Big Cuz 15
All-Star
too early. unlike trobbed and jimmer. both were undersized. one happened to rely on his 'motor' and the other shooting w/o any ability to get his own shot.
Second Preseason Game v. Warriors 10/6
- Thread starter Bricklayer
- Start date
Sac.1989
Starter
douby lit up the warriors for 30 once. Wishful thinking perhaps
Bruiser62906
Prospect
Ill say this about papa, maybe we should have left him in Greece for a couple years. The real shame is wasting his rookie control years while he looks like a conplete non-contributer (putting it nicely).
Entity
Hall of Famer
And papa has shown less than both and he isn't undersized. He is that tall guy ppl said hey dude you should play basketball cause you're tall. If he was 2nd rounder or u drafted which he should have been I wouldn't care but geez. I mean stash him back in euro league or Reno I guess for three years and hope. But he has no business even on our preseason roster
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sactownfan
Guest
Here's the thing about papa... he's played professionally since he was 14 and at the highest level available to him unlike other euro picks. This game here is different it's gonna take awhile. Brandon Ingram went 0-5 his first game against us.. are lakers fans panicking? No ... give the guy a year or so... jeez
He might be a bust but it's waaaay to soon to know
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nebs
Starter
Papagiannis looking completely lost is concerning. But not because he was supposed to plug a hole or be counted on in any way this season. No, just simply because he was drafted using a late lottery pick and has the early signs of being a bust. But he isn't needed now and he's got three seasons to show something.
With a 15 man roster two guys will not be active each game. Early on I'm guessing that's Papagiannis and either Labissiere or Richardson.
So while the rookies' struggles are a concern, they don't need to contribute for the team to succeed in the short term.
And so to me the focus should be on the fact that the Kings main rotation guys matched or slightly outplayed the Warriors' main rotation guys. And that was without Collison and Casspi and with Gay & Afflalo having off nights.
It's preseason and a single game so it doesn't mean much at all but it's a hell of a lot better than our team getting blown out by the Dubs like the Clippers did.
Joerger's schemes, a regular season ready Boogie and some very solid veteran signings have things looking somewhat promising.
If the rookies improve to the point that coach has to find minutes for one or more of them that's just gravy, at least for this season.
How about Barnes, Temple & McLemore tonight?
I'm trying hard not to get my hopes up but this is starting to look like a solid squad.
With a 15 man roster two guys will not be active each game. Early on I'm guessing that's Papagiannis and either Labissiere or Richardson.
So while the rookies' struggles are a concern, they don't need to contribute for the team to succeed in the short term.
And so to me the focus should be on the fact that the Kings main rotation guys matched or slightly outplayed the Warriors' main rotation guys. And that was without Collison and Casspi and with Gay & Afflalo having off nights.
It's preseason and a single game so it doesn't mean much at all but it's a hell of a lot better than our team getting blown out by the Dubs like the Clippers did.
Joerger's schemes, a regular season ready Boogie and some very solid veteran signings have things looking somewhat promising.
If the rookies improve to the point that coach has to find minutes for one or more of them that's just gravy, at least for this season.
How about Barnes, Temple & McLemore tonight?
I'm trying hard not to get my hopes up but this is starting to look like a solid squad.
itzcoatl
Bench
I'll leave it to the contract gurus for the definitive word, but this doesnt seem like a problem at all. Take Bogdanovich for example. My understanding is that next year he has a big incentive to come over because he is no longer required to be under thr rookie scale. So, I imagine if Papa got stashed in Greece, his rookie scale contract requirement would eventually expire too. In other words, a draftee isn't bound to the rookie scale indefinitely.
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sactownfan
Guest
I corrected it. Haha using the phone tonightYes, he might be a busy. Busy sucking at basketball.
Bruiser62906
Prospect
Hmm so had he continued to be "unimpressive" we could have absolved ourselves completely lol. Well here's to hoping he can at least replace Kofus in a couple years. On the positive side, the regular rotation has certainly impressed me (relative to expectations). Im feeling more and more confident in my 45 win prediction
Kingsfan23
All-Star
The bigger issue with Papa and now possibly WCS at 6 (subjective, if he continues to look how he has recently) is that I'm personally not yet confident with Vlade's personnel acumen, when you put it with the Philly trade, letting Seth go for cheap etc.
There were question marks in installing a former player without real experience in the FO, and as a fan I can't be too sure of future personnel moves by him as of right this moment
There were question marks in installing a former player without real experience in the FO, and as a fan I can't be too sure of future personnel moves by him as of right this moment
ockingsfan
Starter
Calm down. Papa played like 5 minutes tonight in his second pre-season game ever.
Give him 2-3 years to develop. Big men, especially from Europe usually take a few years to get used to the NBA speed.
Stash him in Reno for a year and get him some playing time and I think he will be at least a serviceable big off the bench, a Kofous type player in a couple of years.
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lwc
Starter
Remember when you do these evaluations to include Bogdanovic in your evaluations. Vlade sought out a trade to pull him in for next season. He counts towards Vlade's talent evaluations. Also, shedding the early pick and Marco to get 3 1st rounders and Bogdanovic.
I'm not sure how much of this is Vlade and how much in Catanella but the Marco trade was brilliant and moving down from 8 to get 13, 28 and Bogdanovic looked really crafty especially considering who was on the board at 8. If Divac had grabbed Baldwin instead of Papagiannis I think I would have been totally happy on draft night.
We'll see.
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I'm just happy that our main rotation players wound up finishing ahead of their main rotation players. Their starters were about as efficient as it gets and we stayed with them stride for stride. Barnes and Temple may not have wound up with good shooting numbers but they did some serious work off the bench and that's what made the difference in this one. Seemed like every time we would drop down by 5 or 6, you'd all the sudden see "Barnes steal, Temple 3. Barnes steal, Barnes layup" and we would be right back in it.
ElRey
Starter
Why are we declaring all our rookies a bust 2 games into the preseason?! Nonsense. At least give them a couple years. Don't forget that if we do well this year , we won't have a draft pick next year so these rookies will be our rookies again next year. Just think of them as two year projects.
The team is looking promising. Look at the big picture and the forest before the trees.
The team is looking promising. Look at the big picture and the forest before the trees.
I would've been completely fine with Baldwin/Richardson/Skal...or maybe even Baldwin/Papa/Skal....
We'd at least know there's 1 player who could play some minutes for the team this year. Baldwin could also be a potential franchise PG.
Instead, now we have 3 1st round picks trying to fight for time in Reno. Not sure when this is the last time to happen for any team with 3 1st rounders.. Richardson might be the most NBA ready out of that group. It seems like his shot selection has gotten a lot better through the looks of SL. However, he'll need to bulk up. His frame is really small, and his lack of lateral quickness/athleticism will kill him on defense. Since Richardson doesn't rely on his quickness for offense anyways, I think 225/230lbs would be a good frame for him.
King Baller
All-Star
Sacramento Kings 1990 4 first round Draft Picks - Lionel Simmons, Travis Mays, Duane Causwell and Anthony Bonner. Then they Chose Bimbo Coles in the 2nd round.
I think Baldwin's ceiling is as a George Hill type player. He just has too many holes in his game for me to ever see him as a franchise PG or even anything more than a fringe starter/solid to good backup combo guard. But what he does well would have fit what Joerger looks to be doing and his weaknesses largely would have been hidden by the scheme and the ball dominance of Cousins, Gay and to a lesser extent Afflalo.
biltalent
Starter
I was as high on Baldwin as anyone but lets not get ahead of ourselves here. In fact I said I would take him at #8 but he was not good in summer League and had only a couple good pre season minutes so far. There were reportedly red flags regarding his character pre draft as well which caused him to slip (same goes for Luwawu by the way)
I think Mario Chalmers would be an interesting comp for his middle line. It'll really come down to the Grizzlies' development.
I think Baldwin can be a franchise PG. He has the size, length, athleticism, and shooting. He'll need to improve on his ball handling and facilitating, but he already has the great foundation you're looking for. It's really all there for him. I do remember Baldwin getting cursed out by his coach after clapping sarcastically towards the opponents after the game. Don't remember a lot of red flags about him. I do remember some about Luwawu and his attitude though.
Baldwin has some attitude to him, sometimes looking like arrogance. But I don't think he'll ever be a behavior issue.
I don't want to sound negative on Baldwin because he was a guy I really liked as a prospect but he's a guy that has a lot of tools on paper but when you watch him it just doesn't come together. Good shooter, good defender when locked in, solid rebounder and an improving passer/playmaker who usually makes good decisions.
But for all his tools, he struggles to get to the basket (some of that is his high dribble and lack of advanced ballhandling) but he also just doesn't have a lot of burst or wiggle to him. And while athletic, he's a poor finisher.
But the biggest thing for me was that in watching him he would too often disappear for long stretches on both ends. Looking passive on offense and losing concentration on defense. When I watched Kris Dunn there were a lot of times that he didn't look good. Out of control, trying passes that had no chance, getting tunnel vision etc, but I always knew he was on the floor. I didn't feel that with Baldwin. Sometimes I'd be trying to focus on him specifically during games and I'd still lose track of him at times because he just isn't always there.
I like Baldwin and I think he's got great tools and can play an important role but I don't see stardom with him at all. I've been wrong plenty in the past so we'll see, but I'll be surprised if he ends up being a high level player.
jcwkings
All-Star
Also don't forget that rookies usually are played alongside your vets or more experienced players. So far we have only seen our three rookies play together with a journeymen and a role player. I'm sure Skal would look better playing with Cuz, Rudy, Afflalo, Collison for example. Not usual to have three first round pick rookies on one team.
Lots of talk on here about the rookies.....seems like we should be excited about the possibilities here with the new rotations, players and coaching staff.......along with defense. We are in a position where we are not relying on rookies to step in and immediately contribute before they are ready to handle a big role. Kind of like what the Spurs do and other such teams. I've got zero expectations from the rookies this year.
Blob
Starter
worse than jimmer? ouch!
Livinthedream
All-Star
Nope. There has to be a scapegoat each season. Rookies are fair game.
Yes, the rookies aren't a big deal since we are VERY deep this year and I think it might have an impact in the win column.
In almost every position there atleast 3 decent guys that can fill the role, if we assume that Papa and Malachi will go the DL than our options are:
PG: DC/Ty/Temple
SG: AA/Ben/Temple
SF: Rudy/Casspi/Barnes
PF: WCS/Tolliver/Gay/Casspi/Barnes/Skal
C: DMC/KK/WCS/Skal
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