Trade talk with Indiana--Tinsley to Sacto, Greene to Indiana?

[Arby's Roast Beef]

According to PacersDigest, the Kings are considering a deal in which Kenny Thomas and Donte Greene would be traded for Jamaal Tinsley, Shawne Williams and a future 1st rounder. The original deal started as Kenny Thomas for Jamaal Tinsley and Josh McRoberts, but apparently the Pacers want to get rid of their players with baggage (Tinsley, Williams).

As for my opinion, this is a solid trade that helps us get rid of Kenny Thomas, but attaching a talented young player like Greene in getting rid of him, while taking back potential cancers in Tinsley and Williams, may be problematic. I happen to be higher on Tinsley than most people probably are, because of his ability to rack up steals while being a top 10 assist player when healthy and given minutes, but he's getting older, can't stay healthy and has a bevy of off-the-court issues which explains his extremely low perceived value (despite averaging 8.4 apg just this past year); but if he can be tapped into, he's sort of like a poor man's Jason Kidd, down to the triple double potential, complete with the poor jumpshot. Nonetheless, Tinsley's a pure PG and we need his assistmaking abilities, although he's a huge turnoff with his assortment of problems. At least Tinsley was productive when he played whereas Thomas was not for us--so even if his contract runs longer, there may be greater hope in resurrecting his career; if not, he can fit in as trade bait. Shawne Williams is 22 and has some mileage in the league, and will fit in with our youth movement, but he seems to be extremely offensive minded and lacking both a brain and an all-around game on the court--not to mention that he seems to have wasted his opportunity in Indiana (if Larry Bird is willing to replace a guy who's barely seen the NBA court--McRoberts--with a guy who's young, talented and showed scoring potential in Williams-- then you know there's a problem with Williams). That future 1st rounder will also help us for the future as well.

By the way, if anyone knows, can Donte Greene be traded again as of now?

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

how long is tinsleys deal ? if its shorter than KT's and the pick is completely unprotected than I'd do it .. otherwise its a no deal. I have high hopes for greene.

also, the KT for Tinsley and mcroberts deal I would also take if tinsley is done after this year .. i always liked mcroberts game.

 

[NME]

Huh, why would we do this? If Tinsley was expiring it would serve a purpose, but his contract goes a year longer than KT.

 

[SacKings7]

how long is tinsleys deal ? if its shorter than KT's and the pick is completely unprotected than I'd do it .. otherwise its a no deal. I have high hopes for greene.

also, the KT for Tinsley and mcroberts deal I would also take if tinsley is done after this year .. i always liked mcroberts game.

Tinsley's contract is 1 year longer than KT's. I'd probably do the McRoberts deal. But then again, I'd like to see what we could do with all that cap room in 2010

 

[Bricklayer]

That's really quite atrocious again if we were to do something like that.

Jamaal Tinsley? Really? An always injured 30yr old with a posionous locker room demeanor and even more poisonous contract (runs through 2011, Kenny only through 2010)? And then dumping Donte Greene before he even reaches camp for us? Yeah, that would be wise. Smacks of more win now, er, make that mediocre now, stupidity from Geoff just when you thought he might finally be outgrowing that phase. And let's see, knocking Bobby right out of the rotation and to the end of the bench so we can bring in some more of Indiana's problems? While eroding what's left of our future cap room? If we took him and his extra year of contract straight up for Kenny they should kiss our butt for the favor. With the rest of it this is so putrid that I am disinclined to believe it.

 

[NME]

Smacks of more win now, er, make that mediocre now, stupidity from Geoff just when you thought he might finally be outgrowing that phase.

That's why I hope the rumor that we even made the initial offer is unfounded. Finally, the last handful of moves we've made have all indicated moving in the correct direction, even if in a minor way, and this would be a bad case of backtracking.

 

[kennadog]

This is a rumor on another team's fan board. Pacers want to get rid of some crap. They're probably putting out feelers to everybody. Same as GP has done trying to unload KT.

I would like to trade KT's contract away, but at least he hasn't been a real problem here. He sits nice and quietly on the bench.

 

[GeraldWallace#3]

I've always liked Tinsley and I would love if the McRoberts deal were to go down. But, there's no reason we should give up Donte that would be just plain stupid. If were to get Tinsley for Kenny it would be an absolute steal. When was the last time we had a PG who averaged 8+ assists a game. I think this deal would be great for the development of all our young guys, Tinsley has a huge court vision and can rebound the ball pretty well too. He is the pass first PG we would be looking for. But on the downside I see this being a sort of a BillRon Artest fiasco again, Good even great in begining but ending.............eh..........not so pretty. Plus we would have to wait a while before we could let him go, not so many teams would love to have him around. I also see Reggie starting Beno infront of him so I see that as a problem.

 

[FakeInjury]

Bull. This is fake. Larry bird doesn't have an itchy trigger finger, #1, and Donte's stock is not that high, #2. Moving KThomas for jamal would seem fair enough. I just dont see why indiana gives up a 1st round pick and a center, for Greene. And finally, if the pacers are truely offering this deal, or something close to it...then Greene's stock is actually above where it should be, and we should sit on such stocks because it's likely to increase in value. no more picks for players please, says the wise man.

 

[hrdboild]

It might have made sense if we hadn't just signed Beno to a 5 year deal earlier this summer. Bringing in another PG at this point is going to cause all sorts of roster problems with two guys wanting starters minutes, and getting paid starters money as well. Shawne Williams could be a decent player, but at this point he's about as much of an unproven commodity as Donte Greene. Tinsley is a good player if he could ever stay on the floor but he's more injury prone than Baron Davis. Dumping KT's salary and picking up a 1st round pick both look great - particularly if the Pacers continue to nosedive for another couple years, and the Williams/Greene swap might be a wash but then what would we do with Beno?

 

[sactownfan]

Geoff had his eye on greene through out the draft and now that he got him no way hes gonna just unload him unless its going to be a huge deal in our advantage... no way he make a even trade at this point leading up to training camp... we're done making moves for awhile...

 

[BMiller52]

I seriously doubt this happens.

 

[Prince_XY]

That's really quite atrocious again if we were to do something like that.

Jamaal Tinsley? Really? An always injured 30yr old with a posionous locker room demeanor and even more poisonous contract (runs through 2011, Kenny only through 2010)? And then dumping Donte Greene before he even reaches camp for us? Yeah, that would be wise. Smacks of more win now, er, make that mediocre now, stupidity from Geoff just when you thought he might finally be outgrowing that phase. And let's see, knocking Bobby right out of the rotation and to the end of the bench so we can bring in some more of Indiana's problems? While eroding what's left of our future cap room? If we took him and his extra year of contract straight up for Kenny they should kiss our butt for the favor. With the rest of it this is so putrid that I am disinclined to believe it.

Exactly !



Thanks for saying it. I don't have to type that much.

.

 

[One and Done]

This is a great deal for Indiana.

For us, terrible.

I really hope this does not happen...

 

[Vlade4GM]

Total BS, don't believe it for a second.

 

[AriesMar27]

if we hadnt resigned beno and donte wasnt included, then maybe this could be an okay deal.... tinsley and jackson at pg w/o thomas on the team sounds better than beno and jackson at pg w/thomas...

 

[Gary]

Meh....
KT is out of sight and out of mind from my pov. Tinsley wouldn't be, and he causes problems. So no thanks...

 

[chasen4r1]

I've been really looking forward to seeing Greene develop. I hope this trade doesn't go through.

 

[FakeInjury]

We are definately going to sit on Greene. I think they talked, and tried to set the standard for what indiana is looking for and what they are willing to give up in a potential deal. Larry is using Petrie, in a respectable way, to get the word out that if you take tinsley and give the pacers a good deal, a 1st round pick might be a reward depending on the player. I think Darko for tinsley and williams would be satisfactory for both parties.

 

[VF21]

According to PacersDigest, the Kings are considering a deal in which Kenny Thomas and Donte Greene would be traded for Jamaal Tinsley, Shawne Williams and a future 1st rounder.

Okay, let's clarify, shall we?

I also wanted to let you all know that a friend of mine who's involved with the Kings told me that an offer was on the table from Sacramento to trade for Tinsley. Word has it that the Kings have offered Indiana Kenny Thomas in exchange for Jamaal Tinsley and Josh McRoberts. The Pacers have replied stating that they would consider it if Sacramento would take back Shawne Williams instead of McRoberts. Apparently, the Pacers have also asked for Donte Green to be included.

Sorry, but I find it pretty hard to believe. There's NO reason for the Kings to bring Tinsley here. None whatsoever. Kenny Thomas is an expiring contract in the year Petrie is aiming for and he's pretty much the invisible man right now. It makes no sense to trade him... and it's not the kind of trade I would see Petrie propose.

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

My apologies, should've been more clear with the wording. After reading most of the board's opinions on the deal, I definitely do understand why many are against this sort of trade--Tinsley's longer contract, taking in Indiana's "trash", getting older (at least with Tinsley), getting problem players, etc. However, it's hard to deny Tinsley and William's talents, but again, it's not worth giving up Donte Greene for a couple of headcases. I don't think the trade has much legs, but if it does, it seems to me that Bird is desperately trying to get someone to take Tinsley and is even willing to take Thomas in return--which of course is a trade based on toxic contracts in which the winner of the trade would get the one with the lesser years left in the deal.

 

[SacKings7]

This is a great deal for Indiana.

For us, terrible.

I really hope this does not happen...

Whoever thought we'd be saying that about a KT trade?

But now that I think it over, I wouldn't do either deal. I've always disliked McRoberts, and thought he was way overrated in college.

 

[bajaden]

There's only one way this rumor would have any value. Thats if it happened in early july. At least it would have given us something to argue about for a few weeks. I don't beleive this rumored trade has any legs, nor does it make any sense.

I don't doubt that the Pacers called, and, knowing Petrie, I'm sure that any leaks came from them. We don't need Tinsley, nor is there any urgency to unload KT at this point. Actually, KT will have significant trade value in the next off season as and ending contract that can be added to any trade, so why take on additional commitments?

 

[FakeInjury]

only if we use his contract wisely, like from NY when they get desparate for cappy. shhhh

 

[Widowmaker2k]

This trade gets a big "no" from me. KT surely has an awful contract, but it's almost over. Of all of our current youngins, Donte has the highest ceiling, and because of this, I don't want to see him traded for peanuts. Tinsley is certainly valuable to the right, I just don't think that that is us.

 

[Löwenherz]

This trade makes no sense from our standpoint at this stage in the rebuild.

Maybe we do this two years ago when Bibby's trade value was still high enough to fetch a decent big man. Then Tinsley would fill the hole left after a seperate Bibby trade solidified our frontcourt, we'd dump K9 for a more useful player and the extra contract year wouldn't matter.

Now though? No thanks. We've wasted enough time with K9 taking cap space in our dog house to scuttle him off just before that contract actually becomes valuable as an expiring (and throw in a promising rookie in Greene while we're at it)

Fortunately (in this case at least) with Petrie, aside from the Peja/Artest trade, if we've heard about it, it's probably not going to happen.

 

[FakeInjury]

we've heard about it, it's probably not going to happen.

i have struggled with this issue before. If one mentions a trade, by chance, that has the potential to be discussed in the future, would it help or hurt the trade's chance to fly. or would it be killed altogether b/c a person outside of "the know" came up with it(making whoever pulls the trigger on it look very expendable). I recently went to a girls soccer game, yelled a bunch, and yelled some more, they ended the game tied. If i had not been there would things have been different?...I think so.

 

[VF21]

At one point or another, virtually every single possible trade combination is mentioned somewhere. I honestly don't think Geoff Petrie or any of the other GMs pay any attention to what's discussed. There are organizations like the Kings that take major steps to ensure their dealings aren't leaked ahead of time. In fact, I think the sphinx is more of a gossip than the folks in the know at MSE.

If you follow the trail on this rumor, it was posted on PacersDigest by someone from Australia who knows someone who works for the Kings. Not the best possible source, IMHO.

 

[Löwenherz]

i have struggled with this issue before. If one mentions a trade, by chance, that has the potential to be discussed in the future, would it help or hurt the trade's chance to fly. or would it be killed altogether b/c a person outside of "the know" came up with it(making whoever pulls the trigger on it look very expendable). I recently went to a girls soccer game, yelled a bunch, and yelled some more, they ended the game tied. If i had not been there would things have been different?...I think so.

... And if a butterfly flaps its wings ...

Not quite what I meant. I was saying, typcially by the time a rumor gets to us from an "insider source" it's a trade TPTB explored and have since abandoned.

As for a trade suggested by a person "outside the know" our own Dime Dropper NAILED the Artest trade a few weeks before it happened as one of a handful "hey what if" senarios.

Do I think that had any affect on the trade? No. Because I don't think Petrie is up at midnight feverishly checking for trade ideas on fan websites.

 

[pkballr]

Well, sometimes rumored trades end up to fruition. Like the Peja for Artest trade. It took a while, but it came true eventually.