Thomas Robinson:

[Capt. Factorial]

Hey, I'm with you. If we had a re-do on the draft right now I'd go with Drummond over the "fit" of Barnes or the ROY numbers of Lillard. My point was that we wanted to work out Robinson but couldn't compel him to come. Don't blame us for not working him out. Blame us for drafting him? Sure, we've got to own that.

 

[Bricklayer]

Hey, I'm with you. If we had a re-do on the draft right now I'd go with Drummond over the "fit" of Barnes or the ROY numbers of Lillard. My point was that we wanted to work out Robinson but couldn't compel him to come. Don't blame us for not working him out. Blame us for drafting him? Sure, we've got to own that.

Yep. I was just pointing out the dual irony that we DID work out Drummond -- would have made it a lot easier to swallow if we had worked out TRob and never had a chance to workout Drummond. And that ever since the Gerald Wallace debacle (in Geoff's mind -- it was actually a great pick) he had always said he wasn't going to draft another guy he didn't get a chance to work out. So he finally does, and hey, maybe almost no choice if agent's are colleetively blackballing your team. But anyway, he finally does again...and it looks like this time he may truly have screwed the pooch. if he had just followed his own rule this time...

 

[JB_kings]

Sam Amick has a take on this:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...-knicks-iman-shumpert-damian-lillard/1806185/

WHY THE KINGS MISSED OUT ON DAMIAN LILLARD

For anyone who thought my recent report on the dysfunctional dynamic between Sacramento Kings ownership and front office in the DeMarcus Cousins saga was covering new ground, you're forgiven for not paying attention the last couple of years.

It's been ugly on that front for quite some time, largely because of the drastic decline in the spending habits of the Maloof family that owns the team. While there was a recent increase in the price tag of this team (from minimum payroll the last two seasons to a 2012-13 payroll that is at the salary cap), the penny-pinching precedent came with a cost during the summer. According to three people with knowledge of the situation who spoke to USA TODAY Sports on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the situation, part of the reason the Kings drafted forward Thomas Robinson fifth overall out of Kansas in June instead of Rookie of the Year frontrunner and Weber State point guard Damian Lillard (who went sixth to Portland) was because of internal doubt about ownership's ability or willingness to pony up for restricted free agent forward Jason Thompson.

There was strong support for Lillard among the team's front-office and scouting staff, but the unexpected chance to grab Robinson when he slid was seen as a safer option in case the Maloofs didn't pay the market price for Thompson and the team was left with Cousins and veteran forward Chuck Hayes on the frontline. The Kings were legitimately excited to take Robinson, who was seriously considered as high as No. 2 (Charlottte), but Thompson's situation was a factor.

The Kings eventually signed Thompson, of course, with his deal reportedly worth $30.2 million over five years that came with a ripple effect on Robinson's rookie campaign. While Lillard is leading all rookies in scoring (18.4 points per game) and assists (6.4 per) while looking like a future All-Star, Robinson has had virtually no effect on the Kings' season. He's averaging just 15.1 minutes (21st among rookies), 4.3 points (23rd), and 3.8 rebounds per game (10th).

The move looks even worse considering the uncertain future of fourth-year guard Tyreke Evans, the former Rookie of the Year who was moved from lead guard to off-guard last season and who could be traded before the Feb. 21 deadline. Second-year point guards Isaiah Thomas (60th pick) and Jimmer Fredette (10th pick) took over the duties last season, but the free agent addition of point guard Aaron Brooks last summer showed the Kings weren't averse to adding another point guard.

Sacramento certainly wasn't the only team that missed on Lillard, but their miss was the worst. New Orleans made the move every general manager likely would have by taking big man Anthony Davis out of Kentucky at No. 1, while Charlotte (which already had point guard and former No. 9 pick Kemba Walker from the 2011 draft) opted for small forward Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (also out of Kentucky). Washington used its No. 3 pick to select Florida shooting guard Bradley Beal to pair with former No. 1 pick, point guard John Wall, and Cleveland picked Syracuse scoring guard Dion Waiters to pair with former No. 1 pick point guard, Kyrie Irving at No. 4.

On the rare positive side for Kings fans, their team has played .500 basketball (8-8) since starting the season 4-12.

Seems interesting that some of the inside sources lately are working to get the word out that the front office has had their hands tied by ownership. I still think they should take the best player they like that is available. If JT doesn't sign a contract, then they could have went after a cheap veteran free agent.

 

[Bricklayer]

Sam Amick has a take on this:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...-knicks-iman-shumpert-damian-lillard/1806185/



Seems interesting that some of the inside sources lately are working to get the word out that the front office has had their hands tied by ownership. I still think they should take the best player they like that is available. If JT doesn't sign a contract, then they could have went after a cheap veteran free agent.

Would that be termed "panicking into error"?

That still doesn't excuse Drummond, who obviously would have filled in for JT, and much better as it turned out. But Lillard, being an undersized sweet shooter, was obviously going to have a better chance to catch our particular "braintrust"'s eye.

 

[ElRey]

Sam Amick has a take on this:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...-knicks-iman-shumpert-damian-lillard/1806185/



Seems interesting that some of the inside sources lately are working to get the word out that the front office has had their hands tied by ownership. I still think they should take the best player they like that is available. If JT doesn't sign a contract, then they could have went after a cheap veteran free agent.

Interesting news...sad but not surprising. I don't envy Geoff Petrie's job.

btw I'm not giving on Trob like some other people here. I still think he has the potential to be a quality power forward, like Brian Grant.

 

[beb0p]

Sam Amick has a take on this:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...-knicks-iman-shumpert-damian-lillard/1806185/

Seems interesting that some of the inside sources lately are working to get the word out that the front office has had their hands tied by ownership. I still think they should take the best player they like that is available. If JT doesn't sign a contract, then they could have went after a cheap veteran free agent.

If Amick is right then the FO is even more idiotic than I thought. As you've said, they could have signed someone like Reggie Evans (or some other cheap vet) as an adequate cover if JT doesn't sign. Not to mention, we all knew TRob is not exactly the perfect fit next to Cousins. If they had wanted a JT replacement, Henson or Drummond made more sense. Hell, they could have traded the pick for a more known quality big man. Who else would use a #5 pick to pluck a role-player hole?

 

[Hadlowe]

Seems interesting that some of the inside sources lately are working to get the word out that the front office has had their hands tied by ownership. I still think they should take the best player they like that is available. If JT doesn't sign a contract, then they could have went after a cheap veteran free agent.

I still think T-Rob turns it around. If I could get in the guy's ear for three minutes, I would tell him that this year he is to do nothing on the court except set screens, rebound, and shove guys around on defense under the basket. He can get putbacks and fastbreak dunks, but should not take any other shots. Over the summer, I would tell him to develop a 15 foot spot-up jumpshot and nothing else. Every year, he adds two feet of range to that jumpshot. He does those things and he becomes Paul Milsap, which isn't a bad thing to be.

 

[beb0p]

I still think T-Rob turns it around. If I could get in the guy's ear for three minutes, I would tell him that this year he is to do nothing on the court except set screens, rebound, and shove guys around on defense under the basket. He can get putbacks and fastbreak dunks, but should not take any other shots. Over the summer, I would tell him to develop a 15 foot spot-up jumpshot and nothing else. Every year, he adds two feet of range to that jumpshot. He does those things and he becomes Paul Milsap, which isn't a bad thing to be.

The problem is that this team does not need a Paul Millsap. Even if Millsap is on the team it' still JT who is starting next to Cousins. I don't see TRob getting starter mins as long as DMC and JT are on the team; and what this team really need is a shot-blocker in the starting lineup, make JT comes off the bench; which leaves little mins for TRob. Bottom line is, the Kings have little use for TRob even if he lives up to the role-playing hustle guy.

 

[Npliam]

The problem is that this team does not need a Paul Millsap. Even if Millsap is on the team it' still JT who is starting next to Cousins. I don't see TRob getting starter mins as long as DMC and JT are on the team; and what this team really need is a shot-blocker in the starting lineup, make JT comes off the bench; which leaves little mins for TRob. Bottom line is, the Kings have little use for TRob even if he lives up to the role-playing hustle guy.

The kings would be a better team with Milsap. He can play the 3 and would be a much better backup than Hayes. How much better? Who knows, but he adds hustle, rebounding and a pretty good shooting touch from about 18 ft.

 

[Bricklayer]

The kings would be a better team with Milsap. He can play the 3 and would be a much better backup than Hayes. How much better? Who knows, but he adds hustle, rebounding and a pretty good shooting touch from about 18 ft.

Doubt it would work. Milsap's a good player, but he's about the worst fit you could find next to Cousins, which yes, made the TRob pick a mistake form the start. And just in general this team is heavily heavily over prescribed for shots as it is. Every roleplayer who actually plays better without the ball is like gold. Every extra offensive mouth to feed just more poison. Could Milsap be a better third big than Hayes/Trob? Sure. I mean, it doesn't take much. But like TRob himself, or Hickson last year, non-would be franchise center type bigs who need shots are just in an awful quandry on a team full of undersized chuckers. Each added offensive player is liek snad in the gears around here bringing us one step closer to complete passing lockup.

And P.S. as a 3 the problem is that as with Johnson, we need a spacer there.

 

[Npliam]

Doubt it would work. Milsap's a good player, but he's about the worst fit you could find next to Cousins, which yes, made the TRob pick a mistake form the start. And just in general this team is heavily heavily over prescribed for shots as it is. Every roleplayer who actually plays better without the ball is like gold. Every extra offensive mouth to feed just more poison. Could Milsap be a better third big than Hayes/Trob? Sure. I mean, it doesn't take much. But like TRob himself, or Hickson last year, non-would be franchise center type bigs who need shots are just in an awful quandry on a team full of undersized chuckers. Each added offensive player is liek snad in the gears around here bringing us one step closer to complete passing lockup.

And P.S. as a 3 the problem is that as with Johnson, we need a spacer there.

It wouldn't be ideal bit it would be much better than what the kings have now. Milsap knows how to play winning basketball.

 

[funkykingston]

Would that be termed "panicking into error"?

That still doesn't excuse Drummond, who obviously would have filled in for JT, and much better as it turned out. But Lillard, being an undersized sweet shooter, was obviously going to have a better chance to catch our particular "braintrust"'s eye.

Amick was stating (and then apparently retracting as I recall) that Drummond was off the Kings draft board days before the draft. I have to think that was indeed the case and I think the teams youth and collective immaturity in general and the Kings experience with Cousins and Whiteside in particular were the reasons.

Now, Drummond's purported issues were not on the level of Whitesides but both guys have a freaky combination of length/size and athleticism and a criticism for their motor and immaturity. Combine that with already struggling with DMC's moods and issues and I just think the Kings realized they didn't have the structure or ability to manage another project. And quite honestly I think Petrie has been focused on immediate improvement the last couple years which has backfired on him greatly.

If Amick is right then the FO is even more idiotic than I thought. As you've said, they could have signed someone like Reggie Evans (or some other cheap vet) as an adequate cover if JT doesn't sign. Not to mention, we all knew TRob is not exactly the perfect fit next to Cousins. If they had wanted a JT replacement, Henson or Drummond made more sense. Hell, they could have traded the pick for a more known quality big man. Who else would use a #5 pick to pluck a role-player hole?

Yes, in retropect it looks like the Kings passed on a star for a hustle player as insurance for JT leaving. But rewind to June and how many people really thought Lillard would be this good or Robinson this bad? Robinson was being compared to everyone from Patrick Peterson to Paul Millsap to Al Horford while Lillard was being compared to Jay Williams, Jeff Teague or Russell Westbrook. At the time I have to believe that the Kings front office liked both players and the potential loss of their starting PF influenced them to take Robinson. Honestly I can't fault them for taking Robinson over Lillard because I had never seen DL play and offensive minded PGs from small schools always scare me and Robinson (although clearly not an ideal fit) seemed like a safe choice who would provide rebounding, athleticism and toughness.

You can go back to the old draft threads and see that my ideal scenario was (1) drafting Drummond at #5 and trading for a late first to grab Jeff Taylor (2) drafting MKG or (3) making a deal with the Rockets for Lowry and picks, with Henson being a guy I liked as a fit next to Cousins.

But MKG was gone, Petrie rarely moves around in the draft, and Drummond was out of the running likely because of the reasons I listed above.

 

[hrdboild]

You can go back to the old draft threads and see that my ideal scenario was (1) drafting Drummond at #5 and trading for a late first to grab Jeff Taylor (2) drafting MKG or (3) making a deal with the Rockets for Lowry and picks, with Henson being a guy I liked as a fit next to Cousins.

But MKG was gone, Petrie rarely moves around in the draft, and Drummond was out of the running likely because of the reasons I listed above.

That's more or less where I was at as well. I liked Drummond or Barnes as upside picks, MKG would have been ideal but he was off the board, and after that I would have traded for Lowry and targeted Moe Harkless with the mid-round pick. Taking Robinson wasn't really on my radar because I didn't think he was a very good fit next to Cousins, but I wasn't really upset about the pick either, just indifferent. If we'd brought in a free agent SF the off-season still could have been salvaged, but instead we kept Outlaw and Salmons who have been moderately better than last season (not that the bar was set very high).

But anyway, I think it's still way premature to start picking apart Petrie for Robinson's lack of production. Certainly we can all question whether other guys would have been a better fit, but we don't know that Drummond and Lillard wouldn't be experiencing the same kinds of problems trying to fit in with this team that Robinson is. Not everyone has success right away. Even though I would have preferred the scenarios listed above, I'm still confident that what we're seeing from Robinson right now is not all that he has to offer in the NBA.

 

[Hadlowe]

The problem is that this team does not need a Paul Millsap. Even if Millsap is on the team it' still JT who is starting next to Cousins. I don't see TRob getting starter mins as long as DMC and JT are on the team; and what this team really need is a shot-blocker in the starting lineup, make JT comes off the bench; which leaves little mins for TRob. Bottom line is, the Kings have little use for TRob even if he lives up to the role-playing hustle guy.

Oh, I don't disagree for a moment. If you want starter value from T-Rob, you tell him to become a small forward in the mold of a Gerald Wallace, but he hasn't shown any of the ballhandling and shooting touch to fill that role. However, a Milsap on the bench is part of what made Darren Williams' Utah an outside title contender for a couple of years at the end of the last decade. You just didn't play Boozer and Milsap together.

The biggest difference is that a Milsap type has trade value, whereas T-Rob right now does not.

 

[mac]

It wouldn't be ideal bit it would be much better than what the kings have now. Milsap knows how to play winning basketball.

I think we're talking about how Milsap's skillset fits, not whether he knows how to play winning basketball. Players can have the same skillsets, but some know how to win and others don't.

 

[Npliam]

That is why I said that it wouldn't be ideal.

 

[Elektrik]

I suspect one reason we didn't pick Drummond is because of his yet to be specified mental issues. That's the last thing we need and especially with the guy playing next to Cuz.

He would fit in nicely then with this team.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Amick was stating (and then apparently retracting as I recall) that Drummond was off the Kings draft board days before the draft. I have to think that was indeed the case and I think the teams youth and collective immaturity in general and the Kings experience with Cousins and Whiteside in particular were the reasons.

Now, Drummond's purported issues were not on the level of Whitesides but both guys have a freaky combination of length/size and athleticism and a criticism for their motor and immaturity. Combine that with already struggling with DMC's moods and issues and I just think the Kings realized they didn't have the structure or ability to manage another project. And quite honestly I think Petrie has been focused on immediate improvement the last couple years which has backfired on him greatly.



Yes, in retropect it looks like the Kings passed on a star for a hustle player as insurance for JT leaving. But rewind to June and how many people really thought Lillard would be this good or Robinson this bad? Robinson was being compared to everyone from Patrick Peterson to Paul Millsap to Al Horford while Lillard was being compared to Jay Williams, Jeff Teague or Russell Westbrook. At the time I have to believe that the Kings front office liked both players and the potential loss of their starting PF influenced them to take Robinson. Honestly I can't fault them for taking Robinson over Lillard because I had never seen DL play and offensive minded PGs from small schools always scare me and Robinson (although clearly not an ideal fit) seemed like a safe choice who would provide rebounding, athleticism and toughness.

You can go back to the old draft threads and see that my ideal scenario was (1) drafting Drummond at #5 and trading for a late first to grab Jeff Taylor (2) drafting MKG or (3) making a deal with the Rockets for Lowry and picks, with Henson being a guy I liked as a fit next to Cousins.

But MKG was gone, Petrie rarely moves around in the draft, and Drummond was out of the running likely because of the reasons I listed above.

that was what I was hoping for us to do. It would have filled out perfectly as both of them are more role players than shot takers. We wouldn't have brooks, IT, Fredette, Thornton, salmons and reke all vying for shots in the backcourt. The team would be more balanced

 

[KingMilz]

trading for a late first to grab Jeff Taylor

Damn I forgot all about Jeff Taylor that would have been a very nice pick up

 

[Glenn]

He would fit in nicely then with this team.

So it seems now but prior to the draft he wasn't putting his heart into playing and that's the last thing we want playing next to Cuz. I'd like to wait a few years before making final judgment. We DID work him out so I don't know what turned the team off.

 

[bajaden]

Would that be termed "panicking into error"?

That still doesn't excuse Drummond, who obviously would have filled in for JT, and much better as it turned out. But Lillard, being an undersized sweet shooter, was obviously going to have a better chance to catch our particular "braintrust"'s eye.

I don't think I'd call Lillard undersized. At least not for a PG. He's a quarter of an inch shy of 6'3", and he also has a 40" vertical. He is an excellent shooter, and while he didn't put up huge assist numbers at Webber St., he was sort of in the same boat as Fredette, where he was asked to carry a lot of the scoring load. As I said before, when I saw him play in summer league, it became apparent that this kid was capable of a lot more than he showed at Webber St. Of course by then, it was too late.

If we were basing everything on how Robinson is playing right now, I could name several players that, at the moment appear to have better futures. Drummond being one of them.

 

[bajaden]

That's more or less where I was at as well. I liked Drummond or Barnes as upside picks, MKG would have been ideal but he was off the board, and after that I would have traded for Lowry and targeted Moe Harkless with the mid-round pick. Taking Robinson wasn't really on my radar because I didn't think he was a very good fit next to Cousins, but I wasn't really upset about the pick either, just indifferent. If we'd brought in a free agent SF the off-season still could have been salvaged, but instead we kept Outlaw and Salmons who have been moderately better than last season (not that the bar was set very high).

But anyway, I think it's still way premature to start picking apart Petrie for Robinson's lack of production. Certainly we can all question whether other guys would have been a better fit, but we don't know that Drummond and Lillard wouldn't be experiencing the same kinds of problems trying to fit in with this team that Robinson is. Not everyone has success right away. Even though I would have preferred the scenarios listed above, I'm still confident that what we're seeing from Robinson right now is not all that he has to offer in the NBA.

I think they should make Robinson watch film of Kenneth Faried, who is shorter than Robinson, but extremely effective. First Robinson needs to learn to play within himself. I think he has a little chip on his shoulder about sliding down to the 5th spot. As a result he's out there trying to do things that are currently beyond his skill level. He could get 6 to 8 pts a game off of offensive rebounds. Last night was a perfect example, when he brought the ball all the way down the floor, and instead of giving the ball up, he tried to go to the basket and got trapped in the key. Fredette actually went in and took the ball out of his hands. If Jimmer hadn't done that, it was a sure turnover.

By the way, I'm still sick that we weren't able to aquire Taylor. I ran into Petrie at summer league and asked him if the Kings had interest in Jeffery Taylor, and he said yes, but they wern't able to work anything out. Now it looks like not being able to work anything out, means the Maloofs weren't willing to spend any money to aquire another pick.

 

[Bricklayer]

I don't think I'd call Lillard undersized. At least not for a PG. He's a quarter of an inch shy of 6'3", and he also has a 40" vertical. He is an excellent shooter, and while he didn't put up huge assist numbers at Webber St., he was sort of in the same boat as Fredette, where he was asked to carry a lot of the scoring load. As I said before, when I saw him play in summer league, it became apparent that this kid was capable of a lot more than he showed at Webber St. Of course by then, it was too late.

If we were basing everything on how Robinson is playing right now, I could name several players that, at the moment appear to have better futures. Drummond being one of them.

No, if Lillard is indeed pure enoguh to run point full time his size obviously is not an issue. In fact for a PG he's got good size. Coming into the draft workouts though he was just another Jimmer or Ronnie Price. Just another small school gunning tweener guard with SG instincts in a PG body.

 

[beb0p]

Oh, I don't disagree for a moment. If you want starter value from T-Rob, you tell him to become a small forward in the mold of a Gerald Wallace, but he hasn't shown any of the ballhandling and shooting touch to fill that role. However, a Milsap on the bench is part of what made Darren Williams' Utah an outside title contender for a couple of years at the end of the last decade. You just didn't play Boozer and Milsap together.

The biggest difference is that a Milsap type has trade value, whereas T-Rob right now does not.

I don't think TRob will ever be as good as Millsap offensively, just don't see it. The rookie has never been a guy who can create his own shots consistently, unlike Millsap who came into the league with a pretty solid offensive game and subsequently expanded on it.

I also don't think he'll ever be a good SF, I think he can play some 3 against the right matchup but his natural position is definitely the 4. I think he will eventually develops into a Haslem type of PF. And that's ok, I guess. I've said since before he was drafted that TRob is a guy who maxes out at 12 and 9 and there's nothing wrong with that. If I have to bet, I put my chips on him being traded within the next two years. Just don't see him fitting in here. Which is why I'm actually not that upset that our #5 pick is rotting on the bench lately.

 

[KingMilz]

If Robinson wants to be 1/2 as good as Milsap he has to change his attitude, I remember watching Milsap in the summer league and some games during the rookie season and the guy was flying up and down the court playing his *** off trying to prove himself. Milsap also when he came in had far more toughness than what I seen of T-Rob.

The way T-Rob is going hes making the Hornets pathetic selection of Austin Rivers at #10 look amazing.

 

[UK_King]

I've only seen Austin Rivers once, ages and ages ago, didn't realise he was struggling badly.

Skip Bayless said he'd be an all star.

 

[KingMilz]

I've only seen Austin Rivers once, ages and ages ago, didn't realise he was struggling badly.

Skip Bayless said he'd be an all star.

He said the same thing about Diop
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...ffrey-jordan-bulls-ron-mercer-dikembe-mutombo

Two or three years from now you'll look back and think: How could Jordan have not taken Diop No. 1? Diop is the one athletic freak in this draft. Diop is the only man alive age 18 or above with the potential to be better than Shaquille O'Neal.

Here was a physically mature man-child with the feet, touch and timing of a young Hakeem Olajuwon. All Diop needs is time.

He was on the money with Eddy Curry

Curry will wind up being your basic weight-fighting NBA journeyman.

and WAY OFF on Tyson Chandler

The slender Chandler is a much more skilled offensive player whose natural position is small forward

 

[UK_King]

I don't take Bayless seriously he's just there to put out outlandish comments to get people to tune into that terrible show with Stephen A Smith.

It's just shouting things about Lebron 24/7. Newsflash, other players exist.

 

[Kingster]

I think they should make Robinson watch film of Kenneth Faried, who is shorter than Robinson, but extremely effective. First Robinson needs to learn to play within himself. I think he has a little chip on his shoulder about sliding down to the 5th spot. As a result he's out there trying to do things that are currently beyond his skill level. He could get 6 to 8 pts a game off of offensive rebounds. Last night was a perfect example, when he brought the ball all the way down the floor, and instead of giving the ball up, he tried to go to the basket and got trapped in the key. Fredette actually went in and took the ball out of his hands. If Jimmer hadn't done that, it was a sure turnover.

By the way, I'm still sick that we weren't able to aquire Taylor. I ran into Petrie at summer league and asked him if the Kings had interest in Jeffery Taylor, and he said yes, but they wern't able to work anything out. Now it looks like not being able to work anything out, means the Maloofs weren't willing to spend any money to aquire another pick.

Couldn't agree more. I was thinking the same thing last night when I watched the Denver-Clipps game. Faried plays with tremendous heart. I thought that T-Robb was going to be that player, but right now he's proving me wrong.

Would you be willing to give up Thornton for Jeffery Taylor?

 

[KingMilz]

Would you be willing to give up Thornton for Jeffery Taylor?

Yes a athletic huge SG/SF known for his defense, finishing at the rim and improving jumpshot yeah, problem is Cats got there own Thorton in Ben Gordon.