Summer League Game 1 Quickie Grades

Vlade4GM said:
No, of course I like him and I'm very glad we drafted him, but I'm not going to gloss over the things that concern me about his game regardless of how lucky we were to get him. I worry about whether he is going to try to push his way out to the perimeter and that's not his game regardless of how much he would like to prove to everyone that he's more than just a low post player. I know it's been repeated here many times, but he did have the nerve to say he wanted to be a SG when he showed up at Kentucky. I don't like the showboating, he can save that stuff for all-star weekend.
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You're already antagonizing him? It's called attitude, toughness, and I like it. Go argue for a straight up Cousins-Hawes trade if you place a premium on proper manners.
 
SacTownGrantFan said:
You're already antagonizing him? It's called attitude, toughness, and I like it. Go argue for a straight up Cousins-Hawes trade if you place a premium on proper manners.
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How am I antagonizing him?

Apparently you have no idea what I'm talking about because it has nothing to do with attitude or toughness. Dribbling between his legs 15-20 feet out and taking long jumpers is not his strength and I suspect it's him just trying to show off how "versatile" he is I.E. showboating.
 
Eh, a little early to worry about him forming bad habits. Summer league is a good avenue for him to show what he can do, and he showed a little of everything(except defense.) The coaches will figure out what the real gameplan for him is in the preseason.
 
Vlade4GM said:
I know it's been repeated here many times, but he did have the nerve to say he wanted to be a SG when he showed up at Kentucky. I don't like the showboating, he can save that stuff for all-star weekend.
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And you think Cousins was serious when he said that?

Come on now. I don't think Cousins is that stupid. It was probably a joke for coach Cal to let him know he is more than just a BIG body in basketball.
 
Vlade4GM said:
Apparently you have no idea what I'm talking about because it has nothing to do with attitude or toughness. Dribbling between his legs 15-20 feet out and taking long jumpers is not his strength and I suspect it's him just trying to show off how "versatile" he is I.E. showboating.
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I kind of agree with you on this one. But hey, this is just summer league. IMO, it was nice of him to showboat his skills to let fans know he is more than just the "typical" CENTER some of us wants him to be.

Now, I am more than convinced this kid can play PF if the need arises. He showed in some instances he could be a lot quicker than what everyone thinks he could be.
 
Vlade4GM said:
How am I antagonizing him?

Apparently you have no idea what I'm talking about because it has nothing to do with attitude or toughness. Dribbling between his legs 15-20 feet out and taking long jumpers is not his strength and I suspect it's him just trying to show off how "versatile" he is I.E. showboating.
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I think you're antagonizing Cousins by already characterizing him as a kind of punk with bad intentions. It seems like you're being overly critical, as early as the first game of summer league.
 
If you did watch the game then you know that Elie was on all his guys. So the coaches will sort out what is not wanted out of him. Don't put too much importance on one summer league game for a guy trying to silence some critics. He's a bit pumped up now and trying to do too much. Let it play out and see how he progresses.

And just to remind some people. If a center is versatile enough to play on the block or shoot from the perimeter, then that is a good thing. Remember that DMC hit a higher percentage of shots than any other player during workouts. He has some perimeter game. I seem to recall a very good center the Kings used to have that could shoot, pass well and play in the post. We might just have a more talented version of that scruffy faced guy who rebounds better and has a bit of attitude thrown in too.
 
Everybody is talking about Whiteside and Cousins but I really like what I saw out of Ryan Thompson. I noticed he didn't play well for Boston much at all so I wasn't that excited about seeing him out there but he did surprise. I liked his slashing ability and his shot seemed nice, he could also handle the rock well. I hope he keeps it up as I would love for him to get a good shot on making the team and doing the NBA thing with his big bro.
 
Vlade4GM said:
How am I antagonizing him?

Apparently you have no idea what I'm talking about because it has nothing to do with attitude or toughness. Dribbling between his legs 15-20 feet out and taking long jumpers is not his strength and I suspect it's him just trying to show off how "versatile" he is I.E. showboating.
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I agree. He was showboating, trying to be Mr Superskill. However, for better or worse, we were up 20-25 at the time and I think he was a little tired which might have made him a little less enthusiastic to bang. I thought in the first half he was making smart fundamental plays and trying to plant his *** down on the block.
 
Bricklayer said:
Cousins ( B ) -- The Good: it took all of one game for DeMarcus to prove that he's more than just a thug out there. He showed all kinds of skills all over the court. Droppped several nifty passes, hit jumpers, showed ballhandling. The Better: His best trait of the night? Looking like he could be a major defensive rebounder, and a big guy who snags the defensive board and then immediately turns and throws the outlet pass up the court. That can be a major trigger to a fastbreak, and he did it again and again. The Not So Good: for all the nifty stuff I would have liked to have seen more of the thug. He had one big power dunk in traffic, buit really otherwise seemed all too content to float around outside trying to dribble, pass and shoot jumpers. Nice to know he has those skills, but that was junky after a while. The bread and butter is inside, go there and show it to us big guy. The other issue I would say is his defense. Despite the bulk he was actually backed down by Monroe several times and really did not physically intimidate him the way you would have hoped. And as a help defense guy...just did not show anything as a shotblocker at all. In fact spent most of the night doing his best Mikki Moore imitatikon and constantly trying to run over and take charges. Given that he's maybe an inch shorter than Whiteside the difference in approach and effectiveness could not be more stark. Be interested in seeing how the rest of summer league goes, because these things have implications for the future -- if Demarcus is not a shotblocker, then you would like to start him next to one. Maybe even Whiteside. If he is a shotblocker, then his frontcourt mate is a lot more open.
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I don't think Cousins is a shot blocker, nor will ever be. I give him credit for trying to take the charges though. He's got quick feet, and he's obviously got strength. Eventually he should be good to very guys at keeping guys out of post position. He's not the help defender like Whiteside, and Whitside isn't the one-on-one post defender of Cousins. They look to be perfect complements to each other. It's very fortunate it worked out this way.
 
Kingster said:
I don't think Cousins is a shot blocker, nor will ever be. I give him credit for trying to take the charges though. He's got quick feet, and he's obviously got strength. Eventually he should be good to very guys at keeping guys out of post position. He's not the help defender like Whiteside, and Whitside isn't the one-on-one post defender of Cousins. They look to be perfect complements to each other. It's very fortunate it worked out this way.
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I was surprised to see Cousins trying to draw multiple charges. No, he isn't a shot blocker. Much more like Karl Malone's interior D.

I'm not worried about him shooting jumpers either. Looks like the Kings are trying to teach him the high pick and roll which left him straggling out on the perimeter at times. Easily fixable. He will learn to crash the boards more when he runs it with Tyreke - because he probably won't be getting the ball back. ;)

Cousins looked a little sloppy, but Detroit was really focused on him. He will get a ton of open looks, dunks, put backs etc once Tyreke is on the floor. Good times ahead.
 
Kingster said:
I don't think Cousins is a shot blocker, nor will ever be. I give him credit for trying to take the charges though. He's got quick feet, and he's obviously got strength. Eventually he should be good to very guys at keeping guys out of post position. He's not the help defender like Whiteside, and Whitside isn't the one-on-one post defender of Cousins. They look to be perfect complements to each other. It's very fortunate it worked out this way.
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It is indeed, because shotblocking is almost a sine qua non of a truly great center. Without it you are talking about maybe a new Brad Daugherty as a high end, and the oddity where your great center is not your defnsive anchor. That's awkward. But maybe doable if Whiteside realizes his potential. Who'd they play next to Daugherty back in the day? Explosive leaper/shotblocker Larry Nance.
 
Bricklayer said:
It is indeed, because shotblocking is almost a sine qua non of a truly great center. Without it you are talking about maybe a new Brad Daugherty as a high end, and the oddity where your great center is not your defnsive anchor. That's awkward. But maybe doable if Whiteside realizes his potential. Who'd they play next to Daugherty back in the day? Explosive leaper/shotblocker Larry Nance.
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Loved Nance - one of the better nicknames at the time "The High-Ayatolla of Slamola". I totally agree he will need a shot blocking specialist alongside for the Kings to have an effective interior team D. He sure is strong and eats rebounds, which is nice.

If one little summer game showed me anything it was that Cousins is not a true center, but a fascinating big man with skills. Cousins isn't Shaq by any stretch as far as centers go, if anything, with Cousins skill set I'd call him more of a PF than anything else on defense. Daugherty is an interesting comparison but I think Cousins is much tougher mentally.
 
One Summer League game and Cousins can't be a shotblocker? That's extrapolating a lot from very little. He's not a Whiteside-type shotblocker, but the guy still has a 9'5" reach.
 
I think he will block shots, but most will be of the Webber'esque flat footed variety - not the explosive blocks like The Dream or future HOF'er Whiteside's "get that sheeet out of here" variety.

But yeah, I guess we'll have to wait until after tonight's game to know for sure. ;)
 
Bricklayer said:
It is indeed, because shotblocking is almost a sine qua non of a truly great center. Without it you are talking about maybe a new Brad Daugherty as a high end, and the oddity where your great center is not your defnsive anchor. That's awkward. But maybe doable if Whiteside realizes his potential. Who'd they play next to Daugherty back in the day? Explosive leaper/shotblocker Larry Nance.
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Daugherty couldn't block shots at all. Even in college he barely averaged one a game in 30 minutes. Cousins blocked 1.8 per game in 23 minutes last year. I'd say (hope) maybe Cousins would be more like a Moses Malone ceiling, great rebounder and scorer, but just an ok shot blocker. Malone had a few years above 2 bpg, but was mostly around 1.5 or so for his prime.
 
Hallama said:
I think he will block shots, but most will be of the Webber'esque flat footed variety
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Obviously, but isn't that more what you expect from a prototype center, to take up space near the basket and stuff shots in his area? Whitesides flying from one side of the floor to the other to erase shots is amazing but the antithesis of that.

Hallama said:
But yeah, I guess we'll have to wait until after tonight's game to know for sure. ;)
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Definitely, one SL game isn't enough but after TWO everything's locked in for all time. :)
 
Bricklayer said:
It is indeed, because shotblocking is almost a sine qua non of a truly great center. Without it you are talking about maybe a new Brad Daugherty as a high end, and the oddity where your great center is not your defnsive anchor. That's awkward. But maybe doable if Whiteside realizes his potential. Who'd they play next to Daugherty back in the day? Explosive leaper/shotblocker Larry Nance.
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I think your analogy is a good one for the defensive end. That's why I thought it was ludicrous to think he has superstar potential. But he still can be very good.
Cousins bread is going to be buttered on the offensive end. As I said many times prior to the draft, it's an absolute must that he become a low post scorer who must be double-teamed. That's where his strength is (and rebounding). He's got the feet and the strength to do to be very good in that area, but as we all know, consistent low post scorers are almost extinct in the NBA. Coaches and players just aren't patient enough to develop low post scorers. It's really got be a bigtime commitment on his part and the coaching staff to get him to that point. That's why I can understand Vlade's sensitivity on the subject, even this early in the "season". The last thing I want him doing is shooting outside shots right now. I want Cousins to be extremely boring on offense - inside, inside, inside....
 
NME said:
One Summer League game and Cousins can't be a shotblocker? That's extrapolating a lot from very little. He's not a Whiteside-type shotblocker, but the guy still has a 9'5" reach.
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He's going to get some blocks in his immediate area, just not far outside of it. He was that kind of player in college also; it's not just this game.
 
I love you guys, allowing that maybe time will tell. Interesting first impressions. I guess after a player gets past 18 he becomes untrainable.
 
Kingster said:
He's going to get some blocks in his immediate area, just not far outside of it. He was that kind of player in college also; it's not just this game.
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I fail to see how this makes him not a shotblocker. What you describe is the case with most centers, and he's hardly immobile. If Brook Lopez can block 1.8 per game, you don't think Cousins could?
 
Kingster said:
I think your analogy is a good one for the defensive end. That's why I thought it was ludicrous to think he has superstar potential. But he still can be very good.
Cousins bread is going to be buttered on the offensive end. As I said many times prior to the draft, it's an absolute must that he become a low post scorer who must be double-teamed. That's where his strength is (and rebounding). He's got the feet and the strength to do to be very good in that area, but as we all know, consistent low post scorers are almost extinct in the NBA. Coaches and players just aren't patient enough to develop low post scorers. It's really got be a bigtime commitment on his part and the coaching staff to get him to that point. That's why I can understand Vlade's sensitivity on the subject, even this early in the "season". The last thing I want him doing is shooting outside shots right now. I want Cousins to be extremely boring on offense - inside, inside, inside....
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He absolutely has superstar potential. Brick was saying in the instance of "if" he doesn't have any shotblocking skills, then his ceiling as a great center goes down considerably. But that's a big "if" going off just one summer leage game where his focus seemed to be taking charges.

Just based off college stats and his mobility...I'd peg him for about 1.5 bpg give or take, with maybe a year or two where he jumps up around 2. Not all-world...but he has the potential in his prime to average 24-28 points and lead the league in rebounds along with that.

Keep in mind, that is just potential. He's got a long way to go, but let's not lower his ceiling off of one summer league game.
 
I doubt Cousins will be a top 10 shotblocker in the NBA, but I see no reason why he cant average a block+ a game. I mean, Spencer Hawes was #27 in block shots last year among centers, with 1.15 bpg. Add in the fact that Cousins will be much better at keeping guys out of the paint with his strength .. Im not too worried about him on D.

Especially if he is paired with a guy like Dalembert or Whiteside. Both guys are MUCH better weakside blockers than man defenders, so long as Cousins can keep guys from backing him down, the help defender should have enough time to slide over and block shots. This is something Donte Greene was able to do last season too.

One thing to remember about summer league is that, like college, most of the damage is done by guards. I mean .. how many chances did Cousins REALLY get to block a shot? Monroe got the ball in the post what .. like 5 or 6 times all game? The pistons only scored 68 points. Whiteside was getting all of the weakside blocks available anyways.

Not to mention a charge, something Cousins wasnt afraid to go for on multiple occasions, is MUCH better than a blocked shot. You get possession AND the player gets a foul. Im not sure what a good number for 'charges per game' is but if Cousins can average about 1 charge and 1 block per game, and play solid positional defense .. im fine with that.

All that being said, Cousins just isnt the best athlete. He has good quick feet, but he's not the crazy leaper that Dwight Howard or Hassan Whiteside is. I dont see how he can ever be 'that guy' but like I said 100 times in this post, I think his defense will be fine.
 
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