Same old story for Jimmer...

[VF21]

 

[GaVi]

I'm asking you to take a deep breath and take the chip off your shoulder. If you continue to act like a troll, tossing insults and demeaning comments around, you're only going to accomplish what trolls set out to do. Is that really why you chose to finally register?

I'm tossing out insults and demeaning comments? You're the only one using the label of troll. You've used it on a couple occasions already. Will I accomplish what I've set out to do? To put on full display some of the ingrained faulty logic of some of the King's fans here? I certainly hope so.

You're allowed to use any stats you like. Just don't expect people to blindly accept them without question. This ain't our first rodeo.

Ditto. When people use detrimental and unfounded gotcha labels like "unathletic" or "poor handler" I'm making sure they're going to back it up with facts which are hard to find around here when it comes to Jimmer. If you don't like that, too bad, I'm going to call you on it anyway.

On that point, I actually agree. I want to see EACH player get a fair shot, a new beginning, a chance to prove he's worth keeping around. I just personally don't see the need to build up one player at the expense of another. You weren't around during the infamous Peja v. Webber years. Those of us who were learned, for the most part, that there's no way to win in an argument like that and it just creates hostility amongst the fan base.

So a player who has had a micro-fraction of minutes over the years compared to other players on this team is suddenly expending the others? That's some backwards logic there.

I may not change many minds, but win an argument? Sure, that's easy.

 

[GaVi]

Just for the hell of it, I'd like to point out that Larry Bird wasn't very athletic either. Of course, he was 6'9", but I clearly remember all the criticisms connected to him coming out of college. Magic Johnson wasn't a great athlete as well. Here's the thing, if your just an average athlete, and that's where I put Jimmer, then you have to have skills and BBIQ that more than make up for the lack of athleticism. I like Jimmer! As I said in another post, I think I saw every game he played at BYU in his last two years. He, at the moment has one great skill. He can shoot the rock. And until McLemore arrived, he was hands down the best 3 pt shooter on the team, and he managed to do so without ever being able to get into a consistent flow, due to not getting regular playing time.

That said, he was lacking in areas of need. Especially his handle, which to be honest with you, I thought would be adequate enough for the NBA based on what I saw at BYU. He had trouble with backcourt pressure. However, the Kings did little to help him bring the ball up. Does anyone remember Webber, and later Miller screening Bibby while he brought the ball up the court. So Ok, its apparent to me at least, that Jimmer has improved his handle. He's also shown better BBIQ in knowing when to drive and when not to. He's done a little creating off the dribble for himself, and others. Nothing fancy, but its an improvement. However, I would be very reluctant to put him in the backcourt with IT. Thats going just a little too small for me. I can see Jimmer in the backcourt with Vasquez. Obviously Malone pictured that idea as well since he started them together in one of the games. If I remember correctly, that worked fairly well.

Where I agree with our emotional new poster is that there seems to be a little bit of a double standard when it comes to Jimmer. Few mention his good games once their logged into history, and few remember the bad games that either Thornton or IT have had. Both Thornton and IT get some slack, because their both so called "Proven Players", and Jimmers accomplishments are discarded as nothing more than a small sampling, and therefore not credible enough to make a judgement on. Now I'm generalizing here, so please don't take offense. I think its fair to say that Jimmer was drafted into a big giant mess of an organization that had little in the way of resources for player development. I never felt that Jimmer would be the same player in the NBA that he was at BYU. I doubt he did. But I did feel that he could become a valuable piece on a good team. I suspect that if he had been drafted by the Spurs, that by this time there would be those on the forum trying to figure out how we could trade for him.

VF21 stated that if he's good enough, then he'll earn his way into the rotation. Not in those exact words, but that's the gist of it. And for the most part, I agree with that statement. I hope that the coaching staff is giving him equal consideration, and the fact that they gave him serious minutes in that one game, seems to validate that they are. So I suggest we wait and see what transpires, and if your a big Jimmer fan, just don't read posts that infuriate you. A post is just someone's opinion, its not a congressional law. Cream usually rises to the top, so lets give it a chance. Couldn't end without at least one metaphor.

Agreed.

 

[treach1976]

Let me just speak up as a fan of basketball that started watching the kings because of Jimmer. Kings aren't my favorite team... I'm a loyal Mavs fan, but I'll still root for them if/when Jimmer is traded (unless playing against the Mavs - still bitter about the 02-03 playoffs!)

I realllllly get annoyed by the Jimmer fans of the rabid variety that can't hold their tongues and have to pick fights. Even if they don't think their statements are outlandish, they never get any ground by making them and actually do Jimmer a disservice in my opinion. If you really cared about his development (and he HAS developed and needs to continue to develop) you would avoid all of this crap. A lot of people read this forum (much more than those who respond) and when a thread like this ends up dominating a day's conversation it helps form national opinion. When you get in a "can't win" fight against people that know a heck of a lot more about the team than you do, a lot of counter arguments get generated, and more extreme views in the opposite direction are taken.

The one thing that EVERYONE agrees on was that Smart was bad for the team and stunted player growth (Jimmer included). Smart is gone, Malone is here. I'm excited to see if Jimmer can prove himself. It's his job to win, and those 3 pointers need to keep falling.

Please, Kingsfans members, don't judge a large pro-jimmer fanbase by the really annoying fanboys that jump on here and waste your time. Ignore them.

I've made pro-Jimmer comments here before, but I try to provide insight void of emotion and about other kings players and concerns. I tend to think that Jimmer has improved a lot and he might be ready for the 2nd or 3rd guy (not just guard) off the bench role which could one day get him ready to be a starter, but that's yet to be proved by him... (Brick and others might disagree vehemently, but that's what healthy debate is about).

 

[nickmcclure]

Are you in fact Jimmer himself letting off some steam?
I am rooting for dude but c'mon you're so far off base you're flirting with AWOL status.
Let's analyze your rant, shall we?:

Improves every aspect of his game...benched.

Admittedly he looks to have improved his court vision, but you've personally seen improvement in EVERY aspect of his game? Were we watching the same preseason?

Explodes in previous game...benched.

Yes he played well against a weak team...in preseason...once. Let's start him?
Let's see what Isaiah Thomas did the last time he played the Suns (In the regular season BTW)
27 PTS, 5 RBS, 6 AST, 5 STS

Is much better than MT...benched.

You think he's better than this guy?

he's better in almost every statistical category, per game or per 36

Is the best shooter and playmaker on the team...benched.

You're saying two very, very different things;
Shooter? Arguably...(McLemore and Thornton?)
Playmaker? Absolutely not. He can't create his own shot.

Jimmer's ball handling? Much improved and starting PG material without question...no opportunity to shine.

Nope, not even close. IT, Ray and MT have more in the bag than Jimmer. He doesn't have the handles to play PG in the NBA, sorry. We've seen him for two years straight get trapped at half court and luckily his escape passes have kept him from tons of TO's. If he wants minutes on this team it'll likely be at the two where homeboy will be open from 3 which is his strength.

Shooting? Please.

I hear that.

Defense? Defense is a team game and he's no worse than these other defensive scrubs.

"Defense?" Indeed. You're saying his lack of D will be made up for by the other great defenders we have? Yeah right, we're weak enough at D as it is. In today's game of hyper athletic guards we cannot afford to let Jimmer attempt to guard Westbrook/Irving/Wall for 30+ minutes a night.

Playmaking? Excellent, but never given the reigns.

Nope, see above.

MT pouts, can't make plays for others and throws up bricks, but will he get Jimmer's minutes? Probably.

Random unfounded diss to MT.
He had every right to "pout" last season as he was pushed to a bench role and only started 8 games.

Give the man a real opportunity for crying out loud.

Look,
Jimmer is a pretty good shooter. He also seems like a cool dude who's willing to play team basketball.
That's awesome and we here at KF want him to succeed.
The problem is that we're an NBA franchise desperately trying to get some damn W's and we have some other pieces that are better at the moment. Unfortunately he's the 3rd option at both PG and SG. (Maybe even 4th at PG) I hope Jimmer bounces back this season and secures some minutes off the bench but you are exaggerating his talent.

-Sincerly,
Everyone on KF.com

 

[VF21]

I'm tossing out insults and demeaning comments? You're the only one using the label of troll. You've used it on a couple occasions already. Will I accomplish what I've set out to do? To put on full display some of the ingrained faulty logic of some of the King's fans here? I certainly hope so.

I've been more than fair and given you every opportunity to prove you're capable of interacting without rancor. You've consistently chosen not to do so.

Ditto. When people use detrimental and unfounded gotcha labels like "unathletic" or "poor handler" I'm making sure they're going to back it up with facts which are hard to find around here when it comes to Jimmer. If you don't like that, too bad, I'm going to call you on it anyway.

You obviously have NOT bothered to read the responses of those who bring up points you do not want to acknowledge. That's your problem, not that of everyone else around here.

So a player who has had a micro-fraction of minutes over the years compared to other players on this team is suddenly expending the others? That's some backwards logic there.

I may not change many minds, but win an argument? Sure, that's easy.

I was actually agreeing with you. You've got yourself worked up so much you aren't realizing that a number of posters are actually not that far apart from some of your points.

 

[GaVi]

Please, Kingsfans members, don't judge a large pro-jimmer fanbase by the really annoying fanboys that jump on here and waste your time. Ignore them.

And you did such a great job of ignoring me, you had to post 4 paragraphs insulting me. I'm "rabid" and "annoying", but you "try to provide insight void of emotion". Got it.

Anyone who calls themselves a "Jimmer fan" and lets people get away with trashing him without backing their statements up with facts is not a real Jimmer fan at all IMO.

Oops, I'm trolling again! Post the funny cartoons again!

 

[VF21]

GaVi has left the building.

 

[Dime Dropper]

And you did such a great job of ignoring me, you had to post 4 paragraphs insulting me. I'm "rabid" and "annoying", but you "try to provide insight void of emotion". Got it.

Anyone who calls themselves a "Jimmer fan" and lets people get away with trashing him without backing their statements up with facts is not a real Jimmer fan at all IMO.

Oops, I'm trolling again! Post the funny cartoons again!

Oh noes, how awful! We're Kings fans, not Jimmer fans. We want him to succeed but up to this point he just isn't good enough to get minutes. And I'm not even a big fan of IT or MT. But keep burying your head in the sand, ignoring everything. Jimmer is the GOAT blah blah blah.

 

[Glenn]

I was actually agreeing with you. You've got yourself worked up so much you aren't realizing that a number of posters are actually not that far apart from some of your points.

No kidding. There are several of us with fully functioning brains who like Jimmer. When outlandish comments with a touch of 'tude is the response we get, we address the outlandish statement and not the part of the note we agree with.

Jimmer's fate may rest a great deal on whatever this "new culture" is. If the new culture is that of a bunch of players who share the ball and value team over their own personal stats, Jimmer may bypass IT and MT may be traded as he has value. Jimmer can move the ball. He is not a JWill but he has a good court vision and good court sense. This is what I wish IT would develop. Jimmer looks far more comfortable this year and I think it is because Malone values him for what he is: a shooter with a PG mentality although perhaps little PG ability. In other words, he's a shooter who also will share the ball which is much unlike several players still on the team. We have several players who think that when they get the ball, they are obligated to shoot. That is not Jimmer and it may be the salvation as to his Kings' career.

 

[treach1976]

And you did such a great job of ignoring me, you had to post 4 paragraphs insulting me. I'm "rabid" and "annoying", but you "try to provide insight void of emotion". Got it.

Anyone who calls themselves a "Jimmer fan" and lets people get away with trashing him without backing their statements up with facts is not a real Jimmer fan at all IMO.

The trashing occured because you (and others like you) stirred it up. It's the Occupy Wallstreet technique... you go out and decide to stage a huge protest on the brooklyn bridge. You block traffic and ruin the day for 100k commuters. Then, when the police come to remove you, you make a big scene. Then you post the footage on youtube so that everyone can see the "brutality" in action. My point is, temper your comments. Be realistic. Meet people where they are. Don't start on the offensive. Acknowledge other perspectives. Build! Using terms like "loser-team" and other things like that don't help you make your arguments.

I stand by the belief that you do more harm than good, and I don't want to contribute to that.

 

[Spike]

GaVi has left the building.

I guess it's better to burn out than to fade away.

 

[treach1976]

BTW - i think the next time a thread like this boils up again, the OP or instigator should be forwarded and made to read this thread.

 

[VF21]

BTW - i think the next time a thread like this boils up again, the OP or instigator should be forwarded and made to read this thread.

Suggestion filed for future consideration.

 

[The_Jamal]

There's a place for Jimmer on every team in the league; you can never have enough shooting.

It has been fun to see him improve his game this preseason and show he's just not a 12th man bench warmer, but a player who can possibly contribute off the bench. Until we thin the guards out, there's just no room to write him into the rotation unless he goes and takes a spot from someone slotted above him. Which, might be possible with what he's been able to show this preseason.

 

[BMiller52]

He's been playing better this preseason, looks decent under Malone. I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up surprising people and getting more time.

 

[dude12]

I'm tossing out insults and demeaning comments? You're the only one using the label of troll. You've used it on a couple occasions already. Will I accomplish what I've set out to do? To put on full display some of the ingrained faulty logic of some of the King's fans here? I certainly hope so.



Ditto. When people use detrimental and unfounded gotcha labels like "unathletic" or "poor handler" I'm making sure they're going to back it up with facts which are hard to find around here when it comes to Jimmer. If you don't like that, too bad, I'm going to call you on it anyway.



So a player who has had a micro-fraction of minutes over the years compared to other players on this team is suddenly expending the others? That's some backwards logic there.

I may not change many minds, but win an argument? Sure, that's easy.

There is no logic being mentioned here, just sensationalism and fanatical interpretation. Is fanatical a word?

 

[bajaden]

Yes, Marcus Thornton's play has been frustrating. Why? Because he's shown himself to be a consistent 20 ppg scorer in the NBA, particularly after his trade from New Orleans to Sacramento. His lack of production has been frustrating in the same way that Fredette's play has been encouraging.

I'm not sure you're actually reading what other people have said. My entire point with my first post in this thread was that Jimmer has performed at least as well as Thomas and Thornton in preseason games. The fact is both due to his offensive efficiency AND less than stellar play by Thornton and Thomas. I'd honestly be surprised if any of the three of them were in the plans long term for the new Kings front office.

You could be dead right about the longevity of Jimmer, Thornton, and IT, as far as the Kings are concerned. Obviously McLemore is the heir apparent to the SG job, and so far he's done nothing to make me believe otherwise. He had a shaky summer league, but I'll attribute some of that to trying too hard to prove he deserved to be taken higher, and some to just plain inexperience. I've been very surprised at his improvement since then. His handles are better, and his BBIQ seems to have taken a giant leap forward. Which shows two things. He's very coachable, and that he's also a quick learner. Both those qualities lend themselves very well to his future.

Of the three of them, I think one will be retained. As to who that one is, your guess is as good as mine. They didn't draft McCallum just for the fun of it. He may not be ready for big time right now, but he appears to be part of their future. They already had Evans, IT, and Jimmer on the team. So they didn't have a great need for another PG, especially when there were a couple of players available at positions of need. Like any new regime, they probably want as many of their own choices as possible, so those left over from the Petrie era may have their days numbered. All except Cousins of course.

 

[Gary]

I edited the post because of the racial overtones. Period. If you want to discuss this further via a conversation, feel free.

Well gee thanks for removing my post which had nothing to do with it other than the "quote". Now I don't even remember what I had said to re-write it.. THANKS!

 

[VF21]

Well gee thanks for removing my post which had nothing to do with it other than the "quote". Now I don't even remember what I had said to re-write it.. THANKS!

I didn't remove your post. Give me a moment, however, and I'll double check.

 

[VF21]

Well gee thanks for removing my post which had nothing to do with it other than the "quote". Now I don't even remember what I had said to re-write it.. THANKS!

VERY INTERESTING comment, Gary. I went back and checked and the earlier conversation was with spudfan. Is there something you'd like to confess?

EDIT: I went further back and see what you're talking about. I did NOT delete your post. All I did was delete the racial comment and the reference to it. Sorry for any confusion but nothing was removed other than the aforementioned comment.

 

[funkykingston]

You could be dead right about the longevity of Jimmer, Thornton, and IT, as far as the Kings are concerned. Obviously McLemore is the heir apparent to the SG job, and so far he's done nothing to make me believe otherwise. He had a shaky summer league, but I'll attribute some of that to trying too hard to prove he deserved to be taken higher, and some to just plain inexperience. I've been very surprised at his improvement since then. His handles are better, and his BBIQ seems to have taken a giant leap forward. Which shows two things. He's very coachable, and that he's also a quick learner. Both those qualities lend themselves very well to his future.

Of the three of them, I think one will be retained. As to who that one is, your guess is as good as mine. They didn't draft McCallum just for the fun of it. He may not be ready for big time right now, but he appears to be part of their future. They already had Evans, IT, and Jimmer on the team. So they didn't have a great need for another PG, especially when there were a couple of players available at positions of need. Like any new regime, they probably want as many of their own choices as possible, so those left over from the Petrie era may have their days numbered. All except Cousins of course.

IT is a nice asset to have right now if only because relative to his contract his on court production is a huge bargain. This offseason IT will be looking to rectify that and cash in. Depending on what the market dictates, he may be gone if the going rate gets too steep for the Kings, especially if they view him as a sparkplug off the bench as I do.

The Kings have a team option on Jimmer. If he really plays well this season his $3.2 million price tag might be palatable for the Kings. Otherwise the Kings will either look to resign him for less than that figure or let him go outright. Personally I think the little I've seen of Jimmer in the preseason makes me think the team could very well pick up his option, something I wouldn't have thought based on the previous two seasons.

Thornton probably has the best chance of remaining on the team simply because of his current deal. Sadly I think he's more likely to stay with the Kings if he continues to struggle as there won't be a market for him whereas if he starts and puts up great numbers he could be a trade piece at the deadline or in the offseason. Either way, he's an ending contract NEXT season.

I don't think the front office is opposed to keeping any of them, but right now I assume it's a wait-and-see approach with all three and likely with Vasquez as well who is a restricted free agent. After all, if the FO were really sold on him they woudn't have been pushing to sign Calderon.

Honestly, I don't think we'll keep all four guards for all of this season. Two have ending contracts, one has a team option and the fourth is standing in the way of the FO's prize rookie having a starting spot. Again, I had hoped Thornton would come out the gate hot, be a 20 ppg scorer and up his trade value. But it may more likely that Jimmer or IT (or even Vasquez) gets paired with an ending contract (Salmons or Patterson) in a swap with a team looking to cut payroll.

 

[Gary]

VERY INTERESTING comment, Gary. I went back and checked and the earlier conversation was with spudfan. Is there something you'd like to confess?

EDIT: I went further back and see what you're talking about. I did NOT delete your post. All I did was delete the racial comment and the reference to it. Sorry for any confusion but nothing was removed other than the aforementioned comment.

Sorry about that, I found it. I was zooming through the post list so fast that my avatar hadn't loaded up I guess? I usually try to find my post and go down from it if I am away so I can read the new posts and I usually find it by my avatar and for some reason I couldn't find mine.

 

[bajaden]

IT is a nice asset to have right now if only because relative to his contract his on court production is a huge bargain. This offseason IT will be looking to rectify that and cash in. Depending on what the market dictates, he may be gone if the going rate gets too steep for the Kings, especially if they view him as a sparkplug off the bench as I do.

The Kings have a team option on Jimmer. If he really plays well this season his $3.2 million price tag might be palatable for the Kings. Otherwise the Kings will either look to resign him for less than that figure or let him go outright. Personally I think the little I've seen of Jimmer in the preseason makes me think the team could very well pick up his option, something I wouldn't have thought based on the previous two seasons.

Thornton probably has the best chance of remaining on the team simply because of his current deal. Sadly I think he's more likely to stay with the Kings if he continues to struggle as there won't be a market for him whereas if he starts and puts up great numbers he could be a trade piece at the deadline or in the offseason. Either way, he's an ending contract NEXT season.

I don't think the front office is opposed to keeping any of them, but right now I assume it's a wait-and-see approach with all three and likely with Vasquez as well who is a restricted free agent. After all, if the FO were really sold on him they woudn't have been pushing to sign Calderon.

Honestly, I don't think we'll keep all four guards for all of this season. Two have ending contracts, one has a team option and the fourth is standing in the way of the FO's prize rookie having a starting spot. Again, I had hoped Thornton would come out the gate hot, be a 20 ppg scorer and up his trade value. But it may more likely that Jimmer or IT (or even Vasquez) gets paired with an ending contract (Salmons or Patterson) in a swap with a team looking to cut payroll.

We're pretty much on the same page. All I do is apply logic to the numbers. Without resigning any of, Jimmer, Thomas, )Patterson, or Vasquez, the Kings will owe $52,997,837.00 in salaries. I've read that the cap could go up to as much as 62 mil next year.. If so, that would leave the Kings with around 9 mil in capspace. All three of Thomas, Vasquez, and Patterson are eligible to be signed to an extension up until Oct 31st, a little over a week away. I would think that if the Kings are really serious about any of the three, they would do their best to negotiate something now in order to save money later in freeagency. If not, then that tells me they haven't made up their minds on any of them.

For instance, Utah just signed Favors to an extension at a more reasonable price then we signed Cousins with. And they did so now, so they didn't have to get into a biding war next offseason. Regardless of what the Kings do, they won't have a lot of capspace unless they find a way to shed more salary. Of course the other option would be to hang tight until the following offseason, when they'll have tons of capspace. With Hayes, Outlaw, Mbah a Moute, and Thornton all coming off the books. The problem is that I doubt the fans will be that patient.

 

[Hadlowe]

I think its fair to say that Jimmer was drafted into a big giant mess of an organization that had little in the way of resources for player development. I never felt that Jimmer would be the same player in the NBA that he was at BYU. I doubt he did. But I did feel that he could become a valuable piece on a good team. I suspect that if he had been drafted by the Spurs, that by this time there would be those on the forum trying to figure out how we could trade for him.

That's a pretty safe bet considering that other Jimmer (aka Gary Neal) was a major rotation player with the Spurs last year. Slow, unathletic, long-distance bomber with no handle and major defensive problems. It's amazing what happens to role-players when they are put in a system.

 

[Hadlowe]

You think he's better than this guy?

Not dismissing Thornton's talents or anything, but I'm pretty sure I could have scored 40 points on the 2010-2011 Warriors.

 

[Hadlowe]

Let me just speak up as a fan of basketball that started watching the kings because of Jimmer. Kings aren't my favorite team... I'm a loyal Mavs fan, but I'll still root for them if/when Jimmer is traded (unless playing against the Mavs - still bitter about the 02-03 playoffs!)

I realllllly get annoyed by the Jimmer fans of the rabid variety that can't hold their tongues and have to pick fights. Even if they don't think their statements are outlandish, they never get any ground by making them and actually do Jimmer a disservice in my opinion. If you really cared about his development (and he HAS developed and needs to continue to develop) you would avoid all of this crap. A lot of people read this forum (much more than those who respond) and when a thread like this ends up dominating a day's conversation it helps form national opinion. When you get in a "can't win" fight against people that know a heck of a lot more about the team than you do, a lot of counter arguments get generated, and more extreme views in the opposite direction are taken.

The one thing that EVERYONE agrees on was that Smart was bad for the team and stunted player growth (Jimmer included). Smart is gone, Malone is here. I'm excited to see if Jimmer can prove himself. It's his job to win, and those 3 pointers need to keep falling.

Please, Kingsfans members, don't judge a large pro-jimmer fanbase by the really annoying fanboys that jump on here and waste your time. Ignore them.

I've made pro-Jimmer comments here before, but I try to provide insight void of emotion and about other kings players and concerns. I tend to think that Jimmer has improved a lot and he might be ready for the 2nd or 3rd guy (not just guard) off the bench role which could one day get him ready to be a starter, but that's yet to be proved by him... (Brick and others might disagree vehemently, but that's what healthy debate is about).

Yep, nearly an identical situation here, except I'm a Lakers fan since I was a tyke in the Showtime days. Still want to see the Kings do well because above all, I'm a fan of basketball.

 

[mac]

Just for the hell of it, I'd like to point out that Larry Bird wasn't very athletic either. Of course, he was 6'9", but I clearly remember all the criticisms connected to him coming out of college. Magic Johnson wasn't a great athlete as well. Here's the thing, if your just an average athlete, and that's where I put Jimmer, then you have to have skills and BBIQ that more than make up for the lack of athleticism. I like Jimmer! As I said in another post, I think I saw every game he played at BYU in his last two years. He, at the moment has one great skill. He can shoot the rock. And until McLemore arrived, he was hands down the best 3 pt shooter on the team, and he managed to do so without ever being able to get into a consistent flow, due to not getting regular playing time.

That said, he was lacking in areas of need. Especially his handle, which to be honest with you, I thought would be adequate enough for the NBA based on what I saw at BYU. He had trouble with backcourt pressure. However, the Kings did little to help him bring the ball up. Does anyone remember Webber, and later Miller screening Bibby while he brought the ball up the court. So Ok, its apparent to me at least, that Jimmer has improved his handle. He's also shown better BBIQ in knowing when to drive and when not to. He's done a little creating off the dribble for himself, and others. Nothing fancy, but its an improvement. However, I would be very reluctant to put him in the backcourt with IT. Thats going just a little too small for me. I can see Jimmer in the backcourt with Vasquez. Obviously Malone pictured that idea as well since he started them together in one of the games. If I remember correctly, that worked fairly well.

Where I agree with our emotional new poster is that there seems to be a little bit of a double standard when it comes to Jimmer. Few mention his good games once their logged into history, and few remember the bad games that either Thornton or IT have had. Both Thornton and IT get some slack, because their both so called "Proven Players", and Jimmers accomplishments are discarded as nothing more than a small sampling, and therefore not credible enough to make a judgement on. Now I'm generalizing here, so please don't take offense. I think its fair to say that Jimmer was drafted into a big giant mess of an organization that had little in the way of resources for player development. I never felt that Jimmer would be the same player in the NBA that he was at BYU. I doubt he did. But I did feel that he could become a valuable piece on a good team. I suspect that if he had been drafted by the Spurs, that by this time there would be those on the forum trying to figure out how we could trade for him.

VF21 stated that if he's good enough, then he'll earn his way into the rotation. Not in those exact words, but that's the gist of it. And for the most part, I agree with that statement. I hope that the coaching staff is giving him equal consideration, and the fact that they gave him serious minutes in that one game, seems to validate that they are. So I suggest we wait and see what transpires, and if your a big Jimmer fan, just don't read posts that infuriate you. A post is just someone's opinion, its not a congressional law. Cream usually rises to the top, so lets give it a chance. Couldn't end without at least one metaphor.

Very well said, but I would like to raise one more point to do with Jimmer "earning his way into the rotation". Sometimes it's really all about opportunity/luck, and sadly Jimmer really hasn't been given much opportunity. Jeremy Lin basically went from a nobody to "Linsanity" because he got the opportunity and his coach wasn't short with him. Jimmer on the other hand, has thrown in a few good games here and there, but never really given the chance to play consistent minutes. Though his statline is almost always worse than any of the other guards I very often walk away most satisfied with Jimmer's play because he almost always plays a team game. He does what he's been told to do - and at times I wish he would become a little more selfish just so we can see his "potential". Let's face it - the only reason we have the idea that MT is a proven scorer, that IT is talented, that Tyreke could be a star is because they play like ball-dominant stars. If they played a better team game we'd think they were starter-level role players, not borderline stars. In that sense, how often have we gotten to see Jimmer really just go trigger happy looking for his own shot? And out of those few times - how many times did he look terrible? The well-known mantra is that shooters have to just keep shooting even when their shot isn't falling, but how many times has Jimmer been left in a game when his shot wasn't falling?

To end a messy rant, I guess what I'm saying is that it's not all about simply being good enough to make the rotation. Every player in the league is good, so sometimes it boils down to being in the right situation at the right time. Jimmer has shown flashes of brilliance mixed in with a lot of flaws. But in his first 3 years he's also only played for the worst coach in NBA history. He's a guy who's biggest flaw coming in was his defense ... and then made to play (or sit on the bench) for the worst defensive team in the league. Not much chance for learning if you asked me. And now he finally gets a chance with a new coach, only to find himself behind 4 guards and possibly 5. It just annoys me and frustrates me that guys like John Salmons get regular 30 mpg year after year despite being useless on the floor, solely because year after year our FO doesn't get us a good SF. Meanwhile unproven guys like Jimmer who should be the ones you try to find some minutes for are buried deep in the bench because year after year our FO adds more guards. Well, life isn't fair is it?

 

[VF21]

If Jimmer is impressing the coach during practice, he'll get more PT. If, on the other hand, he's not then he won't. I just don't understand the mindset of many fans that apparently thinks Jimmer is some invisible gem that every single coach, assistant coach, scout, etc. is overlooking.

 

[sqwalk]

Just for the hell of it, I'd like to point out that Larry Bird wasn't very athletic either. Of course, he was 6'9", but I clearly remember all the criticisms connected to him coming out of college. Magic Johnson wasn't a great athlete as well. Here's the thing, if your just an average athlete, and that's where I put Jimmer, then you have to have skills and BBIQ that more than make up for the lack of athleticism. I like Jimmer! As I said in another post, I think I saw every game he played at BYU in his last two years. He, at the moment has one great skill. He can shoot the rock. And until McLemore arrived, he was hands down the best 3 pt shooter on the team, and he managed to do so without ever being able to get into a consistent flow, due to not getting regular playing time.

That said, he was lacking in areas of need. Especially his handle, which to be honest with you, I thought would be adequate enough for the NBA based on what I saw at BYU. He had trouble with backcourt pressure. However, the Kings did little to help him bring the ball up. Does anyone remember Webber, and later Miller screening Bibby while he brought the ball up the court. So Ok, its apparent to me at least, that Jimmer has improved his handle. He's also shown better BBIQ in knowing when to drive and when not to. He's done a little creating off the dribble for himself, and others. Nothing fancy, but its an improvement. However, I would be very reluctant to put him in the backcourt with IT. Thats going just a little too small for me. I can see Jimmer in the backcourt with Vasquez. Obviously Malone pictured that idea as well since he started them together in one of the games. If I remember correctly, that worked fairly well.

Where I agree with our emotional new poster is that there seems to be a little bit of a double standard when it comes to Jimmer. Few mention his good games once their logged into history, and few remember the bad games that either Thornton or IT have had. Both Thornton and IT get some slack, because their both so called "Proven Players", and Jimmers accomplishments are discarded as nothing more than a small sampling, and therefore not credible enough to make a judgement on. Now I'm generalizing here, so please don't take offense. I think its fair to say that Jimmer was drafted into a big giant mess of an organization that had little in the way of resources for player development. I never felt that Jimmer would be the same player in the NBA that he was at BYU. I doubt he did. But I did feel that he could become a valuable piece on a good team. I suspect that if he had been drafted by the Spurs, that by this time there would be those on the forum trying to figure out how we could trade for him.

VF21 stated that if he's good enough, then he'll earn his way into the rotation. Not in those exact words, but that's the gist of it. And for the most part, I agree with that statement. I hope that the coaching staff is giving him equal consideration, and the fact that they gave him serious minutes in that one game, seems to validate that they are. So I suggest we wait and see what transpires, and if your a big Jimmer fan, just don't read posts that infuriate you. A post is just someone's opinion, its not a congressional law. Cream usually rises to the top, so lets give it a chance. Couldn't end without at least one metaphor.

baja, I always appreciate your insight and wisdom. Boy, and to think you used to be so rebellious when you were a youngter? It's amazing what age will do to you, huh.