Start Best Defensively Inspired Five - Who?
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Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Reke
Salmons/Garcia
Greene/Garcia
Hayes
Demarcus.
Gotta have someone there to rebound the ball when the other team misses, so Demarcus is in there despite being an average defender at best. Garcia is pretty much interchangeable at either swingspots. In zone situations, I would possibly try Hassan in for Hayes as a goalkeeper.
Salmons/Garcia
Greene/Garcia
Hayes
Demarcus.
Gotta have someone there to rebound the ball when the other team misses, so Demarcus is in there despite being an average defender at best. Garcia is pretty much interchangeable at either swingspots. In zone situations, I would possibly try Hassan in for Hayes as a goalkeeper.
I dont think we need to start our 5 best defensive players for the position. What i do think, is that we need Reke and Cuz to be in our starting 5 so they can develop as much as possible.
That said, i think it's best for a lineup that balances both our offense and defense. As of now we're undersized at 3/5 of the positions - the 1,2, and 3. I've already expressed my want for Jimmer to be in the line up while moving Tyreke to the 2 while bringing in a 3, either Donte or Cisco. Cousins and either JT or Chuck - i prefer JT. I think that'll give us the best offense/defense balance.
But, if you're talking about defense, then i'd have to choose Salmons/Reke/Donte/JT/Cousins
Heuge
Starter
I think there is much doubt in JT over Hayes. We so quickly forget that Hayes received votes for the defensive player of the year last year..
That said, this is just a defensive lineup. It is only a point to discuss as clearly basketball is played on both ends of the court.
Also, inspired is a useless adjective here. Jimmer can be infinitely inspired, but he will still suck as a defender because he simply lacks the tools to be that good of a defender.
I would include Cisco for his help defense and energy. Maybe Reke, Cisco, Salmons/Donte, Hayes and Cousins.
The tricky areas are SF and PF. Salmons will try to play defense, but he's lost a step. He can guard other old guys like him, but can't do anything against the younger and bigger guys. Donte can and he can guard stretch 4s, but he's not as clever. Hayes plays good position defense, but teams just go over the top of him. JT plays good defense off and on, but has his brainfarts. You have to include Cousins despite his tendency to reach instead of moving his feet because he takes up so much space and secures the boards.
The tricky areas are SF and PF. Salmons will try to play defense, but he's lost a step. He can guard other old guys like him, but can't do anything against the younger and bigger guys. Donte can and he can guard stretch 4s, but he's not as clever. Hayes plays good position defense, but teams just go over the top of him. JT plays good defense off and on, but has his brainfarts. You have to include Cousins despite his tendency to reach instead of moving his feet because he takes up so much space and secures the boards.
This is ultra big. Why can't Smart try this as our starting line-up and maybe have either Salmons or Evans interchangeably be the PG who brings up the ball? We can probably use this line-up and maybe Salmons does not get bored and plays his best.
1. Reke. I think it's pretty easy here. The opposing PGs have to work pretty hard vs. Evans
2. Toss up between Salmons and Garcia. I think I agree about Garcia's help defense and his ability to get in lanes, but I think Salmons is a better on ball defender.
3. Donte - I think he gives us the most versatility defensively in this position
4. Hayes is a solid brick, and should generally be able to matchup against most posts. Playing against two 7 footers, however, I would go with JT. He has a nose for the ball.
5. Cousins. His ability to draw a charge is Vlade-esque, and he can pull down the boards like no other.
You know, this probably wouldn't be too bad of a starting 5 overall...shame Smart didn't decide to build from a defensive standpoint. You've got two guys who need the ball, and roleplayers elsewhere. The bench then ends up with quite the offensive blitzkrieg.
2. Toss up between Salmons and Garcia. I think I agree about Garcia's help defense and his ability to get in lanes, but I think Salmons is a better on ball defender.
3. Donte - I think he gives us the most versatility defensively in this position
4. Hayes is a solid brick, and should generally be able to matchup against most posts. Playing against two 7 footers, however, I would go with JT. He has a nose for the ball.
5. Cousins. His ability to draw a charge is Vlade-esque, and he can pull down the boards like no other.
You know, this probably wouldn't be too bad of a starting 5 overall...shame Smart didn't decide to build from a defensive standpoint. You've got two guys who need the ball, and roleplayers elsewhere. The bench then ends up with quite the offensive blitzkrieg.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Yes, which is a sign in itself of our dysfunction. Our GM and parroting little color commentator/front office guy are absolutely fascinated with offense and "good all around basketball players". Everybody has to be able to shoot, pass and dribble for them to even acknowledge them having any other skills. But that's not how its done. There is simply no call to ever have 6 major offensive minded players on a team, let alone 8. There is one ball. Tehre are 2-3 stars. Everybody else should be doing the OTHER things.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
I think Hayes helps on some nights, more vs stretch 4's,but not as many nights as JT does. Also rebounding is a big part of defense and JT is superior on both ends compared to Hayes.
I rewatched the 2nd half of the Det game last night and Hayes was one of the more disappointing players for me defensively. Botched rotations, not existent pick&roll defense and sub par rebounding. Put it this way, I believe if either one of JT or Chuck were given 35 mins per night consistently I think JT would end up being more beneficial in all things defense. Not impressed with Chuck unless he's guarding stretch 4's.
Throwing out Honeycutt and WS Cisco is right below Cousin in blocks per 40 and leading the team in steals per 40.
Reke
Cisco
Donte
Jt over Hayes depending on matchup.
Cousins
I think the real question would be could a good coach put in a system to make our best defensive lineup able to score? How many pure offensive players will it take to make a system work from a not good coach, and Where do you stop? where is the point on the graph that your declining defense crosses the rising offensive trend?
Reke
Cisco
Donte
Jt over Hayes depending on matchup.
Cousins
I think the real question would be could a good coach put in a system to make our best defensive lineup able to score? How many pure offensive players will it take to make a system work from a not good coach, and Where do you stop? where is the point on the graph that your declining defense crosses the rising offensive trend?
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bajaden
Hall of Famer
I think you have to take into account that Cousins is trying to stay out of foul trouble, so he can't just go out there and push the envelope so to speak. When Cuz leaves the floor, our rebounding goes down the toilet. Bad rebounding means second chance points for the other team, which means our defense suffers. Even having said that, Cousins defense has improved dramaticly since the start of the season. He stops ball penetration all the time. Unfortunately, others forget to switch and cover his man. But thats not his fault. If you go to synergy.com, you'll see that JT is one of the better defenders on the team.
By and large, our interior defense isn't as big a problem as our perimeter defense. Perimeter penetration means one of our bigs has to leave his man to stop the ball, and that usually leads to a breakdown due to poor rotations. The answer isn't to put the five best defenders on the floor, but for our team defense to improve with the people we have starting now. Hayes is a good defender as long as he can keep his man away from the basket. But when he gets posted up by someone within 5 feet of the basket, he's usually toast if he doesn't get help. He can't jump, and he simply can't defend a good 6'10" post player that has that kind of position.
Maybe so but the opposite is true also. I believe Evans is a very talented athletic defender but unfortunately he is too often not inspired. That is why he is not on my "DIST".
I know whatever team you start has to play both ways but if we started these guys a couple of times or as necessary it might inspire the uninspired. That is what I would like to do.
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rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Woah, woah, woah, back up the trolly. I thought this was completely theoretical. You actually want to start that lineup, in an actual game?
You're right, what we really need to do is to teach/get our best starting five to play better team defense. But I also see that our best can become uninspired by each other. The "why should I bust my butt defending when this guy or that guy or all the guys are no good tonight or dogging it" syndrome. Unfortunately I think we are too often closer to that syndrome than the "good team defense" syndrome - so why not stir the defensive pot and reward the better defensive play.
Doctor, are you actually going to amputate my leg? Am I serious? Is the problem serious? Are the Kings serious? No, I'm not.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Can we agree that we're not making the playoffs this year? I think it would take a miracle at this point. If so, I think the rest of the season should be dedicated to the development of our best young players that appear to be part of this team going forward. If we win doing that, then so much the better. But I think we should start laying the foundation for next season and beyond. So, that said, if Hickson isn't in our future, then he goes to the end of the bench. If Greene isn't in our future, he joins him. Ditto Outlaw.
So that would mean that Honeycutt and Whiteside have just moved down the bench closer to the floor. So lets play them and see what they can bring. Lets give them experience now, that might make them useful next season. I'm not saying start them, but just give them the minutes that the others would have gotten. Now I'm not a mind reader, so I don't know who Petrie considers a future part of the team. But I think we can all agree, that some serious changes need to be made. So if you not sure about Donte, then start him and let Honeycutt back him up. But once and for all, lets find out if we want Greene on the team going forward.
Those are the kind of changes I want to see. Player development, and familiarity development. If a player doesn't want to run the offense, then sit his butt down, and explain the facts of life to him.
I understand your frustration with the way the teams playing defense. But you still have to score points to win a game. You still need people that can put the ball in the basket. Our defense would improve dramaticly, simply by getting bigger. Start Greene at SF and move Tyreke to SG, and Wa La, your better. That way you don't have Thornton trying to guard Prince. If you truely want to analyze the defense, just look at the matchups we're presenting the other team. The minute we put Thornton on Prince, Prince posted him up twice in a row and scored twice in a row. Sorry, but thats not Thornton's fault. By moving Tyreke to SF and IT to the PG position, we've gone from having a size advantage at times, to a lack of size most of the time. And it shows on the defensive side of the ball. All the teams get the same scouting report, and now they're all attackinig the Kings the same way.
What we have is a personell problem. We have a lot of ill fitting pieces. And you can juggle them around all you want, but the result isn't going to change much without changing the personell.
Good post. I will settle for any improvement and I totally agree that the easiest and simplist is to have Thornton not start, slip Evans over, start anybody Smart wants at the 3, Donte, Garcia, Salmons, whoever works best. Do it!!!! But if you're not going to it then start our best defensive team for a change. Stir up the pot one way or anoth*r.
Yes once you throw away a season you should play the guys you have questions about bringing back or play the young-ins but will that happen? Will a coach do that if it might cost him his job even if its better for the team in the long run? There should be a couple players who shouldn't see the floor the rest of the year not because they aren't good enough but rather because they aren't in our plans but I don't think we will look at this objectively.
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