Trade Bagley?

Yeah. I was a little harsh on @Section 101 specifically, when my frustration is in general about the scapegoating.

Without digging in too deep, the team may not have the personnel to execute the scheme the coaches want. IMHO, the breakdown is initially happening at the guard level affecting everything else from there in large part.
And this is why the coaches will ultimately be held accountable. And should. Besides the scheme they really keep shoving is garbage in todays game. If you want to have a shot on defense you need versatile players with length and agility to guard 2-3 positions. There's no way around it.
 
I agree with Turgenev, but the discussion above is a gross understatement.
The Kings invite people to the rim and are very polite about it.
Their perimeter defense on the other hand can be even worse.
 
Well if Bagley played for another team would we been interested in trading for him?

Uhh no. So it's not a surprise.

I would take a second round pick and move on.
 
I'd take one more year of Bagley and let him walk over a 2nd round pick. At least that's one year of NBA minutes vs. just cheering for a guy who's name you'll forget in the G-League.
If they called the Warriors and asked to trade him for Eric Paschall, they wouldn't even consider it. He was the 41st pick in that draft. That's where we are with the guy who was chosen instead of Doncic
 
If they called the Warriors and asked to trade him for Eric Paschall, they wouldn't even consider it. He was the 41st pick in that draft. That's where we are with the guy who was chosen instead of Doncic
I completely disagree. The warriors would jump on that trade in a heartbeat. Yes Bagley has been disappointing but he is light years ahead of Paschall
 
I completely disagree. The warriors would jump on that trade in a heartbeat. Yes Bagley has been disappointing but he is light years ahead of Paschall
With his value being where it is (very low), the problem is the Kings won't be willing make a deal like that, because of "optics". What will likely happen, is no trade, he plays out his contract. and they end up with nothing in return for the 2nd pick in that draft. Wonderful
 
Rumor mill says Detroit said NO to a Bagley for Saddiq Bey swap; and both sides seem ready to move on.
Truly is sad how low his value has dipped. If you’d have to venture to guess SLAB, you think MB3 is still with the team after the deadline? It seems like the Kings aren’t even trying to hide the fact that they are making him available anymore which is a development from the past
 

SLAB

Hall of Famer
Truly is sad how low his value has dipped. If you’d have to venture to guess SLAB, you think MB3 is still with the team after the deadline? It seems like the Kings aren’t even trying to hide the fact that they are making him available anymore which is a development from the past
I don’t think anyone else wants him enough to make it worthwhile for the Kings. With his value in the tank you keep him and hope for the best.

I think an eventual change of scenery is the best for both sides, but you can’t just give him away.
 
I don’t think anyone else wants him enough to make it worthwhile for the Kings. With his value in the tank you keep him and hope for the best.

I think an eventual change of scenery is the best for both sides, but you can’t just give him away.
I agree on holding onto him for now and seeing if you can maybe package him with another player or pick for a solid return this summer. As it stands, does not seem like his individual value is enough to make the trade worthwhile from our perspective
 
It is not an absurd trade. If it wasn't for the fact that Marvin is injured right now seems relatively fair to me but I can see why the Pistons would have rejected (mostly due to extra years on the rookie contract).
I would have been thrilled if this trade went down.
I believed Bey would be a King prior to the draft, and think he is exactly the type of physical, hard-nosed player we need.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Regardless of what my original opinion of a player was, I always try and put on my objectivity hat when I reappraise him a few years later. So with that said, I really liked Bagley coming out of college, and I believe I said prior to that draft, that I would be happy with any of three players, Bagley, Doncic, and Jaren Jackson. Of course it's easy to sit here now and clearly see that Doncic, until one of the other two prove otherwise, was the best player of that threesome.

I actually watched Doncic play a lot in the European league, and there's no doubt he was a star there, but nothing he did, made me believe he would be as good as he turned out to be. As a matter of fact, I felt he wasn't in the best shape he needed to be in, and that his 3pt shot was very inconsistent. But hey, kudo's to him. He appears to be the real deal.

The general consensus on Bagley seems to be that yes, so far he hasn't lived up to being the 2nd pick in the draft, but he is improving, if slowly.

Bagley year one: 25 mpg - 14.9 ppg - 50.4% fgp - 31.3% 3pp - 69.1% ftp - 7.6 rpg - 1.0 apg - 0.5 stl's - 1.0 Blk's
Bagley year three: 25 mpg - 13.9 ppg - 50.2% fgp - 35.4% 3pp - 56.0% ftp - 7.4 rpt - 0.9 apg - 0.5 stl's - 0.5 Blk's

The stat line makes the argument of his improvement a little tough. Yes, he has improved his three point shot, and I think his on the ball defense, especially away from the basket has improved. But his off the ball defense is still terrible at times. His free throw shooting has regressed. In short, it's not the kind of jump your looking for.

Of course the counter argument is that his injuries have slowed his development, and that's a fair argument. But when your evaluating a players worth to the team, his ability to put on a uniform and get out on the floor is part of the equation. It's not about blame, its simply about facts. I always said that Jason Thompsons greatest asset to the Kings was his durability. You can be the most talented player in the league, but if you can't get on the floor and play, your value drops like a rock.

None of this means that another team doesn't think that a change of scenery won't help Bagley. And maybe it would. He wouldn't go to another team with the same expectations being put on him. So the problem with trading him isn't about his talent, but about how much he's making, and will make next season, which is 11.3 mil. The following season he has a qualifying offer of around 14 mil. That's a lot of money to take on for a still unproven player.

Would I trade Marvin for Bey? That's a hard one for me. Anyone that reads the crap I write knows that I'm a big fan of Bey's, and had him pegged as my choice for the Kings in this last draft. Of course that's before Haliburton dropped to us. Do I think Bagley will be a better player than Bey. I think he could be, but here's the thing, it doesn't matter if he's injured all the time. But I'm certainly not ready to give Bagley away for a 2nd rd pick and a bag of chips. That's nonsense!

I think the only way the Kings get value for Bagley is by staying the course, or as part of a much larger trade that makes sense. Am I willing to move on from Bagley? I think that if I could get a player that fits what the team is doing and who could help us take another step toward being competitive in the Western Conference, then yes! At the end of the day, I don't care about Bagley or any particular player, I care about winning. And when it comes to players, I go back to that old statement. "Your either part of the problem, or your part of the solution". If your not part of the solution, then goodbye!
 
With his value being where it is (very low), the problem is the Kings won't be willing make a deal like that, because of "optics". What will likely happen, is no trade, he plays out his contract. and they end up with nothing in return for the 2nd pick in that draft. Wonderful
I think more likely Bagley signs a cheap 2nd contract and the Kings consider matching. Or Bags takes the one year option and 14M and prays he doesn’t get hurt again.
 
Imo with Bagley the most important thing is not to act with sunk cost fallacy. Wether it means overvaluing him in trade discussions or extending him to any meaningfull contract just because he was stupidly taken 2nd in the draft. That was a huge mistake the very second it happened, not just because of Luka but as a prospect he should've never been drafted that high. Before someone says "he was 2-4 in mock drafts", only thing that I can say is listen to smarter "experts" or analysts. Certain analysts had Luka in his own tier and Bagley not in the top 5. Same people had Lamelo Ball in his own tier ect.

Its Bagleys third season. We have a lot of data and film available for us. The same concerns are there: he simply is not contributing to winning. He is extremely athletic and talented but unfortunately the combination of his individual skills dont translate to wins. If he is a negative defender at 4, not above average floor spacer and unable to create for others, then its very hard for him to be a net positive player. Thats unfortunate but as the team knows that, trades should be proposed in the hopes of some gm overvaluing him. The actual trade value wont get any higher than this and extension for him should be off the table. Get anything you can and move on
 
Regardless of what my original opinion of a player was, I always try and put on my objectivity hat when I reappraise him a few years later. So with that said, I really liked Bagley coming out of college, and I believe I said prior to that draft, that I would be happy with any of three players, Bagley, Doncic, and Jaren Jackson. Of course it's easy to sit here now and clearly see that Doncic, until one of the other two prove otherwise, was the best player of that threesome.

I actually watched Doncic play a lot in the European league, and there's no doubt he was a star there, but nothing he did, made me believe he would be as good as he turned out to be. As a matter of fact, I felt he wasn't in the best shape he needed to be in, and that his 3pt shot was very inconsistent. But hey, kudo's to him. He appears to be the real deal.

The general consensus on Bagley seems to be that yes, so far he hasn't lived up to being the 2nd pick in the draft, but he is improving, if slowly.

Bagley year one: 25 mpg - 14.9 ppg - 50.4% fgp - 31.3% 3pp - 69.1% ftp - 7.6 rpg - 1.0 apg - 0.5 stl's - 1.0 Blk's
Bagley year three: 25 mpg - 13.9 ppg - 50.2% fgp - 35.4% 3pp - 56.0% ftp - 7.4 rpt - 0.9 apg - 0.5 stl's - 0.5 Blk's

The stat line makes the argument of his improvement a little tough. Yes, he has improved his three point shot, and I think his on the ball defense, especially away from the basket has improved. But his off the ball defense is still terrible at times. His free throw shooting has regressed. In short, it's not the kind of jump your looking for.

Of course the counter argument is that his injuries have slowed his development, and that's a fair argument. But when your evaluating a players worth to the team, his ability to put on a uniform and get out on the floor is part of the equation. It's not about blame, its simply about facts. I always said that Jason Thompsons greatest asset to the Kings was his durability. You can be the most talented player in the league, but if you can't get on the floor and play, your value drops like a rock.

None of this means that another team doesn't think that a change of scenery won't help Bagley. And maybe it would. He wouldn't go to another team with the same expectations being put on him. So the problem with trading him isn't about his talent, but about how much he's making, and will make next season, which is 11.3 mil. The following season he has a qualifying offer of around 14 mil. That's a lot of money to take on for a still unproven player.

Would I trade Marvin for Bey? That's a hard one for me. Anyone that reads the crap I write knows that I'm a big fan of Bey's, and had him pegged as my choice for the Kings in this last draft. Of course that's before Haliburton dropped to us. Do I think Bagley will be a better player than Bey. I think he could be, but here's the thing, it doesn't matter if he's injured all the time. But I'm certainly not ready to give Bagley away for a 2nd rd pick and a bag of chips. That's nonsense!

I think the only way the Kings get value for Bagley is by staying the course, or as part of a much larger trade that makes sense. Am I willing to move on from Bagley? I think that if I could get a player that fits what the team is doing and who could help us take another step toward being competitive in the Western Conference, then yes! At the end of the day, I don't care about Bagley or any particular player, I care about winning. And when it comes to players, I go back to that old statement. "Your either part of the problem, or your part of the solution". If your not part of the solution, then goodbye!
Counter-argument: Jason Thompson's durability is directly responsible for the franchise leader in "games played" in the Sacramento era being Jason Thompson -- so maybe that's not such a good thing? :D

I agree with all of this though, very nice post. The lack of any significant statistical progression from year one to year three is pretty alarming. At this point we're pretty much just waiting for a light bulb to go on with him because the development curve has either stalled out or never gotten started. ** Maybe he's one of those players who didn't realize how much improvement was going to be required at the NBA level. I would absolutely trade him for Saddiq Bey considering how badly we need wing defenders (not to mention shooting is always valuable) but I wouldn't make that trade if I'm Detroit.

Ultimately nobody is going to care where you were drafted when it comes time for that second contract. Either you've proven your value to the league or you haven't. With Marvin, I think he's a bench big on a good team right now until he proves otherwise.

**EDIT: Some might argue that Luke's short leash is what's holding him back but if that were the case we'd still be seeing statistical progression somewhere.
 
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