Should Rick Adelman have been re-signed?

[Bricklayer]

Poll results: 113 Homers to 36 REALISTS.

Crossing the line from trying to insult me to insulting other members on the board was a mistake.

 

[D-Mass]

It's obvious to fans of basketball, who like the Kings, that the right decision was made.

That's just a crazy statement.

 

[VF21]

And, somewhat ironically, it was the last statement he'll be making.

 

[PixelPusher]

It's obvious to fans of basketball, who like the Kings, that the right decision was made.

FYI, browsing the boards of other teams fans, many of them think it was the wrong decision.

 

[Bricklayer]

A: Yea he only averaged like 8pts, 9rbs, and like close to 2 blocks a game b4 the thumb injuries, and was completely healthy, but just sat on the bench with lots of DNP CD.

Yes, I too remember Brian's THREE WEEKS of glory. Woot!

But he is not, nor ever has been, that good.

He is solid, and playable. But he's not an impact player. And ahead of him you had Brad Miller, Shareef, and Kenny Thomas, all with resumes at least as impressive. It is telling that Brina was the odd man out. But with all of the traffic ahead of him, any minutes Brina got, meant somebody else was pushed to the end of the bench. You want him to be a roatation guy -- don't go out and sign 3 guys ahead of him.

B: Wait who took over in game 5 with 3 minutes to go? Who was the center rountinely getting outhuslted, outmuscled and embaressed by 6'1 pgs? It was Miller, and don't tell me an interior presence of some sort wasn't the difference between us winning and losing. He played Duncan well last year, that is all I was saying. Don't be fooled by small ball, Duncan Still averaged 18.3 pts, shot 61%, and averaged 9.2rbs plus over a block a game. He was effective and in some games completely took over.

You seem to misunderstand the point of the small ball. We didn't small ball to stop Duncan, you small ball to eliminate the OTHER Spurs big, and take advanatge of the Spurs weaker small players.

And if you are seriously suggesting that ANY coach at ANY level above YMCA would have broken Vitaly Potapenko out for his first serious minutes in forever with 4 minutes to go in Game 5 of the playoffs against the defending champs...being a Monday morning quarterback is the easiest job in the world.

C. Right, a very good defensive specialist, was he in the defensive player of the year race? Ne ways-hart in like 10-15 minutes would play like crap, ronnie in like 4-5 minutes would hit a 3 or two, have a rebound, steal. He has very quick feet good rotations and gets on his man. He deserved way more time, but Rick Loves to let good young talent rot on the bench.

Yes, verily Ronnie Price = great young talent that ANYBODY would have played. I mean how could you not. Such silliness.

How can you still feel this way after 8 straight years of failure to win the MAIN PRIZE:NBA CHAMPIONSHIP

How can you be unrealistic enough to think not winning a title in 8 years is "failure"? Got news for you -- 27 of the 30 teams in the elague have failed right along with us. Doing it is not as easy as coming onto a messageboard and screaming about it. Especially when you do not have Shaq, Kobe, or Duncan.

E.) So when we let him go in the 04-05 season for the expansion draft, and kept people like ERIK DANIELS instead, just goes to show you how stupid a decision that was. In 3 years with the Kings Gerald Wallace got a combined minute total of 1,338 minutes. Then you divide that number by 3 for the number of seasons and that goes to 446 minutes a year average. Then we go 446 and divide that by 82 games and it equals 5.43 minutes a game. For example this season alone Kevin Marting got 1,913 minutes in one season and it is still 600 more than what Gerald got in 3 damn seasons. Players don't develop without playing time, plain and simple, no reason to argue my theory, it is proven. I agree 2004-2005 was big run for the title, huh brick

Rule #1 of pompousness: make sure you know what the hell you are talking about, otherwise you end up looking foolish. The expansion draft was held after the 03-04 season, not 04-05. And yes, in 03-04 we were still very much in the championship hunt. Erik Daniels was still in college at the time, and barely slipped onto our roster as the 12th/13th man after camp in Oct. '04. About all you got right was that we should not have let Gerald go.

F.) Kevin stated the reason why he struggled is because if he made one mistake, he knew he was going out of the game. But when Bonzi was injured he knew he was the starter, and could play through the mistake, with no fear of penalty from the coach. That was why he struggled early, is it fun knowing if you mess up once, your done and through? NO, I think not, Bonzis injury was a blessing in disguise, it helped Kevin develop into the player, that Rick kept from the world, from lack of playing time. How many 1st round picks beyond the last 2 picks(martin,garcia) are with the team? And of those players who went onto successful careers once they got the playing time to develop, that Sacramento Prohibited, because of loyalty to veterans and starters, plain and simple!

Indeed, Rick kept Kevin from the world! Such simplistic thinking will not get you far in life. Let's think a little deeper. So, you think that coaches of veteran franchises routinely bench quality veteran starters to throw struggling kids into the starting lineup? Or are you arguing for Kevin to get "magic" minutes, whereby somehow he gets to rack up starters' minutes while all the rest of the guys somehow continue getting theirs? Perhaps your obvious move, which you COMPLETELY suggested in Novemeber of course, was to bench Bonzi (our best player at the time) for Kevin, or bench 3 time All-Star Peja for Kevin? I mean OBVIOUSLY. Giving a guy 16-18 min a night is never enough for anyone to show anything. I mean, other than virtually ever bench player in the league of course.

 

[shaka zulu]

He was a changed man coming INTO Sacramento, he didn't become this awesome leader who has great qualities because of the style of play. That may have influenced it while he was here, but I remember the press conference before he came here he said he wanted to prove people wrong and it's a new start for him. Ugh, I'm so tired of people saying Rick changed him, he did it himself. Like I think Magruder said, I specifically remember Adelman saying "I didn't choose to bring him here" subliminally implying "I don't want him here." Adelman was quick to judge, but once everyone saw the changes Artest made, everyone grew fond of him. He's a great leader now and shows great qualities because of the strides he has made Himself.

We will see, You will need a whole season to see if he has leadership skills to endure the long haul without doing something out of the ordinary, Don't just annoit him the King of Kings quite yet, He will need to earn this leadership with Time.

 

[Kings2805]

Wow, Brick your overall basketball analysis is average at best, I am wasting my time responding to your illogical views and theories. By the way check Gerald Wallaces history, his 1st season with charlotte was 2004-2005 and he was resigned for one year this offseason, and then reached new highs in 05-06. Wow who is looking foolish now? Yea also 8 years is plenty, like the Maloofs said they saw with the kings, and their Monarchs 1st hand defense wins championships. Why are people so afraid of change, that they let their emotions and sentimental feelings get the best of their better judgement? For you to argue Adelman was a coach who lacked defensive players that is completely off base, Adelman always thought offense 1st, and the Kings were built to win by outscoring their opponent. Look at the Kings offense and Defense for 8 years, and my views get very accurate, because they are backed by cold hard facts, not off based emotions and opinions.

 

[VF21]

Wow, Brick your overall basketball analysis is average at best, I am wasting my time responding to your illogical views and theories. By the way check Gerald Wallaces history, his 1st season with charlotte was 2004-2005 and he was resigned for one year this offseason, and then reached new highs in 05-06. Wow who is looking foolish now? Yea also 8 years is plenty, like the Maloofs said they saw with the kings, and their Monarchs 1st hand defense wins championships. Why are people so afraid of change, that they let their emotions and sentimental feelings get the best of their better judgement? For you to argue Adelman was a coach who lacked defensive players that is completely off base, Adelman always thought offense 1st, and the Kings were built to win by outscoring their opponent. Look at the Kings offense and Defense for 8 years, and my views get very accurate, because they are backed by cold hard facts, not off based emotions and opinions.

You're funny.

And you continue to pointificate about your use of "cold hard facts" even though half the time you cannot even recite them correctly.

Your views are simply opinions, no more no less. I know that probably comes as a shock.

 

[Kings2805]

You're funny.

And you continue to pointificate about your use of "cold hard facts" even though half the time you cannot even recite them correctly.

Your views are simply opinions, no more no less. I know that probably comes as a shock.

Hey, well with that being said please point out the error in my stats, and Do I really have to do all the work for you, and research every little stat, I told you what to look for. I will not pull the Kings scoring average per season, and the points allowed per season. You can do that, and see for yourself my facts are correct. You are just mad, because I don't think like you, and agree with your opinions. You tend to attack people who do not follow in line with agreement of the consensus. Other people have noticed this to, it is free speach, no need to try to authoritate and belittle people, because they think differently and you are the moderator.

Lasty if my opinions are simple, then yours must be based on emotions, feelings, with no regard to stats and performance.

 

[VF21]

Hey, well with that being said please point out the error in my stats, and Do I really have to do all the work for you, and research every little stat, I told you what to look for. I will not pull the Kings scoring average per season, and the points allowed per season. You can do that, and see for yourself my facts are correct. You are just mad, because I don't think like you, and agree with your opinions. You tend to attack people who do not follow in line with agreement of the consensus. Other people have noticed this to, it is free speach, no need to try to authoritate and belittle people, because they think differently and you are the moderator.

Lasty if my opinions are simple, then yours must be based on emotions, feelings, with no regard to stats and performance.

Oh, here we go...

I didn't say your opinions are simple. What I said was your views are simply (or merely) opinions. BIG difference.

I'm not going to exchange unpleasantries with you. Have a nice day. Post your facts and statistics to your heart's content.

Look at the replies. I'm not the only one who finds your arguments specious at best. Have fun...while it lasts.

P.S. I'm anxiously awaiting an in-depth response to EACH of the points Bricklayer has raised in his reply to you above.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I put my vote for I don't know (although I do care) after weighing both the thoughts of Petrie and the organization's official line and Rick's. I do think that ordinarily Rick deserved another chance to work with this line up but that a change may still ultimately prove to be the right thing. The public handling of this has been a complete fiasco and PR disaster so they better find the right guy for the job.

 

[KevinMartinsGirl23]

Wow, Brick your overall basketball analysis is average at best, I am wasting my time responding to your illogical views and theories. By the way check Gerald Wallaces history, his 1st season with charlotte was 2004-2005 and he was resigned for one year this offseason, and then reached new highs in 05-06. Wow who is looking foolish now? Yea also 8 years is plenty, like the Maloofs said they saw with the kings, and their Monarchs 1st hand defense wins championships. Why are people so afraid of change, that they let their emotions and sentimental feelings get the best of their better judgement? For you to argue Adelman was a coach who lacked defensive players that is completely off base, Adelman always thought offense 1st, and the Kings were built to win by outscoring their opponent. Look at the Kings offense and Defense for 8 years, and my views get very accurate, because they are backed by cold hard facts, not off based emotions and opinions.

Yes, Gerald Wallace's first year as a Bobcat was AFTER the 2003-04 season, but the draft was made from the 2003-04 roster. There were rules to the draft and limits to who the team could protect (only 8 players). This was on a Kings team that included- Bibby, Christie, Divac, Jackson, Miller, Peja & Webber- which is 7/8 right there. I really liked Wallace and I wish we could have kept him, but I think he came at a bad time- he was drafted during the middle of our Championship run. I always thought he would be really good, and we're seeing that now. However, his problem still is staying healthy since he plays with such aggression it often leads to injuries with him- he had that problem here too.

Here is a link to the rules on the expansion draft: http://www.nba.com/bobcats/news/draft_central_expansion_rules_summary.html

I do think there is validity to saying our team has a bunch of weak defensive players. I wasn't at practice, so I don't know what Adelman really did. I think he had a strong offensive team and went with it. I don't think he threw defense out the door, but what did he really have to work with. Could he have done better? Yes. But I think the team needed to make a commitment with defensive players in order to have a defesive team (see Detroit Pistons). You said that the team was BUILT to win by outscoring their oponent. The GM builds the team, not Adelman. His job is to work with what he is given.

I for one am on the fence about the Adelman situation- I can see both sides of it. I am looking forward to the possibilities of the future, but I know what a great job Adelman can do. I think either way, things will probably work themselves out.

 

[loopymitch]

I voted for I don't know (not care). I like RA and I will miss him but change was inevitable. It happened with the players and so why not the coach. It really depends who we get, the grass is not always greener on the other side.

 

[VF21]

Yes, Gerald Wallace's first year as a Bobcat was AFTER the 2003-04 season, but the draft was made from the 2003-04 roster. There were rules to the draft and limits to who the team could protect (only 8 players). This was on a Kings team that included- Bibby, Christie, Divac, Jackson, Miller, Peja & Webber- which is 7/8 right there. I really liked Wallace and I wish we could have kept him, but I think he came at a bad time- he was drafted during the middle of our Championship run. I always thought he would be really good, and we're seeing that now. However, his problem still is staying healthy since he plays with such aggression it often leads to injuries with him- he had that problem here too.

Pretty good recap of the whole Gerald Wallace situation in a nutshell, KMG23. Your last sentence there is pretty telling. He's injury prone. Just what a injury prone team like the Kings need...

 

[Bricklayer]

Wow, Brick your overall basketball analysis is average at best,

Yeah, I get that a lot.


And now my befuddled friend, some cold hard facts for ya:

Kings Opposing FG% Over Adelman's 8 years:

'99 .446 21st
'00 .452 16th
'01 .432 7th (Christie, Bobby, Hedo arrive)
'02 .440 8th
'03 .420 1st (Jim Jackson, Keon Clark arrive)
'04 .454 25th (Jackson, Hedo, Pollard, Webb, Clark all gone)
'05 .459 24th
'06 .454 14th (and of course wiht the big split pre/post Artest)

THOSE are the "cold hard facts". Same coach every year. Yet wildly varying defensive results. How could that be? Unless maybe, just MAYBE, its the players on the floor. Unless maybe, just maybe if you give the coach defensive personnel, the defense magically gets better. Take it away, and it falls apart. That's a shocking hypothesis, I know.

 

[Padrino]

Yeah, I get that a lot.


And now my befuddled friend, some cold hard facts for ya:

Kings Opposing FG% Over Adelman's 8 years:

'99 .446 21st
'00 .452 16th
'01 .432 7th (Christie, Bobby, Hedo arrive)
'02 .440 8th
'03 .420 1st (Jim Jackson, Keon Clark arrive)
'04 .454 25th (Jackson, Hedo, Pollard, Webb, Clark all gone)
'05 .459 24th
'06 .454 14th (and of course wiht the big split pre/post Artest)

THOSE are the "cold hard facts". Same coach every year. Yet wildly varying defensive results. How could that be? Unless maybe, just MAYBE, its the players on the floor. Unless maybe, just maybe if you give the coach defensive personnel, the defense magically gets better. Take it away, and it falls apart. That's a shocking hypothesis, I know.

brickie....i love ya. why is the above so difficult for people to grasp? does adelman-hatred really run so deep that people are willing to overlook the obvious? sacramento's in for a rude awakening if the personnel doesn't change much this offseason...

 

[LilMissDiva]

I think there are many reasons I picked no, but mostly because the friction between the owners and upper management has been frayed to the point of no return, unfortunately.

I would not mind seeing what else is out there in fact, look at Dallas. I mean, you never know. And for what it's worth I pray to the Basketball Gods that we DO NOT SIGN DON NELSON!!!!!!!!

 

[Gary]

Our team has been pretty much the most injury prone team over the last 7 or so years. Do you chalk it up to how the rotation was used? Even Adelman said when he brought Wells back that he did too early, and played him too many minutes. Could this have been the difference between a 7th and 8th seed? Last year he brought back Jackson too early and he was out pretty much for the rest of the year. He also admitted there that he had brought him back too early. I have been a Kings fan since pretty much they came here, and I never remembered the team fighting through so many injuries as we have in the last 7 years.

How many times when a game is pretty much decided did we see Adelman keep his starters in until there was about 1-2 minutes left in the game rather than 6 or so which he could have pulled them.

Adelman never really trusted his bench past the 7th or 8th player. That's fine and dandy for the playoffs, but regular season is when the players "break down". Playing hard in the post season is what injures them after a year of too much playing time.

I run almost daily. I used to run about 30-35 minutes on the treadmill than after about a year or so my knee started giving me problems, and my shin splints would not go away. I was constantly taking pain meds so I can keep running. I ended up taking about 4 months off to heal myself.

About 3 years later now and I still run almost daily, but I run 24 minutes. Same routine, just less minutes. I have not had knee problems since I reduced my time after taking the 4 month rest. I have had only minor shin splint problems, but noting like they used to be.

Go back to pretty much all my Adelman posts and see that I have questioned his use of his starters, and bench players. I am not only coming up with this since we fired him. I really think this was why a lot of his players broke down. Not every player body is the same. We cant have 12 Bibbys on the floor at the same time.

 

[KevinMartinsGirl23]

Pretty good recap of the whole Gerald Wallace situation in a nutshell, KMG23. Your last sentence there is pretty telling. He's injury prone. Just what a injury prone team like the Kings need...

Hey, I heard you're not fully initiated as a King until you've gotten your first injury