Reke traded what if...

[BMiller52]

Yes, all three are now declining future HOFers. But they are still versatile offensive players who can shoot and pass really well to provide excellent spacing for penetrating guard. Tyreke would really like playing for Boston.

So you don't think Thornton would benefit from playing with Rondo the way Ray Allen does? He's more athletic and basically with the injuries Allen is dealing with, a better shooter now. Cousins wouldn't benefit from a PG that will throw perfect lobs to him in the post? Same with whoever we pick, whether it's a big man like Robinson or Drummond(would be good pick and roll players), or a wing like Barnes, Jones, or if we were to trade back, someone like Jeff Taylor. Tyreke plays with other good scorers he's just a more talented scorer off the drive than passer and he doesn't understand how to set up his teammates like Rondo does. In addition, Rondo is one of, if not the best defender at the PG position in the NBA. Tyreke's defense ranges from good to terrible based on who he's guarding and how interested he is in the game. Rondo is unquestionably better than Tyreke at this point. If they were willing to do a Reke+IT package I'd have to do it and if it was a Rondo+21+22 for Reke+5th pick I'd probably do it too.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

So you don't think Thornton would benefit from playing with Rondo the way Ray Allen does? He's more athletic and basically with the injuries Allen is dealing with, a better shooter now. Cousins wouldn't benefit from a PG that will throw perfect lobs to him in the post? Same with whoever we pick, whether it's a big man like Robinson or Drummond(would be good pick and roll players), or a wing like Barnes, Jones, or if we were to trade back, someone like Jeff Taylor. Tyreke plays with other good scorers he's just a more talented scorer off the drive than passer and he doesn't understand how to set up his teammates like Rondo does. In addition, Rondo is one of, if not the best defender at the PG position in the NBA. Tyreke's defense ranges from good to terrible based on who he's guarding and how interested he is in the game. Rondo is unquestionably better than Tyreke at this point. If they were willing to do a Reke+IT package I'd have to do it and if it was a Rondo+21+22 for Reke+5th pick I'd probably do it too.

u sir wil get your wish soon. Rondo will not have Garnett, Allen and possibly pierce soon. I'll be watching for those continued 20/20/20 games from him.

 

[rainmaker]

Sure, but they aren't as athletic, versatile, or providing as much spacing as they were 4 years ago, yet Rondo is still improved to the point that he's their best player.

You're looking at the wrong reasons as to why the floor is spread for Rondo. Allen, Pierce, KG and Pietrus are all very good, if not great spot up, catch and shoot players. Doesn't matter if they're not as versatile or athletic as they used to be. Playing off Allen or Pierce and allowing them to catch and shoot at the 3pt line would be about as stupid a move a defense can make.

You say in a follow up post why doesn't Chalmers also get as many assists playing with Lebron and Wade. Do you not know the difference between Lebron and Wade, and the Boston 3? Lebron and Wade are not good catch and shoot players, are better attacking with the ball, so it would make sense when guarding Mia to play off them and clog the lanes to prevent them from attacking.

I'm sure he would. But would he average nearly 12 assists per game as Rondo does? Would he be the disruptive defensive pest that Rondo is? While Reke has shown to be a good drive and kick guy, he hasn't shown the same playmaking creativity as Rondo nor has he shown consistency on defense

Rondo looks to pass first. Reke looks to score first, despite being just as bad a shooter as Rondo. I'm just skeptical that he's ever going to change his mindset. Even if he does, will he ever stop leaning back on his jumpshots? I know Rondo can do everything well but shoot, and that doesn't seem to be hindering the Celts from being a perennial contender.

Reke actually looked to pass first, and second, sometimes third, after Smart moved him to the corner and took the ball out of his hands. He should look to attack more than he did under Smart, as he's our only guy who can penetrate through defenses on a regular basis. It's not so much his mindset has to change as his decision making, and added shooters around him. The Rose/Westbrook/Parker mindset has been pretty successful, and if Reke gets a midrange jumper and is surrounded by shooters, and is allowed to learn the role is a set offense and actually given time to learn it, we might see a player step up to a similar level as those guys. It's also tough to consistently get high assists when surrounded by the worst shooters in the league. We were the worst shooting team in the league for a reason. Our shooters are inconsistent, and generally just flat out not good shooters. How many times did Reke kcik to a wide open Salmons the first 30+ games, only to see him brick. He missed over 25 straight 3's at one point. if that were Pierce...

Of course Rondo's shooting doesn't stop Bos from being contenders. Was that a serious comment? Look at who he's surrounded by.

Rondo is a damn good player. I like him a lot. But please show more understanding of the situations all the other guys you compare him to are in. The Spurs run a motion offense, used to run it mainly though Duncan, and even now when Parker in involved in more pick & rolls, Ginobili also handles the ball a lot.Parker also regularly makes the pass which leads to the assist, the so called hockey assist. SA moreso than any other team makes the extra pass(es) to the open shooter, as damn near all their wings are very good spot up shooters. And again, with Chalmers, Wade and Lebron, as great as they are, are not spot up shooters. They need the ball to succeed, not play off the ball and wait for Chalmers to create for them. They create for themselves.

 

[JMelho]

Those trades make no sense. The Rondo trade will never happen. He is now their cornerstone franchise player. The Celtics are rebuilding after this year. Even if they resign Allen and Garnett, they need to add young talent. Rondo runs that team now. You need to give up a big time player for Rondo at this point.

Bargnani? He would mesh well with Cousins because he takes the 3. But again, the Raptors would not do that. He is their franchise player and they play much harder with him on the court. They also play Euroball so Evans would not help if they have no big man who can shoot. They are pretty decent at guard and guys who can hit the 3.

The Gallinari trade makes sense since the Nuggets need a true star player. But for the Kings? I don't think so. Gallinari provides a 3 point threat but no defense. That would not help this team at all. I'd also assume the Nuggets would rather pursue Cousins over Evans since they badly need size inside and scoring.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

You say in a follow up post why doesn't Chalmers also get as many assists playing with Lebron and Wade. Do you not know the difference between Lebron and Wade, and the Boston 3? Lebron and Wade are not good catch and shoot players, are better attacking with the ball, so it would make sense when guarding Mia to play off them and clog the lanes to prevent them from

Rondo is a damn good player. I like him a lot. But please show more understanding of the situations all the other guys you compare him to are in. The Spurs run a motion offense, used to run it mainly though Duncan, and even now when Parker in involved in more pick & rolls, Ginobili also handles the ball a lot.Parker also regularly makes the pass which leads to the assist, the so called hockey assist. SA moreso than any other team makes the extra pass(es) to the open shooter, as damn near all their wings are very good spot up shooters. And again, with Chalmers, Wade and Lebron, as great as they are, are not spot up shooters. They need the ball to succeed, not play off the ball and wait for Chalmers to create for them. They create for themselves.

I fully understand the differences. I was simply providing a couple examples to the person that made the blanket statement regarding Rondo playing with 3 future HOF's, as if that undoubtedly proves that his success is solely about the talent he plays with rather than his own talents. While you're 100% correct in your breakdown of the differences, the point I was attempting to make is that it isn't as simple as he tried to make it seem.

Of course Rondo's shooting doesn't stop Bos from being contenders. Was that a serious comment? Look at who he's surrounded by.

Yes it was serious. I don't care who he is surrounded by. That's wasn't at all the point. My point is, Rondo does so many things well that his inability to shoot doesn't really matter. He's like Jason Kidd in that regard. During the prime of his career, Kidd was a poor perimeter shooter as well yet his teams were usually in contention, largely because of him and the other skills he brought to the table. Rondo's game is quite similar. It's my contention that Rondo would perform similarly on a team with less talent than Boston, just like Kidd proved he could do.

Reke actually looked to pass first, and second, sometimes third, after Smart moved him to the corner and took the ball out of his hands. He should look to attack more than he did under Smart, as he's our only guy who can penetrate through defenses on a regular basis. It's not so much his mindset has to change as his decision making, and added shooters around him. The Rose/Westbrook/Parker mindset has been pretty successful, and if Reke gets a midrange jumper and is surrounded by shooters, and is allowed to learn the role is a set offense and actually given time to learn it, we might see a player step up to a similar level as those guys. It's also tough to consistently get high assists when surrounded by the worst shooters in the league. We were the worst shooting team in the league for a reason. Our shooters are inconsistent, and generally just flat out not good shooters. How many times did Reke kcik to a wide open Salmons the first 30+ games, only to see him brick. He missed over 25 straight 3's at one point. if that were Pierce...

I agree with most of what you say, especially the point about being surrounded with guys that can't put the ball in the basket. As much as I love DeMarcus, he's contributed heavily by consistently missing what should be easy setups from Reke and converting only after collecting his own miss.

My goal isn't to trash Reke, whom I still like and have high hopes for, but rather be honest and objective. Regardless of the differences of talent around them, Rondo has consistently shown things that we all hope Tyreke will eventually be able to show consistently someday too. If I'm given the choice between a player that's proven it versus one that hasn't, I choose the known quantity. That's all I'm saying. However, if Tyreke has a breakout season anywhere similar to what Derrick Rose displayed a couple seasons ago, of course I'd change my tune really fast. But again, he would have then PROVED it

 

[Bricklayer]

So you don't think Thornton would benefit from playing with Rondo the way Ray Allen does? He's more athletic and basically with the injuries Allen is dealing with, a better shooter now. Cousins wouldn't benefit from a PG that will throw perfect lobs to him in the post? Same with whoever we pick, whether it's a big man like Robinson or Drummond(would be good pick and roll players), or a wing like Barnes, Jones, or if we were to trade back, someone like Jeff Taylor. Tyreke plays with other good scorers he's just a more talented scorer off the drive than passer and he doesn't understand how to set up his teammates like Rondo does. In addition, Rondo is one of, if not the best defender at the PG position in the NBA. Tyreke's defense ranges from good to terrible based on who he's guarding and how interested he is in the game. Rondo is unquestionably better than Tyreke at this point. If they were willing to do a Reke+IT package I'd have to do it and if it was a Rondo+21+22 for Reke+5th pick I'd probably do it too.

Reke and the 5th pick?? For Rondo????

That would be one of the highest value packages I have seen traded in the NBA in years. That could go down like the old Celtic steals they used to make in the 60s through 80s, like the one where they got McHale and Parish for Joe Barry Carrol. Always on the lookout to fool the poor dumb small market team with no brains into trading them the farm. Just nutty. Rondo is a dman fine player. He's no superstar, and that's a superstar package.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Rondo is a dman fine player. He's no superstar, .

Magic Johnson seems to think so and he's in a better position to know than any of us. Magic was also asked tonight who Rondo reminds him of and he said a mix of himself, Stockton, and Kidd. Pretty high praise.

That said, I agree that a package of Tyreke AND the #5 is a ridiculous amount to give up. I'd do an even swap, but wouldn't give a penny more.

 

[Anthony1]

I'd actually be cool with Scenario 1, but not sure that I want to pay JT too much money, and I'm not sure that I would want Barnes, especially at #5 overall.

 

[KingsCitizen]

The only package worth Tyreke and #5 pick is Dwight Howard (with D12 committed to sign for another max contract with the Kings), and especially if the #5 pick is Drummond.

First off, Orlando easily gets a 1-2 punch with Reke and Drummond and they already have plenty of shooters to support Reke's limitations.

For the Kings, with Dwight and DMC down low his slashing won't be much of a need. All you need around DMC and Howard are shooters. Even Fredette's value will sky rocket if we'll get Howard next to DMC. To balance contracts, we might also be able to clean the roster of sevel K-9 type contracts.

Now will this happen? IMO, while the Maloofs are still owning this team all financially demanding proposals will just die in this forum.

 

[Bricklayer]

Magic Johnson seems to think so and he's in a better position to know than any of us. Magic was also asked tonight who Rondo reminds him of and he said a mix of himself, Stockton, and Kidd. Pretty high praise.

Magic was a great player.

He is an idiot as an ananalyst/talent scout.

Ditto for Shaq.

By all evidence ditto for Michael Jordan.

etc.

Great players are not consistent sources of analysis of current players. Some are good, or pretty good. More are not.

 

[bajaden]

Anyone who wouldn't trade Tyreke for Rondo is a complete homer, bottom line.

Well sorry, I wouldn't trade Tyreke for Rondo, and I'm not a homer. I just don't like Rondo's game as much as you do. I don't like him as a person either, but thats a different issue. And, I don't like general statements where one size fits all. Thats the same thing as saying that if I don't agree with president Obama, I'm a racist. Thats nonsense. I just happen to like Tyreke better than Rondo, and I'm not going to argue it, because I don't care enough to do so. Its all subjective anyway.

 

[bajaden]

Magic Johnson seems to think so and he's in a better position to know than any of us. Magic was also asked tonight who Rondo reminds him of and he said a mix of himself, Stockton, and Kidd. Pretty high praise.

That said, I agree that a package of Tyreke AND the #5 is a ridiculous amount to give up. I'd do an even swap, but wouldn't give a penny more.

With all due respect to Magic, who I like as a person and as a player, I think he's just a wee bit over the top with his analysis. I'm surprised he didn't throw in Oscar Robertson while he was at it. He did confirm once again, that star players usually don't make good GM's or coaches. Yes yes, I know there are exceptions.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Magic was a great player.

He is an idiot as an ananalyst/talent scout.

Ditto for Shaq.

By all evidence ditto for Michael Jordan.

etc.

Great players are not consistent sources of analysis of current players. Some are good, or pretty good. More are not.

With all due respect to Magic, who I like as a person and as a player, I think he's just a wee bit over the top with his analysis. I'm surprised he didn't throw in Oscar Robertson while he was at it. He did confirm once again, that star players usually don't make good GM's or coaches. Yes yes, I know there are exceptions.

C'mon guys. Your twisting things a bit now. Magic doesn't have to be a good coach or GM to be able to recognize greatness in another player, specifically one that plays the same position he once did. I fully understand and agree that being a former player doesn't necessarily equate to being a good GM or coach. Not everyone can evaluate whether a college player will translate to the next level or fit in with a particular style of play nor can everyone figure out how to mesh personalities and motivate others. I get that. But that's not at all what's going on here.

Magic is evaluating an already established player currently playing in the league. Furthermore, that player plays the same position he did. Considering that, along with the fact that he was one of the very best to ever play said position, he most certainly is qualified to know whether another player is elite or not. At worst, he is without question more qualified than we are and his opinion has a lot more credibility. If this was Shaq or Barkley saying the same thing, I'd understand the skepticism. While they are also former players, both have little idea and nowhere near the perspective of what it takes to play the PG position in the NBA. Magic most certainly does.

To use a player from another sport as an example, Joe Montana may not be head coach or GM material or even a good QB's coach (wherein he has to teach). However, he is more than qualified to know whether an existing NFL QB is good or not, even if that QB doesn't play in the same offensive system as he did. He knows what it's like to face a rush, think quickly, throw under pressure, make accurate throws, etc, etc. Same logic applies to Magic. He knows what it's like to facilitate an offense, play under pressure, make timely passes from all sorts of different angles, etc, etc.

Both of your comments indicate that you aren't considering this and are instead twisting his evaluation as if he's talking about a college player coming out in the draft or evaluating a position he knows a lot less about such as PF. In this particular case, he has a better understanding of what he's talking about than most. Now I'm not saying his opinions are always 100% correct simply because of his background, but he certainly has more perspective and insight than we do and his opinion on something like this is much more likely to be accurate. I really don't understand how someone can try to argue against that.

 

[BMiller52]

Well sorry, I wouldn't trade Tyreke for Rondo, and I'm not a homer. I just don't like Rondo's game as much as you do. I don't like him as a person either, but thats a different issue. And, I don't like general statements where one size fits all. Thats the same thing as saying that if I don't agree with president Obama, I'm a racist. Thats nonsense. I just happen to like Tyreke better than Rondo, and I'm not going to argue it, because I don't care enough to do so. Its all subjective anyway.

My friend actually met Rondo when he came into my friend's store(he works at a Vans in the bay area) and Rondo was actually really nice, took a picture, and talked with him for 15 minutes. I think that's pretty ignorant of you to say you don't like him as a person when you don't know him and you don't follow their team closely. It's not like he's ever been accused of a crime. Rondo is a true PG and a great defender, who can do virtually anything on the court. He's even improved his jump shot, which Tyreke has been unable to do. I'm sorry but because of your opinion I DO think you're a homer. No offense but of course you don't think you're a homer. You only see things through your point of view. If you go on RealGM or InsideHoops and ask a bunch of fans of other teams who is the better player now and for the future, 95-99% of them will say Rondo.

 

[hrdboild]

Midway through the season when Boston was scuffling and there was talking of Ainge possibly shopping Rondo rather than trying to rebuild around him, I thought we might have a chance. And I would give up a lot to get Rondo. He's been one of my favorite players since I saw him play with Josh Smith in high school. But with each passing playoff game, the asking price is going up and at this point I think the Boston fans would run Ainge out of town with pitchforks if he traded Rondo for anything less than Anthony Davis or Dwight Howard. Maybe even then.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Well sorry, I wouldn't trade Tyreke for Rondo, and I'm not a homer. I just don't like Rondo's game as much as you do. I don't like him as a person either, but thats a different issue. And, I don't like general statements where one size fits all. Thats the same thing as saying that if I don't agree with president Obama, I'm a racist. Thats nonsense. I just happen to like Tyreke better than Rondo, and I'm not going to argue it, because I don't care enough to do so. Its all subjective anyway.

While I realize this whole scenario is unrealistic and it's just an interesting thing to discuss, if it were actually on the table ... I wouldn't do it. The more I've thought about it, the point you've just made regarding Rondo as a person would keep me from making the trade. While I do not know him, as most here don't, we do know there's some truth to his reported conflicts with other players and management. What the degree of the truth is, I don't know. However, my perception is he has a little DeMarcus in him whereas his personality has some volatility to it. That said, I don't think he'd transition from a championship contending team like Boston to a team like ours very well. He's been on a contending team ever since entering the league. If he was traded to a 20 something win team and that team didn't become a 50 win squad overnight, how would he deal with it? I'm thinking not too well. A lot of players that have faced that exact same situation have't adjusted too well. Now add the volatility to it.

Anyway, while this trade discussion between Rondo and Tyreke isn't realisitc, this was something that just hit me and I thought I'd mention it.