Reke traded what if...

[K F Jay]

What if...
　
Scenario 1: Kings select Barnes, resign JT then trade Reke for Rondo.

Rondo
Thornton
(r)Barnes
Thompson
Cousins
　
Scenario 2: Kings select Barnes then trade Reke + one of our bad contracts? for Bargnani.

IT
Thornton
(r)Barnes
Bargnani
Cousins
　
Scenario 3: Kings select Robinson then trade Reke for Gallinari + one of our bad contracts? their 20th pick?

IT
Thornton
Gallinari
(r)Robinson
Cousins

 

[Rookie]

Scenario 1: not gonna happen.
Scenario 2/3: IT/Thornton/ still too weak in defense. Need to have atleast 1 playing good defense for the combo to work.

 

[rainmaker]

I'll say something which Baja brought up before. There is an unwritten rule here, actually I think it might actually be a rule, to explain why both teams would do a trade.

Where's the analysis? Three separate proposals and not a single word describing why any of the teams would do this, or why we'd do it.

Used to be higher standards in Personnel Moves...

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Rain, dont be harsh... its saturday night.. ppl are allowed to get high then post trade scenarios with no explanation why

 

[KingsFanSince85]

I could be wrong, though I highly doubt it, but the window to acquire Rondo for anything less than a perennial all-star or an above average big man has long since passed. I doubt they even consider trading him for another guard unless his name is Derrick Rose and he's healthy. Would you?

At this point in time, I'm not even certain DeMarcus Cousins gets their full attention (though I personally wouldn't do that if I were GP).

As for the other proposals, I'm not a big fan of either player, especially if it means sending out Tyreke, so count me as a 'no'.

 

[gunks]

Reke for Bargs? WTF?!?!

Big Cuz 15 is right... You gotta be high

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Seriously.... reke is a one man fast break. There is a reason why opposing teams put their best defender on him. Hes that freaking good. Do they put em on our pg of the future it? How about thornton?

 

[K F Jay]

I don't like any of these scenario's but we can't put it past our FO to make such moves. Replace Bargnani with D. Lee or (r)Robinson I don't care. You know how much our FO loves guys who can shoot. With everything that happened to Tyreke last season are you guys confident he'll be here next season. I hope he is.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

I don't like any of these scenario's but we can't put it past our FO to make such moves. Replace Bargnani with D. Lee or (r)Robinson I don't care. You know how much our FO loves guys who can shoot. With everything that happened to Tyreke last season are you guys confident he'll be here next season. I hope he is.

Hope he is...cant tell with this great ownership we have...

 

[ParniValjak]

At this point in their career, I would be deadset against trading Tyreke unless we are talking for a young superstar and as good as Rondo is, he is not a superstar.

I would like to see us build a team around Cousins and Tyreke as I think that with the right coach that is able to build a system around those two, they would be one of the most formidable duos in the league for years to come.

Play off basketball is built around power game and the game style of those two are pure power. Jump shooting, other types of scorers, that's all nice to have but when the chips are down, players that can break the defence with the dribble drive or with pure power post game are worth their weight in gold.

I honestly believe that the biggest **** up this franchise can make is to trade Tyreke at this point in his career. With even half respectable jumpshot, the guy is un-guardable and the jumpshot WILL come.

Guys like Thorton are luxury to have but you will never build a contender with these guys being your main guys. Just does not work out well very often. Play off basketball demands 2 way players or on a one way player that is so far superior than anyone else at their position. Thornton is neither. Cousins is superior at the offensive end that any other C in the league and will only get better with more seasoning.

 

[mac]

At this point in their career, I would be deadset against trading Tyreke unless we are talking for a young superstar and as good as Rondo is, he is not a superstar.

I would like to see us build a team around Cousins and Tyreke as I think that with the right coach that is able to build a system around those two, they would be one of the most formidable duos in the league for years to come.

Play off basketball is built around power game and the game style of those two are pure power. Jump shooting, other types of scorers, that's all nice to have but when the chips are down, players that can break the defence with the dribble drive or with pure power post game are worth their weight in gold.

I honestly believe that the biggest **** up this franchise can make is to trade Tyreke at this point in his career. With even half respectable jumpshot, the guy is un-guardable and the jumpshot WILL come.

Guys like Thorton are luxury to have but you will never build a contender with these guys being your main guys. Just does not work out well very often. Play off basketball demands 2 way players or on a one way player that is so far superior than anyone else at their position. Thornton is neither. Cousins is superior at the offensive end that any other C in the league and will only get better with more seasoning.

I think Rondo is a pretty damn good player (look at his game 2 performance!). Being a more pure PG however, he needs to have physical scorers or good catch and shoot players around him, together with a good system putting it all together in order to turn a good team into an elite one.
We are especially lacking in that last pre-requisite

 

[KingsFanSince85]

At this point in their career, I would be deadset against trading Tyreke unless we are talking for a young superstar and as good as Rondo is, he is not a superstar.

While agree with much of what you say, I gotta disagree with you regarding Rondo. Have you not watched the playoffs? Outside of a healthy Derrick Rose, who is clearly better or a more impactful guard? Kobe, Wade, Deron Williams, and Chris Paul? A couple of those are even debatable. I surely wouldn't take Westbrook or Parker over him. Nor would I hesitate to trade Tyreke for him, if possible.

What is Rondo's weakness? Perimeter shooting, just like Tyreke. However, it looks like Rondo has erased that weakness, if the postseason is any indication. Rondo is clearly the better playmaker and likely the better defender despite being smaller. I love Reke, but is he capable of a 20/20/20 game as Rondo has flirted with on several occassions? Is Reke ever gonna prove to be capable of a 44/8/10 game in the postseason as Rondo just turned in on Wednesday against the Miami Heat no less?

I surely hope so. But if your asking me today, after watching Reke play the past 3 seasons, I'd say it's getting less and less likely. Rondo has proven himself under the toughest conditions. Tyreke has not.

 

[Bricklayer]

While agree with much of what you say, I gotta disagree with you regarding Rondo. Have you not watched the playoffs? Outside of a healthy Derrick Rose, who is clearly better or a more impactful guard? Kobe, Wade, Deron Williams, and Chris Paul? A couple of those are even debatable. I surely wouldn't take Westbrook or Parker over him. Nor would I hesitate to trade Tyreke for him, if possible.

What is Rondo's weakness? Perimeter shooting, just like Tyreke. However, it looks like Rondo has erased that weakness, if the postseason is any indication. Rondo is clearly the better playmaker and likely the better defender despite being smaller. I love Reke, but is he capable of a 20/20/20 game as Rondo has flirted with on several occassions? Is Reke ever gonna prove to be capable of a 44/8/10 game in the postseason as Rondo just turned in on Wednesday against the Miami Heat no less?

I surely hope so. But if your asking me today, after watching Reke play the past 3 seasons, I'd say it's getting less and less likely. Rondo has proven himself under the toughest conditions. Tyreke has not.

Rondo has not only not cured the shooting problme, it extends to his FTs too. And at his age, this is it. He never will be able to shoot. Maybe he'll eventually be able to learn a late career 3pt spot shot like Kidd or something, but otherwise it is what it is with him.

 

[VF21]

I don't like any of these scenario's but we can't put it past our FO to make such moves. Replace Bargnani with D. Lee or (r)Robinson I don't care. You know how much our FO loves guys who can shoot. With everything that happened to Tyreke last season are you guys confident he'll be here next season. I hope he is.

Dude, you don't get it. If you're going to make trade proposals, PLEASE respect the intelligence of the other members of this forum enough to follow the guidelines as shown in the stickied thread above. http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?21353-Tips-for-posting-trade-ideas

Anybody, including Bozo the One-Legged Monkey, can toss names out there at random. Unless you can show some analysis about why EACH TEAM would, in fact, do the trade you've proposed it's a waste of time for people to even comment.

Just for starters - Under what conditions would Boston trade Rondo for Tyreke Evans or almost any other player in the NBA? Seriously. You shouldn't smoke and post.

 

[Glenn]

Dude, you don't get it. If you're going to make trade proposals, PLEASE respect the intelligence of the other members of this forum enough to follow the guidelines as shown in the stickied thread above. http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?21353-Tips-for-posting-trade-ideas

Anybody, including Bozo the One-Legged Monkey, can toss names out there at random. Unless you can show some analysis about why EACH TEAM would, in fact, do the trade you've proposed it's a waste of time for people to even comment.

Just for starters - Under what conditions would Boston trade Rondo for Tyreke Evans or almost any other player in the NBA? Seriously. You shouldn't smoke and post.

This is EXACTLY why I stay away from these discussions. Without picking on anyone in particular, it often sems like people post these proposals because they are bored and have nothing better to do. I personally like to think/analyze and as I know little of many of the non-Kings players in the league, the proposals make no sense unless they are more detailed. The poster may know exactly why the trade proposal is made but that doesn't help me.

 

[Hoovtrain]

I'll say something which Baja brought up before. There is an unwritten rule here, actually I think it might actually be a rule, to explain why both teams would do a trade.

Where's the analysis? Three separate proposals and not a single word describing why any of the teams would do this, or why we'd do it.

Used to be higher standards in Personnel Moves...

Relax. Its certainly not a reason to get all bent out if shape over.

 

[Glenn]

Relax. Its certainly not a reason to get all bent out if shape over.

It's just a wate of time, that's all.

 

[Hoovtrain]

At this point in their career, I would be deadset against trading Tyreke unless we are talking for a young superstar and as good as Rondo is, he is not a superstar.

I would like to see us build a team around Cousins and Tyreke as I think that with the right coach that is able to build a system around those two, they would be one of the most formidable duos in the league for years to come.

Play off basketball is built around power game and the game style of those two are pure power. Jump shooting, other types of scorers, that's all nice to have but when the chips are down, players that can break the defence with the dribble drive or with pure power post game are worth their weight in gold.

I honestly believe that the biggest **** up this franchise can make is to trade Tyreke at this point in his career. With even half respectable jumpshot, the guy is un-guardable and the jumpshot WILL come.

Guys like Thorton are luxury to have but you will never build a contender with these guys being your main guys. Just does not work out well very often. Play off basketball demands 2 way players or on a one way player that is so far superior than anyone else at their position. Thornton is neither. Cousins is superior at the offensive end that any other C in the league and will only get better with more seasoning.

I dont know. I used to not think he was a superstar and was overrated, but after watching him this year and in particular these playoffs, the guy might have graduated to the superstar level.

 

[bajaden]

Rondo has not only not cured the shooting problme, it extends to his FTs too. And at his age, this is it. He never will be able to shoot. Maybe he'll eventually be able to learn a late career 3pt spot shot like Kidd or something, but otherwise it is what it is with him.

I'm amazed how people watch one game and think thats the norm. Rondo shot 28.3% from the 3 pt line this past season. His lifetime average is around 29%. I don't see anything that leads me to believe he's cured his shooting ill's. He only shot 59% from the freethrow line. The freethrow line is always a good indicator of whether a player can be a good overall shooter. If you have good touch from there, it usually translates to your jumpshot. By the way, I just thought I'd throw in that Drummond shot a remarkable 29.5% from the freethrow line.

 

[Section 101]

I'm amazed how people watch one game and think thats the norm. Rondo shot 28.3% from the 3 pt line this past season. His lifetime average is around 29%. I don't see anything that leads me to believe he's cured his shooting ill's. He only shot 59% from the freethrow line. The freethrow line is always a good indicator of whether a player can be a good overall shooter. If you have good touch from there, it usually translates to your jumpshot. By the way, I just thought I'd throw in that Drummond shot a remarkable 29.5% from the freethrow line.

What gets me is he was dynamite in the all-star horse competition a few years ago when he lost to Durant. Seems more mental than any flaw in his form.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

I'm amazed how people watch one game and think thats the norm. Rondo shot 28.3% from the 3 pt line this past season. His lifetime average is around 29%. I don't see anything that leads me to believe he's cured his shooting ill's.

First off, my comment regarding Rondo's shooting woes was tongue in cheek, hence why I said "if the postseason is any indication". I fully realize a few games in the postseason, where he has been hitting long perimeter shots is a small sample size in comparison to the regular season. I'm under no illusion that Rondo is suddenly Steve Nash shooting the ball from distance.

However, Rondo has a career shooting percentage of 48.1%, which is damn good considering his pathetic 3-pt% (about the same as Tyreke's). He's got a far better overall % than Kyle Lowry, who many are lobbying for the Kings to acquire. Lowry is a better deep shooter, but overall % is far more important. It means Rondo makes a much better percentage of whatever shots he does take. It means he's able to get to the basket and take easier shots to make up for the fact that he's not a good deep shooter.

If you took Steve Nash and traded his deep perimeter skils and FT shooting for defense, you get Rajon Rondo. You still get the assists, transition game, and solid overall shooting % from the floor.

While Tyreke has a lot of similarities to Rondo, though a larger version, he hasn't found his game as Rajon has. Hopefully we'll start seeing him do so this upcoming season. However, if Rondo was offered for Tyreke at the end of the postseason (hypothetically) I really think it's a no brainer to take the deal. Despite sharing the same perimeter shooting affliction, Rondo has proven to be elite in several other aspects of the game where as Reke has not done the same to this point in time.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Rondo is playing with 3 future hof'rs. He should be getting easy looks. I doubt he will be as effective if he is the main or secondary focus of the defense.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

It doesn't matter what or who we bring in, if we don't have a decent coach or owners who will spend anything, you still suck...bottom line.

 

[BMiller52]

Anyone who wouldn't trade Tyreke for Rondo is a complete homer, bottom line.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Rondo is playing with 3 future hof'rs. He should be getting easy looks. I doubt he will be as effective if he is the main or secondary focus of the defense.

They may be future HOF's but they aren't those same players right now .. today. While still quite good, Allen and Garnett are 36 while Pierce is 34. They are not in their prime nor playing at the same level they built their careers on. As of today, Rondo is, at worst, the 2nd best player on that team. I'd argue that he's their best all-around player and that Pierce is simply their go to player in big shot situations. Rondo's absence hurts the Celtics more than any other player though, therefore it's become his team.

When the Celts won the title during Rondo's 2nd season, what you're saying was on point. However, Rondo's much, much better now and Garnett, Allen and Pierce have been declining. His production is less about them making him look good, as it once was. Nowadays it's become Rondo making the game easier for them as their skills decline. All players need good players around them and PG's need teammates who are adept at putting the ball in the basket in order to rack up assists. However, Rondo makes that easier for them now than ever before. He'd be able to do the same elsewhere.

 

[Gilles]

Yes, all three are now declining future HOFers. But they are still versatile offensive players who can shoot and pass really well to provide excellent spacing for penetrating guard. Tyreke would really like playing for Boston.

 

[Telemachus]

Yes, all three are now declining future HOFers. But they are still versatile offensive players who can shoot and pass really well to provide excellent spacing for penetrating guard. Tyreke would really like playing for Boston.

I think fans often what to see the greener grass on the other side and are more than willing to overlook flaws in players on other teams as a result. I wonder what Tyreke would shoot if he wasn't facing double & triple teams most of the time. Rondo is routinely given the outside shot (much like Tyreke), but you don't see defenses collapse on him the same way when he drives to the basket. That may be due to Rondo having better passing ability, but I also think it has a lot to due with WHO he has to pass the ball to as well. I think it would be interesting to see how Rondo's career would have gone if he had ended up on another team.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Yes, all three are now declining future HOFers. But they are still versatile offensive players who can shoot and pass really well to provide excellent spacing for penetrating guard.

Sure, but they aren't as athletic, versatile, or providing as much spacing as they were 4 years ago, yet Rondo is still improved to the point that he's their best player.

Tyreke would really like playing for Boston.

I'm sure he would. But would he average nearly 12 assists per game as Rondo does? Would he be the disruptive defensive pest that Rondo is? While Reke has shown to be a good drive and kick guy, he hasn't shown the same playmaking creativity as Rondo nor has he shown consistency on defense

Rondo looks to pass first. Reke looks to score first, despite being just as bad a shooter as Rondo. I'm just skeptical that he's ever going to change his mindset. Even if he does, will he ever stop leaning back on his jumpshots? I know Rondo can do everything well but shoot, and that doesn't seem to be hindering the Celts from being a perennial contender.

I like Reke and certainly hope he develops into the player we think he can be. However, at some point, potential becomes meaningless. While there isn't a long list of players I'd give up Reke for, Rondo just happens to be one of them.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

I think fans often what to see the greener grass on the other side and are more than willing to overlook flaws in players on other teams as a result. I think it would be interesting to see how Rondo's career would have gone if he had ended up on another team.

It's not like Rondo is the ONLY player in the league with talent around him. How come he's of the few players that averages double-figure assists? How come these other players fortunate to play with a plethora of talent around them aren't flirting with 20/20/20 games too?

The kid is averaging nearly 12 ppg, 5 rpg, and 12 apg, all while shooting a respectable percentage except for 3pt and FT's. That's not all due to his teammates. If it were, his numbers would be far more common throughout the league.

For example, why doesn't Mario Chalmers put up similar numbers? He plays with 3 allstars, 2 of which are sure fire HOF's that are still in the prime of their careers. What about Tony Parker? He's played with Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili and a host of other talented players yet has never averaged more than 7 assists. Parker's deep perimeter shooting has often been just as bad as Rondo, shooting in the 20's 5 times during his career.

Point is, not everyone can do what Rondo does despite playing with an equally talented cast.

 

[Telemachus]

It's not like Rondo is the ONLY player in the league with talent around him. How come he's of the few players that averages double-figure assists? How come these other players fortunate to play with a plethora of talent around them aren't flirting with 20/20/20 games too?

The kid is averaging nearly 12 ppg, 5 rpg, and 12 apg, all while shooting a respectable percentage except for 3pt and FT's. That's not all due to his teammates. If it were, his numbers would be far more common throughout the league.

For example, why doesn't Mario Chalmers put up similar numbers? He plays with 3 allstars, 2 of which are sure fire HOF's that are still in the prime of their careers. What about Tony Parker? He's played with Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili and a host of other talented players yet has never averaged more than 7 assists. Parker's deep perimeter shooting has often been just as bad as Rondo, shooting in the 20's 5 times during his career.

Point is, not everyone can do what Rondo does despite playing with an equally talented cast.

I'm not trying to take away from what Rondo has accomplished, just put it in perpective of how he accomplished it. He may have put up good stats on a bad team, but we will never know. As far as comparing him to Chalmers (who I have never been very high on), I don't think it is a fair comparison. KG, Pierce, and Ray Allen are ALL good at scoring off the pass, whch makes it a lot easier for a PG to get assists with them on the team. In Miami, Bosh is the only star player that falls into the same category. Both James and Wade are players that are better with the ball in their hands (which would take the ball out of the hands of the PG). If you put Rondo on Miami, he would still be a good defensive player but his assists and pts would both likely drop dramatically.

As for other players NOT putting up #s with the same opportunity as Rondo, I agree that many have failed in the past. You have to give him all the credit for taking advantage of the situation he was given.