Should Rick Adelman have been re-signed?
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Yes, I too remember Brian's THREE WEEKS of glory. Woot! 
But he is not, nor ever has been, that good.
He is solid, and playable. But he's not an impact player. And ahead of him you had Brad Miller, Shareef, and Kenny Thomas, all with resumes at least as impressive. It is telling that Brina was the odd man out. But with all of the traffic ahead of him, any minutes Brina got, meant somebody else was pushed to the end of the bench. You want him to be a roatation guy -- don't go out and sign 3 guys ahead of him.
You seem to misunderstand the point of the small ball. We didn't small ball to stop Duncan, you small ball to eliminate the OTHER Spurs big, and take advanatge of the Spurs weaker small players.
And if you are seriously suggesting that ANY coach at ANY level above YMCA would have broken Vitaly Potapenko out for his first serious minutes in forever with 4 minutes to go in Game 5 of the playoffs against the defending champs...being a Monday morning quarterback is the easiest job in the world.
Yes, verily Ronnie Price = great young talent that ANYBODY would have played. I mean how could you not. Such silliness.
How can you be unrealistic enough to think not winning a title in 8 years is "failure"? Got news for you -- 27 of the 30 teams in the elague have failed right along with us. Doing it is not as easy as coming onto a messageboard and screaming about it. Especially when you do not have Shaq, Kobe, or Duncan.
Rule #1 of pompousness: make sure you know what the hell you are talking about, otherwise you end up looking foolish. The expansion draft was held after the 03-04 season, not 04-05. And yes, in 03-04 we were still very much in the championship hunt. Erik Daniels was still in college at the time, and barely slipped onto our roster as the 12th/13th man after camp in Oct. '04. About all you got right was that we should not have let Gerald go.
Indeed, Rick kept Kevin from the world! Such simplistic thinking will not get you far in life. Let's think a little deeper. So, you think that coaches of veteran franchises routinely bench quality veteran starters to throw struggling kids into the starting lineup? Or are you arguing for Kevin to get "magic" minutes, whereby somehow he gets to rack up starters' minutes while all the rest of the guys somehow continue getting theirs? Perhaps your obvious move, which you COMPLETELY suggested in Novemeber of course, was to bench Bonzi (our best player at the time) for Kevin, or bench 3 time All-Star Peja for Kevin? I mean OBVIOUSLY. Giving a guy 16-18 min a night is never enough for anyone to show anything. I mean, other than virtually ever bench player in the league of course.
But he is not, nor ever has been, that good.
He is solid, and playable. But he's not an impact player. And ahead of him you had Brad Miller, Shareef, and Kenny Thomas, all with resumes at least as impressive. It is telling that Brina was the odd man out. But with all of the traffic ahead of him, any minutes Brina got, meant somebody else was pushed to the end of the bench. You want him to be a roatation guy -- don't go out and sign 3 guys ahead of him.
You seem to misunderstand the point of the small ball. We didn't small ball to stop Duncan, you small ball to eliminate the OTHER Spurs big, and take advanatge of the Spurs weaker small players.
And if you are seriously suggesting that ANY coach at ANY level above YMCA would have broken Vitaly Potapenko out for his first serious minutes in forever with 4 minutes to go in Game 5 of the playoffs against the defending champs...being a Monday morning quarterback is the easiest job in the world.
Yes, verily Ronnie Price = great young talent that ANYBODY would have played. I mean how could you not. Such silliness.
How can you be unrealistic enough to think not winning a title in 8 years is "failure"? Got news for you -- 27 of the 30 teams in the elague have failed right along with us. Doing it is not as easy as coming onto a messageboard and screaming about it. Especially when you do not have Shaq, Kobe, or Duncan.
Rule #1 of pompousness: make sure you know what the hell you are talking about, otherwise you end up looking foolish. The expansion draft was held after the 03-04 season, not 04-05. And yes, in 03-04 we were still very much in the championship hunt. Erik Daniels was still in college at the time, and barely slipped onto our roster as the 12th/13th man after camp in Oct. '04. About all you got right was that we should not have let Gerald go.
Indeed, Rick kept Kevin from the world! Such simplistic thinking will not get you far in life. Let's think a little deeper. So, you think that coaches of veteran franchises routinely bench quality veteran starters to throw struggling kids into the starting lineup? Or are you arguing for Kevin to get "magic" minutes, whereby somehow he gets to rack up starters' minutes while all the rest of the guys somehow continue getting theirs? Perhaps your obvious move, which you COMPLETELY suggested in Novemeber of course, was to bench Bonzi (our best player at the time) for Kevin, or bench 3 time All-Star Peja for Kevin? I mean OBVIOUSLY. Giving a guy 16-18 min a night is never enough for anyone to show anything. I mean, other than virtually ever bench player in the league of course.
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Wow, Brick your overall basketball analysis is average at best, I am wasting my time responding to your illogical views and theories. By the way check Gerald Wallaces history, his 1st season with charlotte was 2004-2005 and he was resigned for one year this offseason, and then reached new highs in 05-06. Wow who is looking foolish now? Yea also 8 years is plenty, like the Maloofs said they saw with the kings, and their Monarchs 1st hand defense wins championships. Why are people so afraid of change, that they let their emotions and sentimental feelings get the best of their better judgement? For you to argue Adelman was a coach who lacked defensive players that is completely off base, Adelman always thought offense 1st, and the Kings were built to win by outscoring their opponent. Look at the Kings offense and Defense for 8 years, and my views get very accurate, because they are backed by cold hard facts, not off based emotions and opinions.
Hey, well with that being said please point out the error in my stats, and Do I really have to do all the work for you, and research every little stat, I told you what to look for. I will not pull the Kings scoring average per season, and the points allowed per season. You can do that, and see for yourself my facts are correct. You are just mad, because I don't think like you, and agree with your opinions. You tend to attack people who do not follow in line with agreement of the consensus. Other people have noticed this to, it is free speach, no need to try to authoritate and belittle people, because they think differently and you are the moderator.
Lasty if my opinions are simple, then yours must be based on emotions, feelings, with no regard to stats and performance.
Lasty if my opinions are simple, then yours must be based on emotions, feelings, with no regard to stats and performance.
Oh, here we go...
I didn't say your opinions are simple. What I said was your views are simply (or merely) opinions. BIG difference.
I'm not going to exchange unpleasantries with you. Have a nice day. Post your facts and statistics to your heart's content.
Look at the replies. I'm not the only one who finds your arguments specious at best. Have fun...while it lasts.
P.S. I'm anxiously awaiting an in-depth response to EACH of the points Bricklayer has raised in his reply to you above.
I didn't say your opinions are simple. What I said was your views are simply (or merely) opinions. BIG difference.
I'm not going to exchange unpleasantries with you. Have a nice day. Post your facts and statistics to your heart's content.
Look at the replies. I'm not the only one who finds your arguments specious at best. Have fun...while it lasts.
P.S. I'm anxiously awaiting an in-depth response to EACH of the points Bricklayer has raised in his reply to you above.
I put my vote for I don't know (although I do care) after weighing both the thoughts of Petrie and the organization's official line and Rick's. I do think that ordinarily Rick deserved another chance to work with this line up but that a change may still ultimately prove to be the right thing. The public handling of this has been a complete fiasco and PR disaster so they better find the right guy for the job.
Yes, Gerald Wallace's first year as a Bobcat was AFTER the 2003-04 season, but the draft was made from the 2003-04 roster. There were rules to the draft and limits to who the team could protect (only 8 players). This was on a Kings team that included- Bibby, Christie, Divac, Jackson, Miller, Peja & Webber- which is 7/8 right there. I really liked Wallace and I wish we could have kept him, but I think he came at a bad time- he was drafted during the middle of our Championship run. I always thought he would be really good, and we're seeing that now. However, his problem still is staying healthy since he plays with such aggression it often leads to injuries with him- he had that problem here too.
Here is a link to the rules on the expansion draft: http://www.nba.com/bobcats/news/draft_central_expansion_rules_summary.html
I do think there is validity to saying our team has a bunch of weak defensive players. I wasn't at practice, so I don't know what Adelman really did. I think he had a strong offensive team and went with it. I don't think he threw defense out the door, but what did he really have to work with. Could he have done better? Yes. But I think the team needed to make a commitment with defensive players in order to have a defesive team (see Detroit Pistons). You said that the team was BUILT to win by outscoring their oponent. The GM builds the team, not Adelman. His job is to work with what he is given.
I for one am on the fence about the Adelman situation- I can see both sides of it. I am looking forward to the possibilities of the future, but I know what a great job Adelman can do. I think either way, things will probably work themselves out.
Here is a link to the rules on the expansion draft: http://www.nba.com/bobcats/news/draft_central_expansion_rules_summary.html
I do think there is validity to saying our team has a bunch of weak defensive players. I wasn't at practice, so I don't know what Adelman really did. I think he had a strong offensive team and went with it. I don't think he threw defense out the door, but what did he really have to work with. Could he have done better? Yes. But I think the team needed to make a commitment with defensive players in order to have a defesive team (see Detroit Pistons). You said that the team was BUILT to win by outscoring their oponent. The GM builds the team, not Adelman. His job is to work with what he is given.
I for one am on the fence about the Adelman situation- I can see both sides of it. I am looking forward to the possibilities of the future, but I know what a great job Adelman can do. I think either way, things will probably work themselves out.
Yeah, I get that a lot.
And now my befuddled friend, some cold hard facts for ya:
Kings Opposing FG% Over Adelman's 8 years:
'99 .446 21st
'00 .452 16th
'01 .432 7th (Christie, Bobby, Hedo arrive)
'02 .440 8th
'03 .420 1st (Jim Jackson, Keon Clark arrive)
'04 .454 25th (Jackson, Hedo, Pollard, Webb, Clark all gone)
'05 .459 24th
'06 .454 14th (and of course wiht the big split pre/post Artest)
THOSE are the "cold hard facts". Same coach every year. Yet wildly varying defensive results. How could that be? Unless maybe, just MAYBE, its the players on the floor. Unless maybe, just maybe if you give the coach defensive personnel, the defense magically gets better. Take it away, and it falls apart. That's a shocking hypothesis, I know.
And now my befuddled friend, some cold hard facts for ya:
Kings Opposing FG% Over Adelman's 8 years:
'99 .446 21st
'00 .452 16th
'01 .432 7th (Christie, Bobby, Hedo arrive)
'02 .440 8th
'03 .420 1st (Jim Jackson, Keon Clark arrive)
'04 .454 25th (Jackson, Hedo, Pollard, Webb, Clark all gone)
'05 .459 24th
'06 .454 14th (and of course wiht the big split pre/post Artest)
THOSE are the "cold hard facts". Same coach every year. Yet wildly varying defensive results. How could that be? Unless maybe, just MAYBE, its the players on the floor. Unless maybe, just maybe if you give the coach defensive personnel, the defense magically gets better. Take it away, and it falls apart. That's a shocking hypothesis, I know.
Bricklayer said:
Yeah, I get that a lot.
And now my befuddled friend, some cold hard facts for ya:
Kings Opposing FG% Over Adelman's 8 years:
'99 .446 21st
'00 .452 16th
'01 .432 7th (Christie, Bobby, Hedo arrive)
'02 .440 8th
'03 .420 1st (Jim Jackson, Keon Clark arrive)
'04 .454 25th (Jackson, Hedo, Pollard, Webb, Clark all gone)
'05 .459 24th
'06 .454 14th (and of course wiht the big split pre/post Artest)
THOSE are the "cold hard facts". Same coach every year. Yet wildly varying defensive results. How could that be? Unless maybe, just MAYBE, its the players on the floor. Unless maybe, just maybe if you give the coach defensive personnel, the defense magically gets better. Take it away, and it falls apart. That's a shocking hypothesis, I know.
And now my befuddled friend, some cold hard facts for ya:
Kings Opposing FG% Over Adelman's 8 years:
'99 .446 21st
'00 .452 16th
'01 .432 7th (Christie, Bobby, Hedo arrive)
'02 .440 8th
'03 .420 1st (Jim Jackson, Keon Clark arrive)
'04 .454 25th (Jackson, Hedo, Pollard, Webb, Clark all gone)
'05 .459 24th
'06 .454 14th (and of course wiht the big split pre/post Artest)
THOSE are the "cold hard facts". Same coach every year. Yet wildly varying defensive results. How could that be? Unless maybe, just MAYBE, its the players on the floor. Unless maybe, just maybe if you give the coach defensive personnel, the defense magically gets better. Take it away, and it falls apart. That's a shocking hypothesis, I know.
I think there are many reasons I picked no, but mostly because the friction between the owners and upper management has been frayed to the point of no return, unfortunately.
I would not mind seeing what else is out there in fact, look at Dallas. I mean, you never know. And for what it's worth I pray to the Basketball Gods that we DO NOT SIGN DON NELSON!!!!!!!!
I would not mind seeing what else is out there in fact, look at Dallas. I mean, you never know. And for what it's worth I pray to the Basketball Gods that we DO NOT SIGN DON NELSON!!!!!!!!
Our team has been pretty much the most injury prone team over the last 7 or so years. Do you chalk it up to how the rotation was used? Even Adelman said when he brought Wells back that he did too early, and played him too many minutes. Could this have been the difference between a 7th and 8th seed? Last year he brought back Jackson too early and he was out pretty much for the rest of the year. He also admitted there that he had brought him back too early. I have been a Kings fan since pretty much they came here, and I never remembered the team fighting through so many injuries as we have in the last 7 years.
How many times when a game is pretty much decided did we see Adelman keep his starters in until there was about 1-2 minutes left in the game rather than 6 or so which he could have pulled them.
Adelman never really trusted his bench past the 7th or 8th player. That's fine and dandy for the playoffs, but regular season is when the players "break down". Playing hard in the post season is what injures them after a year of too much playing time.
I run almost daily. I used to run about 30-35 minutes on the treadmill than after about a year or so my knee started giving me problems, and my shin splints would not go away. I was constantly taking pain meds so I can keep running. I ended up taking about 4 months off to heal myself.
About 3 years later now and I still run almost daily, but I run 24 minutes. Same routine, just less minutes. I have not had knee problems since I reduced my time after taking the 4 month rest. I have had only minor shin splint problems, but noting like they used to be.
Go back to pretty much all my Adelman posts and see that I have questioned his use of his starters, and bench players. I am not only coming up with this since we fired him. I really think this was why a lot of his players broke down. Not every player body is the same. We cant have 12 Bibbys on the floor at the same time.
How many times when a game is pretty much decided did we see Adelman keep his starters in until there was about 1-2 minutes left in the game rather than 6 or so which he could have pulled them.
Adelman never really trusted his bench past the 7th or 8th player. That's fine and dandy for the playoffs, but regular season is when the players "break down". Playing hard in the post season is what injures them after a year of too much playing time.
I run almost daily. I used to run about 30-35 minutes on the treadmill than after about a year or so my knee started giving me problems, and my shin splints would not go away. I was constantly taking pain meds so I can keep running. I ended up taking about 4 months off to heal myself.
About 3 years later now and I still run almost daily, but I run 24 minutes. Same routine, just less minutes. I have not had knee problems since I reduced my time after taking the 4 month rest. I have had only minor shin splint problems, but noting like they used to be.
Go back to pretty much all my Adelman posts and see that I have questioned his use of his starters, and bench players. I am not only coming up with this since we fired him. I really think this was why a lot of his players broke down. Not every player body is the same. We cant have 12 Bibbys on the floor at the same time.
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