Rudy Gay to Atlanta trade proposal:

bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Whereas I'm bored, I decided for no good reason to propose a trade. After reading about Atlanta's problem of having two PG's that want to start, and one of them, Teague, being in the last year of his contract, and the possibility of Rondo going elsewhere, I thought what the hell, why not.

So I propose we send Rudy Gay, and his 12 million dollar salary to Atlanta for Jeff Teague who is making 8 mil next season, and Thabo Sefolosha who is making 4 mil next season. Salaries match, so it's an even match. Teague has been unhappy because his minutes have going down with the improvement of Schroder. The handwriting seems to be on the wall. If for some reason the Hawks don't want to include Sefolosha, but can absorb the salary, then we could do Gay for Teague straight up and gain 4 mil in cap space.

Another option, if he agreeable, would be to include Bazemore in a sign and trade along with Teague. Problem is, I don't remember if sign and trades can be part of a multiplayer deal. I'm sure the Capt will help me with this one. So it's:

1. Rudy Gay = Jeff Teague & Thabo Sefolosha
or
2. Rudy Gay = Jeff Teague & 4 mil in cap space
or
3. Rudy Gay = Jeff Teague & Kent Bazemore in sign and trade.
 
Not terrible. 1 seems like it's the most realistic. I'd hate to see Gay go before he gets the chance to play for a coach that might know how to use him much more appropriately.
 
Just a small point -- Rudy Gay made 12.4 million this season but his salary for next season is 13.3 million so that's the salary we would have to come close to. I always mess up the CBA details when I attempt to explain them, so I'll leave that to someone else this time. :) The basic idea looks good to me. Jeff Teague has looked great in that Atlanta system so I don't know why they seem so eager to move him, but I think he could be successful here if we move on from Rondo (or he moves on from us). Kent Bazemore I'm less sure about. DeMarre Carroll got a $60 million deal last summer after playing the same position for Atlanta and that's a deal Toronto might want a do-over on. I don't dislike Bazemore, and obviously if we trade Rudy than we need to find a replacement, but he wouldn't be near the top of my list (personally).
 
I'd love that deal, but I think we'd really have to wait and see which direction the Hawks go. At this point, Schroeder>Teague. I think Atlanta is willing to move Teague, but not for the sake of moving him. The Kings probably have the best looking deal with Rudy, a legit #2/3 option. The Hawks have played in a Spurs-type offense, but don't have Popvich...

Their offensive options were Millsap, then Horford/Teague equally. If you added Rudy to that team, it's automatically Millsap, Rudy, then Horfrod/Teague. Giving them Rudy would make them better contenders. They've been desperately missing a scorer who can create their own shot. Rudy can be that guy. I remember coming across a stat that said Rudy was one of the top clutchest guy in the current NBA.

However, we still don't know where the Hawks want to go with their team. Have 2 FAs in Horford/Bazemore. Korver is done. Bazemore isn't anything more than a 3&D guy. Millsap isn't a real #1 option, and even with him as their #1 option, they lack a real #2 scoring threat. Reminds me of the Nuggets with Iguadola.
 
I suspect we are keeping Rudy now that Joerger is the new coach. He did make comments in the presser about knowing Rudy and Kosta and how he had already talked to them. I suspect that we are going to keep Rudy unless he absolutely wants out.
 
upinsmoke said:
No. He's a fumbling turnover at the 3 and when you take into consideration his size and the areas on the court where he is most effective in today's NBA he's probably a better fit at 4.
Click to expand...
I wonder where Rudy feels the most comfortable. After the relatively long chatter with bajaden about varying degrees of comfort playing different baseball positions, I was wondering how that might fit with basketball. I think there is a difference between SF and PF for the player. Just curious. He hasn't looked very comfortable or effective at the 4. We've already got a lot of big guys.

I like your description of his ability to dribble. I'd be curious if "pace" has anything to do with that.
 
upinsmoke said:
No. He's a fumbling turnover at the 3 and when you take into consideration his size and the areas on the court where he is most effective in today's NBA he's probably a better fit at 4.
Click to expand...
I was more surprised by the bench thing than being at the 4 spot. He's still a top 10 SF in the NBA. You don't bench guys like that. The biggest problem with Rudy is that we consistently asked him to do things he isn't good at. It's been mostly our fault, not his. We treated him like a number 2 option, and sometimes a 1b option, which he isn't. I think he's a 3rd option and I would be all for trading him to get a real number 2.
 
upinsmoke said:
No. He's a fumbling turnover at the 3 and when you take into consideration his size and the areas on the court where he is most effective in today's NBA he's probably a better fit at 4.
Click to expand...
Rudy had second-lowest TO rate in his career this past season at 2.8 per 100 possessions, while his career average is 3.5.

Everyone should've learnt from his Toronto stint, that you don't isolate him at 3pt line and ask for buckets, but of course Ghost of George has this great system, that was not truly appreciated in his last place of employment.
 
The question the organization has to ask itself is, does Rudy's style of play fit into the type of team their trying to build. Rudy is a very skilled player and can be an asset if his skills are used properly. But if the skill set doesn't fit what your doing, then it's best to move on and get a better fit. There are times when a less talented, but better fit, works better than a more talented bad fit.
 
I think we need to try to trade Rudy. A lot of "talent and skill" but from watching him play over the years, I don't think he'll ever be confused with being a true winner. Seems like a nice enough guy off the court but I just don't like his style of play. WAY too lazy on defense for me to have any feelings we shouldn't look to trade him. Even on offense I think he's a ball stop. We need more two way, unselfish players IMO.
 
Being that Rudy is clearly our #2 scorer and we have no one to replace that, I would lean towards not trading Rudy, unless we can get a legit #2 scorer in return.

Otherwise, teams would just collapse on DMC every possession and force WCS or our SG (Ben?) or PG (Rondo or Teague?) to score the ball. Also, I like Bazemore, but I think he would be more a 3 and D shooting guard, than someone who could replace Gay's production.

Another plus for Rudy is that he would be a bridge for the players and coach, being that he was with Joerger in Memphis.

Teague may be a interesting option though, but I think I maybe more inclined to trade our #8 pick (Unless Hield or Dunn falls to us) for him, instead of depleting the roster of our 2nd best option on offense.
 
ockingsfan said:
Being that Rudy is clearly our #2 scorer and we have no one to replace that, I would lean towards not trading Rudy, unless we can get a legit #2 scorer in return.

Otherwise, teams would just collapse on DMC every possession and force WCS or our SG (Ben?) or PG (Rondo or Teague?) to score the ball. Also, I like Bazemore, but I think he would be more a 3 and D shooting guard, than someone who could replace Gay's production.

Another plus for Rudy is that he would be a bridge for the players and coach, being that he was with Joerger in Memphis.

Teague may be a interesting option though, but I think I maybe more inclined to trade our #8 pick (Unless Hield or Dunn falls to us) for him, instead of depleting the roster of our 2nd best option on offense.
Click to expand...

Here's the problem with Rudy, and maybe it won't be a problem with some adjustments. Joerger has said he wants more ball movement. More passing. More player movement. Probably something similar to what the Kings used to run with Webb, Vlade, Peja, etc. Or maybe similar to the Spurs. Rudy doesn't fit that system very well with his skill set. Rudy needs the ball in his hands to be effective, and that stops ball movement. Rudy isn't the passer that Cousins is. Cousins fits fine, but Rudy doesn't.

You bring up legit concerns about moving Rudy, and I get that. But you can't have paralysis by analysis. Solve the problem of a player not fitting first, and then solve the problem of how you replace that player. Now maybe Joerger can figure out a way to utilize Gay and still run the system he wants. But while your thinking short term, you have to also think long term. Gay may have more trade value now, then he will in two year from now. So if he isn't a good fit, it might be better to bite the bullet now, than to wait. By the way, I really like Rudy as a player and as a person. But I want what's best for the team.
 
bajaden said:
You bring up legit concerns about moving Rudy, and I get that. But you can't have paralysis by analysis. Solve the problem of a player not fitting first, and then solve the problem of how you replace that player. Now maybe Joerger can figure out a way to utilize Gay and still run the system he wants. But while your thinking short term, you have to also think long term. Gay may have more trade value now, then he will in two year from now. So if he isn't a good fit, it might be better to bite the bullet now, than to wait. By the way, I really like Rudy as a player and as a person. But I want what's best for the team.
Click to expand...

you may be right about rudy's trade value. with the cap set to explode, a lot of mid-level free agents are going to seem dramatically overpaid. if a team is in need of additional scoring, instead of overpaying one of those free agents in the crazy offseason that's coming, it might make more sense to trade for a player like rudy. the extension he signed with the kings was pretty reasonable under current cap conditions, and it's going to look a lot better after the cap balloons at the open of the free agency period. of course, i don't really know who the right trade partner would be for gay at this stage of his career. he doesn't really seem like he'd fit well in atlanta's system, though i like the proposals you offered in the OP...
 
bajaden said:
Here's the problem with Rudy, and maybe it won't be a problem with some adjustments. Joerger has said he wants more ball movement. More passing. More player movement. Probably something similar to what the Kings used to run with Webb, Vlade, Peja, etc. Or maybe similar to the Spurs. Rudy doesn't fit that system very well with his skill set. Rudy needs the ball in his hands to be effective, and that stops ball movement. Rudy isn't the passer that Cousins is. Cousins fits fine, but Rudy doesn't.

You bring up legit concerns about moving Rudy, and I get that. But you can't have paralysis by analysis. Solve the problem of a player not fitting first, and then solve the problem of how you replace that player. Now maybe Joerger can figure out a way to utilize Gay and still run the system he wants. But while your thinking short term, you have to also think long term. Gay may have more trade value now, then he will in two year from now. So if he isn't a good fit, it might be better to bite the bullet now, than to wait. By the way, I really like Rudy as a player and as a person. But I want what's best for the team.
Click to expand...

I think that Rudy is a capable passer.

He was lost in George Karl's offense for one and a half years. It doesn't mean the Rudy can't be a capable passer in the right system. I think if Rudy buys in to coach Joerger's system, he could be a very key player in the Kings getting back to the playoffs.

If you tell me the Kings are going to try and make the playoffs this year, I would rather keep Rudy and trade the #8 pick for Teague and roll with a core of DMC, Gay, Teague, WCS and a 3 and D shooting guard.

As far as Rudy's trade value, I think it is rather low right now after going through a bad year in George Karl's system. I think if he plays well in Joerger's system, his trade value would be much higher at the trade deadline, if you are so inclined to trade him then.
 
Do not know in what universe is Cuz clearly better passer than Guy.

When looking at ast/to ratio, one has career 2.7/3.4, the other 2.3/2.4.
One never had better ast/to ratio per year than the others career average.

During the "golden" age when there was a good system under Malone (nov 2014), one had 4.5/3 the other 2.6/3.6.

Couple of other things that make moving Rudy not the easy path to upgrade:
Trading him opens hole at SF.
Heck, I would argue regarding stretch 4 that getting Ryan Anderson (popular stretch 4 around here) is not that much more upgrade over Rudy.


Guy could be moved as the most valuable piece we have, but it is the third decision to be made (what do do with Rondo and starting SG being before that).
We have money to do both without trading anyone.
 
andjel said:
Do not know in what universe is Cuz clearly better passer than Guy.

When looking at ast/to ratio, one has career 2.7/3.4, the other 2.3/2.4.
One never had better ast/to ratio per year than the others career average.

During the "golden" age when there was a good system under Malone (nov 2014), one had 4.5/3 the other 2.6/3.6.

Couple of other things that make moving Rudy not the easy path to upgrade:
Trading him opens hole at SF.
Heck, I would argue regarding stretch 4 that getting Ryan Anderson (popular stretch 4 around here) is not that much more upgrade over Rudy.


Guy could be moved as the most valuable piece we have, but it is the third decision to be made (what do do with Rondo and starting SG being before that).
We have money to do both without trading anyone.
Click to expand...

My point about Cousins being the better passer has more to do with vision and skills than results. Cousins problem and asset, is that he see's passes that Gay will never see. Unfortunately, sometimes he see's passer that shouldn't be attempted. Point being is that Cousins is capable of making passes that Gay isn't capable of. Neither of them has a good assist to turnover ratio. I think Cousins is a willing passer, wher Gay tends to have one focus once he touches the ball. At this stage of his career, Gay is what Gay is. He's not going to turn into Lamar Odom. As far as order of priority, there is none. It might be possible to solve the SG problem with the trading of Gay.

As far as Rondo goes, he's an even worse fit for what Vlade and Joerger are talking about. Your not going to get ball movement with Rondo on the floor. He dominates the ball. If you try and make Rondo into anything other than what he wants to be, your asking for big trouble.
 
bajaden said:
My point about Cousins being the better passer has more to do with vision and skills than results. Cousins problem and asset, is that he see's passes that Gay will never see. Unfortunately, sometimes he see's passer that shouldn't be attempted. Point being is that Cousins is capable of making passes that Gay isn't capable of. Neither of them has a good assist to turnover ratio. I think Cousins is a willing passer, wher Gay tends to have one focus once he touches the ball. At this stage of his career, Gay is what Gay is. He's not going to turn into Lamar Odom. As far as order of priority, there is none. It might be possible to solve the SG problem with the trading of Gay.

As far as Rondo goes, he's an even worse fit for what Vlade and Joerger are talking about. Your not going to get ball movement with Rondo on the floor. He dominates the ball. If you try and make Rondo into anything other than what he wants to be, your asking for big trouble.
Click to expand...

I agree with assessment of Cuz passes, both good and bad. While ast/to is not great for either, it is much better for Gay. Number of passes Gay does do show that he is willing passer if asked to.
Guy did reinvent himself couple of times already, and as long as he is forbidden to be number one option (as he was in Memphis and Toronto) I think he can be positive contributor on both, defense and ball movement. His ast/to during the Malone era and immediately afterward was very good.

Trading Gay to solve SG problem opens problem with SF, so it is not a solution just moving weakness from one spot to another.

Rondo is the one that has the most chances to be out, just my feeling. Have the same vision regarding his game, and he was mentioned by Joerger less than Ben or Collison.
Might be because Kings have less control over his destiny, he might be too expensive to keep, we will see.

I think Kings will be fine keeping everything the same and adding starting level SG for the money remaining after resigning Rondo. Everything else is just extra.
 
hrdboild said:
Just a small point -- Rudy Gay made 12.4 million this season but his salary for next season is 13.3 million so that's the salary we would have to come close to. I always mess up the CBA details when I attempt to explain them, so I'll leave that to someone else this time. :) The basic idea looks good to me. Jeff Teague has looked great in that Atlanta system so I don't know why they seem so eager to move him, but I think he could be successful here if we move on from Rondo (or he moves on from us). Kent Bazemore I'm less sure about. DeMarre Carroll got a $60 million deal last summer after playing the same position for Atlanta and that's a deal Toronto might want a do-over on. I don't dislike Bazemore, and obviously if we trade Rudy than we need to find a replacement, but he wouldn't be near the top of my list (personally).
Click to expand...

Just to clarify, I ran the trade through ESPN's trade checker, and it was successful. I'm referring to the Thabo/Teague trade.
 
bajaden said:
Just to clarify, I ran the trade through ESPN's trade checker, and it was successful. I'm referring to the Thabo/Teague trade.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure it won't matter (correct me if I'm wrong)- since almost every team will have cap space (and Atlanta and us are part of it) you don't really need to match salary as long as you don't hit the cap- so we can take far more salary than we give or the other way around.
The ESPN trade checker would show such uneven deals won't work right now because it's still working under the current cap space and contract obligations for the 2015-16 season.
 
Trading gay for Teague may be more viable if we draft someone who can shoot and score in the draft at #8.

I could see a gay for Teague trade and the kings draft Denzel Valentine at #8 and then sign one of joerger's former Memphis players 1) Jeff green 2) Matt Barnes or 3) Courtney Lee to fill in the small forward spot.

PF WCS
SF Jeff green or Barnes
C DMC
SG Valentine
PG Teague
 
Rookies don't play for PO teams, and this is a very important year to get results, so Kings shouldn't trade Rudy, because they found someone at #8.
 
Gilles said:
Rookies don't play for PO teams, and this is a very important year to get results, so Kings shouldn't trade Rudy, because they found someone at #8.
Click to expand...

Start for PO teams? Maybe. Play meaningful minutes? That might be news to Justice Winslow, Myles Turner, and Stanley Johnson, to name a few.
 
Why would we trade Rudy? I remember the pre- Rudy years, we went year after year without a starting quality SF
Rudy in Memphis at the 3? Yes Rudy at the 4 in Toronto - No Rudy at the 3 here first several years - Yes! Rudy at the 4 under Karl - No!
Rudy at the 3 under DJ - Yes!!!!!
Rudy has always played the 4 when requested, but he struggles getting his shots against bigger PF, He is bigger than most SF and can shoot over them better
He also can defend smaller SFs better
I like our players at SF, Rudy and Omri are a very good SF crew, Just leave them out of the 4 position
I love our 3 bigs Cuz,Kosta at C and WCS at 4
OUR PROBLEM IS OUR BACK COURT!!!
The good playoff teams have back courts that have great 3 point shooting and scoring AND can play Defense!
I have enjoyed Rondo , He shines at assists, running the offense, but he is not a great shooter or defender
and might cost too much to resign

So priority in Draft at 8 and Whatever big dollars we can muster in FA needs to go to back court
DC,#8,FA, resign Curry
A fourth Big ( cheap)
Trade Ben, and/and or Belli for ?
(maybe a Pick to use on a 4th big or a 4th Big)
 
LPKingsFan said:
Start for PO teams? Maybe. Play meaningful minutes? That might be news to Justice Winslow, Myles Turner, and Stanley Johnson, to name a few.
Click to expand...
I saw Valentine as a starting SG. Yeah, right...Those guys you named were passable defenders right from the start and understand playing within team concept after playing for very deep and talented college teams, and they were all bench players. Kings need a new starting SG, and it must be a guard with some experience.
 
Gilles said:
I saw Valentine as a starting SG. Yeah, right...Those guys you named were passable defenders right from the start and understand playing within team concept after playing for very deep and talented college teams, and they were all bench players. Kings need a new starting SG, and it must be a guard with some experience.
Click to expand...

I agree. Even if we were to get lucky and get Murray or Hield, I would prefer that they didn't start. I'd like to see them come off the bench under less pressure. Let them get their feet wet get needed experience. So that would mean signing an experienced SG to start. Kent Bazemore anyone?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

twslam07
[Drastic Edition] “THE” Trade Deadline Move to Make…
2
Replies
39
Views
2K
twslam07
twslam07
C
Bulls trade proposal sends Zach LaVine to Kings
Replies
7
Views
2K
Spike
Spike
Vinny Basketballerino
What Did Rudy Gay Mean By This?
Replies
10
Views
928
Ozymandias
Ozymandias
twslam07
  • Poll Poll
Who Should We Sign? (2023 Off-Season)
20 21 22
Replies
635
Views
44K
Stan.Helsing
S
Tetsujin
  • Locked
  • Poll Poll
[Game] Kings vs. Timberwolves 10/24/2024 7pm Pacific 10pm Eastern
18 19 20
Replies
574
Views
14K
joemama
J
Back
Top