The Thabeet Gambit (split from game thread)

[Bricklayer]

With our pick (1-5) we still can get a good guy. Unfortunately, the best guys there are bigs and SGs and we have Hawes, Thompson and Martin.

this belongs in personnel, but I am wondering about the Thabeet gambit. Rubio if we can get #1 or trade for #1 -- and hope he is the floor general fo the future. But if we slip a bit, taking the gambit on a 7'3" mega shotblocker is attractive to me. Make him the third big along with Spencer and Jason and have a huge frontline. Spencer can shift to PF when he comes in, or Jason can stay. Big defensive game changer as a 3rd big, while the other guys do all the finesse work. Maybe. Have to see how he develops. But rather than jsut taking a shooting guard because they are there, or another offensive soft big becuase they are there, maybe target a need with a bog unique presence that could change the way teams think about attacking us.

 

[BritishColumbia]

this belongs in personnel, but I am wondering about the Thabeet gambit. Rubio if we can get #1 or trade for #1 -- and hope he is the floor general fo the future. But if we slip a bit, taking the gambit on a 7'3" mega shotblocker is attractive to me. Make him the #3 big along with Spencer and Jason nd have a huge frontline. Spencer can shift to PF when he comes along, or Jason can stay. Big defensive game changer as a 3rd big, while the other guys do all the finesse work. Maybe. Have to see how he develops. But rather than jsut taking a shooting guard because they are there, or another offensive soft big becuase they are there, maybe target a need with a bog unique presence that could change the way teams think about attacking us.

This is the biggest challenge - to draft the best guy or the best guy for current need. I personally like the first option but it is a tough decision.

 

[gunks]

Could be interesting...Thabeet would definately be one to trade down to if we end up with a top 3. Which could be fine if we get a good player in the pick swap. Griffin and Mullins are the two bigs up there in the draft class...And I have to agree with Brick, I dont really want another offensively minded softie frontcourt player (unless we trade one of ours).

Rubio would be great, he's so young that he'd probably be coming off the bench for a few seasons though. DeRozen is apparently the one everyone is talking about being the next big thing. He plays SG, but he's big...So if we got him he could maybe play the 3 alongside Martin. Or back him up. Or if we're really lucky make him expendable (not that I have anything against Kevin).




...Wow. You know your team had a bad night if the discussion for the 4th game of the season is about how to use our high lotto pick.

 

[nbrans]

this belongs in personnel, but I am wondering about the Thabeet gambit. Rubio if we can get #1 or trade for #1 -- and hope he is the floor general fo the future. But if we slip a bit, taking the gambit on a 7'3" mega shotblocker is attractive to me. Make him the #3 big along with Spencer and Jason nd have a huge frontline. Spencer can shift to PF when he comes along, or Jason can stay. Big defensive game changer as a 3rd big, while the other guys do all the finesse work. Maybe. Have to see how he develops. But rather than jsut taking a shooting guard because they are there, or another offensive soft big becuase they are there, maybe target a need with a bog unique presence that could change the way teams think about attacking us.

I've always been a Thabeet fan. He is sorely underutilized at UConn, but I've never seen someone his size who is so fluid and has so much potential. I think he's going to really thrive in the NBA.

 

[Spike]

I'm withholding on Thabeet until I see how he plays vs. the Big East this year. He seems incomplete to me, and a lot of his shot-blocking employed the use of techniques that will get him flagged in the NBA (off-arm holding, etc.) He does have the "potential" to be someone big - but I see him as mostly a defender - the complete opposite of what we have with Hawes, which I suppose would make an interesting pick, but not at the top 3.
I would go with need if it were a top 3, and right now that need is a PG. Is it Rubio? I dunno, especially so young. I'll have to keep an eye on Jennings, for sure.

 

[Gary]

Thabeet isn't that great guys... The only reason he has been mentioned int he top players is because of his size, and shot blocking abilities. He was constantly pushed around by smaller players, and his overall D wasn't anything spectacular.

I will hold out until I see if he has improved this year, but I don't think I will hold my breath. He will probably get off to a fast start, but UCONN has young talent that might actually surpass him in ability.

 

[NME]

The problem I've heard with Thabeet is that when he isn't blocking shots, he isn't that great of an individual defender......or rebounder......or scorer. It'll be interesting to see how/if he develops this year. It would be really interesting to see a Thabeet/Hawes/Thompson front line at some point. Especially, if there's ever an NBA apple-pickin' competition.

 

[Gary]

Thabeet isn't a Petrie type pick either..

Only way I see us getting him is if we use that 2nd pick we got from Houston which i don't see Thabeet falling that far anyway.

 

[nbrans]

The problem I've heard with Thabeet is that when he isn't blocking shots, he isn't that great of an individual defender......or rebounder......or scorer. It'll be interesting to see how/if he develops this year. It would be really interesting to see a Thabeet/Hawes/Thompson front line at some point. Especially, if there's ever an NBA apple-pickin' competition.

My feeling about this, having watched him play against several different teams, is that he is a really good shotblocker but struggles to guard quick college "centers" who are 6'8" - 6'9". Which, I mean, if you put any seven footer on a 6'8" guy they're going to struggle.

He's not a great rebounder, although I think he's pretty fluid in the post -- they just never get him the ball. Calhoun is all about recruiting, not so much about getting the best out of his players. I really think that if you put Thabeet up against guys his own size he'd thrive.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

Im saying screw it lets just take Jennings or Rubio if they are there.. Its lookin like beno isnt going to cut it as a starting point guard. He'd be a great backup.

 

[Bricklayer]

Jennings is going to be a great x-factor with the choice he made, and probably a risk not worth taking if you get a very high pick. Disaster = coming out of a Top 3 empty handed. rubio I think would be an obvious #1 or Top 3 for us if he slipped.

HOWEVER, if we do not get a Top 3, then there is no Rubio, and may be no Jennings. That is when the Thabeet Gambit comes into possible play. When you've got your finesse bigs, now you need that third guy to play the Pollard role -- be a defensive force that the finessers are not. Would like to see Thabeet become a better rebounder, and he should be impossible to score on in the post. If he can do those two things, combined with the gamechanging shotblocking doominance, then there is the gambit. Don't need offense. Don't need passing. Don't need shooting. Need a defensive wall to come in and do all those things the finesse guys can't. If Thabeet can be that guy, he would be a unique presence to change oru defensive tone and give us a match up with the Howards, Odens and Yao of the league as we try to get back to mattering again.

 

[hrdboild]

I'm conflicted on Thabeet as well. On the one hand you've got an elite shotblocker who could anchor the defense for the next 10 years. On the other hand, you've got a major project on offense who's going to take years to reach consistent double-digit scoring. Given his limitations, is he going to be on the floor enough to make the impact you want on defense? I don't know, I'm still undecided. If he continues to improve this year I could be convinced.

As for the other guys, I don't knowing anything about BJ Mullens yet. Blake Griffin looks like the kind of sure thing you can't pass up, a big guy with real power in the paint and aggressive rebounding. I'm not totally sold on Rubio as a star in the NBA, but at the least he's an experienced point guard with great play making instincts. DeRozan doesn't really fit our roster. I'll get to watch him a lot this year though. If he's a sure-thing All-Star I think you have to draft him anyway. He could probably start at SF like Pierce. I saw James Harden in person at 'SC last year and I don't get what the big deal is. Davon Jefferson looked like the better prospect and he didn't even get drafted. But that was just one game, so maybe I missed something. Actually the guy I've been eying for the Kings lately is LA-native Brandon Jennings with his flashy passing and ball handling skills. (Perhaps foolishly I'll admit, but I've got a soft spot for local guys and players who are fun to watch) I'm curious how his experiment in the Italian League will work out. (On a related side not, isn't that where Kobe threatened to play if the Nets drafted him back in 96? Anyone remember?)

 

[SacTownKid]

Thabeet is a pretty decent prospect, very rarely is there a guy that size with that kind of foot speed. Almost like a 7'3" version of Jason Thompson. But, he is not a #1 kind of talent.

Now it all depends on who declares of course and how they look in college but this could be a draft full of star to superstar level players. Names to remember are Jrue Holiday, Tyreke Evans, Greg Monroe, Demar DeRozan, Ed Davis, and Al-Farouq Aminu. Some maybe don't fill the biggest need but at least two of those players will be outright star to superstar players.

 

[Bricklayer]

I'm conflicted on Thabeet as well. On the one hand you've got an elite shotblocker who could anchor the defense for the next 10 years. On the other hand, you've got a major project on offense who's going to take years to reach consistent double-digit scoring. Given his limitations, is he going to be on the floor enough to make the impact you want on defense? I don't know, I'm still undecided. If he continues to improve this year I could be convinced.

7'0" Hawes 34min
6'11" Thompson 36min
7'3" Thabeet 26min

that would be the theory.

starters: Hawes/Thompson 22min
1st sub: Thabeet/Thompson 14min
2nd sub: Thabeet/Hawes 12min

In such a situation Thabeet doesn't have to be more than maybe 6pts 8rebs 2.5blks to change the whole tenor of our frontline. The whole "gambit" would be intentionally drafting a superb but limited roleplayer who just so happens to patch exactly those areas where we suck rather than taking just another generically "good" player.

I don't consider it a #1 pick gambit. But if we were to end up at #4 or #5....

 

[hrdboild]

I see the case for Thabeet, go for a player with a legitimate skill and at the least you know what you're getting. Particularly if that skill happens to be our most glaring weakness (although the PG situation has maybe surpassed it this season). And we will need someone to match up with Oden/Howard/Duncan/Yao or whoever else is likely to destroy us in the playoffs. I would think, though, if you're drafting an elite shot blocker to be your game-changing defensive presence, you would want him playing more than 26 min per game. That's enough to collect a few blocks, but what about when the playoffs come around and every possession matters? Who gets to play in crunch time? You need stops so you'd want to put your elite front line defender in there, but if the defense can sag off him and he can't exploit it, that makes it harder to score on the offensive end. And I should probably also mention that so far Thabeet looks good rotating to deny the paint to perimeter players but his post defense against big guys isn't even elite at a college level when he's the biggest guy out there. Is he really going to be able to hold his position with Oden or Howard backing him down?

Aside from all that, the biggest problem I see, and it's a common one around here, is that we still run the risk of employing too many good players and not enough great ones. We desperately need a legitimate starter with our lottery pick this year. Preferably of the franchise-player type. I don't think we can count on acquiring one through free agency.

 

[bajaden]

Its a little early to be starting a Thabeet thread. Considering how he played last year, there's nothing to get excited about other than his size. I'm willing to give his the benifit of the doubt and see how much he's improved this year.

Last year he did block a lot of shots, but most of them were weakside blocks and not man on man blocks. He was lost on offense. There was a reason they didn't throw him the ball. Because unless he was under the basket, he didn't know what to do with it. He has a lot of improving to do before I would waste a high first round pick on him.

 

[NME]

Why does it have to be a gambit? Why not try a ploy, or if we're feeling frisky, even a ruse?

 

[Bricklayer]

Last year he did block a lot of shots, but most of them were weakside blocks and not man on man blocks.

That's a GOOD thing though.

If a guy is just blocking his own man's shot, he isn't helping everybody else on defense. Its just a miss by his own guy. If a guy is blocking weakside shots then he becomes a dominant defensive figure, and makes your entire lineup better on defense. Everybody on the other team has to watch out for him, your perimeter guys can get up on their men knowing they have a goalie behind them if they get beat (heck as often as Kevin and Beno get burned he might average 5blks/gm). Your interior double teams get huge and menacing. Etc.

In any case, drafting in the lottery again I would love to get a star. prefereably PG since that might be the hole now. But its not a star draft, and many of the best players are duplicate of what we already have. If Thabeet develops this year, a big IF, but if he does, he's kind of a "star" in his own right. Or at least a unique presence that can have that impact on the way your team is perceived.

 

[Spike]

Why does it have to be a gambit? Why not try a ploy, or if we're feeling frisky, even a ruse?

Because only one is a comic book character:

 

[SacKings7]

That's a GOOD thing though.

If a guy is just blockinghis own man's shot, he isn't helping everybody else on defense. Its just a miss by his own guy. If a guy is blocking weakside shots then he becomes a dominant defensive figure, and makes your entire lineup better on defense. Everyobody on the other team has to watch out for him, your perimeter guys can get up on their men knowing they have a goalie behind them if they get beat (heck as often as Kevin and Beno get burned he might average 5blks/gm). Your interior double teams get huge and menacing. Etc.

In any case, drafting in the lottery again I would love to get a star. prefereably PG since that might be the hole now. But its not a star draft, and many of the best players are duplicate of what we already have. If Thabeet develops this year, a big IF, but if he does, he's kind of a "star" in his own right. Or at least a unique presence that can have that impact on the way your team is perceived.

yeah I never understood why people say that weakside shot blockers aren't a good thing. You pretty much covered everything I'd like to say on that subject

 

[SacKings7]

Because only one is a comic book character:

Awesome.

 

[bajaden]

That's a GOOD thing though.

If a guy is just blocking his own man's shot, he isn't helping everybody else on defense. Its just a miss by his own guy. If a guy is blocking weakside shots then he becomes a dominant defensive figure, and makes your entire lineup better on defense. Everybody on the other team has to watch out for him, your perimeter guys can get up on their men knowing they have a goalie behind them if they get beat (heck as often as Kevin and Beno get burned he might average 5blks/gm). Your interior double teams get huge and menacing. Etc.

In any case, drafting in the lottery again I would love to get a star. prefereably PG since that might be the hole now. But its not a star draft, and many of the best players are duplicate of what we already have. If Thabeet develops this year, a big IF, but if he does, he's kind of a "star" in his own right. Or at least a unique presence that can have that impact on the way your team is perceived.

Well I would love it if Thabeet really came into his own this year. What I was trying to say about the weakside defense, was that he wasn't a very good man on man defender. I will grant you that most of the players he was guarding were smaller and quicker than him. He's also hindered by not have much lateral quickness. But neither did Mutumbo and he did OK.

I'm also leaning toward a pt guard. Hey, if Thabeet doesn't play that well we may be able to get him with our second first round pick.

 

[SacKings7]

Well I would love it if Thabeet really came into his own this year. What I was trying to say about the weakside defense, was that he wasn't a very good man on man defender. I will grant you that most of the players he was guarding were smaller and quicker than him. He's also hindered by not have much lateral quickness. But neither did Mutumbo and he did OK.

I'm also leaning toward a pt guard. Hey, if Thabeet doesn't play that well we may be able to get him with our second first round pick.

If he doesn't play well, why would we want him?

 

[Vlade4GM]

glorified shotblocker. We need best available non-sg/sf player.

 

[bajaden]

If he doesn't play well, why would we want him?

I'm trying to be a pacifist. Whats the matter with throwing the big dog a bone?

 

[BawLa]

When I brought up Thabeet last year, I got my head chewed off. So I held my peace. But the whole time I've had this guy in my mind. He would compliment our frontcourt perfectly. I'm not ignorant, I see his limitations. But what a specimen.

Everyone talks about how he is so inept offensively, but if he can make any progress this year, then he will be a consensus top 3 pick.

Not to mention the fact that we have Shareef as a big coach. He would be perfect to teach Thabeet some footwork and post moves.


Hawes-Thompson-Thabeet would be a solid, well-rounded frontcourt moving forward. All we would be missing is a high-assist/defensive PG.