Trading Our Cap Space
- Thread starter twslam07
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One way we can open up more cap space for a potential salary dump trade would be to stretch and waive either ZBo or Shumpert's contract.
This would add about 4 million to our salary cap on top of the 10.992 mil we have so a team doing a salary dump could potentially shave off $15 million from their salary cap if the give us a first round pick or a nice young SF (OG?) for our cap space.
We still need to get down to 15 players somehow and stretching one our highly paid vets would make a potential salary dump more rewarding to the dumping team, thus the Kings should be able to get more in return.
This would add about 4 million to our salary cap on top of the 10.992 mil we have so a team doing a salary dump could potentially shave off $15 million from their salary cap if the give us a first round pick or a nice young SF (OG?) for our cap space.
We still need to get down to 15 players somehow and stretching one our highly paid vets would make a potential salary dump more rewarding to the dumping team, thus the Kings should be able to get more in return.
I believe if you stretch Zbo's 11.7 mil over 3 yrs it adds 7.794m to current yr cap of 10.992 so you have 15 players and 18.786 cap
so a Ryan 20.421 for Davis 1.545 needs 18.876 so we would be short 90,000 if its that close does it work?
But it costs us 11.7 Zbo , 18.7Curr cap,21.2 Ryan next yr Man thats 51.6 mil cap over 2 yrs!! Better be 2 1sts at least
so a Ryan 20.421 for Davis 1.545 needs 18.876 so we would be short 90,000 if its that close does it work?
But it costs us 11.7 Zbo , 18.7Curr cap,21.2 Ryan next yr Man thats 51.6 mil cap over 2 yrs!! Better be 2 1sts at least
Well, it's just an option to open up cap space, if we are able to get something good in return.
We are currently at 16 players under contract and we need to cut down to 15 by the end of pre-season. Well, if no one is willing to make a trade for one or two of our players, we will need to cut one of them. If we just waive someone and don't stretch them, that doesn't help our cap space to take a salary cap dump and get some valuable assets in return.
Just an example, Toronto is 15 million over the Luxury Tax. If they come to the Kings and said the only way they are going to include OG Anunoby and a 1st round pick in a salary cap dump is if the dump gets them fully under the Luxury Tax. Well, as it stands now, the Kings are only $10.992 million under the cap. If we were to stretch ZBo or Shumpert, we would gain an extra 7.7 mil in cap space and we can fully absorb the contracts from Toronto to get OG and a 1st round pick.
This of course is a hypothetical and I would only do a stretch if we know we are getting something good in return, meaning we have a good salary dump trade lined up.
Otherwise, we may still wind up just waiving our 16th contract (highly likely) and not gain anything for it anyways.
We are currently at 16 players under contract and we need to cut down to 15 by the end of pre-season. Well, if no one is willing to make a trade for one or two of our players, we will need to cut one of them. If we just waive someone and don't stretch them, that doesn't help our cap space to take a salary cap dump and get some valuable assets in return.
Just an example, Toronto is 15 million over the Luxury Tax. If they come to the Kings and said the only way they are going to include OG Anunoby and a 1st round pick in a salary cap dump is if the dump gets them fully under the Luxury Tax. Well, as it stands now, the Kings are only $10.992 million under the cap. If we were to stretch ZBo or Shumpert, we would gain an extra 7.7 mil in cap space and we can fully absorb the contracts from Toronto to get OG and a 1st round pick.
This of course is a hypothetical and I would only do a stretch if we know we are getting something good in return, meaning we have a good salary dump trade lined up.
Otherwise, we may still wind up just waiving our 16th contract (highly likely) and not gain anything for it anyways.
Keeping your rookie deals is how you manage the cap. Toronto is going for broke this year. They know that they have to do everything to impress upon Leonard to stay and this might be their one shot at winning the East before Boston and Philly dominate for the next half decade. Shipping young cost controlled talent to try and save luxury tax $$ isn't going to impress the guy rumored to want to play for LA.
Try to look at this from a Raptors perspective, or as a neutral. There are no basketball reasons to make this move. And if they lose Leonard, they are in full rebuild and they'll be under the tax in no time.
Try to look at this from a Raptors perspective, or as a neutral. There are no basketball reasons to make this move. And if they lose Leonard, they are in full rebuild and they'll be under the tax in no time.
The rumor is that Toronto is trying to get under the Luxury Tax. It's been reported by a couple of sources that they really don't want to pay the Luxury Tax.
Last year they traded demaree Carroll and a 1st and a second rounder to get under the Luxury Tax.
Here's the thing. The Kings are the only one that has salary cap room to bring these tax payer teams out of Luxury Tax hell.
And IIRC the deadline to stretch a player is August 31st.
Luxury Tax team really can't wait until the trade deadline to make a deal this year, because only one team has room to absorb and that's the Kings.
And to that point, we only have enough room to absorb 10.7 million for picks or players.
If a team wants to get out of Luxury Tax hell, they won't have the luxury to wait until the trade deadline this year, because only the Kings have ample cap space. And the only way the Kings can get more cap space to absorb a team like Toronto's tax amount is if we stretch one of our 16 contracts before the stretch deadline.
If they don't give the Kings a sweetheart deal (ie a young player and/or multiple 1st rounders) before the stretch deadline, they will more then likely end up paying $32+ million in luxury taxes.
As I have said repeatedly, I would only stretch a contract if a good enough salary dump deal comes along. If nothing good enough is offered, I'm staying put.
Also, the Kings need to be exploring all options at this point. We should not be sitting on our hands until the trade deadline.
Last year they traded demaree Carroll and a 1st and a second rounder to get under the Luxury Tax.
Here's the thing. The Kings are the only one that has salary cap room to bring these tax payer teams out of Luxury Tax hell.
And IIRC the deadline to stretch a player is August 31st.
Luxury Tax team really can't wait until the trade deadline to make a deal this year, because only one team has room to absorb and that's the Kings.
And to that point, we only have enough room to absorb 10.7 million for picks or players.
If a team wants to get out of Luxury Tax hell, they won't have the luxury to wait until the trade deadline this year, because only the Kings have ample cap space. And the only way the Kings can get more cap space to absorb a team like Toronto's tax amount is if we stretch one of our 16 contracts before the stretch deadline.
If they don't give the Kings a sweetheart deal (ie a young player and/or multiple 1st rounders) before the stretch deadline, they will more then likely end up paying $32+ million in luxury taxes.
As I have said repeatedly, I would only stretch a contract if a good enough salary dump deal comes along. If nothing good enough is offered, I'm staying put.
Also, the Kings need to be exploring all options at this point. We should not be sitting on our hands until the trade deadline.
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A team doesn't get under the luxury tax and remain competitive by trading good players on cheap contracts.
They dump the crap. Crappier, more expensive crap than Z-Bo.
Why is this so hard to grasp? There's no deal for OG. There's no rumors suggesting he is part of any package. They aren't going to sell the farm.
The deals that could surface are the likes of Wiggins or Porter in Washington if the teams crap the bed this season. They carry risk.
They dump the crap. Crappier, more expensive crap than Z-Bo.
Why is this so hard to grasp? There's no deal for OG. There's no rumors suggesting he is part of any package. They aren't going to sell the farm.
The deals that could surface are the likes of Wiggins or Porter in Washington if the teams crap the bed this season. They carry risk.
Like I have said before, I'm not advocating we stretch a player just to stretch.
I'm asking for the farm if I am going to stretch a contract like ZBo. If they don't want to give up the farm (i.e. Multiple 1st rounder and/or a young player) then I'm not going to help them.
And OG is a nice young player, but he only averaged 6 points per game last year. He's a nice defensive player, but let's not make out like he is LeBron James. A player like OG would be considered a sweetener to entice a team to take your bad contracts. We're not going to take a salary dump for nothing.
I'm giving them the only opportunity to get out of the $32 million in luxury tax. And if they don't want to pay the price then I'm not helping.
If they feel that keeping OG (their backup small forward) is worth paying $32 million in taxes, then so be it.
If I'm the Kings that's what I'm asking for. If Toronto doesn't want to give it, then that's fine by me. We stay where we're at and they will be paying $32 million in taxes.
I'm asking for the farm if I am going to stretch a contract like ZBo. If they don't want to give up the farm (i.e. Multiple 1st rounder and/or a young player) then I'm not going to help them.
And OG is a nice young player, but he only averaged 6 points per game last year. He's a nice defensive player, but let's not make out like he is LeBron James. A player like OG would be considered a sweetener to entice a team to take your bad contracts. We're not going to take a salary dump for nothing.
I'm giving them the only opportunity to get out of the $32 million in luxury tax. And if they don't want to pay the price then I'm not helping.
If they feel that keeping OG (their backup small forward) is worth paying $32 million in taxes, then so be it.
If I'm the Kings that's what I'm asking for. If Toronto doesn't want to give it, then that's fine by me. We stay where we're at and they will be paying $32 million in taxes.
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That's fine by me. If they don't want to include him, then I'm not helping them with a salary dump and they can pay the $32 million in Luxury Tax.
Toronto was also unwilling to include OG in the Leonard trade because they weren't even sure Leonard was willing to suit up for them this year. Now that he has reported there and passed his physical and I'm sure they have had discussions, they may be more comfortable with Leonard warming up to Toronto.
Toronto was also unwilling to include OG in the Leonard trade because they weren't even sure Leonard was willing to suit up for them this year. Now that he has reported there and passed his physical and I'm sure they have had discussions, they may be more comfortable with Leonard warming up to Toronto.
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Yes, Luxury Tax is calculated at end of the year, but only one team has salary cap space to absorb contracts, and that is the Kings. The number of teams with salary cap space is not going to increase mid season.
Also, IIRC the stretch deadline is August 31st. So, if a team needs to dump more than the 10.7 mil the Kings currently have, they would need to be aggressive to entice the Kings with a big enough offer to stretch a contract before that deadline and complete a salary dump deal before that date.
It's not like prior years where multiple teams have a ton of cap space to make a deal and absorb salary at the trade deadline. Even the Kings 10.7 million may not be enough salary cap space to help facilitate a trade or a full salary dump trade at the deadline.
Teams may need to be more aggressive in making a deal with the Kings to avoid the Luxury Tax than in prior years.
Once the Kings salary cap space is gone, those Luxury Tax teams won't have any option to avoid the Luxury tax anymore.
Also, IIRC the stretch deadline is August 31st. So, if a team needs to dump more than the 10.7 mil the Kings currently have, they would need to be aggressive to entice the Kings with a big enough offer to stretch a contract before that deadline and complete a salary dump deal before that date.
It's not like prior years where multiple teams have a ton of cap space to make a deal and absorb salary at the trade deadline. Even the Kings 10.7 million may not be enough salary cap space to help facilitate a trade or a full salary dump trade at the deadline.
Teams may need to be more aggressive in making a deal with the Kings to avoid the Luxury Tax than in prior years.
Once the Kings salary cap space is gone, those Luxury Tax teams won't have any option to avoid the Luxury tax anymore.
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Seven Trades that Utilize the Kings Remaining Cap Space
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nb...lize-the-kings-remaining-cap-space/ar-BBL386a
Which one? Hmmmm discuss?
I like the portland #1 trade
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nb...lize-the-kings-remaining-cap-space/ar-BBL386a
Which one? Hmmmm discuss?
I like the portland #1 trade
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I don't like most of these. Let me put down what I would consider a summary of the trades, leaving out players I think are truly irrelevant salary dumps:
1) Kings get: 2019 WAS 1st-rd, 2 2nd-rds
Kings lose: WCS, $27M
So...give up on Willie and spend $27M to get one marginal first rounder? No chance.
2) Kings get: 2019 POR 1st-rd, Layman
Kings lose: Skal, $20M
This is not so bad. We're paying some bad money for Leonard but if Layman can actually give solid minutes at the 3 (I'm not sold) then it's workable for me.
3) Kings get: 2019 POR 1st-rd
Kings lose: Kosta, $28M, 2 2nd-rds
Compare this to trade #2 to see just how much worse it is. I have zero faith in Evan Turner being an NBA-quality player, so...NO.
4) Kings get: 2019 MIA 1st-rd, Tyler Johnson, no more Z-bo
Kings lose: $32.5M, a 2nd-rd
If we had any possible use for Tyler Johnson, who is a decent but overpaid player, maybe. We have no use for Johnson. If worse comes to worse we can just waive Z-bo. So it's basically $32M for a first rounder. That's a seriously stupid overpay.
5) Kings get: Harkless
Kings lose: WCS, $33M
I kind of like Harkless. I don't like Harkless anywhere near that much.
6) Kings get: Wiggins, no more Z-bo
Kings lose: Have to pay Wiggins $146M
This is the Russian Roulette of trades. We need a SF. Wiggins is 23, under (expensive) control for 5 years, and a former #1 overall pick that plays SF. But he hasn't been good. If our talent evaluators can come back and say, "Look, the kid has got what it takes, but he's been misused in Minny. He fits the system we want to put together anyway, and we can seriously build with him as a piece, and I promise he'll look like a top-5 pick within a year or two", then pull that trigger and hope the chamber is empty. Otherwise, pass. You just can't lock up a quarter of your salary cap for five years on a guy unless he's the real deal. My inclination would be to pass, but barring one of the other trades stumbling into a pick that hits the lottery, it's really the only deal that has a chance of being a championship-delivering deal. It just has a huge chance to bury the franchise as well.
7) Kings get: Wiggins
Kings lose: WCS, have to pay Wiggins $146M
This is way worse than #6, so it's not even worth considering if #6 is on the table.
So, to sum up: The only deals I would even look at in this bunch are #2 and #6. #2 is kind of an overpay on Layman in trying to stopgap SF for a few years, with a pick. It's not a disaster, but I don't think it would really move any needles in the end. #6 is a true high-risk, high-reward, high-catastrophe bargain. If we really truly think that reward outweighs catastrophe, then I'm intrigued (but reward probably doesn't outweigh catastrophe).
1) Kings get: 2019 WAS 1st-rd, 2 2nd-rds
Kings lose: WCS, $27M
So...give up on Willie and spend $27M to get one marginal first rounder? No chance.
2) Kings get: 2019 POR 1st-rd, Layman
Kings lose: Skal, $20M
This is not so bad. We're paying some bad money for Leonard but if Layman can actually give solid minutes at the 3 (I'm not sold) then it's workable for me.
3) Kings get: 2019 POR 1st-rd
Kings lose: Kosta, $28M, 2 2nd-rds
Compare this to trade #2 to see just how much worse it is. I have zero faith in Evan Turner being an NBA-quality player, so...NO.
4) Kings get: 2019 MIA 1st-rd, Tyler Johnson, no more Z-bo
Kings lose: $32.5M, a 2nd-rd
If we had any possible use for Tyler Johnson, who is a decent but overpaid player, maybe. We have no use for Johnson. If worse comes to worse we can just waive Z-bo. So it's basically $32M for a first rounder. That's a seriously stupid overpay.
5) Kings get: Harkless
Kings lose: WCS, $33M
I kind of like Harkless. I don't like Harkless anywhere near that much.
6) Kings get: Wiggins, no more Z-bo
Kings lose: Have to pay Wiggins $146M
This is the Russian Roulette of trades. We need a SF. Wiggins is 23, under (expensive) control for 5 years, and a former #1 overall pick that plays SF. But he hasn't been good. If our talent evaluators can come back and say, "Look, the kid has got what it takes, but he's been misused in Minny. He fits the system we want to put together anyway, and we can seriously build with him as a piece, and I promise he'll look like a top-5 pick within a year or two", then pull that trigger and hope the chamber is empty. Otherwise, pass. You just can't lock up a quarter of your salary cap for five years on a guy unless he's the real deal. My inclination would be to pass, but barring one of the other trades stumbling into a pick that hits the lottery, it's really the only deal that has a chance of being a championship-delivering deal. It just has a huge chance to bury the franchise as well.
7) Kings get: Wiggins
Kings lose: WCS, have to pay Wiggins $146M
This is way worse than #6, so it's not even worth considering if #6 is on the table.
So, to sum up: The only deals I would even look at in this bunch are #2 and #6. #2 is kind of an overpay on Layman in trying to stopgap SF for a few years, with a pick. It's not a disaster, but I don't think it would really move any needles in the end. #6 is a true high-risk, high-reward, high-catastrophe bargain. If we really truly think that reward outweighs catastrophe, then I'm intrigued (but reward probably doesn't outweigh catastrophe).
If Miami adds Winslow and we add WCS to the Deal , I would do it
Tyler,Winslow 25.6 1st for WCS,Shump 15.7 2nd
We Get Winslow and upgrade Pick
miami gets 2 usable players, saves 32mil
But Miami prob wont
Everyone says trade WCS for a SF, well here ya go
With Tyler - waive or trade Ben for 2nd
Keep Davis as 4th Big next yr
Tyler,Winslow 25.6 1st for WCS,Shump 15.7 2nd
We Get Winslow and upgrade Pick
miami gets 2 usable players, saves 32mil
But Miami prob wont
Everyone says trade WCS for a SF, well here ya go
With Tyler - waive or trade Ben for 2nd
Keep Davis as 4th Big next yr
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#6 or 7 Is the only trade that actually gives the Kings a shot at an Alpha Scorer.
I would do it, if all we had to do was absorb Wiggins contract with ZBo or Shumpert going out. I might even include WCS, if the Twolves sends back a pick.
Wiggins is a legit 20 ppg scorer in the league. Jimmy Butler (Coach Thibs favorite) took a lot of Wiggins shots away this past year and stunted his scoring potential. Wiggins is a legit #1 or #2 scorer. He is an overpay at $29 mil, but who else could the Kings get in Free Agency next year or in a trade with his firepower? Nobody really.
I would do it, if all we had to do was absorb Wiggins contract with ZBo or Shumpert going out. I might even include WCS, if the Twolves sends back a pick.
Wiggins is a legit 20 ppg scorer in the league. Jimmy Butler (Coach Thibs favorite) took a lot of Wiggins shots away this past year and stunted his scoring potential. Wiggins is a legit #1 or #2 scorer. He is an overpay at $29 mil, but who else could the Kings get in Free Agency next year or in a trade with his firepower? Nobody really.
I just dont think Minny would trade Wiggins for a salary dump
They would probably want talent in exchange much less give us picks for us to take him
We will just have to wait for an elite SF to demand a trade/ or Team to force a trade (To appease Butler?)
things may have to get Real Ugly Between KAT,Butler and Wiggins
before Minny gives away Wiggins
Then maybe we can use cap space/Enders to make numbers work
I just dont see any top SF that fits that descript : Porter,Barnes, Wiggins
They would probably want talent in exchange much less give us picks for us to take him
We will just have to wait for an elite SF to demand a trade/ or Team to force a trade (To appease Butler?)
things may have to get Real Ugly Between KAT,Butler and Wiggins
before Minny gives away Wiggins
Then maybe we can use cap space/Enders to make numbers work
I just dont see any top SF that fits that descript : Porter,Barnes, Wiggins
Wiggins was better the 2 years before Butler came to Minnesota. The combo of Butler and Wiggins was not a good mix for them. Someone has to go and that will probably be Wiggins. But, Wiggins is one of the only top scoring wings rumored to be available. And the Kings are in desperate need of a scoring wing.
Wiggins is a horrible salary, which is why he'd be available. However we'd have to give up something good - probably two of our young guys minimum (one of Buddy/Bogs plus one of the lesser bigs) - to get him. I just don't see a deal centered around Z-Bo or Shumpert, sorry. So you're exchanging cost controlled potential for a high cost scoring threat that comes with salary and attitude/workrate baggage.
Is it a risk worth taking? I dunno. Talent wise maybe, but there's no sense trying to accelerate our timetable in the current landscape of the west. and when you factor in team chemistry, I just think maybe a slow build is in order. Work towards an end, not try some quick strike that could send us down in flames.
Is it a risk worth taking? I dunno. Talent wise maybe, but there's no sense trying to accelerate our timetable in the current landscape of the west. and when you factor in team chemistry, I just think maybe a slow build is in order. Work towards an end, not try some quick strike that could send us down in flames.