Sacramento selects Francisco Garcia
- Thread starter Bibby_10
- Start date
I respect your opinion on ball more than almost anyone here and really hope you're right. But I also trust my own opinion and everytime I saw Garcia, he was passive and floated on the perimeter. I kept watching and waiting for him to do something to justify what I'd heard from fans of his game and never really saw it. I think he'll either be a solid roleplayer, the type of guy who plays a perfect support role and is there for the stars of the team or he'll be a dud and out of town in 3 years.
Ahead of who though? Once Utah traded up the Top 5 was a done deal. And beyond that he was competing with similar players with much less question marks like Granger, Graham, McCants, and that Russian cat. Boston got a steal though, I agree. And the Portland pick was slightly bizarre, albeit defendable.
He didn't get beat out by Granger and Graham, except at the very end. They go #16, #17, he goes #18. But for 10 picks there all three of them kept on slipping and slipping as suspect player after suspect player was taken. Very odd. Made we wish we had a more aggressive GM willing to try to make a move to snatch a higher pick and grab one of those guys.
I doubt that. With guys like Granger, Graham, and Green available nobody was going to swap picks merely for "future considerations". No way. I imagine Petrie was working the phones, but we're not throwing one our "core" away to move up six spots, and nobody wants one of our huge contracts or our oft-injured 33 year old backup PG.
I just read the whole thread and have come to the following conclusions:
1. It was the #23 pick in the draft. And the draft, while "deep," wasn't full of future superstars.
2. Petrie isn't known for his fantastic drafting ability. He's most admired for his ability to trade for the missing pieces or the players that don't work on one team but seem to thrive on the Kings.
3. A lot of us, me included, have seemed to write Garcia off before even knowing what number he's going to wear on his jersey. That's not like us. We usually welcome the new guys with open arms...
4. This isn't the only personnel activity that's going to happen for the Kings during TDOS.
All in all, after reading everything, I'm ready to see what happens when Garcia gets here. Worst case scenario couldn't be any worse than Joe Kleine. Best case scenario? In a couple of years, we'll all be looking back at the 2005 draft as one of the best things to happen to the Kings in a long, long time.
1. It was the #23 pick in the draft. And the draft, while "deep," wasn't full of future superstars.
2. Petrie isn't known for his fantastic drafting ability. He's most admired for his ability to trade for the missing pieces or the players that don't work on one team but seem to thrive on the Kings.
3. A lot of us, me included, have seemed to write Garcia off before even knowing what number he's going to wear on his jersey. That's not like us. We usually welcome the new guys with open arms...
4. This isn't the only personnel activity that's going to happen for the Kings during TDOS.
All in all, after reading everything, I'm ready to see what happens when Garcia gets here. Worst case scenario couldn't be any worse than Joe Kleine. Best case scenario? In a couple of years, we'll all be looking back at the 2005 draft as one of the best things to happen to the Kings in a long, long time.
VF21 said:
I just read the whole thread and have come to the following conclusions:
1. It was the #23 pick in the draft. And the draft, while "deep," wasn't full of future superstars.
2. Petrie isn't known for his fantastic drafting ability. He's most admired for his ability to trade for the missing pieces or the players that don't work on one team but seem to thrive on the Kings.
3. A lot of us, me included, have seemed to write Garcia off before even knowing what number he's going to wear on his jersey. That's not like us. We usually welcome the new guys with open arms...
4. This isn't the only personnel activity that's going to happen for the Kings during TDOS.
All in all, after reading everything, I'm ready to see what happens when Garcia gets here. Worst case scenario couldn't be any worse than Joe Kleine. Best case scenario? In a couple of years, we'll all be looking back at the 2005 draft as one of the best things to happen to the Kings in a long, long time.
1. It was the #23 pick in the draft. And the draft, while "deep," wasn't full of future superstars.
2. Petrie isn't known for his fantastic drafting ability. He's most admired for his ability to trade for the missing pieces or the players that don't work on one team but seem to thrive on the Kings.
3. A lot of us, me included, have seemed to write Garcia off before even knowing what number he's going to wear on his jersey. That's not like us. We usually welcome the new guys with open arms...
4. This isn't the only personnel activity that's going to happen for the Kings during TDOS.
All in all, after reading everything, I'm ready to see what happens when Garcia gets here. Worst case scenario couldn't be any worse than Joe Kleine. Best case scenario? In a couple of years, we'll all be looking back at the 2005 draft as one of the best things to happen to the Kings in a long, long time.
I phrased my initial response poorly --- I should have said name another draftee that has panned out for the Kings. JWill - didn't quite work out and had to be traded (although that was an upgrade, and so goes against my argument). Hedo - taken one pick ahead of Desmond Mason, a quality starter at SG/SF in the NBA with a ridiculous amount of athleticism. He could still be the Kings starting SG right now (he rebounds and plays defense), but of course Hedo (in part) turned into Brad Miller (so that may go against my argument as well). Gerald Wallace -somehow ended up in the Kings' doghouse, even when Adelman had little to no choice but to play him. I'd be happy with him as the teams starting SG right now, but he's in a Bobcats uniform.
Petrie is a good drafter, but other than Peja, he hasn't shown any reason for me to believe he is a superb drafter. He's a superb GM that has done an excellent job upgrading the Kings over the past 5 to 7 years through shrewd trades, not through shrewd drafting. Contrast that with the Spurs (who got lucky twice, by the way), who have gotten both Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli late in the first round via the draft.
Petrie is a good drafter, but other than Peja, he hasn't shown any reason for me to believe he is a superb drafter. He's a superb GM that has done an excellent job upgrading the Kings over the past 5 to 7 years through shrewd trades, not through shrewd drafting. Contrast that with the Spurs (who got lucky twice, by the way), who have gotten both Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli late in the first round via the draft.
Trajan Langdon was undersized, couldn't handle the ball, had a greater passion for baseball than basketball and was widely considered a major reach.
I'm not thrilled with the Garcia pick, but he was drafted where he should have been based on talent. If anything, he could have gone higher. If McCants was off the board I think he was a lock to Minnesota. Even if you don't look at the big differences in their games, the distinction between Langdon and Garcia is that Garcia plays with heart and passion.
I was really hoping for some spark, some reason for hope from this draft. I thought the Kings might get it when a few guys (Graham, Granger, Warrick, Green) started slipping but it didn't happen. I also doubt the idea that it would have been easy to move up in the draft. There seemed to be a LOT of interest from teams wanting to move into the mid to late teens and we saw ZERO trades. In THIS draft, I think moving up our cost would likely have been Bobby Jackson, and not every team (Boston for instance) would have bit.
Now that I've thought about it, I can't really be too upset with this pick. I posted earlier that I was worried Petrie would pick Garcia but now, looking back, I can't see who was drafted after him that would have been a better pick. Turiaf? Simien? They both have their drawbacks as well. He seems like more of the same, and he certainly doesn't address any weaknesses for the Kings, but I think Garcia was legitimately the best player available at 23. And I can live with that.
I'm not thrilled with the Garcia pick, but he was drafted where he should have been based on talent. If anything, he could have gone higher. If McCants was off the board I think he was a lock to Minnesota. Even if you don't look at the big differences in their games, the distinction between Langdon and Garcia is that Garcia plays with heart and passion.
I was really hoping for some spark, some reason for hope from this draft. I thought the Kings might get it when a few guys (Graham, Granger, Warrick, Green) started slipping but it didn't happen. I also doubt the idea that it would have been easy to move up in the draft. There seemed to be a LOT of interest from teams wanting to move into the mid to late teens and we saw ZERO trades. In THIS draft, I think moving up our cost would likely have been Bobby Jackson, and not every team (Boston for instance) would have bit.
Now that I've thought about it, I can't really be too upset with this pick. I posted earlier that I was worried Petrie would pick Garcia but now, looking back, I can't see who was drafted after him that would have been a better pick. Turiaf? Simien? They both have their drawbacks as well. He seems like more of the same, and he certainly doesn't address any weaknesses for the Kings, but I think Garcia was legitimately the best player available at 23. And I can live with that.
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Garcia is an interesting pick. It seems pretty certain we'll have a young guard rotation... probably no Anothy Peeler pickups in our near future.
From what I'm hearing it seems Garcia may be more NBA-ready than Martin, which doesn't bode well for Kevin considering he's already had a year to develop (granted, without much playing time). I have to assume the Kings want to keep Evans, because they'd be fools not to. If that's the case Martin goes down to third-stringer who's once again relegated to garbage time, and it's a training camp battle between Evans and Garcia for the starting spot.
This also makes it pretty clear (I hope) that Petrie plans to use one or two of those "trade pieces" from the Webber deal to land a legit PF. Martin may be expendable as well. With his low salary and still untapped potential, he could be an attractive addition to our Elton Brand package.
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From what I'm hearing it seems Garcia may be more NBA-ready than Martin, which doesn't bode well for Kevin considering he's already had a year to develop (granted, without much playing time). I have to assume the Kings want to keep Evans, because they'd be fools not to. If that's the case Martin goes down to third-stringer who's once again relegated to garbage time, and it's a training camp battle between Evans and Garcia for the starting spot.
This also makes it pretty clear (I hope) that Petrie plans to use one or two of those "trade pieces" from the Webber deal to land a legit PF. Martin may be expendable as well. With his low salary and still untapped potential, he could be an attractive addition to our Elton Brand package.
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Sorry if this has already been posted (don't have the patience to sift through the entire thread. Here is sportlines analysis of Garcia).
SportsLine's Analysis The Puerto Rican sharp-shooter can play this game, but he's not the first round lock college coach Rick Pitino made him out to be. His fearless demeanor and ability to knock down the big shot is going to be an asset for somebody down the road, but questions about his frame and ability to get his own shot in this league will likely see him dip into the second round. -- Tony Mejia
Some people say he's not athletic enough or not skilled enough as a shooter. Some people are too funny. Garcia toyed with most of the college competition he faced. He won't toy with NBA players, but he'll fit in just fine. -- Gregg Doyel Garcia is a very intelligent and versatile player -- capable of playing point guard, shooting guard and small forward. He lacks the quickness and strength to be a dominant player in the pros, but his intensity and passion make him one of the fiercest competitors out there. -- Matt Lawrence
Scouting Report DOB: Dec. 31, 1981.
Scouting report: Garcia is forgoing his senior season at Louisville, but has kept his eligibility alive by not hiring an agent. This season, Garcia led the Cardinals in scoring (15.7 points per game), assists (148), steals (65) and blocks (56) as they made the Final Four for the first time since the 1986 championship team. Good scorer with a soft shooting touch. May end up being a point-forward type because of his length, excellent court vision and ability to handle the ball. Has improved his defense dramatically in three years at Louisville. Outstanding shot-blocker for a guard. Scouts believe Garcia's most natural position is small forward, but he is often unwilling to bang in the paint. Must get stronger. Not a great athlete. Struggles against stronger and more athletic competition. Has a tendency to disappear on offense, particularly against top defenders. Expected to be selected in the late first round or early second. (AP)
SportsLine's Analysis The Puerto Rican sharp-shooter can play this game, but he's not the first round lock college coach Rick Pitino made him out to be. His fearless demeanor and ability to knock down the big shot is going to be an asset for somebody down the road, but questions about his frame and ability to get his own shot in this league will likely see him dip into the second round. -- Tony Mejia
Some people say he's not athletic enough or not skilled enough as a shooter. Some people are too funny. Garcia toyed with most of the college competition he faced. He won't toy with NBA players, but he'll fit in just fine. -- Gregg Doyel Garcia is a very intelligent and versatile player -- capable of playing point guard, shooting guard and small forward. He lacks the quickness and strength to be a dominant player in the pros, but his intensity and passion make him one of the fiercest competitors out there. -- Matt Lawrence
Scouting Report DOB: Dec. 31, 1981.
Scouting report: Garcia is forgoing his senior season at Louisville, but has kept his eligibility alive by not hiring an agent. This season, Garcia led the Cardinals in scoring (15.7 points per game), assists (148), steals (65) and blocks (56) as they made the Final Four for the first time since the 1986 championship team. Good scorer with a soft shooting touch. May end up being a point-forward type because of his length, excellent court vision and ability to handle the ball. Has improved his defense dramatically in three years at Louisville. Outstanding shot-blocker for a guard. Scouts believe Garcia's most natural position is small forward, but he is often unwilling to bang in the paint. Must get stronger. Not a great athlete. Struggles against stronger and more athletic competition. Has a tendency to disappear on offense, particularly against top defenders. Expected to be selected in the late first round or early second. (AP)
I don't feel that I'm writing Garcia off; I just don't believe that he addresses the needs of the team. He skills seem to duplicate a lot of what we already have, and since I don't believe that he has definite "you must start this guy!" talent, it seems to me like we're creating a glut of backup SG's (especially if we re-sign Evans) without actually acquiring a quality starter at the position.
I don't believe that he is going to make our defense appreciably better. I don't think that he's going to improve our rebounding. He doesn't really score in a different way than any of the players we already have, so he's not going to give us a different look on offense. The only good that I can see coming of this is if Adelman allows Martin and Garcia to fight for the spot; at least, that way, we'll be showing signs of looking towards the future, for a change, rather than a quick fix.
I'm still holding out hope that we trade Stojakovic for a star/superstar PF; I think that there are enough decent free agent SF's out there that we'd be better off using whatever trade value he has to try and fix some of our holes.
I don't believe that he is going to make our defense appreciably better. I don't think that he's going to improve our rebounding. He doesn't really score in a different way than any of the players we already have, so he's not going to give us a different look on offense. The only good that I can see coming of this is if Adelman allows Martin and Garcia to fight for the spot; at least, that way, we'll be showing signs of looking towards the future, for a change, rather than a quick fix.
I'm still holding out hope that we trade Stojakovic for a star/superstar PF; I think that there are enough decent free agent SF's out there that we'd be better off using whatever trade value he has to try and fix some of our holes.
this is one pacer fan that is absolutely thrilled we didnt draft garcia....i hope he works out for u guys....but the reggie miller clone thing, well....lets just say to a pacers fan who will miss reggie, i was praying we didnt draft this kid....
to say hes struggled against the tougher competition is a bit of an understatement....and though many like to right off his 2-10, 4pt performance against the illini at the final four as only being one game....its true, it was only one game...one game against nba type guards....the biggest game of his career....and he flopped...now reggie was a flopper, but he always performed in big games....
but i woulda been willing to give him the one game.....if u review last season he had noticeable dropoffs against the good teams and excelled against the second rate teams....
something tells me hes not gonna see too many second rate college teams in the nba....well i guess theres always atlanta and new orleans.... he just had way too many bad games against good teams to make me think hes gonna suddenly turn it around now that hes in the nba....
many many pacer fans wanted him prior to the draft...i was in the minority....and boy am i happy...actually everyone is ecstatic about gettting granger....so noone even cares about garcia anymore......but thats another story.....
good luck nonetheless....and i dont see him even close to starting for u guys next year....kmart is and will be the better player...
to say hes struggled against the tougher competition is a bit of an understatement....and though many like to right off his 2-10, 4pt performance against the illini at the final four as only being one game....its true, it was only one game...one game against nba type guards....the biggest game of his career....and he flopped...now reggie was a flopper, but he always performed in big games....
but i woulda been willing to give him the one game.....if u review last season he had noticeable dropoffs against the good teams and excelled against the second rate teams....
something tells me hes not gonna see too many second rate college teams in the nba....well i guess theres always atlanta and new orleans....
he just had way too many bad games against good teams to make me think hes gonna suddenly turn it around now that hes in the nba....many many pacer fans wanted him prior to the draft...i was in the minority....and boy am i happy...actually everyone is ecstatic about gettting granger....so noone even cares about garcia anymore...
...but thats another story.....good luck nonetheless....and i dont see him even close to starting for u guys next year....kmart is and will be the better player...
I think you will be happy with Cisco
http://www.thelouisvillechannel.com/cbaskb49/2471884/detail.html
Many of you are doubting his defensive skills. Check out his stats at the above link. I will admit, he will need to step it up in the pros, but one thing about this kid, he will succeed or die trying. He was in the gym at 4:30 AM every morning, shot a thousand shots everyday (outside practice), and motivated the other players on the team (even as a Freshman). I saw that a Pacers fan was offended that someone "cloned him as "The Great" Reggie Miller". I would say he will be more like a D. Wade. As always, IMO.
http://www.thelouisvillechannel.com/cbaskb49/2471884/detail.html
Many of you are doubting his defensive skills. Check out his stats at the above link. I will admit, he will need to step it up in the pros, but one thing about this kid, he will succeed or die trying. He was in the gym at 4:30 AM every morning, shot a thousand shots everyday (outside practice), and motivated the other players on the team (even as a Freshman). I saw that a Pacers fan was offended that someone "cloned him as "The Great" Reggie Miller". I would say he will be more like a D. Wade. As always, IMO.
For everyone who is down on Petrie for not drafting a big man who can come in and contribute right away.....
When was the last time a big that stepped right in and was productive got drafted outside of the first 15 picks? Bigs that can contribute right away don't last into the 20s. Projects go in that stage of the draft. Petrie should have the right players on the roster to deal for something other than a project.
As for Garcia, the fact that his strengths are shooting and ballhandling mean he should fit right in with this team, if Adelman even plays him. Rick is the worst coach to have if you want to develop young talent.
When was the last time a big that stepped right in and was productive got drafted outside of the first 15 picks? Bigs that can contribute right away don't last into the 20s. Projects go in that stage of the draft. Petrie should have the right players on the roster to deal for something other than a project.
As for Garcia, the fact that his strengths are shooting and ballhandling mean he should fit right in with this team, if Adelman even plays him. Rick is the worst coach to have if you want to develop young talent.