makes around 25%. His People thought Gay was an inefficient chucker. That he was a selfish black hole. He didn't know how to pass. He took away shots from everyone else. He didn't play very good defense. Toronto no longer wanted him on his horrendous contract. He was becoming a plague on that young Raptors team. HORRIBLE locker room presence with a poor attitude. Teammates didn't get along with his play style. Cherry on top, he had a PER of 14.7! Does this sound familiar? The media absolutely murdered Gay.
What did he do once he came to Sacramento? He's become one of our best players of the decade. I think Wiggins is unfairly getting bagged on because he didn't live up to the media's expectations of "LEBRON JAMES 2.0". People also seem to dislike his contract. Minnesota gave him that horrendous contract. He didn't force them to do anything. Is anyone mad at Zach Randolph for collecting $12million? No, that's on the Kings.

Minnesota is easily one of the most dysfunctional franchises, but they get away with so much compared to the Kings. They draft just as horrible as we do... Flynn, Rubio, Johnson, and Williams. Wasted Kevin Love's prime. They lucked into KAT. Miraculously somehow developed LaVine. Sucked so bad they got a 2 top 10 picks in 2016 and 2017 to pair alongside Wiggins and KAT in their rebuild............ only to throw it all away along by trading LaVine, Markkanen, and Dunn for Jimmy Butler and Justin Patton. A trade done by Tom Thibodeau who's stuck in the DRose era... and now, the Wiggins contract? good god lol. None of this was worth a 1st round exit in 2018 with the Warrior's dynasty still in place.

Due to the sheer incompetence of that franchise, I don't think there's any way in hell they can afford to trade Wiggins. If Jimmy walks next year in FA, they are seriously screwed if they only have KAT on the team. If both Wiggins and Butler were gone, I could easily see KAT accepting the QO too.

Last season Buddy gave me some flashbacks to Cuz early on in his career. Early on it seemed like Cuz would always show up against the supposed best defenders and highlight which gave me the impression that he'd be alright. I saw the same things from Buddy last year as well. He's so efficient at using screens, and his step back jumper is deadly when combined with that quick release. It's low so he'll get swatted from time to time, but for anyone that says Buddy can't create his own offense they need to watch some of this video.

 
I see what you are saying, but the same thought process can be applied to Wiggins last year. He benefited from having Butler and KAT, two 20+ point scorers, on his team to draw away the defensive pressure. On the Kings, he would be the one the teams plan their defense around, he would be guarded by the wing defender that guarded Butler, and he would not have anyone near KAT's ability to play off. Furthermore, Bogdan and Buddy were guarded by opposing team's best perimeter defenders last year. They are our best wings, 2nd and 4th scorer (with ZBO 1st, WCS 3rd) so teams did concentrate on them when they played us cause there is was no one else to concentrate on! my guess is you put lets say Buddy on the Wolves with KAT and Butler and he could score 17 given the same amount of shots....
In the preivous year, Wiggins averaged 23ppg without Butler and Teague last year. In the year before that, he averaged 20ppg with rookie KAT. In his rookie year, he averaged 16.9ppg on an abysmal team without KAT. So in his first 3 years, he was being guarded by the team's opposing best perimeter defender, and still averaged 20ppg. Scoring is the least of his problems. To do all of this with a "meh" 3pt shooting too, so just imagine what Wiggins had to work with in terms of floor spacing. I still don't think Buddy would've been a 17.7ppg scorer last year if he replaced Wiggins. IDK, because it would be saying Buddy is a 17.8ppg scorer on a playoff team. He couldn't even do that here on one of the worst teams in the NBA. Even with his good late-season emergence, his highest PPG month was in March and it was only 16.1ppg. For that reason.. I don't buy it.

Maybe he can do it next season. Idk...but I just hope he at least gets the opportunity to get 15 shots a game. I very much advocated for him to get more shots this season.


Last season Buddy gave me some flashbacks to Cuz early on in his career. Early on it seemed like Cuz would always show up against the supposed best defenders and highlight which gave me the impression that he'd be alright. I saw the same things from Buddy last year as well. He's so efficient at using screens, and his step back jumper is deadly when combined with that quick release. It's low so he'll get swatted from time to time, but for anyone that says Buddy can't create his own offense they need to watch some of this video.

The big difference is that by Cousins' 2nd year, he was already an 18ppg scorer. By 24yearsold, Cousins was already an All-Star.
I'm also a big Buddy fan. He still has some problems creating his own offense. Buddy heavily relies on contested jumpshots. His game at the basket is lacking. His ball handling while improved, still leaves a lot of questions for year 3 to be answered.
 
It's all nice and stuffs, but stats don't translate like that. To be able to put up 17ppg, you need to be a good scorer. Can Buddy or Bogdan put up 17ppg while being defended by the other team's best perimeter defender? How will both players react when teams purposely plan their defense around said player? Can they counter-attack? Do they have enough offense? Buddy absolutely lacks a game to the basket. Bogdan's quickness has its limitations.


How are you counting this impact?

Win shares? Wiggins had 4.2 compared to Affalo's 1.4.

PER? Wiggins had 16.5 compared to Afflalo's 8.9.

Using VORP isn't a very good measuring stick. Using this, you're telling me Devin Booker had the same impact as WCS? Going back on topic, are you're seriously saying that a 23ppg scorer in Wiggins had the same impact as a 9ppg scorer in Afflalo?

Wiggins isn't worth his contract, but he's not a terrible player like some make him out to be. Wiggins is still younger than Buddy, WCS, and Bogdan. For all the hype our young players get, Wiggins would come in and easily not only be our best player, but also be the best prospect on this team. He's the player most closest to a superstar ceiling.

This is another Rudy Gay case. Believe it or not, Rudy Gay made 24% of the Raptor's cap similarly to Wiggins who makes around 25%. His People thought Gay was an inefficient chucker. That he was a selfish black hole. He didn't know how to pass. He took away shots from everyone else. He didn't play very good defense. Toronto no longer wanted him on his horrendous contract. He was becoming a plague on that young Raptors team. HORRIBLE locker room presence with a poor attitude. Teammates didn't get along with his play style. Cherry on top, he had a PER of 14.7! Does this sound familiar? The media absolutely murdered Gay.
What did he do once he came to Sacramento? He's become one of our best players of the decade. I think Wiggins is unfairly getting bagged on because he didn't live up to the media's expectations of "LEBRON JAMES 2.0". People also seem to dislike his contract. Minnesota gave him that horrendous contract. He didn't force them to do anything. Is anyone mad at Zach Randolph for collecting $12million? No, that's on the Kings.

Minnesota is easily one of the most dysfunctional franchises, but they get away with so much compared to the Kings. They draft just as horrible as we do... Flynn, Rubio, Johnson, and Williams. Wasted Kevin Love's prime. They lucked into KAT. Miraculously somehow developed LaVine. Sucked so bad they got a 2 top 10 picks in 2016 and 2017 to pair alongside Wiggins and KAT in their rebuild............ only to throw it all away along by trading LaVine, Markkanen, and Dunn for Jimmy Butler and Justin Patton. A trade done by Tom Thibodeau who's stuck in the DRose era... and now, the Wiggins contract? good god lol. None of this was worth a 1st round exit in 2018 with the Warrior's dynasty still in place.

Due to the sheer incompetence of that franchise, I don't think there's any way in hell they can afford to trade Wiggins. If Jimmy walks next year in FA, they are seriously screwed if they only have KAT on the team. If both Wiggins and Butler were gone, I could easily see KAT accepting the QO too.
How many good teams are led by 20ppg scorers that have negative VORP ratings? Maybe the Afflalo comparison was a bit much but Wiggins is a losing player through and through.

https://www.basketball-reference.co...comp=gt&c1val=20&order_by=vorp&order_by_asc=Y

This is a list of all the 20ppg scorers since the year 2000 season ranked by VORP. There's only 5 seasons up there with negative VORP ratings and Wiggins takes 2 of them. Not to mention his other 2 years in the league are in the negative as well.

Devin Booker has low VORP ratings so far but his are ascending each year so his profile has all the makings of a player that can break out and potentially lead a team. People can crap on the stat all they want but it's no coincidence that all the good players in the league that lead their teams to success are at or near the top of the stat. The stat is even affected a bit by how good the team is overall. The TWolves were a playoff team last year and Wiggins still had awful metrics. I don't care how young he is. His statistical profile shows almost no signs of him developing into a winning basketball player.

Obviously I can't guarantee anything but I would be willing to bet a lot of money that Wiggins will never lead a playoff team as the first or second best player.
 
Houston still active talking trade and willing to take on a longer bad contract with Ryan Anderson involved but looking for some defensive help.

I’m sure they could use Koufos as a backup to Capela.....the other guy who fits that defensive mold role player could be Shumpert if they want to take the chance he’s able to perform. They would have to pony up something worth our while to take that albatross contract and I wouldn’t do it unless there were two firsts involved or a 1st and Melton

Even then, I just don’t think it’s worth the price to take that contract and would rather save the cap space and try and throw a max to someone next year.
 
Wiggings 17.7 on 15.9 attempts.
Buddy 13.5 on 11.7 attempts.
Bogdan 11.8 on 9.9 attempts.

Instead of giving Wiggins 100+million and Minnesotta one of Buddy/Bogdan just give Buddy/Bogdan the extra shot attempts and they will outscore Wiggins. Besides, as Wiggins starts chucking up shot after shot while better shooters are standing open, sactowndog is going to have an aneurysm.. :)
im shocked anyone would want Wiggins on this team. yuck, im sorry.
 
Last season Buddy gave me some flashbacks to Cuz early on in his career. Early on it seemed like Cuz would always show up against the supposed best defenders and highlight which gave me the impression that he'd be alright. I saw the same things from Buddy last year as well. He's so efficient at using screens, and his step back jumper is deadly when combined with that quick release. It's low so he'll get swatted from time to time, but for anyone that says Buddy can't create his own offense they need to watch some of this video.

You're confusing creating space with his jumper with creating his own offense.

Buddy is our new version of Peja and he may be an even better shooter. Bogdan is our new version of Christie minus the all team defense but far better on offense. Fox is obviously the new J-Will version minus the passing but better decision making and even more speed. Giles and Bagley? One could take the C-Webb role (Bagley?) and Giles could play the Divac role and our defense could come from there as opposed from the guard spot when we had Christie.

We are super young but if you squint hard enough there's a semblance of a roster that makes sense. WCS could be first big off the bench with JJ and Yogi off the bench.
 
In the preivous year, Wiggins averaged 23ppg without Butler and Teague last year. In the year before that, he averaged 20ppg with rookie KAT. In his rookie year, he averaged 16.9ppg on an abysmal team without KAT. So in his first 3 years, he was being guarded by the team's opposing best perimeter defender, and still averaged 20ppg. Scoring is the least of his problems. To do all of this with a "meh" 3pt shooting too, so just imagine what Wiggins had to work with in terms of floor spacing. I still don't think Buddy would've been a 17.7ppg scorer last year if he replaced Wiggins. IDK, because it would be saying Buddy is a 17.8ppg scorer on a playoff team. He couldn't even do that here on one of the worst teams in the NBA. Even with his good late-season emergence, his highest PPG month was in March and it was only 16.1ppg. For that reason.. I don't buy it.

Maybe he can do it next season. Idk...but I just hope he at least gets the opportunity to get 15 shots a game. I very much advocated for him to get more shots this season.



The big difference is that by Cousins' 2nd year, he was already an 18ppg scorer. By 24yearsold, Cousins was already an All-Star.
I'm also a big Buddy fan. He still has some problems creating his own offense. Buddy heavily relies on contested jumpshots. His game at the basket is lacking. His ball handling while improved, still leaves a lot of questions for year 3 to be answered.
Wiggins did have great scoring seasons but they were all a bit inefficient. I hope Buddy can become a similar type of scorer (lets say 18 ppg), but with more efficiency. I think all he needs is playing time and shot attempts. He has been doing things that will give him more playing time such as focusing when on defense and improving the same, improving his playmaking, etc.. I think he has gotten the message that he needs to be a more of an all around player to get playing time and he is working on it. This is the season when he should put it all together and show why he was the number 6th pick.
 
You're confusing creating space with his jumper with creating his own offense.

Buddy is our new version of Peja and he may be an even better shooter. Bogdan is our new version of Christie minus the all team defense but far better on offense. Fox is obviously the new J-Will version minus the passing but better decision making and even more speed. Giles and Bagley? One could take the C-Webb role (Bagley?) and Giles could play the Divac role and our defense could come from there as opposed from the guard spot when we had Christie.

We are super young but if you squint hard enough there's a semblance of a roster that makes sense. WCS could be first big off the bench with JJ and Yogi off the bench.

It's the same thing for players like that. Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, etc. Also, like I said, that step back is for real when combined with that crossover.
 
In the preivous year, Wiggins averaged 23ppg without Butler and Teague last year. In the year before that, he averaged 20ppg with rookie KAT. In his rookie year, he averaged 16.9ppg on an abysmal team without KAT. So in his first 3 years, he was being guarded by the team's opposing best perimeter defender, and still averaged 20ppg. Scoring is the least of his problems. To do all of this with a "meh" 3pt shooting too, so just imagine what Wiggins had to work with in terms of floor spacing. I still don't think Buddy would've been a 17.7ppg scorer last year if he replaced Wiggins. IDK, because it would be saying Buddy is a 17.8ppg scorer on a playoff team. He couldn't even do that here on one of the worst teams in the NBA. Even with his good late-season emergence, his highest PPG month was in March and it was only 16.1ppg. For that reason.. I don't buy it.

Maybe he can do it next season. Idk...but I just hope he at least gets the opportunity to get 15 shots a game. I very much advocated for him to get more shots this season.



The big difference is that by Cousins' 2nd year, he was already an 18ppg scorer. By 24yearsold, Cousins was already an All-Star.
I'm also a big Buddy fan. He still has some problems creating his own offense. Buddy heavily relies on contested jumpshots. His game at the basket is lacking. His ball handling while improved, still leaves a lot of questions for year 3 to be answered.
Another difference is that Cuz had a near 30 usg to Buddy's 24 and played 5 more minutes a game. In March and April when Buddy got a bit more opportunity he was putting up around 15 ppg on less shots per game and less minutes than Cuz. I'm not saying he's a Cuz level offensive talent, but I did see some of the same things where the other team focused on him and he rose to the occasion. I hope he gets the chance to do more. He still has kinks in his game, but so did Cuz.
 
Another difference is that Cuz had a near 30 usg to Buddy's 24 and played 5 more minutes a game. In March and April when Buddy got a bit more opportunity he was putting up around 15 ppg on less shots per game and less minutes than Cuz. I'm not saying he's a Cuz level offensive talent, but I did see some of the same things where the other team focused on him and he rose to the occasion. I hope he gets the chance to do more. He still has kinks in his game, but so did Cuz.

Hield can get 17-18 ppg game and a nice offensive weapon. But, he'll never be an All Star. Never. Rarely have I seen Hield take over a game and be the Alpha Dog. He cannot be compared to Cuz in any sense of the word. When Healthy Cuz is a Top 5 big man.

Bringing up 5 minutes? Great players make things happen with their elite talent level. Regardless of minutes and usage.

Hield is a Top 15-20 shooting guard. He looks better in Sac because of the serious lack of depth. But, put him on another team. A good team, he's no better than a third option.
 
I mentioned before trading for Solomon Hill/pick now the Hawks are interested in trading Kent Bazemore to the Pelicans but have no interest in Hill maybe we could get in on a three way deal (Rockets are also trying to swap Anderson for him).
 
No, just wait. Big game hunting only. The Wolves, Nuggets, Raptors, Blazers, Bucks, Pelicans and Wizards are all in make or break years. If any of them are just treading water come January there could be some interesting options available for teams with space/enders. On top of those teams, Jaylen Brown will be semi-available—no way he is good with sliding to the 4th or 5th option and being behind Tatum. Ainge will try his usual shenanigans though, so buyer beware, and he won’t trade us a good player Brown until the deadline and/or he unloads our 2019 pick somewhere else.
 
No, just wait. Big game hunting only. The Wolves, Nuggets, Raptors, Blazers, Bucks, Pelicans and Wizards are all in make or break years. If any of them are just treading water come January there could be some interesting options available for teams with space/enders. On top of those teams, Jaylen Brown will be semi-available—no way he is good with sliding to the 4th or 5th option and being behind Tatum. Ainge will try his usual shenanigans though, so buyer beware, and he won’t trade us a good player Brown until the deadline and/or he unloads our 2019 pick somewhere else.
He should unload the pick back to us so we can go through the joys of to tank or not to tank again :)
 
Hield can get 17-18 ppg game and a nice offensive weapon. But, he'll never be an All Star. Never. Rarely have I seen Hield take over a game and be the Alpha Dog. He cannot be compared to Cuz in any sense of the word. When Healthy Cuz is a Top 5 big man.

Bringing up 5 minutes? Great players make things happen with their elite talent level. Regardless of minutes and usage.

Hield is a Top 15-20 shooting guard. He looks better in Sac because of the serious lack of depth. But, put him on another team. A good team, he's no better than a third option.
We don’t need him to be. And we don’t want another cousins. We want ball
Movement and transition offense.
 
Hield can get 17-18 ppg game and a nice offensive weapon. But, he'll never be an All Star. Never. Rarely have I seen Hield take over a game and be the Alpha Dog. He cannot be compared to Cuz in any sense of the word. When Healthy Cuz is a Top 5 big man.

Bringing up 5 minutes? Great players make things happen with their elite talent level. Regardless of minutes and usage.

Hield is a Top 15-20 shooting guard. He looks better in Sac because of the serious lack of depth. But, put him on another team. A good team, he's no better than a third option.

It's hard for anyone to become the alpha with how Joerger platoons. The truth is there were more than a few games where without Buddy the Kings would have been down by astronomical numbers. He's was an alpha in college and I've seen enough to know that if given the chance he could do a lot of the sames things in the NBA.

And it has nothing to do with Sac. If anything as I stated above and how he's being played has been discussed in the past, it could be holding him back. He was one of the top 3 point shooters in the league, elite at catch and shoot, and was on a team looking mostly for inefficient mid range shots. Give a player 18-20 shots and see what happens. Give him 10-12 and don't expect too much. The fact that he's doing what he's doing with that kind of usage is impressive. Bogdanovic too.
 
It's hard for anyone to become the alpha with how Joerger platoons. The truth is there were more than a few games where without Buddy the Kings would have been down by astronomical numbers. He's was an alpha in college and I've seen enough to know that if given the chance he could do a lot of the sames things in the NBA.

And it has nothing to do with Sac. If anything as I stated above and how he's being played has been discussed in the past, it could be holding him back. He was one of the top 3 point shooters in the league, elite at catch and shoot, and was on a team looking mostly for inefficient mid range shots. Give a player 18-20 shots and see what happens. Give him 10-12 and don't expect too much. The fact that he's doing what he's doing with that kind of usage is impressive. Bogdanovic too.

None of our shooters have any leeway with shots because of our poor rebounding. You can take risks or shoot more with better boarders. Hopefully Bags and Giles can create more opportunity.
 

Capt. Factorial

Cantry Member
Staff member
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiret...Stretch-Provision-On-Joakim-Noah-In-September

Knicks are lookin to stretch Joakim. This is your chance, Vlade. Go get some assets!
I doubt there's a trade there. I mean, even if we send Z-Bo back, we're still taking on $26M in salary and we'd be forcing ourselves to take a $19M cap hit next year (either that or stretch Noah and take a ~$7.5M cap hit for the next five seasons). That's a ton of money and bad cap hits - so what are the Knicks going to give us back?

A single first-round pick? I bet they don't offer more than that. And spending $26M on a middling first rounder is a bad play, no matter what draft it's in. I mean, two unprotected picks and you're starting to approach an equal value, but the Knicks won't do that.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
It's all nice and stuffs, but stats don't translate like that. To be able to put up 17ppg, you need to be a good scorer. Can Buddy or Bogdan put up 17ppg while being defended by the other team's best perimeter defender? How will both players react when teams purposely plan their defense around said player? Can they counter-attack? Do they have enough offense? Buddy absolutely lacks a game to the basket. Bogdan's quickness has its limitations.


How are you counting this impact?

Win shares? Wiggins had 4.2 compared to Affalo's 1.4.

PER? Wiggins had 16.5 compared to Afflalo's 8.9.

Using VORP isn't a very good measuring stick. Using this, you're telling me Devin Booker had the same impact as WCS? Going back on topic, are you're seriously saying that a 23ppg scorer in Wiggins had the same impact as a 9ppg scorer in Afflalo?

Wiggins isn't worth his contract, but he's not a terrible player like some make him out to be. Wiggins is still younger than Buddy, WCS, and Bogdan. For all the hype our young players get, Wiggins would come in and easily not only be our best player, but also be the best prospect on this team. He's the player most closest to a superstar ceiling.

This is another Rudy Gay case. Believe it or not, Rudy Gay made 24% of the Raptor's cap similarly to Wiggins who makes around 25%. His People thought Gay was an inefficient chucker. That he was a selfish black hole. He didn't know how to pass. He took away shots from everyone else. He didn't play very good defense. Toronto no longer wanted him on his horrendous contract. He was becoming a plague on that young Raptors team. HORRIBLE locker room presence with a poor attitude. Teammates didn't get along with his play style. Cherry on top, he had a PER of 14.7! Does this sound familiar? The media absolutely murdered Gay.
What did he do once he came to Sacramento? He's become one of our best players of the decade. I think Wiggins is unfairly getting bagged on because he didn't live up to the media's expectations of "LEBRON JAMES 2.0". People also seem to dislike his contract. Minnesota gave him that horrendous contract. He didn't force them to do anything. Is anyone mad at Zach Randolph for collecting $12million? No, that's on the Kings.

Minnesota is easily one of the most dysfunctional franchises, but they get away with so much compared to the Kings. They draft just as horrible as we do... Flynn, Rubio, Johnson, and Williams. Wasted Kevin Love's prime. They lucked into KAT. Miraculously somehow developed LaVine. Sucked so bad they got a 2 top 10 picks in 2016 and 2017 to pair alongside Wiggins and KAT in their rebuild............ only to throw it all away along by trading LaVine, Markkanen, and Dunn for Jimmy Butler and Justin Patton. A trade done by Tom Thibodeau who's stuck in the DRose era... and now, the Wiggins contract? good god lol. None of this was worth a 1st round exit in 2018 with the Warrior's dynasty still in place.

Due to the sheer incompetence of that franchise, I don't think there's any way in hell they can afford to trade Wiggins. If Jimmy walks next year in FA, they are seriously screwed if they only have KAT on the team. If both Wiggins and Butler were gone, I could easily see KAT accepting the QO too.
First off, I saw interviews with quite a few of Gay's teammates and he was loved by his teammates. Gay even admitted that he was asked to be the number one option when he got there, and it was probably a mistake asking him to try and carry that load. But to say he was a bad locker room influence is just not true. However, from a fans prospective, he did get the rep as a chucker, deserved or not.

As to Wiggins, my problems with him go all the way back to Kansas, where he tended to score most of his points when they didn't matter. And when they did matter he disappeared. He still has the same tendencies. In my opinion, Buddy will eventually surpass whatever Wiggins is. Buddy is a more efficient scorer shooting 43.7% from the three compared to Wiggins 33.1%. I don't disagree that Buddy's handles need to improve, and I would be shocked if they aren't improved for this coming season. But lets be clear, Wiggins handles aren't world beaters either.

The biggest reason that Wiggins scores more is because number one, he takes more shots, and number two, he gets to the free throw line almost 4 times a game. Buddy gets to the line a pitiful one time per game, and that's due to his lack of being able to attack the basket, and do so in a way that gets a foul called. If Buddy can find a way to improve in that area and get to the line 4 to 5 times a game, along with upping his shot attempts he can easily score 20 plus pt's a game. Buddy shoots almost 90% from the free throw line compared to Wiggins 64%.

If you go back and look at what made Kevin Martin such an efficient scorer, it was his ability to get to the line. Ditto James Harden. Cuz scoring totals took a big jump forward when he started getting calls. So I'm anxious to see what improvements Buddy has made this offseason. The biggest difference between Buddy and Wiggins right now, is that Buddy is clutch. He wants to take the big shot. Wiggins hides in the corner!