Kings Faithful
Starter
The team may seem "scrub-tastic" right now, but that team isn't bad in a few years...with the way Hawes, Thompson, and Tyreke should pan out.
Trade Scenario(land a true PG)
- Thread starter DoDiGaG0
- Start date
The team may seem "scrub-tastic" right now, but that team isn't bad in a few years...with the way Hawes, Thompson, and Tyreke should pan out.
A
AriesMar27
Guest
compared to the rest of the league i dont know.... how many of the other bottom feeders will be worse than us in a few years? the core players for other teams seem light years ahead of our team.
memphis- mayo, gay, thabeet, gasol
okc- durant, westbrook, harden, green
clippers-griffin, gordon, thorton (not to mention their vets...)
twolves-jefferson, love, flynn (al is a borderline franchise player, no king can claim that)
teams like the blazers, hawks, hornets and other former young rebuilding teams are just going to get better. where, when and how do you see these kings breaking into the top 8 in the west in the near future? the difference between kings fans and their fans is that we keep saying "if" they are saying "when". just like blazer and hawks fans were saying a couple of years ago before both teams made the playoffs. 2 years ago they were saying, when the hawks get a pg they'll make the playoffs.last year they said when the blazers finally get oden they'll make the playoffs.
we havent said "when" since 2006.... when we get a full season with artest, when martin is starting at sg. no we say if evans demands a double team he will pass it to the open man. if martin were a superstar like kobe, wade or lebron. or my personal favorite, if we hadnt drafted douby.... next years line will be if we hadnt resigned beno we couldve kept sergio.... who we shouldve drafted instead of douby farmar or rondo wouldve been nice too.
memphis- mayo, gay, thabeet, gasol
okc- durant, westbrook, harden, green
clippers-griffin, gordon, thorton (not to mention their vets...)
twolves-jefferson, love, flynn (al is a borderline franchise player, no king can claim that)
teams like the blazers, hawks, hornets and other former young rebuilding teams are just going to get better. where, when and how do you see these kings breaking into the top 8 in the west in the near future? the difference between kings fans and their fans is that we keep saying "if" they are saying "when". just like blazer and hawks fans were saying a couple of years ago before both teams made the playoffs. 2 years ago they were saying, when the hawks get a pg they'll make the playoffs.last year they said when the blazers finally get oden they'll make the playoffs.
we havent said "when" since 2006.... when we get a full season with artest, when martin is starting at sg. no we say if evans demands a double team he will pass it to the open man. if martin were a superstar like kobe, wade or lebron. or my personal favorite, if we hadnt drafted douby.... next years line will be if we hadnt resigned beno we couldve kept sergio.... who we shouldve drafted instead of douby farmar or rondo wouldve been nice too.
Kings Faithful
Starter
I'm not going to dispute that. I've considered the fact that other bottom of the league teams seem to have at least 1 player they can claim as a franchise player. The only hint of comfort I can give in that regard is the fact that despite each of those teams having a great set of young players, they still pretty much suck. You are right though... we need a Al Jefferson, Rudy Gay, O.J. Mayo, Blake Griffin of our own... Hopefully Tyreke can be that but right now their is no way of knowing. The only thing that is going to get us a nice list of player like those other teams is to stack up as many top 10 picks as we can in the next few years...which means sucking for the next few years.
I think this is the most logical move to do.
Right on the mark.
Although the OP's trade idea is not too far way off the mark in addressing the glaring need for a back-up center and the need to move Beno as early as possible, I wouldn't go as far as getting rid of Martin this early and getting a Hinrich in return. I'll have second thoughts though if we're getting Ramon Sessions.
Let us find out first what the current core players can do, so that we can clearly see at which position needs some upgrading. IMO, we are no longer lacking talented players. It is just a matter of putting in the right system for these individual talents to develop and work as a team. With a new coach on the helm, may we could be way far better this year and the years to come. We need a little bit more of patience at this point of our rebuilding.
Last edited:
ElRey
Starter
yeah but those teams have been rebuilding for years and have had multiple top lottery picks. When was our last top 5 lottery pick? Just Tyreke this year right? and he was a #4 pick, not even a top 3 for a team that finished dead last! It's not easy being a Kings fan.
A
AriesMar27
Guest
no they havent... the thunder/sonics started rebuilding after we did. hell all of those teams started rebuilding after we did, the twoles didnt start until 2 years ago when they traded kg. the grizzlies didnt start until the traded pau up until that time they were just a bad team. same goes for the clippers.
we're on the verge of becoming what the grizzlies and clippers were a couple years ago, a bad team.... not a rebuilding team, a bad team. we have our 5 players and now we are waiting to see if they are any good together. ive never seen a group of fans so dead set on seeing just their 5 players on their team and no one else. ive never seen so many fans shoot down every possible trade proposal because they think that every player on their team is worth keeping over a proven star. even if its a rental its worth a shot because that star is light years ahead of the players we have at their position.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
The Kings have a better core than Memphis, Clipps, or T-Wolves. (You could put a young Shaq on the Clipps and I'd tell you the same thing).
We're rebuilding. And rebuilding teams are inherently bad. So, yeah, we're a bad rebuilding team. So what's the news? It takes patience, and a little luck in the ping pong ball department to get good (and maybe a nice trade a year or two from now, as well as FA). Petrie and/or the Maloofs derailed the process by trying to compete for the hallowed 8th seed for two years. So, we're two years behind schedule. I'm actually happy that the Maloofs are penny-pinched right now. It forces them to rebuild patiently through the draft, rather than go for the quick fix which you seem to desire. It will just make this team stronger in the long run. The quick-fix strategy buys you a year or two of relief, and then you're right back in mediocrityville. Like the Artest move. Relax. You have at least another year of a bottom 10 team. After that, it should be a nice ride...
TheFifthMookie
Bench
as this relates to the topic of this particular thread:
Hey if you think Heinrich is a 'star', then I don't know what to say really.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
When do you think the Kings started their rebuild? In my opinion it didn't really start until they traded Bibby, and wasn't completely underway until they traded Miller and Salmons. We now have a young core to go forward with. Now you may not think highly of that young core, and why, I'm not sure. There's no way in hell to know just how good a player is going to be in just a year or two, unless you just drafted LeBron. Even Kobe took three years to even start looking like the Kobe we know today.
The young players the Kings have aren't scrubs. Their just young players with potential to be better, or, hopefully great. So everyone is playing the what if game. The positive side is saying what if, Evans turns out to be the next Wade, and what if Hawes turns out to be one of the top 5 or 10 centers in the league. Etc, etc, etc. Those on the negative side are saying what if none of these guys turn into good players. Were doomed and all going to hell...
The truth is, that at this point in time, no one can say for sure how any one player is going to turn out or what his ceiling is. So all any of us have is hope. Hope that the FO is correct in their estimation of the talent level they've drafted, and how good each player can eventually become. I could sit here and type endlessly about each player and why I think said player should turn out to be a good player, or maybe a great player. But in truth, I can see any futher into the future than you can. Its just a guess on my part. An educated guess, but still a guess. Personally, I would rather make a positive guess. Just makes me feel better about things. Its sort of like, I would rather take a guess that a comet isn't going to hit the earth, than think that one is going to hit the earth. It just makes the coffee go down a little easier in the morning.
So I'm not trying to be critical of your opinion. I guess I just don't understand it. Come January, I could. Especially if the team really sucks in January. As they say, hope springs eternal. It does for me every off season. At least until I actually have a reason not to hope. That might happen, but for me, its a little early to be negative about things.
A
AriesMar27
Guest
hinrich a star? oh hell no... but this happens in every trade thread that we have on these boards. kirk is a scrub his damn self.
Well, you know, aside from teams that have intentionally tanked like mad for an especially great draft year, rebuilding teams ARE bad teams. And Portland and OKC started rebuilding before we did, not the other way around. We wasted 3 or 4 years trying to avoid rebuilding. The Bibby trade wasn't even the real beginning, because that was about cost cutting. Only when Artest, Miller and Salmons were all gone was it pretty well blown up. For being several months into rebuilding, we're not doing too badly.
Still, we haven't fixed our most glaring weaknesses yet... I'm not denying that. If you expected that to be done first, I can understand why you're feeling disgusted. I could credit Petrie with being especially devious, and say that he's leaving us without a couple of key roles in order to get us a better draft pick next year, but I don't think that's the case. The reality is that he's not doing an overnight rebuild like Portland did, and the way in which he's doing it will ensure another 1-2 years in the lottery. But look at the bright side... if Evans averages 5 assists and 7 turnovers all year, and our lack of a backup C bites us in the rear, we'll end up with fine position in the race for Wall. From that POV, the only thing really bad about this year is that we picked someone who has NBA-ready SG skills. We'd have been better off picking all players who were long-term projects, and saving the NBA-ready guys for our last year of early picks. But that miscalculation won't kill us. We're still definitely a lottery team.
So, in summing up, I don't think you should be looking at the current situation as entirely bleak. We may not intentionally do what we need to, but there's still room for accomplishing a decent rebuild in a haphazard, semi-accidental way.
A
AriesMar27
Guest
When do you think the Kings started their rebuild? In my opinion it didn't really start until they traded Bibby, and wasn't completely underway until they traded Miller and Salmons. We now have a young core to go forward with. Now you may not think highly of that young core, and why, I'm not sure. There's no way in hell to know just how good a player is going to be in just a year or two, unless you just drafted LeBron. Even Kobe took three years to even start looking like the Kobe we know today.
The young players the Kings have aren't scrubs. Their just young players with potential to be better, or, hopefully great. So everyone is playing the what if game. The positive side is saying what if, Evans turns out to be the next Wade, and what if Hawes turns out to be one of the top 5 or 10 centers in the league. Etc, etc, etc. Those on the negative side are saying what if none of these guys turn into good players. Were doomed and all going to hell...
The truth is, that at this point in time, no one can say for sure how any one player is going to turn out or what his ceiling is. So all any of us have is hope. Hope that the FO is correct in their estimation of the talent level they've drafted, and how good each player can eventually become. I could sit here and type endlessly about each player and why I think said player should turn out to be a good player, or maybe a great player. But in truth, I can see any futher into the future than you can. Its just a guess on my part. An educated guess, but still a guess. Personally, I would rather make a positive guess. Just makes me feel better about things. Its sort of like, I would rather take a guess that a comet isn't going to hit the earth, than think that one is going to hit the earth. It just makes the coffee go down a little easier in the morning.
So I'm not trying to be critical of your opinion. I guess I just don't understand it. Come January, I could. Especially if the team really sucks in January. As they say, hope springs eternal. It does for me every off season. At least until I actually have a reason not to hope. That might happen, but for me, its a little early to be negative about things.
i see where you are coming from but i honestly believe we started the rebuild the minute we traded webber. because when he was traded he was playing great basketball. we were one of the top teams in the conference and the only great team in the west was san antonio. we threw away our season just to trade webber, we couldve easily beaten the sonics that year if we had kept webber. possibly upset the spurs as well.... everything else has just been our fron office trying to get rid of our previous team. every year we traded one piece, peja, then bibby and now miller... no one is left from the team that we had when we first traded webber with the exception of martin who was a rookie who couldnt even make our playoff team that year. martin is now the first piece of this new kings team.
like i said , we have our 5 but they really arent as good as some of the other young cores from the other rebuilding teams in the league. the sad part is that we have more overall pieces than most teams and we are still the worst team in the league. our core is like 8 deep excluding beno and nocioni; only martin and garcia are not on a rookie deal.
sergio/evans
martin/garcia
greene/casspi
thompson/brockman
hawes
our team is more or less built, it just hasnt been tested. and im willing to guess that this team wont be very good as is. even after 3 years of playing together do any of you see this team as a top team in the nba? no...
but the grizzlies on the other hand.... they might be too good for their own good individually... mayo and gay might be to good to work out for the grizz. im almost positive that they will have the problem that we all think that evans and martin will have if evans pans out. luckily for the grizz gay can play sf because mayo isnt a pg. martin cant play sf so i hope that evans can play pg, though i dont think he can... so they might not last as long as mayo and gay. gasol and thabeet can work together and hopefully conley becomes a worthwhile pg. he has the tools to be a rondo type pg, athletic but cant shoot all that well.
ElRey
Starter
Let's see. Here are the draft picks for those teams you mentioned for the past 4 years. ( in reverse order from 2009 on)
OKC: #3, #4, #2, #10
Minnesota: #6, #3, #7, #6
Clippers: #1, #7, #14, No lottery pick
Portland: No lottery pick, #13, #1, #4
Memphis: #2, #5, #4, No lottery pick
Sac: #4, #12, #10, No lottery pick
You tell me which teams have had better draft picks to work with and who starting rebuilding first? I would LOVE to have the draft picks of any of those other teams to rebuild with the past few years!
That doesn't really tell the story, though. Portland's picks the last 4 years were: Tyrus Thomas (traded), Greg Oden (too physically worn out to amount to anything?), Brandon Rush (traded), and BJ Mullens (traded). While we got, and kept, Douby, Hawes, JT and Evans. They didn't really do better in the draft than us, I'm not even sure that they did as well. Their only advantage was in getting a #1 pick which, so far, is looking like the next Pervis. They are in the position they are because their FO has done a really amazing bunch of team-building trades, while ours has focused on cutting costs.
And let's not forget that we could have had these draft picks if Geoff had just committed to the rebuild and made more sensible moves sooner rather than trying the 3 year stop-gap approach. I still find it frustrating that with a couple of tremendously talented drafts approaching, we chose to try and keep winning and then self-destructed prior to an awful year (talent-wise). That's where I get frustrated that there didn't seem to be any plan as to how to approach this rebuild.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
You surely haven't forgotten that Webb blew out his knee, and was never the same after that. He wasn't traded as the beginning of the rebuild, but because he just wasn't the same player, and had a huge contract that the Kings were trying to get rid of. There were conversations all over this fourm about whether Webb could be traded or not. Most, including myself, thought at the time that there wouldn't be anyone stupid enough to trade for Webb. We were wrong, but perhaps the last laugh was on us, at least as far as the trade went. Peja wasn't traded as part of a rebuild. That had the Maloffs fingerprints all over it. Artest just wasn't the type of player Petrie would go out and get. Its possible, considering that he brought in Webb, but Webb wasn't crazy, and he could pass the ball.
As far as the rebuild being over. I seriously doubt that. We have a young core, but were far from done. We need depth at the center position, and perhaps competition at that position also. We need to settle on a permanent SF, and I'm not sure that player is even on the team at the present time. We need better depth at the PF position, unless May suddenly emerges as a born again basketball player.
I'm not going to go through every other up and coming young team. It would take too long. But Hawes matches up very well with most of the centers on all of those teams. Sure, he's not as strong as Marc Gasol, but he's more skilled and quicker. Thabeet is at least three years away from being a good NBA player, if ever. Minny has no center. They do have Al and he's a great player, but he really a PF. Thompson played Love even, or outplayed him in their matchups. I like the Clips, but being the Clips, they'll find a way to screw it up. Of all the young teams, I like Portland the most, but if Oden doesn't arrive at some point, that will be a setback. I like Oklahoma. They have a true star in Durant. Westbrook is nice, but not really a point guard at present. I think Harden is a great addition to thier team, and Green was one of my favorite players coming out of college. So after Portland, I like Oklahoma. Other than those two teams, I think the Kings would match up well with the rest of the young teams.
I thought last year was the year for the Hornets to emerge as one of the top dogs. Instead they took two steps backwards. They remind me a lot of the Bulls with Jordan until they got Pippen. Anyway, I'm being too long winded here. I understand where your coming from. I just happen to value some of our players more than you do and I don't think as highly of some of the other teams as you do. I try very hard to be objective and not let my Kingly emotions sway me. For instance. I really like Thompson, and I think he can be a very good player. However, I have very high expectations for him. I don't expect him to reach those expectations this year. But I do expect him to be much better than last year. I will be very disappointed if he doesn't show improvement. And I will say so. I believe thats fair and also rational. I hate being wrong. Not as much as my son does. But almost!!
Arby's Roast Beef
Starter
Hinrich isn't even a true PG.
ElRey
Starter
Those are just draft picks that the teams started out with, obviously what they did with the picks was up to the team. There are of course trades, free agent signings that teams could do to improve the team too. But I was just using the draft picks to illustrated what "chips" all those "superior" teams had to play with compared to us.
A
AriesMar27
Guest
thank you... portland didnt draft brandon roy or aldridge. they traded for them because they knew that they were better than the players that they had drafted. the grizzlies didnt draft mayo or gay or gasol.... they traded for them. we kept our scrubs... i cant think of another team with that many players that were drafted by the team that they are on. almost our entire core was drafted by the kings with the exception of greene and sergio. thats like 7 players. how many teams have more than 7 players on their team that they atually drafted?evans, martin, garcia, casspi, thompson, brockman(i guess kinda) hawes... well the lakers do but only bynum is part of their core. the rest are scrubs, walton, sasha, farmar, sun yue and fisher oddly enough.... kobe was traded for...
kingsnation
All-Star
Walton, Farmar, Sasha and Fisher are not scrubs.
A
AriesMar27
Guest
since when? i live in los angeles and all of my roommates are laker fans... ive watched damn near every laker game for the last several years... they are scrubs.... you swap the lakers scrubs for our scrubs and the lakers would still win the championship.... and we would still win only 17 games... maybe less.
you swap beno, sergio, garcia and greene for fisher, farmar, sasha and walton this team would be worse than they are now. those players are scrubs... well i like sergio and farmar but they really arent starter quality pgs yet so they are scrubs by association.
It's not just starter or scrub. There have to be role players. Farmar, Sasha and Fisher at least know their roles and play them properly. Luke Walton, on the other hand, is just a big dumb bozo... I swear I expect to hear the "PING!" and see sparkly stars when he smiles...
kingsnation
All-Star
Ok. Farmar, Walton and Sasha. Fine. No need to go round and round there.
EDIT: VF got it right with Farmar and Sasha. They are role players, and they play their roles well with the Lakers.
But Fisher's a scrub? Who are these Laker fans?
Chupacabra
Starter
Im all for anything that facilitates creative thinking, but trading for a pg when we just used the #4 pick to draft one? First off, Evans was drafted as a pg because he has the skillset necessary to play pg. The only thing that should cause worry about Tyrekes turnover problems is his age. Other than that hes a tremendous ball handler. If Evans even has average passing skill his height will make him an above average passer. The league is full of adequate-amazing point guards, so why would we trade our star player (Martin) to get one? I say we make a trade to get some legitimate interior defense/rebounding.
Last edited:
Rookie
Starter
Last edited:
Similar threads
