Renewed Hope

[thesanityannex]

Last night I was thinking of the Kings and the state that they are in, which usually gets depressing, until I started thinking of what they have.(3 all-stars) When they were contending, with Divac, Webber, Christie, Bibby etc. I realized they really didn't have a "superstar" on the team. They were more like a glorified role playing team as a whole. (some will disagree and say webb was a superstar, but this is just my opinion) They got the job done as a team. All this talk of breaking the "core" (miller, bibby, peja) to bring in a superstar may not be necessary. If they can bring in "team players" to compliment the core, this team could be in contention again, only if they have the chemistry though. This core we have now are all-stars (minus bibby, but he should have been and will be). Not many teams have three all-stars on their team. Anyways, I still have hope for next year, even if we don't land a big one in the offseason.

 

[VF21]

Hello? We have two all-stars... coulda/wudda/shudda don't count.

You are entitled to your opinions, of course, but in all honesty we are NOT in any shape to be contenders. Team players to compliment the core? Have you solved the problem of the PF and OG?

Sorry, sanity - but the "core" is sadly lacking in defensive ability, rebounding, shot blocking, post play, etc.

Nothing has changed...yet. The revisions to the CBA might help us some, and we should trust that Petrie has something in mind to make this team better.

 

[C Diddy]

VF21, you can't blame the guy for being optimistic, for once.


With Mike Bibby, Peja Stojakovic, and Brad Miller we are a playoff team. With a little more Geoff Petrie magic like we saw from 1998-2000, we could contend for the championship. A little magic regarding injuries couldn't hurt, either.

 

[VF21]

I revised my comments, C Diddy.

This isn't a new argument. NOTHING has changed yet. If he's going to put the post out here, then he has to expect people to either agree or disagree.

I'm very sorry if I'm not ready to dance around the maypole and sing joyful songs about the state of the Kings at this point in time. I can be as optimistic as the next person, but come on. Can't we also be realistic?

This version of the Kings is NOTHING like the 2002-2003 version. And I am heartily tired of revisionist history that attempts to put Webber into a minor role. He wasn't minor. He was a very big reason for the success we did have.

Have you forgotten how long it took Petrie to build the team? It didn't happen all at once.

I love this team to the core of my being, but it drives me totally nuts for people to put their heads in the sand and try and pretend everything is hunky-dory. It's not hunky-dory. If everything was that great, we wouldn't have been sitting on the sidelines watching since the first round.

 

[BigWaxer]

Going back to 2002-2003 Webb IMO was still no Superstar...I think we have debated this at length this year on what a superstar really is. I love Webb but he was/has never been a superstar when compared to other players that I think are true superstars in this league.

As far as a chance of being a contender as the team stands now... no way in H! I don't see it anytime soon. Well unless Petrie just makes some ungodly moves: IE KG ya right.

I still don't think we will be a contender until Defense is more of a focus and not the standard "our offense is our defense". In important games it's not about who has the best Defensive numbers AKA our 2002 season, It's who can get stops when it counts. With our "GREAT" year at defense we still couldn't stop anyone when it counted.

Its all about stops and being able to stop teams when it counts. Until our team makes that it's main focus we will not win a ring PERIOD.

That is no head in the sand just the truth

 

[VF21]

Never said he was a superstar, although I think that season he was about as close as a Kings player was gonna get if you want to split hairs...
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BTW? It's "head" in the sand.

 

[BigWaxer]

Agree with you VF, ... and I fixed my head and hand LOL... Just a TYPEO and I blame it on The blue/silver can BEVERAGE

 

[SacTownKid]

I for one think the Kings are headed in the right direction. Webber gets traded and everyone thinks the sky is falling. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. I know one thing for sure is that last years team, with Doug and Webb, was going nowhere and going nowhere fast. The Kings became too predictable and stale. At least now we have no choice but to change, with players physically capable of change. Before they were too content to play the same way, due in part b/c with the roster we had there was no choice. I hear encouraging things out of Petries statements that the Kings have to be a new team. They do.

Out of the trades last year I think Doug will be the one the Kings miss the most. He may not have been the defender he had been in the past but he is basically one of the best ball handling/passing SG's to ever play the game. He covered Bibbys rear for a long time. Its a crap shoot but I think Miller, Peja, and Bibby are capable of leading the Sacramento Kings to great things.

Time will tell. How much time? I hope not a lot!

I fully expect the Kings to give it their all out there on the court. I think thats all we as fans can ask.

 

[thesanityannex]

I revised my comments, C Diddy.

This isn't a new argument. NOTHING has changed yet. If he's going to put the post out here, then he has to expect people to either agree or disagree.

I'm very sorry if I'm not ready to dance around the maypole and sing joyful songs about the state of the Kings at this point in time. I can be as optimistic as the next person, but come on. Can't we also be realistic?

This version of the Kings is NOTHING like the 2002-2003 version. And I am heartily tired of revisionist history that attempts to put Webber into a minor role. He wasn't minor. He was a very big reason for the success we did have.

Have you forgotten how long it took Petrie to build the team? It didn't happen all at once.

I love this team to the core of my being, but it drives me totally nuts for people to put their heads in the sand and try and pretend everything is hunky-dory. It's not hunky-dory. If everything was that great, we wouldn't have been sitting on the sidelines watching since the first round.

First, this isn't an argument as you stated, this is a single poster stating that he still has hope. And hope does not mean dancing around the maypole and singing joyful songs as you put it. Second, we all know nothing has changed. I do expect people to agree and disagree. Obviously, you disagree. That is up to you. I think you missed my whole point. HOPE. That's all.

When did I ever say Webber was a minor role. Never. He was the leader of the team and the CLOSEST thing to a superstar we ever had. In no way did I try and down play him. I am not pretending everything is honky dory as you put it. I just realize it could me much worse. We have three players any team would love to have. And if everything was as bad as you make it out to be, we would have been watching ALL ROUNDS OF THE PLAYOFFS.

We have a talented group of players, if you can't see that in Peja, Mike, and Brad, then maybe you should give me your definition of talent. Your pessimistic remarks sound as if we just had a season like the Atlanta Hawks.

 

[thesanityannex]

Agree with you VF, ... and I fixed my head and hand LOL... Just a TYPEO and I blame it on The blue/silver can BEVERAGE

Is that a Keystone Light you are drinking

 

[VF21]

We have a talented group of players, if you can't see that in Peja, Mike, and Brad, then maybe you should give me your definition of talent. Your pessimistic remarks sound as if we just had a season like the Atlanta Hawks.

I didn't say Peja, Mike and Brad aren't talented. What I said was:

but the "core" is sadly lacking in defensive ability, rebounding, shot blocking, post play, etc.

I am NOT being pessimistic. I'm being realistic. The season just passed doesn't mean squat. For one thing, we had Webber for more than half of that season and he was a force at the 4 we have no replacement for. In addition, Evans, Mobley, House and Darius are not presently on the team any longer. Trying to predict what will happen next season based on last season is only even partially applicable if you are going to have the same players returning. We have oozing gaping holes in our roster that Petrie is going to have to address.

When I said "this isn't a new argument," I was referring to the discussion of whether or not this team - as presently structured - is capable of being truly competitive in the upcoming season. I wasn't saying it was an argument with you.

 

[BigWaxer]

Is that a Keystone Light you are drinking

LOL NOOOOO the good Blue and Silver with a BORN on DATE!

 

[thesanityannex]

I didn't say Peja, Mike and Brad aren't talented. What I said was:



I am NOT being pessimistic. I'm being realistic. The season just passed doesn't mean squat. For one thing, we had Webber for more than half of that season and he was a force at the 4 we have no replacement for. In addition, Evans, Mobley, House and Darius are not presently on the team any longer. Trying to predict what will happen next season based on last season is only even partially applicable if you are going to have the same players returning. We have oozing gaping holes in our roster that Petrie is going to have to address.

When I said "this isn't a new argument," I was referring to the discussion of whether or not this team - as presently structured - is capable of being truly competitive in the upcoming season. I wasn't saying it was an argument with you.

I was only thinking of the team with Brad, Mike, and Peja. Just those three. Any capable GM should be able to build a competitive team around them. And these guys have always been "soft" but they still contended in the WCF. Minus Brad. Webber was never "tough", either was Divac. I don't remember the Kings being referred to as anything but soft. This wasn't me predicting anything about next season, just a statement saying that I had hope. Maybe you should read your signature more often.

 

[thesanityannex]

LOL NOOOOO the good Blue and Silver with a BORN on DATE!

A Miller Lite?

 

[Bricklayer]

Not really sure we need yet another thread of this ilk, but anyway, standard response:

We don't have three "All-Stars". People keep on saying that in order to pump our guys up, but its not true. We have one no-time All-Star. One All-Star by complete default because there has been nobody clearly better, and one All-Star who's made it once on merit, and twice simply because we had a good record. NONE of them are perennial All-Stars. None of them make the All-Star team if they play for the Clippers. They are very good players, but half the teams in the league have three players at their level. They may not even be the best trio in Northern California anymore.

Good enough to be in the playoff hunt? Sure. Good enough to be a 50 win team? With a little help. Good enough to be a contender? Not even close. NO title team in my memory has ever had a "core" that looked remotely like ours right now. We aren't even close, and completely fail in every way that matters in the playoffs -- rebounding, defense, toughness, post play, testosterone and desire.

And the real problem? We aren't young. We aren't getting better without moves. There are precious few pieces to watch with hope for the future. So sure, we will be "fine". But meanwhile the fanbase is shaky, the season ticket holders are restless, a new arena, and therefore the team's entire future in Sacto is in trouble. The team can't AFFORD to just be "fine". It either needs to get itself back into contention, or it needs to grow a pair and get some kids in here that give people hope and something to look forward to. Winning 50 and getting knocked out early isn't inspiring stuff when you've been so much more. Getting out "manned" is just embarrassing. That's our future barring significant changes. "Good enough"? Depends on your definition.

 

[Bricklayer]

And these guys have always been "soft" but they still contended in the WCF.

Uh...no. Only one of them contended in that WCF. Brad was not there, and Peja effectively wasn't.

 

[BigWaxer]

Bick said it all... Nice post brick.

 

[thesanityannex]

. Winning 50 and getting knocked out early isn't inspiring stuff when you've been so much more. .

Early or late, they have not won it yet. I see no difference. It's all about a title.

 

[Bricklayer]

Early or late, they have not won it yet. I see no difference. It's all about a title.

If you see no difference between winning 50 and getting dismissed like an errant schoolchild who has wondered into the big kids' yard, and winning 55-60 and battling tooth and nail with the best teams in the league to a series of thrilling and nailbiting Game 7s, I'm sorry, you're missing the point of the whole exercise. Losing hurts, but only one team every year doesn't lose. KNOWING you are going to lose before you even begin? That's boring and demoralizing.

 

[love_them_kings]

I've come back to this thread a couple of times because for some reason it makes me sad. I have hope for the future, but it's not like the hope I had at the end of last season & I still miss what we had. I know Vlade, Christie & Webb aren't getting younger, and some (or maybe all, depending on who you are talking to) of those changes were probably good, but at the end of last season I felt like we had a team that could do it. Get Webb a little healthier and make a run for it....

Well, I have hope now too, but it's a little different. I hope that GP will be able to pull off the kind of moves that makes this team a contender again. I hope this team finds a leader (or leaders) that can make this team into a family again, instead of just a bunch of guys on the same court. And I hope that a master plan is revealed that makes this season's trades look like brilliant moves, instead of just moves.

I love this team, and there are many bright times in the future, but sometimes things have to get worse before they get better. I really hope that's not the case here, but if it is I will still stand by this team.

 

[AriesMar27]

uh... if webber wasnt a superstar than who is? and what are the qualifications?

 

[hoopsfan]

"I'm very sorry if I'm not ready to dance around the maypole..."

I just got a visual of that VF21 and it gave me a chuckle.

 

[thesanityannex]

uh... if webber wasnt a superstar than who is? and what are the qualifications?

Webb was destined to be a superstar, and something happened. oh yeah, his knee.

 

[thesanityannex]

If you see no difference between winning 50 and getting dismissed like an errant schoolchild who has wondered into the big kids' yard, and winning 55-60 and battling tooth and nail with the best teams in the league to a series of thrilling and nailbiting Game 7s, I'm sorry, you're missing the point of the whole exercise. Losing hurts, but only one team every year doesn't lose. KNOWING you are going to lose before you even begin? That's boring and demoralizing.

I see the difference, I just choose to ignore it. 50 or 60 wins, doesn't matter, no title. BOTTOM LINE. We were never good enough and so far we aren't now. Until then.....

 

[AriesMar27]

Webb was destined to be a superstar, and something happened. oh yeah, his knee.

so who is a superstar? is mcgrady a superstar for leading his teams absolutely nowhere? what about kobe? we've all seen what his superstar talent can do without his other superstar..... webber was a superstar, not very durable.... but a superstar nonetheless... if he isnt then neither is kg.... cause what has he done? he won the mvp.... but failed to make the playoffs the next year...

 

[loopymitch]

Can we talk about this after GP works his magic with the trades?

 

[quick dog]

I remember when people around here used to cut the errant Pollyanna some slack now and then. This reads a little like a typical Lakers-board thread.

 

[chelle]

The reality is Petrie, the coaching staff, the Maloofs, and THE PLAYERS have A LOT of work to do before we are true contenders again. There is a not a person with any basketball knowledge that can deny that. PERIOD

Hope comes in when we decide to trust in something when we have no real proof or evidence on which to base that trust.

Is it realistic to think that we can really win it all next year? NO, but why watch if you can't hope?

Many of us have been fans for a long time. Most of will continue to be fans for even longer. No matter how realistic I am in my view of this team and our chances, I always try to have hope, if only a little. To those of you who seem to have more hope that the rest of us, hold on to it. Just try not to be too disappointed if the season does not unfold as you dream! To those of us that are a bit more jaded, I'm going to try to grab on to some of their hope! Who knows . . . miracles can happen and anything is possible.

 

[thesanityannex]

. To those of you who seem to have more hope that the rest of us, hold on to it. Just try not to be too disappointed if the season does not unfold as you dream!

I still have hope and every season has ended the wrong way. Like you said, why watch if you don't have hope.

 

[thesanityannex]

so who is a superstar? is mcgrady a superstar for leading his teams absolutely nowhere? what about kobe? we've all seen what his superstar talent can do without his other superstar..... webber was a superstar, not very durable.... but a superstar nonetheless... if he isnt then neither is kg.... cause what has he done? he won the mvp.... but failed to make the playoffs the next year...

a superstar can single handedly change a game, every game. webber could not, he was only a star. and you can't compare webber to kg, thats just laughable. not every superstar wins a title.