piksi
Hall of Famer
obviously but the agony will continue past that point
This isn't working
- Thread starter Rockmeister
- Start date
obviously but the agony will continue past that point
He means no playoffs.
BigWaxer
Starter
In the end... Its the players... Not Muss.
RA had the same troubles last year (actually a worse record if I remember right) before the Ron-Ron honymoon came. That is little spark/honymoon period is over now.
It is not muss. Get us some a real #1, a real PF then bash muss if things don't work out. The type of play out there, especially O is not a muss style offense. I think he is catering to what he has.
RA had the same troubles last year (actually a worse record if I remember right) before the Ron-Ron honymoon came. That is little spark/honymoon period is over now.
It is not muss. Get us some a real #1, a real PF then bash muss if things don't work out. The type of play out there, especially O is not a muss style offense. I think he is catering to what he has.
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
Of course this isn't working, and no one but the most optimistic of hommers thought it would in the first palce. The team has slowly bled tallent since 02. Never so much that at any given point it was obvious to everyone, but with the exception of the Pedja for Artest trade the Kings have faild to upgrade at ANY position including coach. Moreover even if the current roster WERE tallented enough to be contenders and even if coach Muss were a top coach, the change in coacheing virtually gaurnetees at LEAST 1/2 a season of bad play as he figgures out what to do with the players.
The sad thing is that managment actually hoped to limp through one more uninspired season with this team instead of using the off season to position it's self for serious rebuilding this comming off season. I guess it's not to late to have the fire sale but a midseason dump is allways hard to pull off unless you take some real clunkers in the deal.
The pathetic thing is the sudden reaction from 30 watt fans who are NOW crying aobut how bad the team looks. It's like the kid who leaves his ice cream in the sade then crys 2 hours later beceause it melted. The only thing remarkable about the Kings bad play and string of losses is how utterly predictable it was before theseason even started.
Look the team has not real go to guy in offense, rather it has 5 second options. Sure Kevin is burnning it up out there but is he a Garnet, Duncan, Kobe, Wade, Mello, Lebron... type player? No he is the the kind of SECOND option that will KILL teams who have to concentrate the defense on the number one guy. Bibby made a career being Webber's number two and hassince proven conclusivley to all that as a number one option he is lacking. Brad, Reef, Artest are all great guys to use arround a top scoring option but NOT on the same team. Brad is valuable in a passing offense along side a great inside player, Reef was a great number one option on a bad team and still might do well in a standard offense with a top SF wing man as a complement on the other side. Ron is a leader and scoring threat but he is NOT the kind of offensive jugernaut that you wnat as your number one option. Moreover none of these guys are getting better or will get any better, meaning the teams only improvemnt as is will come from Kevin, and maybe Cisco and Price... So we have a bunch of valuable pices and no go to guy... you do the math.
The sad thing is that managment actually hoped to limp through one more uninspired season with this team instead of using the off season to position it's self for serious rebuilding this comming off season. I guess it's not to late to have the fire sale but a midseason dump is allways hard to pull off unless you take some real clunkers in the deal.
The pathetic thing is the sudden reaction from 30 watt fans who are NOW crying aobut how bad the team looks. It's like the kid who leaves his ice cream in the sade then crys 2 hours later beceause it melted. The only thing remarkable about the Kings bad play and string of losses is how utterly predictable it was before theseason even started.
Look the team has not real go to guy in offense, rather it has 5 second options. Sure Kevin is burnning it up out there but is he a Garnet, Duncan, Kobe, Wade, Mello, Lebron... type player? No he is the the kind of SECOND option that will KILL teams who have to concentrate the defense on the number one guy. Bibby made a career being Webber's number two and hassince proven conclusivley to all that as a number one option he is lacking. Brad, Reef, Artest are all great guys to use arround a top scoring option but NOT on the same team. Brad is valuable in a passing offense along side a great inside player, Reef was a great number one option on a bad team and still might do well in a standard offense with a top SF wing man as a complement on the other side. Ron is a leader and scoring threat but he is NOT the kind of offensive jugernaut that you wnat as your number one option. Moreover none of these guys are getting better or will get any better, meaning the teams only improvemnt as is will come from Kevin, and maybe Cisco and Price... So we have a bunch of valuable pices and no go to guy... you do the math.
KINGSFAN-FROM-L.A.
G-League
we would have beaten the suns in the first round last year easily... the lakers and the clips should have beat them and we pretty much controlled the spurs for 4 of the first 5 games of the series...
oh and back on topic, wtf did happen to us???? ahhhhhhhhh man i have $150 riding on this season that we would have a better record than the rockets and the lakers... oh this sucks
DaMan
Starter
I totally agree with every thing you have said espeaitly the part in bold.
GoGoGadget
All-Star
Um... word.
This team will be alright. Any serious offer for Miller will probably be consummated, and Bibby might be moved if we get young talent back. Other than that, Petrie IS positioning this team for an overhaul in the summer. We are going to have some serious cap space and a lottery pick in the best draft since 2003 and is loaded with big men. I think that this summer he uses Bibby's cap space to sign a defending big man and a distributing PG. Neither signing will be impressive when they happen, but the results will be phenomenal. Especially when they are teamed with Artest, Martin, and Oden/Durant/Wright.
Sac.Kings
All-Star
I don't think we will slide so much to the point where we can get Oden/durant/wright. Oden would be a godsend. In his first game back with Ohio state, he swatted 5 shots with his off arm. he couldnt use his right arm since his wrist hurt him because of the surgery.
KP
Starter
Great post ^.
Greenspan 101
G-League
I agree with Napear's comments on 1140 today. The Kings are good if Bibby plays well. People knock Artest for shooting so much, but if everyone keys in on Martin and Bibby is cold, he seems the only guy who is actually decisive about trying to get some offense going. Everyone else just seems tentative with decisions and timid with the ball. Unless Bibby gets back into gear, I think this is going to be the case moving forward. I mean, what else is there?
If Bibby gets back on track, I think this team will start winning.
If Bibby gets back on track, I think this team will start winning.
Roman
Bench
The caveat to this statement is that Bibby dominates the ball, whether he's shooting well or not. So it's pretty much a given that if he plays like garbage we'll look bad and if he hits his shots we'll look good.
It's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Again, it's self-fulfilling. It's not that he's the only guy who is decisive - he's the only guy that will touch the ball.
Haven't you noticed that in Artest's absence that Salmons has really come on. Why? Because our offense is geared towards perimeter players going one on one. So, unless you are out there and getting the ball in your hands, you're just a warm body.
Or if Bibby defers some of his ridiculous transition 3s and covered jumpers to some other players that aren't "outside shooters" we might get better/more effective shots.
Roman
Bench
RA also had the same problems Muss has - he's afraid to go into the post as a viable offensive option. He refused to change his offensive scheme to suit his players and his team's record suffered because of it.
We did the same thing last year that we did this year - we annointed three perimeter players to be the keys to our team. Peja, Bibby and Miller. When it didn't work, we blamed Peja for not hitting shots --- but he wasn't getting the ball in positions he's good at scoring from.
Muss is catering his offense to his players? I highly doubt that.
We don't even run an offense for the most part, so if that's what you mean then I agree.
Other than that, our "strength" is plain vanilla. It's inside scoring. That's the area we have players who can create from. We've got a 20PPG inside threat in SAR. We've got a bull named Artest who is basically a mismatch any time he's down there. It may be boring, but it's what we're strong at. Yet we avoid it like it's cancerous.
Our "outside shooting" is similar to last year. We've got a streaky Mike Bibby (except he's hurt). To get him good shots we need to basically let him dominate the ball and set high pick after high pick. We've got a dead-eye shooter like Peja was in Martin, but just like Peja ... he's not the best at creating for himself. He shoots best when he gets the ball on kick outs. We've got Brad Miller, who can bury the outside shot but can be shut down by token coverage.
We also don't have players that are adept at creating for others from the perimeter, which makes penetration passing much tougher and less effective. Most of our players penetrate to get their shot.
As for not having a #1 option, a lot of that is coaching. Do we have a KG, Kobe, Shaq? No. But most teams don't. We've got decent enough players to have roles assigned and an identity. But, the coach hasn't assigned it. He's letting the players dictate their own roles and everyone is on a different page.
That's a coaching problem, by my count.
most_casual_observer
G-League
agreed
So I think it boils down to self esteem and attitude. If these guys can get past the learning curve and frustration they'll be OK. Champs? Who knows? But if ya can't say it, ya can't do it. That's why I treasure guys like Ron Artest. Do or die in true warrior fashion.
So I think it boils down to self esteem and attitude. If these guys can get past the learning curve and frustration they'll be OK. Champs? Who knows? But if ya can't say it, ya can't do it. That's why I treasure guys like Ron Artest. Do or die in true warrior fashion.
