Should Rick Adelman have been re-signed?
- Thread starter VF21
- Start date
It is not apparent that ron artest Brought the kings to the playoffs By himself, It is apparent that a Collective effort of meshing in the talents of a coach and player Relationship Together, Creating a Structured atmosphere and Chemistry Molding in a Coopertive atmosphere to Win Games on the Fly, Create offensive Rhthym and Structure on the Fly,All of this without Training camp or Productive Practice Time, Meshing in personalities on the Fly at the last minute Takes Mega Chemistry Between A Coach A player and It is Extremley difficult to do if Ron artest did all of this apperently Knowingly obviously By himself.
He's been our coach since I was 14 and I'm almost 23 now... so with that said it's a bit weird seeing him leave the organization. I do however hope to get a great coach, and with Petrie in control I'm sure that will happen. I was more suprised to see the rest of the coaches dismissed as well. I really liked Elston Turner... am I the only one that felt more for our assistant coaches? Don't get me wrong, I'm going to miss Aldeman but I'm suprised he's changing out all of our coaches that have been here for so many years.
I voted I don't know.
If you mean, should the Kings have re-signed Adelman this week? My answer is a reluctant no. The fractured relationship between him and the owners was too much to overcome, and I don't think it would have been worth it for him or the Kings to continue it.
If you mean, should Adelman have been treated differently over the last few years and wanted by the Maloofs so that their relationship was still good? My answer is a definite yes. Losing Adelman was a bad thing, and while I keep saying it was inevitable after this season, it didn't have to be this way and the Maloofs shouldn't have let this happen.
If you mean, should the Kings have re-signed Adelman this week? My answer is a reluctant no. The fractured relationship between him and the owners was too much to overcome, and I don't think it would have been worth it for him or the Kings to continue it.
If you mean, should Adelman have been treated differently over the last few years and wanted by the Maloofs so that their relationship was still good? My answer is a definite yes. Losing Adelman was a bad thing, and while I keep saying it was inevitable after this season, it didn't have to be this way and the Maloofs shouldn't have let this happen.
Really, is that what happened? Would we even be having this conversation or topic right now, if Ron Artest never came, and the trade never happened? The answer would be no, because we wouldn't of made the playoffs, and people would be happy Rick is gone. What did Rick change all of the sudden that led us to the playoffs, were we even talking about playoffs b4 Artest arrived? Who guaranteed and willed us to the playoffs, was it Adelman?Bibby?Miller? the answere is no to all 3 it was Artest who kicked everybodys butt in shape and redefined how we played ball in Sac Town. It takes a team to succeed, but if a team is filled with a bunch of passive-aggressive, unassuming personalities who is going to lead and will it in the right direction? It takes a strong personality, and that is what Ron has and brings, and he is responsible for taking us to the playoffs, not the coach that nobody listened to up until Artest arrived.
We made one trade, and we brought our pts allowed per/gm from 100 down to 94/gm. We allowed them to shoot 46% b4 he arrived, and at one point was top 3 in league for defensive fg%. So with those stats, why did they only occur after Artest came? He played with heart, passion, desire, and eventually all the Kings said damn he plays so hard maybe we should do that also. It became contagious, and eventually adopted that hard nosed physical style of play, but the Key is Artest was the Catalyst. Don't be blinded by the love for chokie coachie, Artest was the reason.
We made one trade, and we brought our pts allowed per/gm from 100 down to 94/gm. We allowed them to shoot 46% b4 he arrived, and at one point was top 3 in league for defensive fg%. So with those stats, why did they only occur after Artest came? He played with heart, passion, desire, and eventually all the Kings said damn he plays so hard maybe we should do that also. It became contagious, and eventually adopted that hard nosed physical style of play, but the Key is Artest was the Catalyst. Don't be blinded by the love for chokie coachie, Artest was the reason.
And now answer me this Captain Obvious -- how many other coaches has Ron performed that well under? How many other coaches has Ron been happy and sane under? Ron needed space and confidence from his coach. He got it, and so he performed. Very few coaches have that gift -- most have to make it about themselves.
He was an All Star and Defensive player of the year in Indiana, but yea I agree he didn't get the freedom and space that adelman allows, but freedom and space relates to offense, which Ron didn't do that well in with the Kings as evidenced by the fact he shot like 41% here, and 46% there. The defensive turnaround Rick Adelman had nothing to do with, Ron always knew how to play D, and nobody on Sacramento outside of Bonzi even had a clue how to play, or in this case coach.
There was alot of egos that Ron had to contest with in Indiana. He had Larry, Rick, and lastly team appointed leader Jermaine Oneal, who seemed threatened by Ron Artest sharing the low block with him. He had to deal with alot of politics, which he doesn't have to in Sacramento. Why did Rick have reservations upon Artest arriving? It was the Maloofs who welcomed Ron in, and made him feel well come, Rick didn't even want Artest, he prejudged him based on his past. Then he actually met Ron, and saw how he played and all that changed
The question becomes how many coaches can coach defense without defensive players?
Larry Brown can't.
Could Gregg Popovich? If you took away Tim Duncan and Bruce Bowen and gave him Brad Miller and Peja Stojakovic instead, what would happen to that D?
You give Rick Adelman top defensive players, and his teams magcially become top defensive teams. You give him softies who can't jump over a dollar bill, and magically they do not.
Larry Brown can't.
Could Gregg Popovich? If you took away Tim Duncan and Bruce Bowen and gave him Brad Miller and Peja Stojakovic instead, what would happen to that D?
You give Rick Adelman top defensive players, and his teams magcially become top defensive teams. You give him softies who can't jump over a dollar bill, and magically they do not.
Why didn't skinner ever play? Why did potopko never play in the spurs series, when last year he did very well against duncan while with seattle? Why did jason hart get to start over Ronnie price all year, when he showed next to nothing? Even when Ricks does have players who can play some D, he will not play them, bc he thinks of offense oriented players 1st. Tony Massenburg also, never played, and won a championship last year.
Gerald Wallace is 23 yrs old averages 16pts-close to 8rbs-shoots 54%, and averages like over 2stl and blocks a game. He had that potential this whole time and Rick never gave him the time of day, let him rot on the bench. He gets playing time and this is what he does. He does not develop young talent, Kevin only got playing time bc bonzi got hurt. That more than anything pisses me off about our ex coach. Worst of all we gave Gerald Away for nothing, zipp nadda.
Gerald Wallace is 23 yrs old averages 16pts-close to 8rbs-shoots 54%, and averages like over 2stl and blocks a game. He had that potential this whole time and Rick never gave him the time of day, let him rot on the bench. He gets playing time and this is what he does. He does not develop young talent, Kevin only got playing time bc bonzi got hurt. That more than anything pisses me off about our ex coach. Worst of all we gave Gerald Away for nothing, zipp nadda.
i am beginning to think that the wallace incident is getting out of hand. the guy is averaging those numbers on one of the worst teams in the league. he was a bench player on a contender before. sure, he had the hustle/energy type of play and that came in handy every then and thence (really, how do you convert "now and then" to past?); but those kinds of players take a loooong time to establish a solid spot in the rotation if the team is doing just fine on the offensive end.
Only way a player is going to develop is playing time. Look at Geralds playing time in Sac, and his playing time in Charlotte it is a night and day difference. Kevin didn't develop until he got consistent playing time, right? Well he only got that, bc Bonzi got hurt. Gerald put up a double double in one half a couple seasons ago against the Mavs, he showed potential then, but did he ever get more than 5-8 mins a game? Nope, and that is why is developing into a good player somewhere else, instead of in Sac Town.
I'm with you on everything you say here. Those are my biggest pet peeves with Rick Adelman. It's why he should've been let go 2-3yrs ago. Peja was the ONLY young player who developed under Adelman. For whatever reason, Adelman is hell-bent on sticking with established veteran guys regardless of the circumstance. But you can't rely on Petrie to pull off magic trades to infuse new veteran players year after year (just because the coach is incapable of developing any youngsters). Cuz all teams with a continuity of success should continue to develop new young talent all the time. Just like Dallas has done with Howard and Harris. Just like Phoenix with Barbosa and Diaw. With Adelman, we can never have that.
It wasn't a trade, we didn't give him away for nothing. We gave him away for the right to keep the core of the team intact. In retrospect and knowing what we know now - that we wanted to get out of Webber's contract and what we eventually got for it - maybe we should have protected Gerald and left Webb unprotected. I'd love to see some of your reactions to that one though. We wouldn't be having the Adelman debate though since we would have probably missed the playoffs the past 2 seasons if we had done that.
But let's be honest, Gerald was inconsistent here and it hurt us at times. We were contending for a championship and home court and every game mattered, we could not afford to play him in crucial stretches to let him develop to max potential. The Bobcats are an expansion club who have the luxury of low expectations their first 2-3 seasons and developing talent as they grow into a team.
But let's be honest, Gerald was inconsistent here and it hurt us at times. We were contending for a championship and home court and every game mattered, we could not afford to play him in crucial stretches to let him develop to max potential. The Bobcats are an expansion club who have the luxury of low expectations their first 2-3 seasons and developing talent as they grow into a team.
When Wallace was here he was always nicked up w/ BS injuries and didn't work overly hard in practice or the offseason. Going to the Bobcats was apparently a big wake-up call, since it's only one step from being out of the league. Contrast Wallace's development w/ Martin's in just one offseason. That offseason is what earned him all those minutes when Bonzi went down. If they weren't confident in Kevin they would have signed a free agent vet (like Jim Jackson?) as soon as it became apparent that Bonzi's stay on the IR would be extensive.
But I don't think that's true. Wallace was productive with the Kings every time someone else got hurt and he was given extended minutes. He'd replace an injured starter one game and give you something like 14pts, 8rbs, 3st in 30minutes one night. And then Adelman would inexplicably sit him on the bench for the next few games.
And when Adelman could've given valuable off-the-bench minutes to Wallace, he instead opted to give them to short-term dogs like Massenburg.
I'm not surprised at all that Wallace has done so well in Charlotte. And regardless of what you might say about them being an expansion team, wouldn't we all love to have him in the Kings uni right about now?
The Kings could've protected Wallace instead of, say, Songaila. But Adelman obviously didn't think highly of Wallace. No wonder... Adelman never gave him a fair shot.
And not protecting Wallace was certainly on Adelman (not Petrie... Petrie was the one who had the eyes to draft him in the first place; it's not Petrie's fault that Adelman never played him)
And when Adelman could've given valuable off-the-bench minutes to Wallace, he instead opted to give them to short-term dogs like Massenburg.
I'm not surprised at all that Wallace has done so well in Charlotte. And regardless of what you might say about them being an expansion team, wouldn't we all love to have him in the Kings uni right about now?
The Kings could've protected Wallace instead of, say, Songaila. But Adelman obviously didn't think highly of Wallace. No wonder... Adelman never gave him a fair shot.
And not protecting Wallace was certainly on Adelman (not Petrie... Petrie was the one who had the eyes to draft him in the first place; it's not Petrie's fault that Adelman never played him)
Don't be blinded by a Time Bomb waiting to go off, A individual who has Delusions of grandeur about his Total game,A fool who you should be careful to follow. He Brought in a Breath of Fresh air, That can turn into a high Degree of Anthrax inhalation of you don't be careful with what you are Dealing with.
Defensively he helped the kings in a Area that they Badly needed teh energy to becoming Better and winning more Games. But i tell you this much if you think it wasn't because of the Freedom that Adleman encourages with his style of Coaching and system of basketball then you may suffer the Same Delusional mentality that Big Ron Ron sufffers from. The Dude needs a 24 hr psychologist to coach his Erratic Behaviour, He needs constant attention , The type of Attention that says your the Man Ron, Your like kobe bryant and Allen iverson, You are the leader. The coaching staff were Briefed on what type of Dude Ron Ron is and they were also Briefed on how he wanted more field goal attempts and wanted the Basket ball more in his Hands. He was blessed momentarily with the right basketball situation that fit him and his alter Ego's. Rick Adleman was the perfect coach for these personalities that Ron Ron has in his psychological makeup as a Basketball player.
Rick Carlise wasn't going to ever give Ron Ron that Green light and open offensive freedom to Be Mcrgady or Kobe Bryant like, This is what Ron wanted, He couldn't stand the stiff play calling and disciplined style of Offense, He wanted out because it was boring to him to not have the ball in his hands and not being able to create like Jordan and Bryant and the other Great 1 on 1 players in the game.He comes to Sacramneto, under a coach who gives freedom and open offense, Rick sits down with the moron and Tells him and his alter ego's that he knows he can play Defense, But he wants to make his Butt a better player all around particularly on the offensive End of the floor, Helping him to be a intaitor and distributer, rather than a Dump it down Brute post up player, Which he was Regulated in doing in Indiana.
This change of Scenary helped Ron and His various mood swings Become productive citizens of the basketball community and inspired him to change his out look and take on the open Responsibilties that he so craved being confined and Restricted of doing in Indiana. This couldn't have been accomplished with a Great popovich or larry Brown, Maybe a phil jackson but Defintely a Rick adleman Because of the type of Coach that he is.
Rick allowed Ron to Basically Dribble the shot clock off like a Kobe Bryant or allen iverson, He allowed him to shoot the ball through triple teams, Things that were forbidden to do in Indiana, But things that Ron artest and his mood Swings craved so Dearly, he found that chance in doing under adleman.
We can Trick ourselves into thinking that Rick played no Difference in the comback of the season if we want to, But the little intangible things will show up when Ron Ron goes Ballistic with a PJ or some other Defensive minded Guru strcict head coach come in here and Tells Ron, I don't want you going 1 on 5 anymore or Your not a point guard Ron, you don't have the same Game that kobe Bryant and McGrady have, Your Greastest weapon Ron Ron is your post up game, We don't want anymore of you Dribbling the Basketball like a Guard, We Run it this way in this system Ron. Watch what you will see the choker Head case Ron Ron come bacl alive, He isn't going to like the structure, Rick was the perfect coach for this type of Behaviour.
downplaying his recent shooting slump -- declaring that bad shots he takes should be shrugged off as if "Kobe or Tim Duncan or Michael Jordan" took them
I'm so demanding of the ball. It's not my fault," he said. "Every time somebody is on me it's a mismatch. It messes up the offense. I like Coach (Carlisle) as a person, but I don't like playing for Coach. I like my team, though."
The Pacers run a structured offense in which Carlisle calls out most plays. That frustrates Artest, who has complained about the system in the past.
Artest seeks a system in which he can score more, which would lead to a bigger contract when his expires in 2008. He has a player option for $8.5 million for the 2008-09 season.
"Here I don't think I'm going to have a chance to maximize my opportunity for my potential," he said. "When I first got here, all I wanted to do was play defense. I never really cared about offense, but what I see is players like Kobe (Bryant), Tracy (McGrady), (Gilbert) Arenas and Jermaine (O'Neal) getting the opportunity to maximize their potential on the court and to get paid. I'm out of my character a little bit here.
"I don't think I'm going to maximize my opportunity just playing defense. I have to show I'm one of the premier players on offense on the wing. So when it's that time, there's no question what type of player I am."
He says it all there, He can play Defense and Bring that Defensive intensity to any team that he is apart of, But his Frustration and mood Swings had to do allot with the system and How he views himself as a player, He feels he's on the level offensively like kobe and others, He just doesn't want to play Defense and post up in a structured flow. Pj or whoever you may think is the Better coach will have Ron right back To the style of play he Dreaded playing, This can be something to Really pay attention to.
Truthfully his game isn't built like a kobe Bryant or McGrady
Defensively he helped the kings in a Area that they Badly needed teh energy to becoming Better and winning more Games. But i tell you this much if you think it wasn't because of the Freedom that Adleman encourages with his style of Coaching and system of basketball then you may suffer the Same Delusional mentality that Big Ron Ron sufffers from. The Dude needs a 24 hr psychologist to coach his Erratic Behaviour, He needs constant attention , The type of Attention that says your the Man Ron, Your like kobe bryant and Allen iverson, You are the leader. The coaching staff were Briefed on what type of Dude Ron Ron is and they were also Briefed on how he wanted more field goal attempts and wanted the Basket ball more in his Hands. He was blessed momentarily with the right basketball situation that fit him and his alter Ego's. Rick Adleman was the perfect coach for these personalities that Ron Ron has in his psychological makeup as a Basketball player.
Rick Carlise wasn't going to ever give Ron Ron that Green light and open offensive freedom to Be Mcrgady or Kobe Bryant like, This is what Ron wanted, He couldn't stand the stiff play calling and disciplined style of Offense, He wanted out because it was boring to him to not have the ball in his hands and not being able to create like Jordan and Bryant and the other Great 1 on 1 players in the game.He comes to Sacramneto, under a coach who gives freedom and open offense, Rick sits down with the moron and Tells him and his alter ego's that he knows he can play Defense, But he wants to make his Butt a better player all around particularly on the offensive End of the floor, Helping him to be a intaitor and distributer, rather than a Dump it down Brute post up player, Which he was Regulated in doing in Indiana.
This change of Scenary helped Ron and His various mood swings Become productive citizens of the basketball community and inspired him to change his out look and take on the open Responsibilties that he so craved being confined and Restricted of doing in Indiana. This couldn't have been accomplished with a Great popovich or larry Brown, Maybe a phil jackson but Defintely a Rick adleman Because of the type of Coach that he is.
Rick allowed Ron to Basically Dribble the shot clock off like a Kobe Bryant or allen iverson, He allowed him to shoot the ball through triple teams, Things that were forbidden to do in Indiana, But things that Ron artest and his mood Swings craved so Dearly, he found that chance in doing under adleman.
We can Trick ourselves into thinking that Rick played no Difference in the comback of the season if we want to, But the little intangible things will show up when Ron Ron goes Ballistic with a PJ or some other Defensive minded Guru strcict head coach come in here and Tells Ron, I don't want you going 1 on 5 anymore or Your not a point guard Ron, you don't have the same Game that kobe Bryant and McGrady have, Your Greastest weapon Ron Ron is your post up game, We don't want anymore of you Dribbling the Basketball like a Guard, We Run it this way in this system Ron. Watch what you will see the choker Head case Ron Ron come bacl alive, He isn't going to like the structure, Rick was the perfect coach for this type of Behaviour.
downplaying his recent shooting slump -- declaring that bad shots he takes should be shrugged off as if "Kobe or Tim Duncan or Michael Jordan" took them
I'm so demanding of the ball. It's not my fault," he said. "Every time somebody is on me it's a mismatch. It messes up the offense. I like Coach (Carlisle) as a person, but I don't like playing for Coach. I like my team, though."
The Pacers run a structured offense in which Carlisle calls out most plays. That frustrates Artest, who has complained about the system in the past.
Artest seeks a system in which he can score more, which would lead to a bigger contract when his expires in 2008. He has a player option for $8.5 million for the 2008-09 season.
"Here I don't think I'm going to have a chance to maximize my opportunity for my potential," he said. "When I first got here, all I wanted to do was play defense. I never really cared about offense, but what I see is players like Kobe (Bryant), Tracy (McGrady), (Gilbert) Arenas and Jermaine (O'Neal) getting the opportunity to maximize their potential on the court and to get paid. I'm out of my character a little bit here.
"I don't think I'm going to maximize my opportunity just playing defense. I have to show I'm one of the premier players on offense on the wing. So when it's that time, there's no question what type of player I am."
He says it all there, He can play Defense and Bring that Defensive intensity to any team that he is apart of, But his Frustration and mood Swings had to do allot with the system and How he views himself as a player, He feels he's on the level offensively like kobe and others, He just doesn't want to play Defense and post up in a structured flow. Pj or whoever you may think is the Better coach will have Ron right back To the style of play he Dreaded playing, This can be something to Really pay attention to.
Truthfully his game isn't built like a kobe Bryant or McGrady