Thought: we need a big guy who can also hit the 3

bluntsnbball

bluntsnbball

G-League
Watching the sixers game, i started thinking about Hawes. We traded him b/c he didnt like to play in the post, he wanted to hang around the perimeter and shoot 3's. Understandable trade, but its interesting to note that Reke had his best season when Hawes was stretching the D. When our center was on the perimeter, that left the lane wide open for reke to do his thing.

Let me be clear here though: i do not want spencer hawes back on this team, and i think first and foremost we need a rim protector. But maybe someone off the bench or even a starter, if that starter can play good D as well as stroke it from the perimeter.

Unfortunately no one comes to mind that might actually be available. Any thoughts?
 
bluntsnbball said:
Unfortunately no one comes to mind that might actually be available. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

There's been quite a bit of discussion about Ryan Anderson around here recently. I haven't seen him play a ton so I'm not sure if his D meets your criterion.
 
Spencer would actually make a great fit for us. He's really developed into a great defensive big in every facet possible and fits that rim protector criterion. I don't think his offensive game will ever develop much more than it is now, but I see his offensive skill set fitting in quite nicely with our current pieces. He's one of the best passing big men in basketball, and he doesn't need or take a lot of shots to make an impact

If you believe that Cousins can be a PF (which I'm not certain of), I see Hawes as a fantastic fit. He's another big along with Ersan or Ryan Anderson that'd I'd be willing to pay $7 mil+ to bring in.
 
My issue with Hawes (which I believe was a commonly shared viewpoint), is that he seemed like a lazy A-hole. Check out some 76ers message boards and you'll see that they see him in the same light. A lot of talk about him playing for a contract.

OTOH: We all know bigs take time, especially bigs with that kind of finesse skill set, and so so strength/athleticism. Hawes did show occasional flashes here. I remember him having a couple 5 block games.

The other thing is, say we get Hawes, tell him his role is to be a weakside defender, and a 3pt bomber on offense. All of a sudden, Reke and Cousins have a bit more room to operate in the paint with Spencer drawing opposing bigs out to the perimeter. The other good thing about having another 3pt threat is that we COULD possibly try the Reke/T-Will tandem at the 1/2, which I think has some gnarly potential for mismatches and bullying on both ends of the court. For that to go down we'd also need a 3 that can shoot (draft Barnes?).

Would be an interesting lineup, thats for sure.
 
gunks said:
My issue with Hawes (which I believe was a commonly shared viewpoint), is that he seemed like a lazy A-hole. Check out some 76ers message boards and you'll see that they see him in the same light. A lot of talk about him playing for a contract.

OTOH: We all know bigs take time, especially bigs with that kind of finesse skill set, and so so strength/athleticism. Hawes did show occasional flashes here. I remember him having a couple 5 block games.

The other thing is, say we get Hawes, tell him his role is to be a weakside defender, and a 3pt bomber on offense. All of a sudden, Reke and Cousins have a bit more room to operate in the paint with Spencer drawing opposing bigs out to the perimeter. The other good thing about having another 3pt threat is that we COULD possibly try the Reke/T-Will tandem at the 1/2, which I think has some gnarly potential for mismatches and bullying on both ends of the court. For that to go down we'd also need a 3 that can shoot (draft Barnes?).

Would be an interesting lineup, thats for sure.
Click to expand...

Hawes is not a 3pt shooter. Why do people think he is?

He's put it together on the defensive end this season, becoming one of the best defensive Centers in basketball, while being good enough offensively to make teams take notice of him (unlike McGee, Dalembert, Haywood, Jordan etc). The only problems we would run into with a Cousins-Hawes backcourt is against the super athletic PF's or the stretch 4's. Still, the rebounding would be excellent, we'd have a potentially great frontcourt defense, and they would fit together offensively.
 
bluntsnbball said:
Watching the sixers game, i started thinking about Hawes. We traded him b/c he didnt like to play in the post, he wanted to hang around the perimeter and shoot 3's. Understandable trade, but its interesting to note that Reke had his best season when Hawes was stretching the D. When our center was on the perimeter, that left the lane wide open for reke to do his thing.

Let me be clear here though: i do not want spencer hawes back on this team, and i think first and foremost we need a rim protector. But maybe someone off the bench or even a starter, if that starter can play good D as well as stroke it from the perimeter.

Unfortunately no one comes to mind that might actually be available. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

If we take Petrie at his word, then if you could find a shot blocker and a guy who could shoot threes, you'd kill two birds with one stone. I just don't know who is out there that fits the bill. Maybe Batum.
 
Acquiring Batum should be priority #1 in TDOS if you ask me. More important than resigning JT or anything pertaining the draft.

Edit: Ersan Ilyasova is worth considering if someone wants to overpay for JT, I like his game and think he's a hardworker who has earned the payday but within reason of course.
 
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Terrence Jones is a weak side shot blocker who has some 3 pt ability. Not a great looking shooter but he can become a young Shawn Marion type, with a little more size and less rebounding.
 
Capt. Factorial said:
There's been quite a bit of discussion about Ryan Anderson around here recently. I haven't seen him play a ton so I'm not sure if his D meets your criterion.
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Anderson can certainly shoot the ball, and he's a good iso defender. But no, he's not a shotblocker in the strict sense of the word. I actually wouldn't mind having Spence back. His play has really improved, and he defends the basket far better than he did when he was here. He's certainly no Ibaka, but he'll block a few shots, and he does make his presence known in the post now.
 
3pt shooting from the 'big' position ..

Doesn't Antawn Jamison seem like a likely half-assed 'star' move the Maloofs would make? I can hear Napier praising this move now ..
 
gunks said:
My issue with Hawes (which I believe was a commonly shared viewpoint), is that he seemed like a lazy A-hole. Check out some 76ers message boards and you'll see that they see him in the same light. A lot of talk about him playing for a contract.

OTOH: We all know bigs take time, especially bigs with that kind of finesse skill set, and so so strength/athleticism. Hawes did show occasional flashes here. I remember him having a couple 5 block games.

The other thing is, say we get Hawes, tell him his role is to be a weakside defender, and a 3pt bomber on offense. All of a sudden, Reke and Cousins have a bit more room to operate in the paint with Spencer drawing opposing bigs out to the perimeter. The other good thing about having another 3pt threat is that we COULD possibly try the Reke/T-Will tandem at the 1/2, which I think has some gnarly potential for mismatches and bullying on both ends of the court. For that to go down we'd also need a 3 that can shoot (draft Barnes?).

Would be an interesting lineup, thats for sure.
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First off, anything you get off a fourm has to be taken with a grain of salt. Some Philly fans would think were ready to dump Tyreke if they read our posts. One thing you need to understand. Hawes isn't the same player that left here. His entire game is different, and I think you have to give credit to their coaching staff. His second year in sacramento he shot 115 three's. Last year he shot only 37 in 81 games. So far this year he's only taken 12. Philly runs the ball through him a good portion of the time, so he gets his touches just about everytime down the floor, which keeps him involved. He does work out of the high post quite a bit, but posts up down low as well, where he's turned into a very good passer when doubled.

Its easy to discard a players effort because of a contract year, but to have a good year, you still have to be talented enough to put up the numbers. If your not talented, you won't put up good numbers, contract year or not. But on the note of being lazy. I never thought that Hawes was lazy, I just thought he lacked direction in what was expected out of him. And, Hawes, like Cousins, is a very bright guy, and intelligent people tend to ask questions when they don't understand how their being used. I don't think its an accident that Westphal had run in's with both Hawes and Cousins. Westphal is a very insecure man, and you can't coach players and be insecure. If a player asks why! You explain it to him, you don't tell him to shut up and go to his room.
 
MassachusettsKingsFan said:
3pt shooting from the 'big' position ..

Doesn't Antawn Jamison seem like a likely half-assed 'star' move the Maloofs would make? I can hear Napier praising this move now ..
Click to expand...

When Jamison first came into the league, I thought, this is the luckiest player I've ever seen. I mean he threw up the strangest looking shots, and they all seemed to go in. After a few years, I came to realize that it wasn't luck. Still looks strange though. By the way, I'm in no way advocating we sign Jamison. His day has passed. Besides, to him it would seem like stepping from the frying pan and into the fire.
 
bajaden said:
First off, anything you get off a fourm has to be taken with a grain of salt. Some Philly fans would think were ready to dump Tyreke if they read our posts. One thing you need to understand. Hawes isn't the same player that left here. His entire game is different, and I think you have to give credit to their coaching staff. His second year in sacramento he shot 115 three's. Last year he shot only 37 in 81 games. So far this year he's only taken 12. Philly runs the ball through him a good portion of the time, so he gets his touches just about everytime down the floor, which keeps him involved. He does work out of the high post quite a bit, but posts up down low as well, where he's turned into a very good passer when doubled.

Its easy to discard a players effort because of a contract year, but to have a good year, you still have to be talented enough to put up the numbers. If your not talented, you won't put up good numbers, contract year or not. But on the note of being lazy. I never thought that Hawes was lazy, I just thought he lacked direction in what was expected out of him. And, Hawes, like Cousins, is a very bright guy, and intelligent people tend to ask questions when they don't understand how their being used. I don't think its an accident that Westphal had run in's with both Hawes and Cousins. Westphal is a very insecure man, and you can't coach players and be insecure. If a player asks why! You explain it to him, you don't tell him to shut up and go to his room.
Click to expand...

Oh I know, us crazy message board people are a hyperbolic bunch! And I also agree with you about Westphal. I honestly think he was one of the very worst people we could have gotten for this young team. Part of why I wouldnt really care if GP goes this offseason is that Westphal was HIS guy, and would have been fired even sooner if it wasnt for him. Totally befuddling that we let that goon "coach" here.

Thing is, I always was optimistic with Hawes while he was here, and thought he could put it together and be a really good center, but I was also pretty frustrated with him because he didnt seem to give it his all very often. Disappeared a lot and played more like he was 6'7 than 7'. Dont know if that was laziness, frustration or a combination of the two, but he also seemed like he was a pretty entitled punk. Its probably just a maturity thing. I was a punk too until I hit 24. I also read an article up here in Seattle about him working with Kemp last offseason, and wanting to bang more and change his shot selection.. Seems like it payed off.

All in all, I wouldnt really be adverse to us bringing back Hawesome. Cuz/Hawes/JT isnt really a contender frontline, but it could definitely be a playoff one!
 
Hawes in '08 in Sac :
29min 11.4 PT 7.1Reb 1.2 BLK

Hawes this year on 6ers
25min 9.6 PT 7.3Reb 1.3 BLK

Where's this grand transformation in a contract year or with good coaching? I'll fully admit that I haven't watched him much at all this year, but I'm not seeing anything significantly different than when he was here. Certainly not the rim protector we need and still a weak rebounder for his size and position.
 
sidney said:
Hawes in '08 in Sac :
29min 11.4 PT 7.1Reb 1.2 BLK

Hawes this year on 6ers
25min 9.6 PT 7.3Reb 1.3 BLK

Where's this grand transformation in a contract year or with good coaching? I'll fully admit that I haven't watched him much at all this year, but I'm not seeing anything significantly different than when he was here. Certainly not the rim protector we need and still a weak rebounder for his size and position.
Click to expand...

He was injured for a significant portion of last year, when healthy though, he's a much different player than the Hawes we had here (see the Chicago games).
 
You see? I predicted some months ago that Hawes was going to enter our thinking. Well, at least the fans' thinking. Adn truthfully I don't know which way to go on that if we ALSO got a shotblocker. Then you are replacing Jason with Hawes. Is that a big upgrade? Maybe. Versatility at least -- no frontcourt duo could match the inside/outside skills of Cousins and Hawes, and see it would be just like Vlade and Webber! Ahem.

But the great danger I have foreseen is that Hawes is pretty long and can put up ok shotblocking numbers, therefore it would be just like us to, in our eternal fascination with "skilled all around basketball players" as an answer to everythign, to try to pick him up and claim that HE was the shotblocker we needed. When in fact he was just a way for us to claim to have filled the box while doing the normal thing that has made us awful forever.

P.S. am I the only one who thinks that Cousins might well end up knocking Spencer's teeth out when he started with his know it all nonsense in the locker room? I just have a very hard time seeing those personalities mesh.
 
Bricklayer said:
You see? I predicted some months ago that Hawes was going to enter our thinking. Well, at least the fans' thinking. Adn truthfully I don't know which way to go on that if we ALSO got a shotblocker. Then you are replacing Jason with Hawes. Is that a big upgrade? Maybe. Versatility at least -- no frontcourt duo could match the inside/outside skills of Cousins and Hawes, and see it would be just like Vlade and Webber! Ahem.

But the great danger I have foreseen is that Hawes is pretty long and can put up ok shotblocking numbers, therefore it would be just like us to, in our eternal fascination with "skilled all around basketball players" as an answer to everythign, to try to pick him up and claim that HE was the shotblocker we needed. When in fact he was just a way for us to claim to have filled the box while doing the normal thing that has made us awful forever.

P.S. am I the only one who thinks that Cousins might well end up knocking Spencer's teeth out when he started with his know it all nonsense in the locker room? I just have a very hard time seeing those personalities mesh.
Click to expand...

God forbid we want a better offensive player, better passer, better post player, better man-defender, better at defensive rotations, and just as adequate at protecting the rim over every Big available in FA? I find your fascination with blocks amusing. Blocks=/=Good post defender
 
Bricklayer said:
You see? I predicted some months ago that Hawes was going to enter our thinking. Well, at least the fans' thinking. Adn truthfully I don't know which way to go on that if we ALSO got a shotblocker. Then you are replacing Jason with Hawes. Is that a big upgrade? Maybe. Versatility at least -- no frontcourt duo could match the inside/outside skills of Cousins and Hawes, and see it would be just like Vlade and Webber! Ahem.

But the great danger I have foreseen is that Hawes is pretty long and can put up ok shotblocking numbers, therefore it would be just like us to, in our eternal fascination with "skilled all around basketball players" as an answer to everythign, to try to pick him up and claim that HE was the shotblocker we needed. When in fact he was just a way for us to claim to have filled the box while doing the normal thing that has made us awful forever.

P.S. am I the only one who thinks that Cousins might well end up knocking Spencer's teeth out when he started with his know it all nonsense in the locker room? I just have a very hard time seeing those personalities mesh.
Click to expand...

By no means am I advocating signing Hawes again. I would just rather have the 7 foot tall unathletic white guy who Doug Collins seems to have taught defense to rather than the 6'9" unathletic white dude who hasn't had to play defense that much because his center is the best defensive presence in the league.
 
The_Jamal said:
God forbid we want a better offensive player, better passer, better post player, better man-defender, better at defensive rotations, and just as adequate at protecting the rim over every Big available in FA? I find your fascination with blocks amusing. Blocks=/=Good post defender
Click to expand...

I find your inability to understand the value of them kinda sad.

As is your conflation of the idea of "good post defender" with "rim protector". As I've mentioned, your thought process appears to mimic that of our front office, which would be a compliment if our front office was not so blazingly clueless.
 
Bricklayer said:
I find your inability to understand the value of them kinda sad.

As is your conflation of the idea of "good post defender" with "rim protector". As I've mentioned, your thought process appears to mimic that of our front office, which would be a compliment if our front office was not so blazingly clueless.
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You think Javale McGee is a good defensive player. There's really no point in arguing with you if you're that clueless about what constitutes being a good post defender.
 
I don't want Hawes. I don't trust contract year guys. I don't trust Hawes.

I wish there was a Raef LaFrentz type guy out there that didn't cost an arm and a leg.
 
swisshh said:
I don't want Hawes. I don't trust contract year guys. I don't trust Hawes.

I wish there was a Raef LaFrentz type guy out there that didn't cost an arm and a leg.
Click to expand...

Indeed, I've always wished we could get Raef LaFrentz on our team. :eek:
 
Sure Hawes is playing better, and hes a completely different player than he was for us. BUT overall, i think the guy is just too fragile. i dont see him having many injury free seasons in his future. I dont trust his knees.
 
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