Top 3 pick selection?
- Thread starter macadocious
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Injuries scare me a bit with Embiid. In a normal draft, you don't even worry about it and u take Embiid 1. But with 2 talents like Wiggins and Parker available, you need to be 100% that Embiid doesn't have any major long-term injury concerns.
Of course, knowing our luck, we'll get Embiid, and this draft it will become an Oden-Durant situation all over again.
Of course, knowing our luck, we'll get Embiid, and this draft it will become an Oden-Durant situation all over again.
I checked on Embiid's back problem and it will heal. Then he needs to build up a lot of muscle to protect his back. I am not worried about his back. In short, it's a stress fracture and muscle can protect the area that fractured. He hasn't played much basketball and the guess by others is that his lower back isn't as developed as it can be.
Top 3 I'm looking for someone with unique skills and athleticism, someone who projects as a two-way star if possible, and someone who at the very least you can pencil into the lineup as a starter for years to come. This is a good year to be in the top 3. I see 4 guys who easily fit that description and a fifth guy (Randle) who's not far off.
Going in reverse order, Parker (4) is just a notch below the top 3 for me because I think his unique offensive skill-set puts him in a bit of an awkward position of matching up with quicker wing players that he's going to have trouble staying in front of. He's a competitor though and as long as he's willing to work hard there's no reason why he shouldn't be an average defender capable of a spectacular block or steal every now and then.
Exum (3) fits the direction the PG position has been going with the size, athleticism, and scoring punch of a 2-guard but the versatility to balance his scoring by creating shots for his teammates. I've only seen him in 2 full games but his athletic profile really popped off the screen. I think he's every bit as quick with the ball as noted speedsters Ty Lawson and John Wall. I'd love to see Exum/McLemore/Williams on the court together for the fast-break potential alone.
Wiggins (2) has been talked about so much already, there isn't much left to say. He's such a freak athlete he could dominate match-ups on both ends of the floor. He needs to get stronger for the NBA game though. Of the players mentioned he represents the smallest upgrade at his position over the production we got this season. He's not going to be an elite scorer from day one, but I wouldn't under-estimate the impact that adding a super-athletic and long-armed pogo stick in the middle of the lineup could have on our team defense.
And of course, like everyone else, I have to go with Embiid at (1). He's not an elite shotblocker, but he's got more than enough reach, athleticism, and poise to present a real problem for other teams trying to score in the paint. Even more impressive though is the rate at which he's digesting complex post-moves and adding them to his in-game repertoire. The back injury is a concern, but he's got more potential than anyone else in the draft and should be a difference maker on defense from day one.
Going in reverse order, Parker (4) is just a notch below the top 3 for me because I think his unique offensive skill-set puts him in a bit of an awkward position of matching up with quicker wing players that he's going to have trouble staying in front of. He's a competitor though and as long as he's willing to work hard there's no reason why he shouldn't be an average defender capable of a spectacular block or steal every now and then.
Exum (3) fits the direction the PG position has been going with the size, athleticism, and scoring punch of a 2-guard but the versatility to balance his scoring by creating shots for his teammates. I've only seen him in 2 full games but his athletic profile really popped off the screen. I think he's every bit as quick with the ball as noted speedsters Ty Lawson and John Wall. I'd love to see Exum/McLemore/Williams on the court together for the fast-break potential alone.
Wiggins (2) has been talked about so much already, there isn't much left to say. He's such a freak athlete he could dominate match-ups on both ends of the floor. He needs to get stronger for the NBA game though. Of the players mentioned he represents the smallest upgrade at his position over the production we got this season. He's not going to be an elite scorer from day one, but I wouldn't under-estimate the impact that adding a super-athletic and long-armed pogo stick in the middle of the lineup could have on our team defense.
And of course, like everyone else, I have to go with Embiid at (1). He's not an elite shotblocker, but he's got more than enough reach, athleticism, and poise to present a real problem for other teams trying to score in the paint. Even more impressive though is the rate at which he's digesting complex post-moves and adding them to his in-game repertoire. The back injury is a concern, but he's got more potential than anyone else in the draft and should be a difference maker on defense from day one.
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Embiid, but I am on the fence with this one. Wiggins is going to be a star in the league. Embiid is one of those bigs that only come around every few years. If I had the #1 pick I would have many sleepless nights. We could always draft Wiggins at 1 then trade it to the second or 3rd team when they draft Embiid. Perhaps get another pick out of it or a player.
I think you have to take Embiid. The health issues concern me but remember that Andre Drummond's rookie year was cut short by the same back injury and he was fine this year. I do think whichever team takes Embiid (and hopefully the Kings get lucky and nab him) should bring him along slowly, limiting his minutes. He's new to playing basketball in general and his body isn't currently built up for the grind of the college season let alone the demands of the NBA.
In watching Wiggins, Parker and Embiid, Embiid is the guy that jumps off the screen at me. Parker is a natural scorer but given how many opportunities he gets with the ball his numbers aren't as impressive as they could be. And Wiggins started to realize his potential when Embiid went down which was reassuring but he's still got a long way to go. His floor is pretty high, say young, Bobcat era Gerald Wallace or latter day Gerald Green, as he could stick in the NBA just on his athleticism. He has the tools to be much more but the question is whether he'll reach his full potential. He's not a LeBron level talent but he could be a Paul George type player. I wonder if, like George, his on court demeanor belies his work ethic. We'll see.
But to me you can't pass on Embiid. He brings what we want next to Cuz - a rim protector and interior defender who has the size to bang in the paint and the quick feet to guard more mobile fours. Offensively his shot mechanics are really good for a guy his size and with his level of experience. I think part of that is coming to the game late and not ever developing bad habits with his shot. And if his post game comes around to the level that the little glimpses have hinted it might then you have a true twin towers setup that I think can work because of Embiid's ability to hit jump shots and DMC's offensive versatility.
They wouldn't be Vlade/CWebb because the passing likely won't reach that level but they would have higher potential for defense and rebounding.
In watching Wiggins, Parker and Embiid, Embiid is the guy that jumps off the screen at me. Parker is a natural scorer but given how many opportunities he gets with the ball his numbers aren't as impressive as they could be. And Wiggins started to realize his potential when Embiid went down which was reassuring but he's still got a long way to go. His floor is pretty high, say young, Bobcat era Gerald Wallace or latter day Gerald Green, as he could stick in the NBA just on his athleticism. He has the tools to be much more but the question is whether he'll reach his full potential. He's not a LeBron level talent but he could be a Paul George type player. I wonder if, like George, his on court demeanor belies his work ethic. We'll see.
But to me you can't pass on Embiid. He brings what we want next to Cuz - a rim protector and interior defender who has the size to bang in the paint and the quick feet to guard more mobile fours. Offensively his shot mechanics are really good for a guy his size and with his level of experience. I think part of that is coming to the game late and not ever developing bad habits with his shot. And if his post game comes around to the level that the little glimpses have hinted it might then you have a true twin towers setup that I think can work because of Embiid's ability to hit jump shots and DMC's offensive versatility.
They wouldn't be Vlade/CWebb because the passing likely won't reach that level but they would have higher potential for defense and rebounding.
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Daugherty's back didn't show itself until 3 or 4 seasons into his career, so Drummond playing full second season doesn't provide any information or encouragement. Considering that Embiid is still unpolished and foul prone, you may not get any really strong seasons out of him. Then again he might proceed to have a HOF career.
Big men are always an injury risk. David Robinson had the most impressive build of any center I've ever seen and still his back and foot cost him a season (which of course led to Duncan being drafted) and later curtailed his production significantly before his retirement. Honestly I expected Shaq to decline much earlier and much more rapidly than he did just due to the wear and tear on such a massive frame. Vlade Divac was remarkably durable but I'd attribute that to the same reasons that Andre Miller is durable - ground bound, not a lot of quick twitch moves, not a lot of muscle tightness due to not really ever hitting the weight room etc.
If the Kings land a top 3 pick and Embiid is on the board I think you have to take that risk. I think this is a deep draft, but I don't think it's nearly as strong at the top as people want to make it out to be. I think Parker can be a Carmelo like player and I think Wiggins has the the potential to be a smaller, more athletic Paul George but Parker will need to adjust to the league and learn to guard quicker threes and Wiggins is a big ball of potential who needs major refinements to his ball handling, shooting, passing, defensive fundamentals etc. And there are other players who may certainly develop into all-star level talents but right now the only guy I see as having franchise player type potential is Embiid.
Hakeem Olajuwon is my all time favorite big man. Watching him work in the post was like watching Barry Sanders run the football - you always got the sense that he could do things other guys just couldn't. So coordinated and controlled. Such a great defender. Watching him dismantle David Robinson and a young Shaq in the playoffs proved to me that he was the best of that era. So I can't help but sneer a bit at the notion of Embiid being the next Dream. But if he's even anywhere near that level you'd have two of the best big men in the game, if not the absolute best two. And two guys who could definitely learn to play off one another.
If Embiid ends up being Oden to Parker or Wiggins (or even Exum's) Durant then so be it. But I'd never fault the FO for drafting him. I think you swing for the fences.
If the Kings land a top 3 pick and Embiid is on the board I think you have to take that risk. I think this is a deep draft, but I don't think it's nearly as strong at the top as people want to make it out to be. I think Parker can be a Carmelo like player and I think Wiggins has the the potential to be a smaller, more athletic Paul George but Parker will need to adjust to the league and learn to guard quicker threes and Wiggins is a big ball of potential who needs major refinements to his ball handling, shooting, passing, defensive fundamentals etc. And there are other players who may certainly develop into all-star level talents but right now the only guy I see as having franchise player type potential is Embiid.
Hakeem Olajuwon is my all time favorite big man. Watching him work in the post was like watching Barry Sanders run the football - you always got the sense that he could do things other guys just couldn't. So coordinated and controlled. Such a great defender. Watching him dismantle David Robinson and a young Shaq in the playoffs proved to me that he was the best of that era. So I can't help but sneer a bit at the notion of Embiid being the next Dream. But if he's even anywhere near that level you'd have two of the best big men in the game, if not the absolute best two. And two guys who could definitely learn to play off one another.
If Embiid ends up being Oden to Parker or Wiggins (or even Exum's) Durant then so be it. But I'd never fault the FO for drafting him. I think you swing for the fences.
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I'd go with Embiid, but I'm more worried about his game translating than others. Worry about his hands and strength. That said, he blocks shots and rebounds, and has shown that he's a quick learner and has good offensive potential. That sounds like a pretty good fit next to Cousins. If I knew that we won't have Gay, I'd have to think very hard about passing on Parker and Wiggins though.
The question I have to ask is simple: what do you think would happen if we drafted Hakeem Olajuwon, as he was as a rook, this year to pair with Boogie? I'd tell you what would happen: you would have perhaps the greatest frontcourt pairing in the history of the NBA. Sampson's knees went after only a couple of years. Admiral was on his way down. Its incredibly tempting to take a shot at that. You would know exactly who you were as a team for the next 10-12 years and just have to turn your attention to filling in the perimeter with accurate spot shooters.
The problem is that Embiid is not Hakeem, and not even close. The comparison has people going bananas, but it's not that accurate (and is largely made due to his late take up of the game and being from Africa). If you squint hard you can see the similar type of games, but he's just not going to ever reach that level. Now you wouldn't expect anyone to reach that level as it's just not fair or realistic to expect a kid to get there, but even so, it's considerably less likely than people think. Embiid has a very real problem with his hands. I've seen him fumble too many passes to ever expect him to be a true #1 option. Course we don't need that with Boogie here, so you just take him for his defensive potential and talent. Not saying he won't be a good offensive player as he has some very impressive tools to work with (passing ability, nice touch, footwork, some beautiful post work etc) but I don't think he's ever going to be a force ala Cuz.
I still take him number one - he's exactly what we need and the point still stands of potentially having two of the best big men in the game and a legitimate anchor. That's easy to build around.
I still take him number one - he's exactly what we need and the point still stands of potentially having two of the best big men in the game and a legitimate anchor. That's easy to build around.
you're absolutely right about the freakish coordination being what made Hakeem Hakeem. Then again I don't really know what Hakeem looked like as an 18 yr old.
But the comparison is more than just about Embiid's background, or rather maybe its got everything with him studying Hakeem, wanting to emulate him, and here's the thing, sometimes actually succeeding. far more than Dwight Howard who Hakeem has worked with for a decade to dubious effect. You can either do those things, or you can't. And Embiid shows flashes of being able to do them.
Some clips here, queued right to the spot with the moves of note:
NOTE: it appears our embedding software won't accept timestamping, so I have inserted a space in each address between "youtube" and ".com". Copy/paste and close it and it will take you right to the plays.
first of all, watch these two plays. The first one is Boogiesque, a change of direction drive and finish from outside. Then the second one is an actual pure Dreamshake:
https://www.youtube .com/watch?v=ZvUuag32OZE#t=0m30s
this is less spectacular, but this too is straight out of Dream's playbook, the baseline dribble and then spin for the little layup over the front of the rim:
https://www.youtube .com/watch?v=ZvUuag32OZE#t=0m51s
there's some clumsy Dream in this:
https://www.youtube .com/watch?v=ZvUuag32OZE#t=1m21s
here we got jump hooks over one shoulder, then next play a over the other:
https://www.youtube .com/watch?v=ZvUuag32OZE#t=2m06s
That whole thing BTW is actually a good highlight vid because whoever made it actually understood there is more to the game than just dunks, and we get to see a lot of his defensive abilities:
different vid, but again, this move is vintage Hakeem:
https://www.youtube .com/watch?v=P8_MDi2bZrU#t=0m47s
And he's only been playing a few years. Guys who've been playing for 20 years can't do those kind of things. Given his stage of development he's very skilled. Calling anybody Hakeem is just stupid, but the comparisons run deeper than just background. He's raw, but he shows flashes of PLAYING like him at times, and that's something we haven't often seen.
But the comparison is more than just about Embiid's background, or rather maybe its got everything with him studying Hakeem, wanting to emulate him, and here's the thing, sometimes actually succeeding. far more than Dwight Howard who Hakeem has worked with for a decade to dubious effect. You can either do those things, or you can't. And Embiid shows flashes of being able to do them.
Some clips here, queued right to the spot with the moves of note:
NOTE: it appears our embedding software won't accept timestamping, so I have inserted a space in each address between "youtube" and ".com". Copy/paste and close it and it will take you right to the plays.
first of all, watch these two plays. The first one is Boogiesque, a change of direction drive and finish from outside. Then the second one is an actual pure Dreamshake:
https://www.youtube .com/watch?v=ZvUuag32OZE#t=0m30s
this is less spectacular, but this too is straight out of Dream's playbook, the baseline dribble and then spin for the little layup over the front of the rim:
https://www.youtube .com/watch?v=ZvUuag32OZE#t=0m51s
there's some clumsy Dream in this:
https://www.youtube .com/watch?v=ZvUuag32OZE#t=1m21s
here we got jump hooks over one shoulder, then next play a over the other:
https://www.youtube .com/watch?v=ZvUuag32OZE#t=2m06s
That whole thing BTW is actually a good highlight vid because whoever made it actually understood there is more to the game than just dunks, and we get to see a lot of his defensive abilities:
different vid, but again, this move is vintage Hakeem:
https://www.youtube .com/watch?v=P8_MDi2bZrU#t=0m47s
And he's only been playing a few years. Guys who've been playing for 20 years can't do those kind of things. Given his stage of development he's very skilled. Calling anybody Hakeem is just stupid, but the comparisons run deeper than just background. He's raw, but he shows flashes of PLAYING like him at times, and that's something we haven't often seen.
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Embiid is special. He's the most impressive C prospect I've seen since I started following college basketball and that includes Cousins and Oden. Both of those guys had elite skills but Oden was limited offensively to bullying people in the paint and dunking on them and Cousins was scary dominant but also ground bound and a notorious hothead. Joakim Noah and Nerlens Noel had better defensive numbers but non-existent offensive games. Embiid is the rare 7 foot athlete who looks like he was just born to play basketball. His moves are almost graceful. He shot nearly 70% from the free throw line as a freshman with limited experience playing the game. Like Brick pointed out so well, he's already mastered post moves that NBA centers like Howard and Okafor have spent their entire careers trying and failing to master. It's all about the counter move. Very few guys that size have a plan B when the defender takes away their favorite move. Embiid at times looks like he's got a plan A, B, C, and D. You have to pinch yourself sometimes because former volleyball/soccer players with "potential" don't pull off these kinds of moves and convert 64% of the time. And he's got an outside jumper. And he's pretty good at finding the open man out of the double-team.
The only thing I kindof worry about with Embiid is whether he's too good offensively to comfortably play alongside Cousins but then I slap myself, realize I'm an idiot, and admit that having the two best offensive centers in the league on the same team (because seriously guys, Embiid has that kind of potential) is a free pass to the promised land. Too far? Yeah probably. He's still a 20 year old and he's not going to be an NBA phenomenon from day 1. Well... probably not. But he's a damn good prospect. He's a legit 7 foot C who can defend the post and also score in a lot of nifty ways. We all know what Cousins is capable of. Add Embiid to that and find three athletes who can shoot, move the ball, and cut off screens and your offense practically designs itself. Statistically Embiid was a little bit better than Cousins as a shotblocker in the same amount of minutes as a freshman, so maybe that projects to top 10-15 in the league. Not elite, but certainly solid and with Cousins contributing as well that's an imposing front line for any team to stare down.
It's easy to get carried away at this point in the year as we all get tunnel vision around the draft, but the hype on Embiid is warranted I think. And I'd say the same for Wiggins, Exum, and Parker without question. That doesn't mean they'll all be stars, but based on everything I've seen so far I'd bet on any one of them and feel comfortable about it.
The only thing I kindof worry about with Embiid is whether he's too good offensively to comfortably play alongside Cousins but then I slap myself, realize I'm an idiot, and admit that having the two best offensive centers in the league on the same team (because seriously guys, Embiid has that kind of potential) is a free pass to the promised land. Too far? Yeah probably. He's still a 20 year old and he's not going to be an NBA phenomenon from day 1. Well... probably not. But he's a damn good prospect. He's a legit 7 foot C who can defend the post and also score in a lot of nifty ways. We all know what Cousins is capable of. Add Embiid to that and find three athletes who can shoot, move the ball, and cut off screens and your offense practically designs itself. Statistically Embiid was a little bit better than Cousins as a shotblocker in the same amount of minutes as a freshman, so maybe that projects to top 10-15 in the league. Not elite, but certainly solid and with Cousins contributing as well that's an imposing front line for any team to stare down.
It's easy to get carried away at this point in the year as we all get tunnel vision around the draft, but the hype on Embiid is warranted I think. And I'd say the same for Wiggins, Exum, and Parker without question. That doesn't mean they'll all be stars, but based on everything I've seen so far I'd bet on any one of them and feel comfortable about it.
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I think Embiid has the highest ceiling and the only thing that would will hold him back is injuries(barring injuries he will end up being the best player in this draft). Wiggins to me has a high ceiling but also bust potential. At times you see flashes of something special and at times he looks like Wesley Johnson. His baskeball IQ is very average and he doesn't have that "IT" factor that the best players show even from a young age. Parker on the other hand does have the "it" factor and imo is the safest pick, at worst i see him as a Rudy Gay and at best a Paul Pierce/Melo hybrid.
For me its
1. Embiid
2. Parker
3. Wiggins
For me its
1. Embiid
2. Parker
3. Wiggins
- Joel Embiid
- Andre Wiggins
- Jabari Parker
- Dante Exum
- Julius Randle
Joel Embiid is a very talented, high upside player. He would be a near perfect center to build around. The problem with this pick is what would happen with Cousins. Would this mean the team blows up the existing line up to rebuild through the lottery? Or would they keep the team intact and shift Cousins to PF?
Andrew Wiggins and Jabari Parker could become two very prolific scorers. By going with either of these guys it would allow the team to trade Rudy Gay if he's still on the roster, or replace him if he opts out of his contract. Both Wiggins and Parker have tremendous upside, and could surpass Rudy Gay if every thing works out. Parker seems to be the more ready of the two, but either way the team would get a future star.
Dante Exum has the potential to be a stud at either position. We could go with a Thomas-Exum back court, or a Exum-McLemore back court, either could have the athleticism and potential to form an exciting partnership. Experts seems to compare him to a blend of Penny Hardaway and Russell Westbrook. If he develops into that type of player, then like the above two SFs, we would get a future star.
Julius Randle should be ready to make an instant contribution at PF. But does he have all-star potential? Or is he just going to be a good, solid PF contributor? I've not seen enough to comment either way, but in terms of the names on this list, he would probably be my last choice.
Overall I think I would rank these guys in the following order: Parker, Wiggins, Embiid, Exum, and Randle. Though if Cousins can shift to PF, then pairing him with Embiid at C, could form a rather special big man duo. If Cousins can make the shift, then Embiid might be my first choice.Andrew Wiggins and Jabari Parker could become two very prolific scorers. By going with either of these guys it would allow the team to trade Rudy Gay if he's still on the roster, or replace him if he opts out of his contract. Both Wiggins and Parker have tremendous upside, and could surpass Rudy Gay if every thing works out. Parker seems to be the more ready of the two, but either way the team would get a future star.
Dante Exum has the potential to be a stud at either position. We could go with a Thomas-Exum back court, or a Exum-McLemore back court, either could have the athleticism and potential to form an exciting partnership. Experts seems to compare him to a blend of Penny Hardaway and Russell Westbrook. If he develops into that type of player, then like the above two SFs, we would get a future star.
Julius Randle should be ready to make an instant contribution at PF. But does he have all-star potential? Or is he just going to be a good, solid PF contributor? I've not seen enough to comment either way, but in terms of the names on this list, he would probably be my last choice.
Sorry, But I'm not a natieve english speaker. In fact, i've never live in a country like USA o UK, only in Spain. So my english isn't good.
I'd pick embiid. But only to trade him. Because he isn't boogie, he has a much more smaller ceiling. Actually he has a worse skillset than boogie in his first workout in hight school when he begun to play. But he could be a good center. So kings can get a good trade for him.
I think that jusf nurkic is more gifted than embiid. I would like to watch a twin towers between boogie and him.
I'd pick embiid. But only to trade him. Because he isn't boogie, he has a much more smaller ceiling. Actually he has a worse skillset than boogie in his first workout in hight school when he begun to play. But he could be a good center. So kings can get a good trade for him.
I think that jusf nurkic is more gifted than embiid. I would like to watch a twin towers between boogie and him.
Personally I would take Embiid with 1st pick, but his injuries are really concerning. The last can't miss big man out of college also had injury concerns coming out... his name? Greg Oden. So, yes Embiid injury scares me. He could be the defensive stopper next to DMC for the next ten years or he could be the next greg oden. Hopefully he can stay healthy, because if he can, the Kings Front court would be set for the next 10 years.
1) Embiid
2) Wiggins
3) Exum
1) Embiid
2) Wiggins
3) Exum