Roster moves
- Thread starter RiffRaff
- Start date
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Nobody worth the two of them together is available.
We've got other threads discussing superstars who may posibly be available, and that's what you are talkig about there -- a supersta nabbing package. CP3 in dreamland. Amare, although those two players are exactly the two you would want to keep to surround Amare with if you got him.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I just don't get why everyone, well, not everyone, but a substantial amount of people can't wait to trade off pieces of the core were starting to develop. I'm not oppossed to trading any of them for the right deal, but there are some that want to trade Martin just to clear cap space. Just because Martin isn't a superstar doesn't mean he has no value.. Others just want a rebounding big man. Well, we may already have him in Thompson. He averaged around 7 rebounds a game last year and for a first year, thats pretty good. The rule is, that it takes 3 years for a big to develop and reach his potential. So were still 2 years away with Thompson. Ditto Hawes, who essentially wasted his first year here.
Everyone wanted a rebuild. Well this is what it looks like. It can be very ugly at times. But patience is required, and hasty knee jerk trades usually don't accomplish anything. Think about it guys. Teams that play like well oiled machines are teams that have played together for a while. Evans, Hawes, Thompson, and Martin need floor time together, along with whoever ends up starting at the SF position. The more comfortable they are together, the fewer turnovers you'll see.
In my opinion, you keep your young core group together, barring a no brainer trade, and see what you have at the end of next season. What ever problems you have then, you try to address through the draft or by freeagent signing. There is no quick fix for this team. It took a while to get here and it will take a while to recover. I think we have a good start, and if all the pieces don't fit together well, then we have tradable pieces for the future..
Everyone wanted a rebuild. Well this is what it looks like. It can be very ugly at times. But patience is required, and hasty knee jerk trades usually don't accomplish anything. Think about it guys. Teams that play like well oiled machines are teams that have played together for a while. Evans, Hawes, Thompson, and Martin need floor time together, along with whoever ends up starting at the SF position. The more comfortable they are together, the fewer turnovers you'll see.
In my opinion, you keep your young core group together, barring a no brainer trade, and see what you have at the end of next season. What ever problems you have then, you try to address through the draft or by freeagent signing. There is no quick fix for this team. It took a while to get here and it will take a while to recover. I think we have a good start, and if all the pieces don't fit together well, then we have tradable pieces for the future..
A
AriesMar27
Guest
i wouldnt want to trade martin and hawes in the same deal unless we are somehow getting a center and a useful guard as well... we dont have any other bigs so if we trade hawes or thompson we would need a player to replace them.
CruzDude
Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
Kings are done dealing for the summer IMHO. Seems they will invite two others from summer league roster for training camp. Matthews is my guess for one. Were no other "bigs" worth a second look. But Landry could be one (as a SF) as he is 6-7 and 230 but has great 3 shot and can shoot anywhere from the rim to 22 ft.
Now with Sean May plus Brockman, Greene, Hawes and JT, that is 5 bigs for the 4-5 slots. That leaves 8 more slots for a minimum roster of 13.
Tyreke, Beno and Rodriquez are the PG's (did everyone forget about "Rod"?)
Kevin and Cisco are the SG's
Noce, Omri +1 (Landry??) are the SF
Now with Sean May plus Brockman, Greene, Hawes and JT, that is 5 bigs for the 4-5 slots. That leaves 8 more slots for a minimum roster of 13.
Tyreke, Beno and Rodriquez are the PG's (did everyone forget about "Rod"?)
Kevin and Cisco are the SG's
Noce, Omri +1 (Landry??) are the SF
Jespher
Starter
Are the Kings going the Rashard Lewis route with Dante Greene? From Cruz Dude's analysis it sounds like he played the 2/3/4 positions, but is expecting to play the 4 next season. He doesn't have much post game to speak of, but plays pretty solid defenseand has up to 3 point range usually. There's an interesting correlation there with Paul Westphal drafting/developing Lewis and being the coach now for Dante.
As for the opening post, it would only be worthwhile to trade those two cornerstones for a game changing big who can play both sides of the ball. I wouldn't want to get more players back because it would probably be a further talent bleed.
An aging Duncan, an injury prone Greg Oden (maybe with a disgruntled Rudy Fernandez), or a hobbled Yao Ming is the best we could expect as they would still be worth it for everything they would/could bring. However, I think anyone who would truly be worthwhile to the Kings in that type of trade is just an untouchable cornerstone to their team and probably too old to boot (Dwayne Wade/Tim Duncan/Dwight Howard/Kevin Garnett, Dirk, Pau etc.).
As for the opening post, it would only be worthwhile to trade those two cornerstones for a game changing big who can play both sides of the ball. I wouldn't want to get more players back because it would probably be a further talent bleed.
An aging Duncan, an injury prone Greg Oden (maybe with a disgruntled Rudy Fernandez), or a hobbled Yao Ming is the best we could expect as they would still be worth it for everything they would/could bring. However, I think anyone who would truly be worthwhile to the Kings in that type of trade is just an untouchable cornerstone to their team and probably too old to boot (Dwayne Wade/Tim Duncan/Dwight Howard/Kevin Garnett, Dirk, Pau etc.).
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
lets trade martin to LA for artest again. we'd have a really mean backcourt then 
One and Done
Bench
Although I'm not crazy about either player, I wouldn't trade either player just yet (that is, unless some unforseen CP3 deal comes about).
This is Hawes' year - I've gotta count it as his third, because he truly experienced a full NBA season, the practices, the away games, the committments, earning time, etc. Plus, he's going to be working for a contract extension, which is scary on two fronts, knowing GP tends to overpay and the league as a whole tends to overpay big men. But without digressing, this is a big year for Hawes. Will he prove he's a starting Center? Or a fringe starter/3rd big man who's a defensive liability, inconsistent, has a bad attitude, and shies away from contact? I'm sure this is the year we'll find out...
As with K-Mart, he had an injury-riddled season last year. Will he get his step back? And if he does, will he address his one-dimensional shortcomings? If not, trade him while he still has value...but let's see what we have at the start of the season, at the very least.
This is Hawes' year - I've gotta count it as his third, because he truly experienced a full NBA season, the practices, the away games, the committments, earning time, etc. Plus, he's going to be working for a contract extension, which is scary on two fronts, knowing GP tends to overpay and the league as a whole tends to overpay big men. But without digressing, this is a big year for Hawes. Will he prove he's a starting Center? Or a fringe starter/3rd big man who's a defensive liability, inconsistent, has a bad attitude, and shies away from contact? I'm sure this is the year we'll find out...
As with K-Mart, he had an injury-riddled season last year. Will he get his step back? And if he does, will he address his one-dimensional shortcomings? If not, trade him while he still has value...but let's see what we have at the start of the season, at the very least.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Actually Hawes is signed thru this next year and the following year. The following year being a team option. They don't have to make a qualifiing offer until after the 2010/2011 season. So the Kings have two more seasons before having to make any kind of judgement on him.
One and Done
Bench
Thanks for clearing that one up bajaden - wasn't entirely sure about that when I typed it. Figured that if they extended Cisco last summer - he was drafted in '05 and had a year left on his rookie contract - that Hawes ('07) could possibly be extended next summer to prevent him to go into RFA.
Nevertheless, this year will show what Hawes can do as the full-time starting center - he's got a lot to prove. Like I said, not crazy about him - you could even put me in the naysayers category - but I wouldn't trade him just yet.
Nevertheless, this year will show what Hawes can do as the full-time starting center - he's got a lot to prove. Like I said, not crazy about him - you could even put me in the naysayers category - but I wouldn't trade him just yet.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I've wondered how Hawes game might have been altered had Adelman still been the coach. There's been no clear direction on this team for three years now, thanks to the constant coaching changes. I'm hopefull that having a good coach with an actual plan in mind will help his development. It would be nice to have a set rotation with every player knowing what his roll is.
CruzDude
Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
uhh yah.... were not going to trade Martin or Hawes untill we see what these guys can all do together on the court.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
And you would probably be right, although they've got help in that department. But since other than our rook they are also quite possibly the two most talented players on the team, you can't just jettison them without major return. And since Hawes is also only 20 years old, you rarely give up on a talented big that young until you see what they grow into.
Kings Faithful
Starter
Ok here me out... I'm going to take Spencers last 2 months of play (when he really began to figure it out) and I'm going to average his stats for every game he played over 25 minutes in that 2 month span (in order to annex the games where he was injured, there were only 3 out of 20 that I didn't count).
16.8 ppg / 8.5 rpg / 2.8 apg / .7 bpg / .6 spg / 37 mpg / .511 FG % / .365 3P%
That was his last 2 months when healthy... 2 months, not 2 days like Ike had to turn him into an all-star. These are the numbers he should average coming into next season when healthy, especially now with a PG that can open up lanes and get him the ball. Looking at that, how can you be a naysayer? You just don't trade a 21yr. old 7 footer who can put up those numbers in their second season... and its not like he is injury prone either like some seem to believe... 16 games in two years (only 5 missed this year) is not injury prone.
16.8 ppg / 8.5 rpg / 2.8 apg / .7 bpg / .6 spg / 37 mpg / .511 FG % / .365 3P%
That was his last 2 months when healthy... 2 months, not 2 days like Ike had to turn him into an all-star. These are the numbers he should average coming into next season when healthy, especially now with a PG that can open up lanes and get him the ball. Looking at that, how can you be a naysayer? You just don't trade a 21yr. old 7 footer who can put up those numbers in their second season... and its not like he is injury prone either like some seem to believe... 16 games in two years (only 5 missed this year) is not injury prone.
We finally start to form a solid young team and before we get a chance to even see them play a single game together we split them up? 
Hawes is going to dominate in couple years and Martin is flat out one of the most efficient scorers in the league. Both are unselfish players and have zero issues off the court. Yeah a couple of areas of their game they can improve on, but other then that they are great players at a decent price.
Our team has been the little brother of the league for a couple years now. Thing is, little bro has grown a bit and with a few more years of growing pains, we will be the ones dishing out the charlie horses.
Hawes is going to dominate in couple years and Martin is flat out one of the most efficient scorers in the league. Both are unselfish players and have zero issues off the court. Yeah a couple of areas of their game they can improve on, but other then that they are great players at a decent price.
Our team has been the little brother of the league for a couple years now. Thing is, little bro has grown a bit and with a few more years of growing pains, we will be the ones dishing out the charlie horses.
We finally start to form a solid young team and before we get a chance to even see them play a single game together we split them up?
I don't think you have to worry. We here on a message board may debate things like jettisoning Martin and Hawes, but I really don't see the front office buying into it...especially at this point in the rebuild.
I think pretty much everyone here KNOWS we're rebuilding. And I think you'd be surprised how many "die hard fans" there are around here.
Valid criticisms of players are one thing. Resorting to the "punk" type name-calling isn't gonna fly. Hopefully this is just a word to the wise...
No. Draw your own conclusions.
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