hrdboild said:Look, you disagree with me that's one thing. I just don't see why you need to 'stick it to me' as well. I'm just giving my opinion and responding to other people's criticism.
You think we need a superstar to win a championship. Fine. We should tank the season and hope for a lucky draft pick then.
I saw this team destroy Detroit not that long ago. Why? Because five guys passing and cutting and hitting open shots can't be defended. If you can stop the pick and role and defend the fast break, you can stop Phoenix. As for San Antonio, look at the guys on the team who are actually playing. I don't care about the rookies sitting at the end of their bench. Bowen and Barry are 34. They have three star players surrounded by role players. What do you know, exactly what we have. They win because they know how to play together. That's all. It's the same reason the USA Olympic team lost. I think if you get the right personnel together, they can win. Phoenix was terrible last year. They brought in Quentin Richardson and Steve Nash and suddenly they've got the best record in the league. We don't have to build from the ground up, you just have to find the right guys to complement what we already have. That's what I think anyway.
Mr. S£im Citrus said:. For example, if we'd started last season with the roster we ended the season with, and Golden State had started the season with the roster that they ended the season with, then they would have been then only team from California to qualify for the playoffs. The Warriors, Jazz and Timberwolves are probably all one key acquisition/reasonably injury-free run from bumping us and the Grizzlies both out of the playoffs. The Kings are going to have to make way more than one key move to keep us in the thick of things.
Look, I didn't "stick it to you." If anyone "stuck it" to you, it was Mad D; what I did was nothing more than give him a little affirmation.hrdboild said:Look, you disagree with me that's one thing. I just don't see why you need to 'stick it to me' as well...
Uhm, actually, you essentially said that the Heat were overrated because all they had were Wade, O'Neal and a bunch of roleplayers. I did not say that we needed a superstar to win a championship; I did not even speak as to whether or not that formula applies to the Kings. All I said was basically that the argument that you used against the Heat has not been historically proven in actual fact.hrdboild said:... You think we need a superstar to win a championship. Fine. We should tank the season and hope for a lucky draft pick then...
You saw who do what when?hrdboild said:... I saw this team destroy Detroit not that long ago...
The last time I checked, there are a whole two teams that can do that; and Sacramento is not one of them.hrdboild said:... If you can stop the pick and role and defend the fast break, you can stop Phoenix...
Saying that the players that I named are sitting at the end of the bench implies that they haven't played in every playoff game this post-season; it's not like San Antonio's been blowing teams out, and they only get to play in garbage time. These guys have been playing, and they will get more playing time as they progress. Remember, if Devin Brown hadn't been injured, he'd be getting Brent Barry's minutes, and not the other way around.hrdboild said:... As for San Antonio, look at the guys on the team who are actually playing. I don't care about the rookies sitting at the end of their bench. Bowen and Barry are 34.
Uhh... no. They have one superstar and two stars. Duncan + Ginobili + Parker =/= Bibby + Stojakovic + Miller, and if you think otherwise, you are misinformed.hrdboild said:They have three star players surrounded by role players. What do you know, exactly what we have. They win because they know how to play together.
Are you saying that you think that the USA Men's Basketball team because they had too many roleplayers?hrdboild said:... That's all. It's the same reason the USA Olympic team lost...
One of the best shooters, yes. One year as a canidate doesn't makes you elite.hrdboild said:Peja Stojakovic isn't amongst the league's elite? He was an MVP candidate last year. The second leading scorer.
How many good centers do we have in the league today?hrdboild said:Brad Miller is widely considered to be a top 5 center which is pretty elite.
Mr. S£im Citrus said:.
Uhh... no. They have one superstar and two stars. Duncan + Ginobili + Parker =/= Bibby + Stojakovic + Miller, and if you think otherwise, you are misinformed.
No. Not only no, but hell no.hrdboild said:Peja Stojakovic isn't amongst the league's elite?
Mr. S£im Citrus said:Look, I didn't "stick it to you." If anyone "stuck it" to you, it was Mad D; what I did was nothing more than give him a little affirmation.
I didn't say overrated, I said beatable. By a team with 9 very good players who play as a team.Mr. S£im Citrus said:Uhm, actually, you essentially said that the Heat were overrated because all they had were Wade, O'Neal and a bunch of roleplayers. I did not say that we needed a superstar to win a championship; I did not even speak as to whether or not that formula applies to the Kings. All I said was basically that the argument that you used against the Heat has not been historically proven in actual fact.
Here's the boxscore. I don't get to watch many Kings games anymore because I live in LA now, but I saw this one because it was on national television. Apparently you don't watch Kings basketball.Mr. S£im Citrus said:You saw who do what when?
And never can be for the end of all time because they 'suck' too much right?Mr. S£im Citrus said:The last time I checked, there are a whole two teams that can do that; and Sacramento is not one of them.
Mr. S£im Citrus said:Saying that the players that I named are sitting at the end of the bench implies that they haven't played in every playoff game this post-season; it's not like San Antonio's been blowing teams out, and they only get to play in garbage time. These guys have been playing, and they will get more playing time as they progress. Remember, if Devin Brown hadn't been injured, he'd be getting Brent Barry's minutes, and not the other way around.
I'm not sure what exactly =/= is supposed to mean, but assuming it means greater than, I don't see that as an accepted fact. Duncan is a superstar, granted. But Parker is not better than Bibby. And Ginobli is not better than Stojakovic. Maybe if you add them all up San Antonio comes out ahead due to the talent of Duncan but I don't think it's as hugely one-sided as you imply it to be.Mr. S£im Citrus said:Uhh... no. They have one superstar and two stars. Duncan + Ginobili + Parker =/= Bibby + Stojakovic + Miller, and if you think otherwise, you are misinformed.
Mr. S£im Citrus said:Are you saying that you think that the USA Men's Basketball team [lost] because they had too many roleplayers? --[my addition]
It doesn't make you elite perhaps, but if you are an elite shooter (top 5 in the world is pretty much the definition of elite) and furthermore you've spent a full NBA season as the number two scorer in the league and the leading scorer on a team with one of the two best records in the league (which was true until the Webber return and the Miller injury), well then I think in that case you at least deserve consideration as an elite player. It's arguable yes, but not unheard of.Mad D said:One of the best shooters, yes. One year as a canidate doesn't makes you elite.
Not very many. They're rare - like gold. Or platinum. And we have one of them.Mad D said:How many good centers do we have in the league today?
hrdboild said:.
Here's the boxscore. I don't get to watch many Kings games anymore because I live in LA now, but I saw this one because it was on national television. Apparently you don't watch Kings basketball.
yes, and I suspose you happened to miss the rematch where they trounced us in return?hrdboild said:I wasn't making an excuse. I was saying I live in LA (and I don't even have cable by the way so I'm not paying some ridiculous sum for league pass) and still I was able to witness this miraculous trouncing of the league champs which Slim apparently doesn't believe ever happened. And without Miller no less!
hrdboild said:. So that's why I think you can build a championship team around the guys we have now by adding guys who can pass and shoot and play defense.
You say that as if there are a lot of those hanging around.hrdboild said:I didn't say overrated, I said beatable. By a team with 9 very good players who play as a team.
Apparently I've been deployed to the Gulf since January. I watched all eighty-two games last season, and the first twenty-five games this season. I probably watch more basketball in general, and more Kings basketball in particular, than most people... when I'm actually on land.hrdboild said:... Here's the boxscore. I don't get to watch many Kings games anymore because I live in LA now, but I saw this one because it was on national television. Apparently you don't watch Kings basketball...
I'm sure that it'll happen some time between now and the "end of all time," but without a major personnel overhaul, it won't be happening any time soon.hrdboild said:... And never can be for the end of all time because they 'suck' too much right?
The point, as I stated before, is that the Spurs aren't built around their older players; there are literally dozens of players in the league that can do what their old guys do, and when they are no longer able to contribute, the Spurs will go out and acquire them; and they'll be just as good as they are now.hrdboild said:... Well they still don't have anyone averaging more than 10 points for them who isn't Duncan, Parker, Ginobli, or an over the hill role-player. And of the guys you mentioned, only Devin Brown averaged more than 15 minutes a game for them...
As I stated in another thread, =/= is the closest that I can approximate the mathematical symbol which means "is not equal to."hrdboild said:... I'm not sure what exactly =/= is supposed to mean...
That's your prerogative... but it is. In fact, not only is Duncan + Ginobili + Parker > Bibby + Stojakovic + Miller, but Duncan is better than any two of those three by himself.hrdboild said:... but assuming it means greater than, I don't see that as an accepted fact.
VF21 said:I so do NOT want to suck again. Being a fan of a team that sucks... well, sucks.
SacTownKid said:Look I thought the idea was to "re-build" around Bibby, Peja, and Miller??? Losing Songaila, Mobley, Webber, etc. seems to fit with this idea. Nothing that has happened already is something Petrie wasn't already prepared for I do believe.
Entity said:I love those 3 guys but rebuilding around them is a bad idea they are all good #2 option guys on any team. But all 3 have great weaknesses we have to get that #1 guy in here even if it means giving up 1 or 2 of those 3.
T[MaC] said:Our so called "core" is not the core of a championship or even a good team, just a mediocre one. .
patrick204 said:are experienced, skillful players who make a great core to build around. If we just tanked up on athletic 7 foot rookies and speedy energetic SG's, we could win 50 games with this core.
And if just one of the rookies surprised people, ten so would the Kings.
SacTownKid said:Wow. I have to say I disagree totally. I at least think Peja, Bibby, and Miller should be given the chance to get it done. I think the Sacramento Kings next season are going to surprise a lot of people, most of whom are Kings fans.
If the Kings go out and get some quality role players that will help in the areas this team needs help in I think they will contend.
Bottom line is I think we will know by the mid-season trade deadline what the future of the Kings will be. If the Kings are blowing it big time, I expect most everyone to be gone for expiring deals.
Bricklayer said:You're right, we could win 50 with this "core". And that's it. And whoopee. The only way we win MORE than 50 is by making these guys NOT the core -- by bringing in players as good or better than they are in different areas of the game. They are all second fiddles. Not really a core at all in some ways, but rather they THEMSELVES were already the players you SURROUNDED the old core with. Merely watching the old core bleed away doesn't suddenly make our peripheral players a "core". They are what they have always been. Limited system players made effective by the old true core. They basically excel at one thing -- shooting. Now you somehow find a way to rebuild the true core, these guys are a very good supporting cast (indeed limited shooters are classic supporting cast players). But they're not remotely an elite core in and of themselves.