Ranking Brad Miller amongst Centers

[dude12]

The Bibby rankings brought lots of talk and his rankings were all over the place. It's slow, so let's see where Miller fits. I'll tier it again. I'm using all these criteria: overall ability, age, upside/downside, offensive and defensive specific abilities(scoring, shotblocking, passing, etc): (Note:I tried my best to differentiate between the PF's such as Duncan, Bosh, Gasol that play both spots.)

1-5
Ming
Amare
Howard
Camby
Shaq

6-10
B Wallace
T Chandler
J O'Neal - some may consider him a PF....
Curry
Okur

11-15
Okafor
Illgauskus
Kaman
Biedrins
Dalembert

16-20
Bynum
Bogut
B Miller
Krstic
Dampier

21-
Mourning
Kw Brown
Perkins
Pachulia
Foster, Oberto, and others

Some of these guys may be considered PF's but I tried my best to differentiate. Amare is another guy who is hard to put somewhere as is KG. I may even have B Miller too high. His defense is abysmal but the passing skills are nice. Has a nice outside shot when he takes it but has zero low-post game.

 

[Bricklayer]

After last year this one is going to be difficult. Is Brad Miller the same slow footed terrible defensive perimeter softy who can at least counterpunch by passing and shooting jumpers? Or is he the nearly worthless mess we saw last year? Getting along in years too. But until you decide which one of the versions of Brad you are ranking , you are going to have results all over the place.

 

[Padrino]

After last year this one is going to be difficult. Is Brad Miller the same slow footed terrible defensive perimeter softy who can at least counterpunch by passing and shooting jumpers? Or is he the nearly worthless mess we saw last year? Getting along in years too. But until you decide which one of the versions of Brad you are ranking , you are going to have results all over the place.

brad miller's value is certainly difficult to weigh at this point. regardless of which "version" of miller you're talking about, he's clearly well overpaid at this stage of his career. i'm going to take an educated guess and say that last year was an anomaly, in terms of his production, due to an incompetent head coach who had little idea of how best to use brad's talents, which are specialized and specific. he's got no utility on the defensive end of the ball, that much is certain. but he can execute pick and rolls with a high degree of success, and it just so happens that the kings have one of the better pick and roll point guards in the league with mike bibby. it baffled me to no end how little musselman was able to extract from brad miller last season. for all his powerpoint presentations, binders full of player information, and x's and o's style, musselman seemed to have little clue how to use some of his players.

brad miller is still a quality center on the offensive side of the ball. he's not gonna be banging with the best post players in the league, but he's smart and can be a great tool in running a half court offensive set. i'd definitely no longer rank him among the best in the league. however, he's not entirely useless or washed up. i'd still like to see him traded, but that likelihood has steadily shrunk year by year along with his production. another one of his shortcomings has been his fleeting sense of self-confidence. the man has got to have the lowest self-esteem of any 7-footer i've ever heard of. at his best, in adelman's offense, he was a focal point in the high post set, and was very productive. he actually hit a high percentage of his jumpers, he scrapped, he dove for loose balls, he even managed to pull down about 10 boards a game. as the great kings team of the new millenium was slowly dismantled, though, miller's confidence seemed to go with it. in turn, his numbers declined, and we were left with the overpaid, pouty-faced individual we saw last season.

if reggie theus can inspire some confidence in brad miller, and if theus can capably run a half court set in the nba, then brad's numbers will probably go up some. though i doubt that will ever see him return to his top form.

 

[Entity]

Yeah without the jumper he doesn't get challenged therefore his passing leaves as well because eveybody is covered and his man is playing off. If you lose both with Brad you basically have a 7 foot pole out on the court taking up floor space, roster space, and cap space.

 

[Bricklayer]

Okay, with those disclaimers I mentioned (including this one: is he even the best center in Sacramento right now?), and while calling Jermaine a PF, but reluctantly leaving Okafor, Amare and Howard at C (the first two should start there, the last is in the Tim Duncan position):

1-5
Ming
Shaq
Howard
Amare
Camby

6-10
B Wallace
T Chandler
Curry
Okafor
Oden (just guessing -- he's very young)

11-15
Illgauskus
Okur
Biedrins
Dalembert
B Miller

16-20
Kaman
Bogut
Webber
Krstic
Dampier

21+
Pachulia
Darko
Bynum
Mourning
Mutumbo
Blount
Kw Brown
Perkins
etc.


And that's if Brad returns to that 12pt 8reb jumpshooting let the opposing scrub go for 20-10 form that we know and love. If his decline is real and permanent, he could slide rapidly down into that 21+ crew. That's where his numbers last year put him.

 

[SacKings7]

Okay, with those disclaimers I mentioned (including this one: is he even the best center in Sacramento right now?), and while calling Jermaine a PF, but reluctantly leaving Okafor, Amare and Howard at C (the first two should start there, the last is in the Tim Duncan position):

1-5
Ming
Shaq
Howard
Amare
Camby

6-10
B Wallace
T Chandler
Curry
Okafor
Oden (just guessing -- he's very young)

11-15
Illgauskus
Okur
Biedrins
Dalembert
B Miller

16-20
Kaman
Bogut
Webber
Krstic
Dampier

21+
Pachulia
Darko
Bynum
Mourning
Blount
Kw Brown
Perkins
etc.


And that's if Brad returns to that 12pt 8reb jumpshooting let the opposing scrub go for 20-10 form that we know and love. If his decline is real and permanent, he could slide rapidly down into that 21+ crew. That's where his numbers last year put him.

Looks pretty good. I'd put Curry down in the 11-15 range, and I'd move Kaman up in the 11-15 range. Who replaces them, I don't know, but I'd rather have Kaman than Brad

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I think kristic is better than brad, and pachulia had a pretty good year.
now i know this is a whole different thing, but offensively i'd rank brad in top 10 for sure and defensively pretty much worse than every player on this list.. so seeing brad ranking somewhere in the below average catagory ( because of rebounding aswell ) would seem about right.

 

[John Galt]

Okay, with those disclaimers I mentioned (including this one: is he even the best center in Sacramento right now?), and while calling Jermaine a PF, but reluctantly leaving Okafor, Amare and Howard at C (the first two should start there, the last is in the Tim Duncan position):

1-5
Ming
Shaq
Howard
Amare
Camby

6-10
B Wallace
T Chandler
Curry
Okafor
Oden (just guessing -- he's very young)

11-15
Illgauskus
Okur
Biedrins
Dalembert
B Miller

16-20
Kaman
Bogut
Webber
Krstic
Dampier

21+
Pachulia
Darko
Bynum
Mourning
Blount
Kw Brown
Perkins
etc.


And that's if Brad returns to that 12pt 8reb jumpshooting let the opposing scrub go for 20-10 form that we know and love. If his decline is real and permanent, he could slide rapidly down into that 21+ crew. That's where his numbers last year put him.

Wow. That is an incredibly charitable and optimistic view on Brad. If I believed Brad Miller would perform in that 11-15 band, I would start saving my pennies for playoff tickets. The Brad I've seen the last two years (well since the Spurs series anyway) is worse than useless in my opinion, but I'm glad to see that you Bricklayer give him more credit (albeit maybe "on a good day with some disclaimers") than I would dream. So maybe we can play .500 ball after all. If Brad can "show up" then I think so.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

At this point, I'd obviously put Krstic above Brad, as well as probably Pachulia and Kendrick Perkins. Hell, even Old Man Mourning still plays with more fire and brings more to his team than Brad. Bogut, too.

 

[Kevin's Good Feet]

The Brad I've seen the last two years (well since the Spurs series anyway) is worse than useless in my opinion,

You know, under that same timeline Bibby hasn't looked much better. I'm not trying to stick up for Miller, I'd just like people to have a little perspective on this.

 

[Bricklayer]

Wow. That is an incredibly charitable and optimistic view on Brad. If I believed Brad Miller would perform in that 11-15 band, I would start saving my pennies for playoff tickets. The Brad I've seen the last two years (well since the Spurs series anyway) is worse than useless in my opinion, but I'm glad to see that you Bricklayer give him more credit (albeit maybe "on a good day with some disclaimers") than I would dream. So maybe we can play .500 ball after all. If Brad can "show up" then I think so.

You know, being accused of MAYBE still being the 15th best center in a 30 team league isn't exactly print your playoff tickets stuff. Kaman had a lousy year, Bogut and Kristic are every bit as wussy as Brad, Webb is a PF on one leg, and Dampier is a roleplayer at this point. So a return to mediocrity for Brad could land him right at that most medicore of spots.

That said, if you asked me who I would trade him for/who I would rather have starting at center, you would have to go all the way to Zo, who may be retiring, before you hit somebody I wouldn't instantly trade straight up for Brad. Kaman and Dampier actually play CENTER, Webb has pride and leadership and gives a damn, Pachulia, Darko, Bogut, Kristic, Bynum etc. have youth and a future. Hell, if that's your standard throw in Hawes too. Every minute Brad Miller steals from that kid this year because management doesn't get it is a total and complete waste.

I'm not remotely high on Brad or interested in seeing him ever suit up for us again. Just realistic about the "competition" once you get into those mid-teens area. 12 and 8 gets you right into that mix.

 

[Kingzrool]

the last is in the Tim Duncan position):

I do not see Duncan on either list? Hello?

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

I do not see Duncan on either list? Hello?

Because Duncan normally starts at PF...even though he's listed as a 'PF-C'

 

[Bricklayer]

I do not see Duncan on either list? Hello?

I play along in Duncan's case even though he's always been a center. He got listed as a PF with the twin towers in San Antonio in his early years, and so that's what he is, by tradition if nothing else. Howard however has never had an Admiral next to him, so listing him at center is reasonable even though if I were the GM I'd be trying my best to keep him at PF where he's just overwhelming.

 

[supamari0]

Dikembe Mutombo.

I'm not sure he'll ever be able to duplicate last season but he really found the fountain of youth. 11 straight 10+ rebound games when he started. He averaged well over 10 a game when he got starters minutes. And he's still a great weak side blocker, even if he can't really keep up with his man anymore. (and yes the dude is probably 50 and he owns Brad Miller in defense)

 

[SacTownKid]

Get ready to revise those lists, Brad's going to surprise a lot of the naysayers this year.

 

[yaboy]

I want Brad Miller gone ASAP so i can see Justin Williams and Spencer Hawes start.

 

[BMiller52]

You know, being accused of MAYBE still being the 15th best center in a 30 team league isn't exactly print your playoff tickets stuff. Kaman had a lousy year, Bogut and Kristic are every bit as wussy as Brad, Webb is a PF on one leg, and Dampier is a roleplayer at this point. So a return to mediocrity for Brad could land him right at that most medicore of spots.

That said, if you asked me who I would trade him for/who I would rather have starting at center, you would have to go all the way to Zo, who may be retiring, before you hit somebody I wouldn't instantly trade straight up for Brad. Kaman and Dampier actually play CENTER, Webb has pride and leadership and gives a damn, Pachulia, Darko, Bogut, Kristic, Bynum etc. have youth and a future. Hell, if that's your standard throw in Hawes too. Every minute Brad Miller steals from that kid this year because management doesn't get it is a total and complete waste.

I'm not remotely high on Brad or interested in seeing him ever suit up for us again. Just realistic about the "competition" once you get into those mid-teens area. 12 and 8 gets you right into that mix.

And also makes him much more tradable

 

[tyrant]

brad miller is the worst defensive center in the league. he's in the top 20 of centers(and i would rank him 20). thats only because the really great big men are all power forwards. a center has to be able to do more than shoot jump shots. and guess what, he's not the only good passing big man. its bout time we got off bibby and take a look at the overpaid miller. it makes me puke to watch him snail up and down the court. i would start spencer over him.

 

[Kingster]

The 16-20 range seems right for Miller. Last year, he played in the bottom tier, so I'm giving him a break.

There is something wrong with Miller's mental outlook that I just can't place. Maybe he just plays for the $ and doesn't like to really compete? I don't know. Last year he made some stupid comment that he need the coach to tell him whether he should pass or shoot. I don't care if Muss was the worst coach in the NBA, that's the stupidest comment I've ever heard. I was expecting Miller was going to follow up and ask how many dribbles he should take to get to drive to the basket. He's a one-dimensional outside shooting center, and maybe that makes him inherently insecure. But he doesn't have the confidence. He thinks way too much on the court instead of just playing with passion. The one great game I remember him having in the last 3 years was when he got mad, stopped thinking, and started hoisting and making 3-pointers. Theus is going to have to start pushing Miller's anger buttons so that he plays like he really belongs in the NBA, not just going along for the million dollar ride.

 

[bajaden]

At this point, I'd obviously put Krstic above Brad, as well as probably Pachulia and Kendrick Perkins. Hell, even Old Man Mourning still plays with more fire and brings more to his team than Brad. Bogut, too.

I'm sorry, but some of you people are out of your minds. What the hell has Perkins ever done. 4pts and 3 rebounds a game. The guy was a joke last year. Talk about an underacheiver. If Miller returns to form he's still a very good center that makes other people around him better. Lets at least wait and see which Miller shows up. He had a bad foot the entire season. I'm amazed how many people were willing to give Webber a free pass because of his injury but want to burn Miller at the stake.

To put this in prospective, I'm not a big Miller fan. There are other players I'd rather have, and would love to see him and his big salary moved for just about anything of equal value. But lets not lose sight of reality

 

[CruzDude]

Heck, if Ron Ron will rebound, which he CAN if he sets his mind to it (or Coach sets his mind to it!), and if we get Williams or Watkins at PF, both of which are rebounding monsters (for Kings at least), then Brad isn't all that bad to feed Bibbs and KMart or Cisco or Douby all of whom move well without the ball.

Again if someone can start to prevent the layup drills others run against the Kings, then Brads value goes up for his other abilities.

 

[kyo2002]

Second tier if he comes back, third and quickly going down if he's the same as last year.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

Get ready to revise those lists, Brad's going to surprise a lot of the naysayers this year.

...and to what do you owe your wager on Mr. Miller's return to form this year?? His being overweight and out of shape? His foot still hurting? Um...well...I think ALL of these things, not to mention all the planets, moon, sun and stars being in perfect alignment, have to be righted in order for Brad to come back to resemble even HALF of what he used to be when we first got him. He's older and probably slower...which cant bode well for any sort of revival. And the fact that Coach Theus already pretty much called him a fat azz, that doesnt sit very well for B-52. I guess we'll just have to wait and see which Brad shows up to training camp, now wont we??