So let's say STOP collects the needed signatures...

N

Nikefutbolero

Guest
#1
#1
Then what card does the mayor play? Are we pretty much SOL and have to go to the ballot? Because if we do we can pretty much kiss the Kings goodbye (given the amount of ignorant residents in Sacramento). Give me some hope that even if they collect the signatures, there is a loophole, or something the mayor can do to prevent a public vote. I have zero faith in Sacramentans to do the right thing. Is there something legally they can do? GIVE ME HOPE!
 
Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#2
#2
If the STOP campaign collects enough valid signatures, there would actually have to be TWO votes, not one, to stop the arena. The first vote would be on the issue of whether or not funding for arenas has to go on the ballot. If that were to pass, then the second vote would be on whether or not to fund the arena. There are some procedural questions about whether the signature drive is even valid, on top of that.

But even if it went to a vote and the first vote went STOP's way (which I could see), I truly believe that there is no way that the second vote would go poorly. The community appears to support the arena by a large margin, with only a very small contingent of people supporting STOP. Recall that in order to get enough donations to run their signature campaign, they had to get money from ulterior-motive-man Chris Hansen, and that they still needed to be misleading (e.g. "Sign this petition to support the arena") in order to do it. There's just simply no groundswell of support behind the dozen vocal naysayers, and if push comes to shove, the facts of the city's contribution come down squarely on our side. In the end, STOP would be forced to either continue their outright lies about the size/nature of the city's contribution (and they'd get absolutely hammered on those lies by CrownDowntown and others) or concede that what they're really fighting against is an arena that, outside of a $38M land contribution (which said land actually can't be sold for $38M today because of the Natomas building moratorium) is completely financed by the investors and the arena-going public via fees and parking. The city's general fund essentially acts as a backstop to guarantee the payoff of the $212.5M in bonds, but that's only if revenues fall short. And even then, if revenues fall short a whole $1M per year, the city isn't on the hook for the whole $212.5M plus bond interest, it's on the hook for the $1M per year...$35M total in a pretty worst case scenario. And even in that worst case scenario, that's $38M of land and $35M - $73M total - for a downtown arena and all of the surrounding development and revitalization that it will bring. Cheap at twice the price. And that's what STOP is fighting. When people see that, they'll know the right vote. So don't panic.
 
Purple Reign

Purple Reign

Starter
#3
#3
I personally feel that if STOP comes up with enough signatures, that the City of Sacramento will challenge them in court. Due to hansen's shenannagans and all of the lies and deceitfulness of STOP.
 
Kingsfan23

Kingsfan23

All-Star
#7
#7
Looking forward to this coming to a resolution.. did they get the signatures or not? As of right now I don't have a grasp on the opposition's efforts.. The opposition could be rag tag and only come up with several thousand legit votes, or they, with the help of slimeball Hansen and others, could make politics in this city very interesting over the coming year by coming up with these John hancocks
 
J

JB_kings

Starter
#9
#9
Given that they were rumored to be paying up to $5 a signature starting last week and they have been going door to door. I think they might be worried about not having enough valid signatures. The key word there is valid.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#10
#10
JB_kings said:
Given that they were rumored to be paying up to $5 a signature starting last week and they have been going door to door. I think they might be worried about not having enough valid signatures. The key word there is valid.
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They've spent a bit of time outside the city limits gathering signatures, so between those and all the ones that are being withdrawn, I think they're in bigger trouble than they'll ever admit.
 
G

Ggasser

Prospect
#11
#11
A signature gather just came to our front door and got my wife to sign the petition by telling her the arena was going to cost tax payers $800,000,000. "We just want to be able to vote on it" he said.
 
Gary

Gary

All-Star
#12
#12
Ugh.. Is it even going to cost anyone anything that is not going to use the arena? That sucks about your wife. I would give her the silent treatment for a week if that were my wife.
 
Warhawk

Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#13
#13
Gary

Gary

All-Star
#14
#14
And IF she still doesn't, you might want to start telling a lot of Henny Youngman jokes around her and her friends.
 
TyFreak Evans

TyFreak Evans

Bench
#17
#17
Even if STOP submits their required amount of signatures, I see no way in H - E - Double Hockey Sticks this arena is NOT being built. We will have a new arena. And the Sacramento Kings will be playing in it.
 
Warhawk

Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#18
#18
///Mink said:
They're planning on submitting 40,000 signatures. Not sure if that is good news or bad news, but when their spokesman says "it’s going to be close”, I can't help but think that they're not too confident.

http://www.sacbee.com/2013/12/09/5985223/opponents-of-arena-subsidy-say.html
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Agreed. They KNOW they have a lot of invalid signatures. I thought I read that they were even collecting some signatures at locations outside city limits.

And they are going to have 15,000+ signature withdrawls to account for - that alone would drop their "net" unverified signatures to less than 30,000 (assuming 2/3 of the withdrawls are valid requests).
 
PurpleHaze

PurpleHaze

All-Star
#19
#19
I received in mail about month ago request to sign and return one by STOP. But get this. I don't live in city of Sacramento but in the county. My voting residence is close (about 1/8 mile) from city boundary line. When I sent an email asking why I received such request for signature and questioned this possible voter fraud scam, they finally responded few weeks later. What was their answer? They said it was mass mailing to various zip codes with some over-lapping from city to county and that they would appreciate it if I would give request to any relatives or friends who could sign that lived in city of Sac. FAT CHANCE VOTER FRAUDSTERS - A.K.A. STOP
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#20
#20
It's a good thing STOP and their cohorts are such bozos. If they weren't, this whole thing would have been a lot more worrisome. As it is, they've taken the wrong fork in the road at every opportunity. I'll just be glad when it's over. But, as Carmichael Dave said, we won't really be able to take deep breath and exhale until tip off of the first game in the new arena. And I plan to be there! :)
 
Kingsfan23

Kingsfan23

All-Star
#21
#21
Hopefully they don't get these signatures because I'd like for this arena issue to not hang over our heads for another length of time so that we can just focus on BBall like the other 28 fanbases (leaving out Milwaukee). I also don't want scuzz bucket Hansen to have the satisfaction of helping to bring this issue before the city populace
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#22
#22
They say they have 40,000. They need 22,000. The DowntownArena folks have collected some 15,000 signatures for retraction. That leaves STOP with 25,000 signatures. That means 89% of the remaining signatures have to be valid - with no duplicates. That's almost impossible, especially with the way they were collecting signatures outside the city limits.
 
kennadog

kennadog

Dog On It!
#23
#23
First of all, even if the arena total cost does go up, all the increase will have to be covered by the Kings. The city's contribution is a set amount of $258 million. The more the arena costs, the lower the city's percentage contribution to the total cost. That would actually be a good thing. After all, the city would own a better arena without putting in any more money.

Secondly, even if they get enough valid signatures, the petition is likely to be declared invalid by the courts, a fact the city has known for months.
 
Warhawk

Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#25
#25
Dig this latest quote:

Camacho continued that, "talk is cheap, but the results are in.”
“At STOP, we want to pay tribute to the people of Sacramento, especially the beautiful women of Sacramento who are devoted to the long-term growth of the city," he said.
STOP plans to turn in roughly 40,000 signatures it has gathered at about 3 p.m. today. Those signatures will be filed with the City Clerk’s office.
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Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2013/12/10/5988401/mayor-johnson-goes-after-anti.html#storylink=cpy

REALLY? WTH?

I like Dave's response:

Carmichael Dave‏@CarmichaelDave1h
STOP DOES NOT CARE ABOUT UNATTRACTIVE WOMEN -Uncle Creepmacho

Carmichael Dave‏@CarmichaelDave2h
As an ugly man, STOP and Julian Camacho's lack of inclusiveness offends me.
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