Restart the rebuild around Boogie?

[Bricklayer]

Jesus.

You did not just compare Rondo to Wall and Westbrook..... Talk about cherry picking stats to try and construct a misconstrued narrative..

Cherry picking stats?

Who the heck do you think Rajon Rondo is? This is a former NBA champion and 4x All Star about to win his 4th ast crown. Before the knee injury there were even people asking if he was going to make the HOF. His assists and passing numbers are a career long feature and as far from cherry picked as they can get.

Rajon Rondo is on pace to finish in the Top 20 all time in assists. With any longetivity at all he'll finish the game with more assists than Bob ****ing Cousy. With good longetivity he might even crack the Top 10. He has 5481 career assists, and is already over 700 assists this season in only 59 games. If he does no more than get another 2000 assists in his career he will be at 7481, pass Maurice Cheeks, and be #12 all time in assists (or likely #13 because LeBron will probably reach that mark first).

If he signs a contract with us that could likely happen here.

Talking passing stats about Rondo is as legit as talking scoring stats for Durant.

 

[funkykingston]

So again, it comes down to does resigning Rondo make us better next year (now that we have, once again, debunked the 'Cousins will be upset argument'). Again, I'm pretty neutral on Rondo. I can go either way on letting him walk or resigning him. If we are going to keep him, then Gay has to go. To optimize a Cousins/Rondo tandem, you need defenders and shooters in the starting lineup next to them. If you resign Rondo to around 16 mil in the first year, trade Belinelli for cap, trade Koufos/2016 1st for Ariza, trade Gay for T. Evans, & trade Collison/McLemore for Gibson/Snell, that leaves us with $18 mil in cap space. From there, you look to sign Crabbe or C. Lee with your cap space and use the MLE on Aldrich.

PG - Rondo (36 min)/Evans (12 min)/Curry
SG - Lee (26 min)/Evans (22 min)/Snell
SF - Ariza (32 min)/Casspi (16 min)/Anderson
PF - Cauley-Stein (16 min)/Gibson (26 min)/Casspi (6 min)Acy
C - Cousins (36 min)/Cauley-Stein (12 min)/Aldrich

Cousins - 36 min
Rondo - 36 min
Evans - 34 min
Ariza - 32 min
Cauley-Stein - 28 min
Lee - 26 min
Gibson - 26 min
Casspi - 22 min

I'd be excited to root for that team next year.

You've posted these ideas a few times and some moves I can be on board with, but any scenario that pairs Rondo & Tyreke is a non-starter IMO. Two guys who are poor outside shooters and really need the ball in their hands to be effective is going to be a train wreck.

If the Kings want to move forward with Rondo/Cousins I think the rest of the roster needs to be relatively low usage shooters & defenders and ideally do both. Hopefully a couple being great athletes that can score in transition and cuts to the basket on Rondo dishes and alley oops.

 

[206Fan]

I think it's a pretty poor year to draft a PG. The Balwin and Dunn are the only guys I like and I think Baldwin likely ends up as a backup PG in the NBA. I like Dunn. I think people need to stop comparing him to John Wall. Dunn doesn't have that kind of quickness. He's not an explosive athlete either. To me he's more like Mudiay without the busted shot.

I'm really high on Dunn, Jackson, and Baldwin.

Dunn doesn't resemble John Wall imo. He's not going to be as good as Wall, but in his first year, I think he can be defensive specialist with a ton of raw potential on offense. He's already 21/22, but he's still got a lot of room left to grow mostly due to his athleticism and quickness. He doesn't have as much as Wall, but I'd say it's just a step down. They will end up as completely different players, but I can see Dunn logging in triple/doubles at the next level. They're different all around...I don't get the comparison either. I think if Dunn improves his 3pt shooting to around 38 or 39% in the NBA, he'll be a top 5 PG. He has it all, he's just raw on offense right now. Plays a bit erratic at times.

Baldwin is a great shooter with good size. He's the prototype PG for today's game. He's a great shooter who can create. I'd argue that his scoring game has gone down lately because he's been asked to be more of a facilitator. The only thing that concerns me is his lack of finishing ability, but the good thing is that he draws FTs at a very good rate. He can be a lock-down defender who can shoot lights out. He has good athleticism and quickness. Mike Conley had made it as a starting PG through his defense and mediocre scoring+shooting+playmaking...I think Baldwin can do the same.

Jackson can be a good starting PG like Eric Bledsoe despite him only being 6'1. He's my favorite PG in this draft because of how explosive he is...however, I wouldn't draft him because his size limits his defensive impact. (The Kings desperately need a lockdown perimeter defender at PG). He does everything you want: He can attack and finish. He's a great shooter. He's a very good distributor. If he were 2inches taller, he'd probably be the consensus best PG in this draft.

It's a good draft. I think Dunn would be above Mudiay, but not Russell.

 

[jcwkings]

I would rather have Isaiah Thomas than Rondo, especially in today's NBA. Rondo might be a great passer, but he pounds the ball a ton on most possessions and is only a threat to shoot as a spot shooter in the corner. His effort on defense is putrid on most nights and gambles way too much for steals. Cousins just gets blitzed in the post, mainly because teams always treat Rondo as a mannequin. We really should see more high post action with Cousins being a facilitator, that is the best spot for him because he is two dribbles away from the hoop, can shoot the midrange shot and can pass. Also Rondo NEEDS to play in an up tempo system to get the kind of production we are seeing from him assist wise. I think we can all agree a team built around Cousins should play at a more modest pace.

Basically we are backed into a corner, either build around the core we have right now and try and make the eighth seed or blow it up(yes that means trading Cousins and going young). I look at a team like Denver and I love what they are doing. They have drafted well and now have building blocks for the future. Mudiay, Jokic, Harris, Barton, Nurkic with some vets like Faried, Gallinari. They are really one all star level piece away from being a playoff contender, Malone has those boys playing hard.

We are incapable of doing that, this franchise is a complete mess, drafts poorly, develops players poorly, culture is just filth.

 

[Bricklayer]

I would rather have Isaiah Thomas than Rondo, especially in today's NBA. Rondo might be a great passer, but he pounds the ball a ton on most possessions and is only a threat to shoot as a spot shooter in the corner. His effort on defense is putrid on most nights and gambles way too much for steals. Cousins just gets blitzed in the post, mainly because teams always treat Rondo as a mannequin. We really should see more high post action with Cousins being a facilitator, that is the best spot for him because he is two dribbles away from the hoop, can shoot the midrange shot and can pass. Also Rondo NEEDS to play in an up tempo system to get the kind of production we are seeing from him assist wise. I think we can all agree a team built around Cousins should play at a more modest pace.

That is considerably untrue about Rondo needing pace.

Before this season nobody thought Rondo COULD play in an uptempo system. The three previous seasons that he broke 11 assists a game, his team's pace was 22nd, 21st, and 16th.

If anything its impressive that he is versatile enough to play at this pace too. Part of our oil and water was supposed to be Karl screaming pace! apce! pace! while Rondo walked it up.

 

[twslam07]

You've posted these ideas a few times and some moves I can be on board with, but any scenario that pairs Rondo & Tyreke is a non-starter IMO. Two guys who are poor outside shooters and really need the ball in their hands to be effective is going to be a train wreck.

If the Kings want to move forward with Rondo/Cousins I think the rest of the roster needs to be relatively low usage shooters & defenders and ideally do both. Hopefully a couple being great athletes that can score in transition and cuts to the basket on Rondo dishes and alley oops.

I wouldn't be so quick to judge...

For starters, Evans comes off the bench which helps stagger the minutes they are on the floor together which allows both to have the ball in their hands as much as possible.

Secondly, both Rondo & Evans have been respectable from long range this year (Rondo - 36% & Evans - 39%). Going even further, they are even better catch & shoot players from three (Rondo - 39% & Evans 42%). On top of it, Rondo is averaging over 2 attempts per game while Evans is averaging over 3 a game. These aren't small sample sizes we're dealing with. Looking at last year, Evans shot 36% on catch % shoot threes while Rondo shot 35%. Not as good as this year, but not bad either. In addition to how well they have shot the three ball, their hot spots seem to compliment each other pretty well. Rondo prefers the corner while Evans prefers the arc/perimeter.

I think you may be surprised with how it would turn out.

 

[The_Jamal]

Cherry picking stats?

Who the heck do you think Rajon Rondo is? This is a former NBA champion and 4x All Star about to win his 4th ast crown. Before the knee injury there were even people asking if he was going to make the HOF. His assists and passing numbers are a career long feature and as far from cherry picked as they can get.

Rajon Rondo is on pace to finish in the Top 20 all time in assists. With any longetivity at all he'll finish the game with more assists than Bob ****ing Cousy. With good longetivity he might even crack the Top 10. He has 5481 career assists, and is already over 700 assists this season in only 59 games. If he does no more than get another 2000 assists in his career he will be at 7481, pass Maurice Cheeks, and be #12 all time in assists (or likely #13 because LeBron will probably reach that mark first).

If he signs a contract with us that could likely happen here.

Talking passing stats about Rondo is as legit as talking scoring stats for Durant.

Again... huh???

If we were in the 2009 season heading into the 2010 year getting ready to resign that Rondo, sure, I might buy that narrative. But that Rondo also played with fire on every possession. He got in your face on defense and garnered the reputation as one of the top PG defenders in the game.

But that's not who he is anymore. He's far worse than IT ever was on defense, and he got crucified on this board daily. IT was and still isn't a good defender, but at least you'd see him go try and make stops every once in awhile. Baja already pointed it out, but he gets caught just standing there most of the time and letting our defense get broken down far too easily. You could make the argument that if the offensive contribution were enough that you could live with the defensive short-comings. But they really aren't. We're 1.4 points better with him on the floor. We're 2% more efficient. 1% better at rebounding. Are those worth one of the worst shooting and defensive PG's in the league? (The answer is no by the way)

Rondo made it work because he was one of the best defenders, playmakers, rebounders and competitiors at the PG position in his prime. With 2 of those 4 things gone, he's not even close to being a franchise building block anymore.

*I'll also just pretend not to notice that you just compared Rondo's impact as a passer to Durant's impact as a scorer... sheesh*

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I wouldn't be so quick to judge...

For starters, Evans comes off the bench which helps stagger the minutes they are on the floor together which allows both to have the ball in their hands as much as possible.

Evans comes off the bench for who?

 

[funkykingston]

I wouldn't be so quick to judge...

For starters, Evans comes off the bench which helps stagger the minutes they are on the floor together which allows both to have the ball in their hands as much as possible.

Secondly, both Rondo & Evans have been respectable from long range this year (Rondo - 36% & Evans - 39%). Going even further, they are even better catch & shoot players from three (Rondo - 39% & Evans 42%). On top of it, Rondo is averaging over 2 attempts per game while Evans is averaging over 3 a game. These aren't small sample sizes we're dealing with. Looking at last year, Evans shot 36% on catch % shoot threes while Rondo shot 35%. Not as good as this year, but not bad either. In addition to how well they have shot the three ball, their hot spots seem to compliment each other pretty well. Rondo prefers the corner while Evans prefers the arc/perimeter.

I think you may be surprised with how it would turn out.

Take a look at the average distance of the closest defender on threes by Rondo and Evans. And see how many of their attempts are classified as wide open. Opponents are dating them to shoot. If Steph Curry got the looks those guys get he'd average 50 a game.

Both guys have gotten respectable with their shot but they still aren't good shooters. Teams sag off Evans to prevent the drive. Teams sag off Rondo because they'd rather take their chances with him beating them with outside shots.

 

[Bricklayer]

Again... huh???

If we were in the 2009 season heading into the 2010 year getting ready to resign that Rondo, sure, I might buy that narrative. But that Rondo also played with fire on every possession. He got in your face on defense and garnered the reputation as one of the top PG defenders in the game.

But that's not who he is anymore. He's far worse than IT ever was on defense, and he got crucified on this board daily. IT was and still isn't a good defender, but at least you'd see him go try and make stops every once in awhile. Baja already pointed it out, but he gets caught just standing there most of the time and letting our defense get broken down far too easily. You could make the argument that if the offensive contribution were enough that you could live with the defensive short-comings. But they really aren't. We're 1.4 points better with him on the floor. We're 2% more efficient. 1% better at rebounding. Are those worth one of the worst shooting and defensive PG's in the league? (The answer is no by the way)

Rondo made it work because he was one of the best defenders, playmakers, rebounders and competitiors at the PG position in his prime. With 2 of those 4 things gone, he's not even close to being a franchise building block anymore.

*I'll also just pretend not to notice that you just compared Rondo's impact as a passer to Durant's impact as a scorer... sheesh*

This is Rajon Rondo from the year before he blew out the knee (2011-12):

36.9min 11.9pts (.448 .238 .597) 4.8reb 11.7ast 1.8stl 0.1blk 3.6TO .481TS% 17.5PER

this is Rondo now:

35.3min 11.9pts (.451 .358 .566) 6.2reb 12.0ast 2.0stl 0.2blk 3.9TO .500TS% 17.2PER


So yes, truly titanic falloff.



The defense is the thing. Then again a) the defense is highly unlikely to be dramatically upgraded by a starting quality PG except in fantasy Mike-Conley- comes-here-despite-having-max-offers-thrown-at-him-by-a-dozen-better-franchises scenarios. And b) the defense might be the only thing keeping Rajon Rondo, 4x All Star and NBA champ, from turning his back and mooning Sacramento on his way out of town to a championship contender.

In our world, we've got 3/4 of what Rajon was still very much active, and while people keep on saying it again and again, we've also got him quite possibly doing the J-Kidd and developing a late career 3pt shot.

 

[Bricklayer]

BTW, remember the galvanizing effect the arrival of Doug Christie and Bobby Jackson in one offseason had on our defense, because I guarantee you Vlade does and will be looking for something similar.

Remember as well the similar effect the arrival of Brian Grant and Michael Smith had in the mid 90s on the defense. The only two stretches of good defense played in the 30 year Sacramento history, and in both cases largely brought about by the addition of just a few defensive leaders. Doesn't take a full rebuild. Like polishing silver, or cutting a diamond.

 

[hrdboild]

I would rather have Isaiah Thomas than Rondo, especially in today's NBA. Rondo might be a great passer, but he pounds the ball a ton on most possessions and is only a threat to shoot as a spot shooter in the corner. His effort on defense is putrid on most nights and gambles way too much for steals. Cousins just gets blitzed in the post, mainly because teams always treat Rondo as a mannequin. We really should see more high post action with Cousins being a facilitator, that is the best spot for him because he is two dribbles away from the hoop, can shoot the midrange shot and can pass. Also Rondo NEEDS to play in an up tempo system to get the kind of production we are seeing from him assist wise. I think we can all agree a team built around Cousins should play at a more modest pace.

Basically we are backed into a corner, either build around the core we have right now and try and make the eighth seed or blow it up(yes that means trading Cousins and going young). I look at a team like Denver and I love what they are doing. They have drafted well and now have building blocks for the future. Mudiay, Jokic, Harris, Barton, Nurkic with some vets like Faried, Gallinari. They are really one all star level piece away from being a playoff contender, Malone has those boys playing hard.

We are incapable of doing that, this franchise is a complete mess, drafts poorly, develops players poorly, culture is just filth.

I get the criticisms of Rondo's wavering defensive effort -- though some of this is overstated. I heard the same complaint about Isaiah Thomas and Darren Collison getting Cousins in foul trouble by losing their man and there's a point at which someone needs to say that NBA basketball is primarily pick and roll and there's really no way you can expect an individual defender to stop the ball in a pick and roll situation. Yes the guard can make it more difficult for the ballhandler by fighting over screens but teams that rely heavily on pick and roll will re-pick you over and over again until they create separation. The big needs to call out the screen and hedge properly to allow the guard a chance to recover. If Rondo is straight up getting crossed in the open court over and over again this would have more weight with me. I agree his overall effort is lacking -- particularly on closeouts -- but teams aren't treating him like a mannequin, they're sending a screen at him to eliminate him from the play and he isn't quick or aggressive enough to recover. This is a common problem. More often than not we just switch on the screens which leads to bigger problems because it makes it really easy for the offense to create one-on-one mismatches.

The pounding the ball complaint though is a complete mystery to me. What do you expect a PG to do? Dribbling is a part of the game and Rondo isn't eating up 20 seconds of shot clock looking for his shot, he's getting to a spot and waiting for the best opportunity to feed the ball to an open teammate. I don't recall John Stockton or Steve Nash being criticized for "pounding the ball". Is Princeton offense the only offense which Kings fans want to see? That's a beautiful system when you have 5 players who can execute it well but we haven't had that here since Webber was traded. And looking around the league, I don't see any other teams that have that either.

 

[hrdboild]

I would assume those remarks are meant for:

John Wall (4.0TO, 2.5Ast/TO ratio, .338 3pt%)
Westbrook (4.2TO, 2.5Ast/TO, ratio, .296 3pt%)

more than
Rondo (3.9TO, 3.1Ast/TO ratio, .358 3pt%)


And forget about Conley. Unless there's some connection I don't know about, he has absolutely no reason to go to Sacramento.

You want more realistic try to woo Thibs with Cuz/Rondo/WCS, then offer him old stalwarts like Noah and Deng in free agency while using Koufos and Gay to bring back other pieces. That is unlikely to happen either, but at least has a certain logical plan symetry to it.

You're missing a key detail here: those two players don't play for the Kings. That means their "magic bean" potential remains fully intact.

 

[ParniValjak]

People keep bringing up Rondo's defense which has been troublesome this season but, it's more about the defensive system tat we have in place. Great defensive teams manage to hide questionable defenders in their system to the point where they don't hurt you.

We literally have the tools with shotblockers (WCS, KK and DMC to a degree) that allows us to have 2 bigs that can rotate to erase perimeter mistakes without leaving the perimeter open. I am sure what Vlade intended but something that Karl has no interest in implementing.

 

[jcassio]

Rondo not to be resigned. As many others have pointed out, poor defense is unacceptable going forward.
Gay gets traded for the best overall shooting guard we can get. Will miss Gay's offense, but not his inconsistent effort on D.
Collison/Curry are the King's PGs in 2016-17. Both are much better defenders and shooters than Rondo.
McLemore either gets traded or becomes the backup shooting guard. But I would give him 35 min/game for the remainder of this season to see if he can find the player within.
Belinelli gets traded. Maybe along with Gay to enhance our prospects for a good shooting guard. I do think this season was a fluke for him, but I've seen enough of him in a Kings uniform, and now I just want him gone.
Casspi has a 2-yr contract, right? Good, then he's the backup small forward in 2016-17.
Caulie-Stein gets 35 min/game for the remainder of this season. If Karl can't accept this, he can walk (limp) away now.
Eric Moreland and Duje Dukan are the 11th and 12th players in 2016-17.
Cousins is our center and all-around big guy.
Koufos is our backup center unless/until we can find someone better. I think Cole Aldrich is better, actually. I think Moreland, if he can stay healthy, will overtake Koufos for the backup center job by next year's All Star break.
So going by need, we most need a quality small forward and a stretch power forward, but both need to be competent defenders.
This, with the right coach, will be our best chance at respectability.

 

[Ron]

I would assume those remarks are meant for:

John Wall (4.0TO, 2.5Ast/TO ratio, .338 3pt%)
Westbrook (4.2TO, 2.5Ast/TO, ratio, .296 3pt%)

more than
Rondo (3.9TO, 3.1Ast/TO ratio, .358 3pt%)


And forget about Conley. Unless there's some connection I don't know about, he has absolutely no reason to go to Sacramento.

You want more realistic try to woo Thibs with Cuz/Rondo/WCS, then offer him old stalwarts like Noah and Deng in free agency while using Koufos and Gay to bring back other pieces. That is unlikely to happen either, but at least has a certain logical plan symetry to it.

Let me add my 2 cents of stats in the D section:

If you agree that our major problem is opponents lighting us up from 3, then you should note that Tracking Defense shows that Rondo lowers his 36% three-point-shooting opponents to 34.5% level (and that's on a solid/huge sample of 264 attempts) - see here
Whereas John Wall does the opposite -
35.5 => 36.4 (see here),
and Westbrook tops everyone by turning good 36.9% shooters into 39.5% snipers! (here).
These are facts & stats.

Now, I know all about the eye-test and all...
and in addition - pinpointed 3pt defense is not our only problem, and Rondo DID lose some quickness to defend drives.
But still - at least SOME of the criticism about his D is unfounded.

 

[twslam07]

Take a look at the average distance of the closest defender on threes by Rondo and Evans. And see how many of their attempts are classified as wide open. Opponents are dating them to shoot. If Steph Curry got the looks those guys get he'd average 50 a game.

I don't really see anything that stands out. Yeah, they are never going to be a Durant or Curry who comes up the court and drains a three right in your face but they don't have to be to make it work. They just have to punish the defense for sagging off of them which both of them have proven they can do this year.

2-4 ft (Tight)
Evans: 0.5 3PA / 23%
Rondo: 0.4 3PA / 29%
---------------------------------------
D. Collison: 0.6 3PA / 24%
E. Gordon: 0.5 3PA / 26%
L. James: 0.5 3PA / 16%
Ilyasova: 0.5 3PA / 23%
Crabbe: 0.5 3PA / 20%
Fournier: 0.4 3PA / 24%
P. Patterson: 0.4 3PA / 19%
R. Anderson: 0.4 3PA / 12%

I didn't expect either of these guys to shoot well while being tightly guarded, and frankly, I don't want them taking this shot either. However, just because they aren't a good 3pt shooter when a man is 2-4 ft away doesn't mean they can't coexist. I included a list of players who shot a similar amount of threes under these circumstances and had a similar percentages. I cherry picked players who are known as good 3pt shooter (except Lebron). Again, they don't need to be Curry, Durant, Harden, Thompson, Korver, or Redick to coexist but asking them to be a good shooter under these circumstances is essentially asking them to be that type of player. We just need the defense to respect them.

Bottom line, if the defense is guarding them this tightly, then they have done their job and the defense is respecting their shot.

4-6 ft (Open)
Evans: 1.3 3PA / 46%
Rondo: 0.8 3PA / 33%
---------------------------------------
D. Booker: 1.4 3PA / 39%
Casspi: 1.4 sPA / 41%
P. Patterson: 1.4 3PA / 29%
Afflalo: 1.4 3PA / 43%
Irving: 1.4 3PA / 43%
Terry: 1.3 3PA / 33%
M. Leonard: 1.3 3PA / 29%
A. Brooks: 1.3 3PA / 27%
Morrow: 1.3 3PA / 35%
McLemore: 0.9 3PA / 32%
Teague: 0.9 3PA / 30%
H. Barnes: 0.7 3PA / 33%

It looks like Evans is pretty darn deadly when given this space. Rondo...not so much but 33% isn't completely horrible especially considering it's at the same level or above Patterson, Terry, M. Leonard, A. Brooks, McLemore, Teague, & H. Barnes

6+ ft (Wide Open)
Evans: 1.5 3PA / 40%
Rondo: 1.0 3PA / 39%
---------------------------------------
Conley: 1.6 3PA / 38%
J. Johnson: 1.5 3PA / 39%
R. Hood: 1.4 3PA / 40%
D. Ruseell: 1.4 3PA / 40%
Jr. Holiday: 1.4 3PA / 36%
Ibaka: 1.4 3PA / 38%
Ginobli: 1.3 3PA / 37%
I. Thomas: 1.0 3PA / 40%
Lin: 1.0 3PA / 34%
Barton: 0.9 3PA / 36%
J. Crawford: 0.9 3PA / 34%
Foye: 0.9 3PA / 40%

Both shoot well when left wide open and can punish defenses.

Both guys have gotten respectable with their shot but they still aren't good shooters. Teams sag off Evans to prevent the drive. Teams sag off Rondo because they'd rather take their chances with him beating them with outside shots.

See now you're getting into something completely different. Their coexistence on the court does not come down to how much their man sags off of them when they have the ball in their hands (that is an element that makes it more or less challenging for that particular player to get to where he wants to on the court). It comes down to how much their man sags off of them when they don't have the ball in their hands, and the data shows that if one of them gets the defense to commit/collapse, the other can punish them and knock down an open 3.

Again, the data this year supports my claim that this pairing could potentially work.

 

[twslam07]

Evans comes off the bench for who?

For Rondo & Courtney Lee. Keep up, S£im...

 

[biltalent]

This is Rajon Rondo from the year before he blew out the knee (2011-12):

36.9min 11.9pts (.448 .238 .597) 4.8reb 11.7ast 1.8stl 0.1blk 3.6TO .481TS% 17.5PER

this is Rondo now:

35.3min 11.9pts (.451 .358 .566) 6.2reb 12.0ast 2.0stl 0.2blk 3.9TO .500TS% 17.2PER


So yes, truly titanic falloff.



The defense is the thing. Then again a) the defense is highly unlikely to be dramatically upgraded by a starting quality PG except in fantasy Mike-Conley- comes-here-despite-having-max-offers-thrown-at-him-by-a-dozen-better-franchises scenarios. And b) the defense might be the only thing keeping Rajon Rondo, 4x All Star and NBA champ, from turning his back and mooning Sacramento on his way out of town to a championship contender.

In our world, we've got 3/4 of what Rajon was still very much active, and while people keep on saying it again and again, we've also got him quite possibly doing the J-Kidd and developing a late career 3pt shot.

Re his defense:
It's interesting that people tend to easily forget how good Rondo was on defense before the injury.
Watch here as he defends LBJ

So the argument that he can't defend is just not valid. Even this year we have seen him play great defense on Curry and Dirk. But he chooses when to play like this. And I think that is what pisses fans off. But thats the thing with him: When he feels challenged and there is much at stake he is going to rise to the occassion. Now the question is not "do we resign him?" but "after resigning him, how can we get him to give effort in normal games?" because you know that he is going to step it up in the playoffs.
So these are the essential things we should ask regarding Rondo's D:
- will he be an at least average defender every night when there is a coaching staff that he respects and that pushes him to be a good defender (f.e. Thibs)?
- will he spend more energy on defense when he does not play 35 mins at the highest pace in the league?
- with the security of a long term contract in place and being one more year healthy after his horrible injury, will he be more willing and more confident to sacrifice his body for defense?

 

[Ron]

Re his defense:
...So the argument that he can't defend is just not valid. Even this year we have seen him play great defense on Curry and Dirk. But he chooses when to play like this. And I think that is what pisses fans off. But thats the thing with him: When he feels challenged and there is much at stake he is going to rise to the occassion. Now the question is not "do we resign him?" but "after resigning him, how can we get him to give effort in normal games?" because you know that he is going to step it up in the playoffs.
So these are the essential things we should ask regarding Rondo's D:
- will he be an at least average defender every night when there is a coaching staff that he respects and that pushes him to be a good defender (f.e. Thibs)?
- will he spend more energy on defense when he does not play 35 mins at the highest pace in the league?
- with the security of a long term contract in place and being one more year healthy after his horrible injury, will he be more willing and more confident to sacrifice his body for defense?

I agree with your analysis in most parts, but it's not all CHOICE. It's not just the WILL to defend.

You should note that some system and team factors may effect the perceived or actual effort on D:

1. Pushing a murderous pace may leave players exhausted to the point of seeming less "willing" to defend, "choosing" their defensive battles, or "choosing" to stop for a breath. (Thanks, GK)

2. Playinģ veterans for excessive minutes may have the same effect
(I believe Rondo is the only player in the league to complete a full game without ever subbing-out, once or twice this year)

3. Bad defensive schemes have a double negative impact:
a) They lead to bad and seemingly effort-lacking D in themselves, and
b) They frustrate the players (starting out with effort but still failing, due to system), and may lead them to give up the effort as it seems futile.

 

[biltalent]

I agree with your analysis in most parts, but it's not all CHOICE. It's not just the WILL to defend.

You should note that some system and team factors may effect the perceived or actual effort on D:

1. Pushing a murderous pace may leave players exhausted to the point of seeming less "willing" to defend, "choosing" their defensive battles, or "choosing" to stop for a breath. (Thanks, GK)

2. Playinģ veterans for excessive minutes may have the same effect
(I believe Rondo is the only player in the league to complete a full game without ever subbing-out, once or twice this year)

3. Bad defensive schemes have a double megative impact:
a) They lead to bad and seemingly effort-lacking D in themselves, and
b) They frustrate the players (starting out with effort but still failing, due to system), and may lead them to give up the effort as it seems futile.

I agree with you 100% and please don't get me wrong, I certaintenly didn't want to imply that Karls schemes do any good. I actually started threads calling out his offensive and defensive schemes in late december/january. His coaching has been so bad this year that I don't even bother thinking about it and every scenario I think of has as premise that he is fired immediately as soon as the season is over.

 

[KingMilz]

• Why do people want to trade Darren? He's an great backup PG who can start for you when needed.

On a great contract also

 

[randymoss1881]

Love love love the idea of Gay for Evans while letting rondo go. The question is do we bring him in here to play pg or SG. If say SG while giving curry back up pg minuets but with 1 of Evans it DC on the floor to handle pg duties. DC 34mpg, Evans 34mpg, curry 20mpg. Follow this by trading KK/Ben/2nd if we have one for Gibson. Than throw the max at Barnes or Batum (y'all can come at me if u disagree and I'll explain why.

Collison/curry
Evans/marco
Batumn/Casspi
Gibson/acy
DMC/WCS

Those starters are all good defenders and we'd have solid spacing. The bench has potential also with 2 shooters (marco/Casspi) (yes give marco a chance under a sane coach).
And 2 energy guys in WCS and Acy.
Also u think Evans is a better #2 to DMC than Gay cause you need a dribble penetrator to succeed which Gay isn't. HIRE BLATT


PS **** YOU PDA for letting IT/Evans go and having 0 to show for it.

 

[KingMilz]

With Evans injury history why would we bring him in? I would rather Lance Stephensen at a discount price who once again has shown on a team where he can somewhat dominate the ball he can be super effective off the bench while he is a idiot he's a idiot who does compete. While Reke is way better he's injured literally every week it seems

 

[twslam07]

Love love love the idea of Gay for Evans while letting rondo go. The question is do we bring him in here to play pg or SG. If say SG while giving curry back up pg minuets but with 1 of Evans it DC on the floor to handle pg duties. DC 34mpg, Evans 34mpg, curry 20mpg. Follow this by trading KK/Ben/2nd if we have one for Gibson. Than throw the max at Barnes or Batum (y'all can come at me if u disagree and I'll explain why.

Collison/curry
Evans/marco
Batumn/Casspi
Gibson/acy
DMC/WCS

Those starters are all good defenders and we'd have solid spacing. The bench has potential also with 2 shooters (marco/Casspi) (yes give marco a chance under a sane coach).
And 2 energy guys in WCS and Acy.
Also u think Evans is a better #2 to DMC than Gay cause you need a dribble penetrator to succeed which Gay isn't. HIRE BLATT


PS **** YOU PDA for letting IT/Evans go and having 0 to show for it.

I explained a little earlier why it could work with both Rondo & Evans, but obviously I'm okay with the Gay for Evans trade considering I think I was the first to bring it up on this board (sorry if I'm taking somebody else's credit). However, I would be hesitant around any plan that has Evans starting. Let's face it. Evans is injury prone. Having him as a main cog in your starting lineup can be very risky. Constructing a solid starting lineup and having Evans off the bench makes me much more comfortable with it all. That's why I recommended trading the pick to bring in Ariza and using our cap space on one of the many 3 and D SGs in FA.

Having said that, there is some appeal if we can sign Barnes to hold onto our pick if someone like Hield is available. All of a sudden you have a solid young core that can grow with Cousins for years to come.

Collison - 28
Evans - 26
Cousins - 25
Barnes - 23
Cauley-Stein - 22
Hield - 22

EDIT - the cool thing about playing this scenario out is that we would only have Cousins, Cauley-Stein, Barnes, & Hield under contract in the 2017 offseason. With the cap projected to jump to $108 mil, that would leave us with around $56 mil to retool around our young core.

In addition, if Barnes fits nicely in Sac and Hield shows he can play at a high level his rookie year, we're going to look like a very attractive team to a big name PG, and it just so happens that there are a lot of big name PG free agents that year: Curry, Westbrook, Paul, Lowry, Teague, Holiday, Schroder, & Rose. Obviously, Curry will be out of the question but who knows about the others.

With that kind of cap space we could potentially make a play for both Lowry (if Toronto takes a slide) & Ibaka (if the Thunder blow up - Durant &/or Westbrook leaves) in FA.

PG - Lowry
SG - Hield
SF - Barnes
PF - Ibaka/Cauley-Stein
C - Cousins

What a hell of a team that would be. 3pt shooting, defense, & scorers everywhere. One can dream...

 

[mac]

With Evans injury history why would we bring him in? I would rather Lance Stephensen at a discount price who once again has shown on a team where he can somewhat dominate the ball he can be super effective off the bench while he is a idiot he's a idiot who does compete. While Reke is way better he's injured literally every week it seems

Only this season though. Last two seasons on the Pels he's played 72 and 79 games. If we get Reke we need a smart coach though and not an offensively-inept one.

 

[KingMilz]

Only this season though. Last two seasons on the Pels he's played 72 and 79 games. If we get Reke we need a smart coach though and not an offensively-inept one.

Didn't he also miss a decent chunk of games while with us all with leg/ankle type injuries as well?

 

[KingMilz]

I sound like a broken record but....

1. Belinelli for top 55 protected 2nd rounder (I'm sure some contending team will want Belinelli for free especially when they see the types of deals players will be getting in the offseason)
2. Koufos/McLemore for Gibson/Snell (Koufos is younger than Gibson and allow the bulls to move forward with Mirotic & Portis as their PFs of the future. Koufos also compliments both of them well. I would aslo say McLemore has more upside than Snell as well)
3. Gay for T. Evans (Pelicans want to move forward with Davis & Holiday leaving Evans as the odd man out. Gay strengthens their SF spot greatly and can act as that 2nd/3rd scorer behind Davis/Holiday letting him be more effective)
4. 2016 Top 10 Pick for Ariza (Houston regressed this year and will likely look to retool around Harden. Ariza will be 31 next year and might not be in their long term plans. Dangling a top 10 pick in front of them should be enough to pry him away)
5. Sign Kent Bazemore
6. Sign Cole Aldrich to MLE

And voila! You have a beast of a team next year.

PG - Collison (26 min)/Evans (22 min)/Curry
SG - Bazemore (30 min)/Evans (10 min)/Ariza (8 min)/Snell
SF - Ariza (24 min)/Casspi (24 min)/Anderson
PF - Cauley-Stein (18 min)/Gibson (30 min)/Acy
C - Cousins (36 min)/Cauley-Stein (12 min)/Aldrich

Cousins - 36 min
Evans - 32 min
Ariza - 32 min
Bazemore - 30 min
Cauley-Stein - 30 min
Gibson - 30 min
Collison - 26 min
Casspi - 24 min

I love Taj and Ariza but at this point would not give up picks or anything valuable in terms of young assets for either both are in decline, to me we need guys either close to entering or a bout to enter there primes e.g Teague, Bazemore amongst others.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

For Rondo & Courtney Lee. Keep up, S£im...

No thank you; Evans is better than Courtney Lee. Now, it's not necessary for the best player at every position to start, but the best player nearly always finishes; you can't have Evans and Rondo on the court at the same time in crunch time.

 

[twslam07]

I love Taj and Ariza but at this point would not give up picks or anything valuable in terms of young assets for either both are in decline, to me we need guys either close to entering or a bout to enter there primes e.g Teague, Bazemore amongst others.

I see your point of view, but beggars can't be choosers. It's not always about what you specifically want as much as it is about what's available. The only SFs in FA that I would want are Batum & Barnes (Bazemore is a SG being played out of position). I don't see any SFs where we will be drafting that make sense. I don't like Casspi as a starter. As for trades, Ariza would probably be the only reasonably realistic get at SF that I would be okay with (which was why I suggested it). Otherwise, we're sticking with Gay at SF.

I mentioned it already, but if we are able to sign Barnes at SF, I'd be more willing to hang on to our pick and work towards a Cousins/Cauley-Stein/Barnes/Hield core going forward that can grow together (but would also be talented enough to compete today).

I'd still to the Gibson trade as he would fit much better in our big man rotation than Koufos does AND we get out of Koufos' deal since Gibson expires the following season. I don't consider McLemore much of an asset at this point and the fact that we're getting an 'asset' back in Snell makes me okay with the deal.