Number was 35,300 give or take a few signatures. Apparently, by around Friday city clerk will verify exact number of signatures turned in and then turn it over to county recorders office who will have responsibility for VERIFYING validity of signatures - especially that they are actual residents of city of Sacramento. At same time, about 15,000 folks have petitioned to have their names removed from STOP signature effort as being obtained under a fraudulent claim with deadline now passed for that request. County has 30 biz days to verify STOP petition as a go or not. So it looks like around mid January we will know if STOP got 22,000 VERIFIED signatures that's required.
Would not be one bit surprised. I'm not a math major but just looking at the basics here. STOP has roughly 35,000 signatures with roughly 15,000 folks now wanting to be expunged. That leaves 25,000 signatures that STOP is counting on to be verified and counted - not duplicates, live in Sac city limits, etc. That would seem to be really cutting it close with only a roughly 3,000 signature cushion if my math is correct
Would not be one bit surprised. I'm not a math major but just looking at the basics here. STOP has roughly 35,000 signatures with roughly 15,000 folks now wanting to be expunged. That leaves 25,000 signatures that STOP is counting on to be verified and counted - not duplicates, live in Sac city limits, etc. That would seem to be really cutting it close with only a roughly 3,000 signature cushion if my math is correct
So Craig Powell from VFAD was all hopping mad about the surprise timeline of the bond funding. This wasn't some bombshell. I knew about it back in August. The "what if?" scenarios with that timeline went away when Gov. Brown signed the SB to streamline the EIR process. Which happened months ago. The draft EIR and final EIR were projected to finish in the March or April time frame. Giving the city and the Kings April and May to negotiate the final deal and have the city vote. The marketing of the bonds takes about 60 days and that cannot start until council votes on final agreement. Final agreement has to wait on final EIR.
Craig is not dumb. He was doing faux shock response to the report. A report that was also online last Thursday night. Which tells me that STOP/VFAD knew they were likely too late and their only play left to whip up the public sympathy. Today was their big day. I don't think they are going to get any broad support on this. They earned their tainted rep.
Craig is not dumb. He was doing faux shock response to the report. A report that was also online last Thursday night. Which tells me that STOP/VFAD knew they were likely too late and their only play left to whip up the public sympathy. Today was their big day. I don't think they are going to get any broad support on this. They earned their tainted rep.
I don't think we need to worry about it. DowntownArena.org has collected so many retractions that the validity rate on the signatures actually has to be higher than the validity rate on the retractions for them to reach their goal. I think I'd expect that the retractions (which were intended to be signed only by somebody who had already signed the original petition) ought to have a higher validity rate.
The way it stands the math doesn't look good for STOP. The validity rate for these sorts of things has a high-end of about 80%. Considering that STOP is known to have canvassed outside the city (both in person and by mail) and was paying high rates per signature, 80% is unrealistically high, but let's say they get it. That's 28K valid signatures. DowntownArena.org would only need to have collected 6K valid retractions (of 15K, that's 40%) to submarine the initiative.
The way it stands the math doesn't look good for STOP. The validity rate for these sorts of things has a high-end of about 80%. Considering that STOP is known to have canvassed outside the city (both in person and by mail) and was paying high rates per signature, 80% is unrealistically high, but let's say they get it. That's 28K valid signatures. DowntownArena.org would only need to have collected 6K valid retractions (of 15K, that's 40%) to submarine the initiative.
As I understand process city clerk will merely be verifying total number of signature turned in - reported to be about 35,300. Then turned over to Sac County registrar of voters who will do real work of verifying signatures as valid or not. Entire process is supposed to completed with final certification on go or no go for STOP effort by around mid January.
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Sacramento County starting to find big problems with STOP signatures - no real surprise! Arizona, Las Vegas signees! Apparently, lots of Sac county but not required Sac city eligible. All together over 2,000 eliminated already with possibility of well over 15,000 in final tally to be voided. This is simply put a messy effort and a mess is better for us and not a good sign at all for STOP.
http://www.kcra.com/news/arena-peti...na/-/11797728/23643952/-/vufovoz/-/index.html
http://www.kcra.com/news/arena-peti...na/-/11797728/23643952/-/vufovoz/-/index.html
Um, that's not what the article says.
All in all, it's a confusing article but what it means, is they've checked 8,233 of the 15,000 signatures on the petitions that were submitted to REMOVE names from the STOP petition. Of those 8,233 they have found that 5,937 are from valid voters in Sacramento County. That's all they're checking at this point. It will still need to be determined if these valid voters live within the City of Sacramento AND if they signed the initial STOP petition.
All in all, it's a confusing article but what it means, is they've checked 8,233 of the 15,000 signatures on the petitions that were submitted to REMOVE names from the STOP petition. Of those 8,233 they have found that 5,937 are from valid voters in Sacramento County. That's all they're checking at this point. It will still need to be determined if these valid voters live within the City of Sacramento AND if they signed the initial STOP petition.
It's not actually that bad for the pro-arena folk. There are always a certain percentage of signatures that have to be discarded from petitions. When they actually start to validate the STOP signatures, there will most likely be a statistically similar percentage of invalid signatures right off the bat. In fact, there's every chance the number of invalid signatures on the STOP petitions will be much higher than the 72% validation rate currently being found with the withdrawal signatures.
The STOP folk submitted 35,000 signatures. If we use the 72% figure as a hypothetical validation rate, they will net some 25,200 signatures. If only 1/2 of the petition withdrawal signatures end up being valid, that's still over 5,000 signatures to be removed from the STOP petitions. That leaves them way short of the 22,000 required.
The STOP folk submitted 35,000 signatures. If we use the 72% figure as a hypothetical validation rate, they will net some 25,200 signatures. If only 1/2 of the petition withdrawal signatures end up being valid, that's still over 5,000 signatures to be removed from the STOP petitions. That leaves them way short of the 22,000 required.
STOP's Mistakes
It’s been a while since I last posted a message on KingsFans.com
I’ll address a few things.
STOP has made many mistakes.
City Charter
We know a few of them such as how the city charter gives the council the authority and power to make a decision on the non-binding arena term sheet as well as to voting on it to make it binding. There’s no taxes or new taxes so there’s that.
Does anyone remember the city council meeting that was held on Feb. 9, 2012?
If not here’s what the Bee reported…
If that vote by the council had passed, you can only imagine what could have happened.
Deadlines
On May 29, 2013, STOP notified the city clerk’s office that it intended to gather signatures. The city attorney’s office had two weeks to write a ballot summary before STOP could begin collecting.
On June 13, 2013, the ballot summary was made official but Camacho told KCRA 3 they were reconsidering the special election because it would cost the city $1.5 million. Camacho also said the short time frame to collect signatures was difficult.
STOP missed their own deadline for the special election in December 2013 because they were reactive instead of proactive.
On July 10, 2013, Tab Berg told KCRA 3 they had collected “well over 10,000 signatures” but “not quite 30,000.” Tab said they planned on submitting the petitions in August. Keep in mind Chris Hansen’s money was being used for nearly a month.
At a recent city council meeting it was said the council would vote in April 2014 and the bonds to be sold in May 2014 with the arena opening in fall 2016 for the 2016-2017 NBA season. This has been public information for quite some time but it was funny to watch the reaction of Craig Powell during that meeting. It was like he was just learning all of this information for the first time and became very angry that their vote was being taken away.
The key here is STOP was working on their own deadlines instead of the city’s deadlines.
STOP is also asking for two votes. One is should the registered voters of the city of Sacramento have a vote on the arena spending and if that passed then another vote would take place months later down the road. Basically they’re trying to delay the project just as Michael Edwards said on video to us this past summer.
STOP has no one to blame but themselves for their own stupidity.
More Mistakes
I can’t say what the other mistakes are but I can say I have proof and I have been sitting on this since last summer. I have also checked with a few folks in the know to validate what I have and if what I am told is correct then STOP is in a world of hurt.
If what I have is proven to be true then I’ll show my cards once it is made public. If not I’ll share what I have at another time.
The fight is not over so I hope that you can join us for more good times at City Hall along with the arena debate, etc.
We also have a look back at 2013 on our web site at crowndowntown.org
It begins with January 2013 – http://www.crowndowntown.org/2013/12/22/2013-a-year-in-review-part-2
Finally 2008-2012 here – http://www.crowndowntown.org/2013/12/21/2013-a-year-in-review-part-1
Looking forward to our bright future.
It’s been a while since I last posted a message on KingsFans.com
I’ll address a few things.
STOP has made many mistakes.
City Charter
We know a few of them such as how the city charter gives the council the authority and power to make a decision on the non-binding arena term sheet as well as to voting on it to make it binding. There’s no taxes or new taxes so there’s that.
Does anyone remember the city council meeting that was held on Feb. 9, 2012?
If not here’s what the Bee reported…
If that vote by the council had passed, you can only imagine what could have happened.
Deadlines
On May 29, 2013, STOP notified the city clerk’s office that it intended to gather signatures. The city attorney’s office had two weeks to write a ballot summary before STOP could begin collecting.
On June 13, 2013, the ballot summary was made official but Camacho told KCRA 3 they were reconsidering the special election because it would cost the city $1.5 million. Camacho also said the short time frame to collect signatures was difficult.
STOP missed their own deadline for the special election in December 2013 because they were reactive instead of proactive.
On July 10, 2013, Tab Berg told KCRA 3 they had collected “well over 10,000 signatures” but “not quite 30,000.” Tab said they planned on submitting the petitions in August. Keep in mind Chris Hansen’s money was being used for nearly a month.
At a recent city council meeting it was said the council would vote in April 2014 and the bonds to be sold in May 2014 with the arena opening in fall 2016 for the 2016-2017 NBA season. This has been public information for quite some time but it was funny to watch the reaction of Craig Powell during that meeting. It was like he was just learning all of this information for the first time and became very angry that their vote was being taken away.
The key here is STOP was working on their own deadlines instead of the city’s deadlines.
STOP is also asking for two votes. One is should the registered voters of the city of Sacramento have a vote on the arena spending and if that passed then another vote would take place months later down the road. Basically they’re trying to delay the project just as Michael Edwards said on video to us this past summer.
STOP has no one to blame but themselves for their own stupidity.
More Mistakes
I can’t say what the other mistakes are but I can say I have proof and I have been sitting on this since last summer. I have also checked with a few folks in the know to validate what I have and if what I am told is correct then STOP is in a world of hurt.
If what I have is proven to be true then I’ll show my cards once it is made public. If not I’ll share what I have at another time.
The fight is not over so I hope that you can join us for more good times at City Hall along with the arena debate, etc.
We also have a look back at 2013 on our web site at crowndowntown.org
It begins with January 2013 – http://www.crowndowntown.org/2013/12/22/2013-a-year-in-review-part-2
Finally 2008-2012 here – http://www.crowndowntown.org/2013/12/21/2013-a-year-in-review-part-1
Looking forward to our bright future.
Let the fun begin.....
Nick Monacelli @nickmonacelli 49m
BREAKING: @TheCityofSac finds different versions of STOP petitions. Legally, all must be identical. Could derail anti-arena vote efforts.
Nick Monacelli @nickmonacelli 49m
BREAKING: @TheCityofSac finds different versions of STOP petitions. Legally, all must be identical. Could derail anti-arena vote efforts.
Nice.. You knew something was fishy about all this. They were even in my parents neighborhood collecting sigs and my parents live near Elk Grove... Neither of them signed it of course and my dad tried to educate the gatherer that this was a "city" deal, and that he was way out of the city. He just kept going to other houses.
I doubt they even get this off the ground. There will be no vote.
I doubt they even get this off the ground. There will be no vote.
Just remember - those so-called volunteers got paid per signature. Did they really care if the signer was a registered Sacramento City resident? Of course not. Each signature was another few bills in their wallet.
Petition gatherers have already been paid and now the wheat gets separated from the chaff. Hopefully, they'll be full of chaff.
Petition gatherers have already been paid and now the wheat gets separated from the chaff. Hopefully, they'll be full of chaff.