Results are in on Bogie

Čarolija said:
I can’t speak for anyone else but that could not be further away from the truth for me personally. If WCS can average 10 rebounds, 2 blocks and 2 steals over the course of the season then you won’t hear much complaining from me about WCS. With his length, athleticism and speed, there is absolutely NO reason why he cannot average those numbers of the course of the season. It’s all got to do with his willingness to do it. He should be one of the best defenders in the NBA with his tools but he is not.
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If 10 boards, 2 blocks, 2 steals is your bar for WCS then I’m afraid you’re never going to be happy. Those are some pretty damn elite numbers. So elite in fact, that there hasn’t been a single player to put up those averages in the last 17 years atleast (that’s as far back that I looked). The only player that came close to your expectations for WCS was Ben Wallace who for a 4 year stretch from 2000-2004 was able to average 10+ boards, 2+ blocks, but only 1.3-1.7 steals.

I agree with needing more from WCS on a consistant basis. This season he’s putting up 12 pts, 6.5 reb, .9 steals and .8 blocks in 26 min/game. That’s not a ton of minutes, the only number he should be markedly better in with those minutes are his rebounding.
 
LoungeLizard said:
If 10 boards, 2 blocks, 2 steals is your bar for WCS then I’m afraid you’re never going to be happy. Those are some pretty damn elite numbers. So elite in fact, that there hasn’t been a single player to put up those averages in the last 17 years atleast (that’s as far back that I looked). The only player that came close to your expectations for WCS was Ben Wallace who for a 4 year stretch from 2000-2004 was able to average 10+ boards, 2+ blocks, but only 1.3-1.7 steals.

I agree with needing more from WCS on a consistant basis. This season he’s putting up 12 pts, 6.5 reb, .9 steals and .8 blocks in 26 min/game. That’s not a ton of minutes, the only number he should be markedly better in with those minutes are his rebounding.
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You are right with rebounding. Maybe the expectations on blocks and steals are a tad high. If those are down to 1spg and 1.5bpg I would be happy with that as long as the rebounding is in the double figures.

Point is that with his size, length, mobility and athleticism, WCS should be one of the best defensive bigs in the game but he is not even close. My main concern along with his rebounding is that he has not shown interest in becoming that type of defender.

I am looking a few years down the track, can you win a championship where your main big is the current version of WCS? I think the answer is No! Should he improve? I think he should! Will he improve? I don't know! I am not convinced that he is interested in really putting in the work in those areas of his game to improve to the required level. He is more interested in developing his offensive game which is fine but his bread and butter should be defensive side of the ball and anything after that is gravy.
 
Čarolija said:
You are right with rebounding. Maybe the expectations on blocks and steals are a tad high. If those are down to 1spg and 1.5bpg I would be happy with that as long as the rebounding is in the double figures.

Point is that with his size, length, mobility and athleticism, WCS should be one of the best defensive bigs in the game but he is not even close. My main concern along with his rebounding is that he has not shown interest in becoming that type of defender.

I am looking a few years down the track, can you win a championship where your main big is the current version of WCS? I think the answer is No! Should he improve? I think he should! Will he improve? I don't know! I am not convinced that he is interested in really putting in the work in those areas of his game to improve to the required level. He is more interested in developing his offensive game which is fine but his bread and butter should be defensive side of the ball and anything after that is gravy.
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well if you remember from his interviews from a year ago, he mentioned that he has offensive potential that is waiting to showcase but he wasn't able to do so at Kentucky because Coach Cal had him play a specific role. There is nothing wrong with being confident in yourself but there's a vast contrast to being delusional to the point where you think you can make all these moves and all of a sudden forget what got you into the league.
 
My whole point of this thread is that listening to ginger blowhard made me realize that I would give Hield up for Bridges. And only Bridges. But I was curious to see what others thought of his value as obviously Bogie is the better overall player.
 
LoungeLizard said:
If 10 boards, 2 blocks, 2 steals is your bar for WCS then I’m afraid you’re never going to be happy. Those are some pretty damn elite numbers. So elite in fact, that there hasn’t been a single player to put up those averages in the last 17 years atleast (that’s as far back that I looked). The only player that came close to your expectations for WCS was Ben Wallace who for a 4 year stretch from 2000-2004 was able to average 10+ boards, 2+ blocks, but only 1.3-1.7 steals.

I agree with needing more from WCS on a consistant basis. This season he’s putting up 12 pts, 6.5 reb, .9 steals and .8 blocks in 26 min/game. That’s not a ton of minutes, the only number he should be markedly better in with those minutes are his rebounding.
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I need to see 18-10 for the rest of the season. Better rebounding, better defense and some outside game. Every great big in this league has it. Otherwise, No point in offering him a ridiculous extension. If he can't be a defensive anchor, nor a consistent offensive threat, than what's the point? Either WCS is going to bring it every night offensively or be a defensive strength. One or the other. Preferably both, even though I don't think he has the BBIQ to handle both. If WCS looking to make 18-20/5. Right Now he's worth 10-12 per and I wouldn't pay him a dime over that.
 
KingsSelecao said:
I need to see 18-10 for the rest of the season. Better rebounding, better defense and some outside game. Every great big in this league has it. Otherwise, No point in offering him a ridiculous extension. If he can't be a defensive anchor, nor a consistent offensive threat, than what's the point? Either WCS is going to bring it every night offensively or be a defensive strength. One or the other. Preferably both, even though I don't think he has the BBIQ to handle both. If WCS looking to make 18-20/5. Right Now he's worth 10-12 per and I wouldn't pay him a dime over that.
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Who would you sign in his place?
 
Russell Pimphustler said:
My whole point of this thread is that listening to ginger blowhard made me realize that I would give Hield up for Bridges. And only Bridges. But I was curious to see what others thought of his value as obviously Bogie is the better overall player.
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I would say they are different types of players. A team needs several good players.
 
KingsSelecao said:
I need to see 18-10 for the rest of the season. Better rebounding, better defense and some outside game. Every great big in this league has it. Otherwise, No point in offering him a ridiculous extension. If he can't be a defensive anchor, nor a consistent offensive threat, than what's the point? Either WCS is going to bring it every night offensively or be a defensive strength. One or the other. Preferably both, even though I don't think he has the BBIQ to handle both. If WCS looking to make 18-20/5. Right Now he's worth 10-12 per and I wouldn't pay him a dime over that.
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Some of you guys have some really high expectations. 18 and 10? Really. Right now there are only 4 PF/C in the league putting up those numbers; DMC, A. Davis, Embiid, and KAT. If WCS can put up those numbers in the 26 minutes a night he is currently playing, dude should get paid and much more than 15/20 a year. He’s not going to put up those numbers though. We shouldn’t overpay for WCS, I agree with that. I just find it crazy some of the expectations thrown out there for him. I think he’s a nice player, I don’t think he is a franchise player. I do think he could be a valuable piece for a team competing in the playoffs.
 
LoungeLizard said:
Some of you guys have some really high expectations. 18 and 10? Really. Right now there are only 4 PF/C in the league putting up those numbers; DMC, A. Davis, Embiid, and KAT. If WCS can put up those numbers in the 26 minutes a night he is currently playing, dude should get paid and much more than 15/20 a year. He’s not going to put up those numbers though. We shouldn’t overpay for WCS, I agree with that. I just find it crazy some of the expectations thrown out there for him. I think he’s a nice player, I don’t think he is a franchise player. I do think he could be a valuable piece for a team competing in the playoffs.
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If Hield doesn't average 35/5/5 for the rest of the season we should trade him for cash considerations
 
I just posted a thread on De'Aaron Fox at the mid-season point and thought I'd comment on Bogie in this thread.

I had lofty expectations of BOGDAN coming into the season based upon everything I had seen and read about him. After all, he'd been playing at a high level in a highly competitive league against grown men.

Early on, I was slightly underwhelmed, specifically with his jumper which I had expected to be much better. But I chalked it up to fatigue and adjusting to a new country, city, league and teammates. Looks like I was right. Because in recent weeks Bogie has really shown us what he brings to the table. He's a jack of all trades. The kid can shoot, score, pass, and defend. He can do whatever the teams needs. And he's good at all of it.

Most of all, I really like that he seemingly plays with a chip on his shoulder. He's tough and won't back down. He plays with bold confidence. Even better, he's a team player that always looks to make the right play. That last point can't be understated.

In summary, I am extremely pleased with what we've seen from him 1/2 way through his rookie season. He's become one of my favorites on the team. I just don't understand why he's not always on the floor when the game is on the line. He should be.

I just hope we don't lose this kid to San Antonio a few seasons down the line.
 
KingsFanSince85 said:
I just posted a thread on De'Aaron Fox at the mid-season point and thought I'd comment on Bogie in this thread.

I had lofty expectations of BOGDAN coming into the season based upon everything I had seen and read about him. After all, he'd been playing at a high level in a highly competitive league against grown men.

Early on, I was slightly underwhelmed, specifically with his jumper which I had expected to be much better. But I chalked it up to fatigue and adjusting to a new country, city, league and teammates. Looks like I was right. Because in recent weeks Bogie has really shown us what he brings to the table. He's a jack of all trades. The kid can shoot, score, pass, and defend. He can do whatever the teams needs. And he's good at all of it.

Most of all, I really like that he seemingly plays with a chip on his shoulder. He's tough and won't back down. He plays with bold confidence. Even better, he's a team player that always looks to make the right play. That last point can't be understated.

In summary, I am extremely pleased with what we've seen from him 1/2 way through his rookie season. He's become one of my favorites on the team. I just don't understand why he's not always on the floor when the game is on the line. He should be.

I just hope we don't lose this kid to San Antonio a few seasons down the line.
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Bogie is tremendous. Need to give Vlade props on the deal even if your not a fan of Vlade's moves. I'm not opposed to Vlade adding additional Euro's to the roster as the years go...getting Doncic would be tremendous in keeping Bogie here in Sac in the future.
 
LoungeLizard said:
If 10 boards, 2 blocks, 2 steals is your bar for WCS then I’m afraid you’re never going to be happy. Those are some pretty damn elite numbers. So elite in fact, that there hasn’t been a single player to put up those averages in the last 17 years atleast (that’s as far back that I looked). The only player that came close to your expectations for WCS was Ben Wallace who for a 4 year stretch from 2000-2004 was able to average 10+ boards, 2+ blocks, but only 1.3-1.7 steals.

I agree with needing more from WCS on a consistant basis. This season he’s putting up 12 pts, 6.5 reb, .9 steals and .8 blocks in 26 min/game. That’s not a ton of minutes, the only number he should be markedly better in with those minutes are his rebounding.
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This my whole problem with WCS. At half time against Thunder, he has played 19 of the possible 24 minutes and in 19 minutes he had 1 solitary rebound. Can you build a perennial play off team around WCS as you main big man? I am not convinced. This is not the first time this has happened. Unfortunately, its far too regular occurrence with Willie. He get his ass kicked then he goes out gets 10+ rebounds in the next 2-3 games then reverts back to the 4 rebounds for the next couple of games. Just not dependable enough. For this team, the big man needs to be an absolute vacuum cleaner on the boards.
 
Čarolija said:
This my whole problem with WCS. At half time against Thunder, he has played 19 of the possible 24 minutes and in 19 minutes he had 1 solitary rebound. Can you build a perennial play off team around WCS as you main big man? I am not convinced. This is not the first time this has happened. Unfortunately, its far too regular occurrence with Willie. He get his ass kicked then he goes out gets 10+ rebounds in the next 2-3 games then reverts back to the 4 rebounds for the next couple of games. Just not dependable enough. For this team, the big man needs to be an absolute vacuum cleaner on the boards.
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I don’t disagree with you. As your main big? No. As a complimentary big, absolutely. He ended up playing 40 minutes last night, had 15 pts, 7 boards, 3 assists, 3 steals, 0 blocks and was actually a +4 overall. Hopefully with the recent announcement of Joerger resting the vets here on out and playing the young guys we will see WCS get 35-38 min a night (40 might be too much). That should provide a pretty adequate sample size to get an idea of what we’ll get night in night out. My feeling is Willie is a 15-17 pt, 7-8 board, 1 steal, 1 block a night player. I feel like that’s a pretty nice #3 or #4. The question is, who’s going to be our #1 and #2? Could Fox end up being one of those? Hopefully. Maybe Bagley or another top 3 (fingers crossed) pick. We still have to consider Gules as well. Still a lot of questions to be answered.
 
LoungeLizard said:
I don’t disagree with you. As your main big? No. As a complimentary big, absolutely. He ended up playing 40 minutes last night, had 15 pts, 7 boards, 3 assists, 3 steals, 0 blocks and was actually a +4 overall. Hopefully with the recent announcement of Joerger resting the vets here on out and playing the young guys we will see WCS get 35-38 min a night (40 might be too much). That should provide a pretty adequate sample size to get an idea of what we’ll get night in night out. My feeling is Willie is a 15-17 pt, 7-8 board, 1 steal, 1 block a night player. I feel like that’s a pretty nice #3 or #4. The question is, who’s going to be our #1 and #2? Could Fox end up being one of those? Hopefully. Maybe Bagley or another top 3 (fingers crossed) pick. We still have to consider Gules as well. Still a lot of questions to be answered.
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And this is where my thinking comes in.

WCS will be in contract year next season and there will be a team that will drop a big contract on him (close to MAX if not MAX). Should the Kings be spending that much money at this stage of the rebuild on a player who is not going to be the #1 big on a good to very good team? I am not convinced that they should.
 
I guess Bogdanovic has been playing pretty well...

December: .614 TS% / .496 FG% / .409 3PT% / .680 FT% / 14.7 PPG / 3.7 RPG / 4.4 APG / 1.4 SPG / 0.3 BPG / 2.5 TOPG
January: .691 TS% / .548 FG% / .586 3PT% / .913 FT% / 18.9 PPG / 4.1 RPG / 4.4 APG / 0.9 S{G / 0.0 BPG / 1.7 TOPG
Dec-Jan: .645 TS% / .516 FG% / .463 3PT% / .792 FT% / 16.3 PPG / 3.8 RPG / 4.4 APG / 1.2 SPG / 0.2 BPG / 2.2 TOPG
*per36 min
 
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