Props to Peja

[Zyphen]

Zyphen, you could be a Navy S.E.A.L in elite condition used to running at full speed while under fire with a hundred pounds of gear on, and you'd still be tired after carrying a basketball team in an elimination game in the NBA playoffs. No, it wouldn't be more stressful or strenuous, but they are still humans. Unless you want them 'roiding it up, fatigue is inevitable. Fatigue = decreased performance, PARTICULARLY in the jump shot. Welcome back to reality, good sir.

Being tired and using being tired as an excuse are two different things. If I were trying to argue that they weren't tired at all, you may have a point.

Everyone's tired in the 4th. Hundreds of playoff games are decided by how players deal with fatigue. They're all in the same boat. That's why it isn't an excuse.

 

[VF21]

OFFICIAL WARNING:

We do not and WILL not tolerate racial stereotyping of any sort on this board. PERIOD. If you want to make those kinds of statements, please find another board to post on because you will not be welcome here.

Raci has had his/her posting privileges suspended for three days. I have removed the post in question. If there is a repeat of this type of comment, he/she or anyone else doing the same thing will be permanently banned from this site.

VF21
MODERATOR

 

[El Duque]

Zyphen,

Well, that kind of was my point. It is certainly a valid excuse based solely upon the physiological merits of fatigue. Does that mean that is is totally acceptable? No. But it isn't like we can pull a "Hitler during Operation Barbarossa" and pretend that all divisions are always at full strength. Tell me, which team got more complete contributions from all of its players and in particular, its bench? The point being that Seattle's main men, though they had similar numbers to Peja and Mike, were not as tired as Peja and Bibby because they hadn't been "doing it all". Also, Ray Allen plays next to no defense, and does not drive to the basket often. Peja drove to the basket, played defense, and occasionally mixed it up for rebounds. He plays against more physical defenders, with Evans and James often beating him up whenever he ventured in beyond the three-point line.

 

[andjel]

This year, the focus is - rightly or wrongly, for better or worse - about Peja. Some people are going to praise him, others are going to criticize him. A lot of us are going to be somewhere in the middle - and that's just the way it's going to be for him and the fans.

Who created the controversy? IMHO Peja did - knowingly or not - when he went to the media with his announcement that he wanted to be traded.

Kings fans have very long memories and they aren't going to forget that slap on the face and it WAS a slap on the face, whether he realized or meant it to be.

VF21,

One of the reasons I stopped writing on this board, though I am reading it regularly, is that a lot of people took very personaly Pedja's summer statement (and Divac's departure) which alienated a lot of usually very objective people, you included.
While reaction is understandable, I just want to inform you that despite efforts, I do not understand how can you call yourself somewhere in the middle.

 

[VF21]

VF21,

One of the reasons I stopped writing on this board, though I am reading it regularly, is that a lot of people took very personaly Pedja's summer statement (and Divac's departure) which alienated a lot of usually very objective people, you included.
While reaction is understandable, I just want to inform you that despite efforts, I do not understand how can you call yourself somewhere in the middle.

Have you read every post I've made about Peja? If you have and still cannot sense that I'm really torn, then I apologize ... but not for trying to be honest about what I'm feeling. Bottom line is I am posting the truth as I perceive it, which is all I can do.

 

[Zyphen]

Zyphen,

Well, that kind of was my point. It is certainly a valid excuse based solely upon the physiological merits of fatigue. Does that mean that is is totally acceptable? No. But it isn't like we can pull a "Hitler during Operation Barbarossa" and pretend that all divisions are always at full strength. Tell me, which team got more complete contributions from all of its players and in particular, its bench? The point being that Seattle's main men, though they had similar numbers to Peja and Mike, were not as tired as Peja and Bibby because they hadn't been "doing it all". Also, Ray Allen plays next to no defense, and does not drive to the basket often. Peja drove to the basket, played defense, and occasionally mixed it up for rebounds. He plays against more physical defenders, with Evans and James often beating him up whenever he ventured in beyond the three-point line.

I don't understand how Mike and Peja's teammates giving a relatively lesser amount of contribution means that Mike and Peja did more than Ray and Lewis. To me, that seems to be the reason why we lost.

I acknowledge that it is definitely probable that Mike and Peja had to work harder this game than their counterparts but was it significantly harder? That's my point of contention. Also, I have seen Bibby work MUCH harder in games and he still comes out clutch. Bibby just didn't have enough at the end this game (but he still had something, no doubt), but that's ok. I expect him to bounce back. I think it's more of a confidence/chemistry problem with his new teammates and not having Webb in his corner anymore.

I think this'll be my last post on the subject. Think there's a rule that whenever racism, WWII, or sexual orientation is mentioned, a discussion just isn't worth continuing.

I just want to apologize to Kennadog if it seemed like I was calling him out. I get heated about statistics sometimes. Probably cause of my environment. Didn't mean to blow up at you.

 

[kennadog]

Zyphen: Apology accepted. No problem here. My thought process was closer to El Duque than you, but by no means does that invalidate your opinion. I too think Bibby and Peja had to carry a much heavier load in that game than either Allen or Lewis, meaning the exertion of more energy physically and mentally. I guess that sounds like an excuse to a lot of people. What I saw was a pretty remarkable game by two players who appeared to me to be giving all the effort they could. Was it good enough...nope.

Sometimes I'm not sure where reality ends and excuse begins. In a marathon if one runner "hits the wall" and another doesn't and wins, is that an excuse or just reality that day? The same two runners could compete on another day with a totally different outcome.

 

[andjel]

Have you read every post I've made about Peja? If you have and still cannot sense that I'm really torn, then I apologize ... but not for trying to be honest about what I'm feeling. Bottom line is I am posting the truth as I perceive it, which is all I can do.

Your pain and hurt are obvious. A lot of unhappy "wibes" are the reason I stayed away.
Just my "pain in the butt-ness" forced me to type observation that you are not unbiased (somewhere in the middle as you put it).

Pedja might be gone, or he might stay. He is not the first one to say something stupid, and it was long time ago. But ... he is still KING. I remember the time when a lot of words and deeds were forgiven just for that plain fact.

It is time to let it go, IMHO.

 

[bozzwell]

Being tired and using being tired as an excuse are two different things. If I were trying to argue that they weren't tired at all, you may have a point.

Everyone's tired in the 4th. Hundreds of playoff games are decided by how players deal with fatigue. They're all in the same boat. That's why it isn't an excuse.

That's true in general, but one of the things that stood out in the series was that McMillan made it a major part of his series strategy to distrupt and pressurize Bibby and Pedja overall and Brad as well in the games where he got bigger minutes. I am not saying that McMillan's approach was to tire them more then his players were tired - no that would be stupid. But he had luxury of Ridnour and Daniels who are both as quick or quicker then Bibby who were splitting time on Bibbster (plus the traps and pressing Bibster away from his "spots"). The talking heads on TNT would have us beleive that Lewis had down series, not so - he was marvelously in control, passing up on tough shots to drive to the basket or kicking the ball back. Made Pedja's simple defence (stay between the guy and the basket) look better then it really was at the expense of making more work for Pedja.

RA, God bless him, tried to make adjustments by taking the ball out of Bibby's hands early (in the games 2-4 if I remember correctly) and by trying to alter his usually rigid substitution pattern (most notably in the 2nd of game 5, when he had ice hockey "team substituiton") but both adjustments failed miserably. McMillan used maybe one or two more players but he made them count much more by focusing so much on Bibby first, then Pedja and finally Brad.

I like the fact that RA left the startes in the 4th of the 5th game. Let them go out in style, on Tuesday they deserved it and we were not going to get very far anyway.

 

[VF21]

Your pain and hurt are obvious. A lot of unhappy "wibes" are the reason I stayed away.
Just my "pain in the butt-ness" forced me to type observation that you are not unbiased (somewhere in the middle as you put it).

Pedja might be gone, or he might stay. He is not the first one to say something stupid, and it was long time ago. But ... he is still KING. I remember the time when a lot of words and deeds were forgiven just for that plain fact.

It is time to let it go, IMHO.

...sigh...

Okay, I'm not unbiased (which I never claimed, BTW.) It's all about opinions and we're each entitled to our own.

Since I have no idea what you expect me to say or do, I'll apologize again if I've offended you. Other than that, I'm pretty much at a loss to know what else you would like.

 

[VF21]

I like the fact that RA left the startes in the 4th of the 5th game. Let them go out in style, on Tuesday they deserved it and we were not going to get very far anyway.

That, in a nushell, expresses my overall opinion, too.

 

[kennadog]

^^^Ditto

 

[AleksandarN]

...sigh...

Okay, I'm not unbiased (which I never claimed, BTW.) It's all about opinions and we're each entitled to our own.

Since I have no idea what you expect me to say or do, I'll apologize again if I've offended you. Other than that, I'm pretty much at a loss to know what else you would like.

I know what you can do for me CLICK HERE

j/k


p.s. I really need to stop the Napoleon Dynamite sound bites it getting out of control.

 

[ReinadelosReys]

Pedja might be gone, or he might stay. He is not the first one to say something stupid, and it was long time ago. But ... he is still KING. I remember the time when a lot of words and deeds were forgiven just for that plain fact.

It is time to let it go, IMHO.

Sorry, but no one is above the law of Kingsfans. It has been discussed before that Peja was for a long time seen as this "golden child." He played and that was that, and even it he did say something it wasn't like we could make out what he was saying

Somewhere along the course(well you could probably all guess) that all changed-Peja changed. If he is going to have an opinion about this team, if he wants to be a main cog in the team, one its bigger, more important pieces then he-as well as all of his faithful fans-have to accept and acknowledge the possibility of critiques both in favor and against him that come along with the title of being a teams' "main guy."

Are we sitting here analyzing anything Kevin Martin says? No, because-no offense to Kevin or Kevin fans-he is inconsequential to this Kings team.

 

[VF21]

...Are we sitting here analyzing anything Kevin Martin says? No, because-no offense to Kevin or Kevin fans-he is inconsequential to this Kings team.

And, after the whole seat-belt fiasco, Kevin doesn't talk much...especially when the press is around.



...

Sorry. I couldn't help myself.

You made some valid points, Reina, and I had this overwhelming urge to totally ignore them and go for the cheap laugh. It's been that kind of year...

GO KINGS!!!!!

 

[El Duque]

Zyphen,

If you think that I was referencing WWII as a comparison in any way to the game of basketball, then you missed the point entirely, or are being deliberately obtuse. Either way, I can respect that we will just have to agree to disagree, but that doesn't invalidate the opinions or observations that others besides yourself have made.

 

[Gargamel]

Here is Pedja's reply to all of the Pedja bashers on the forum

That movie has officially attained cult classic status.

 

[mr. moustache]

Man oh man. I just wanted to say thanks to Peja for stringing together 3 very good offensive games in the playoffs. Was he perfect? No. Was I expecting 12pts 2rbs? Yes. He played well. That's it. Feel free to start a thread about how peja doesn't play in the 4th quarter, that's another subject.

 

[BigWaxer]

Lets not sugar coat this, he put up most of his numbers in the first half. We need our "star" to be there in the end not the first qtr.

With that said look up my post history I have long supported Peja.

 

[mr. moustache]

Lets not sugar coat this, he put up most of his numbers in the first half. We need our "star" to be there in the end not the first qtr.

With that said look up my post history I have long supported Peja.

You obviously didn't get my point. This thread is called props to peja. Not critical analysis of peja's 2005 playoff performance. Like I said, feel free to start a new thread. I'll even name it for you.

Let's not suger coat this, Peja can't finish games. Post all you like in there.

 

[VF21]

mr. moustache - Sometimes threads take on lives of their own. If someone posts something you don't agree with it, the best way to handle it is simply to ignore it. If you had contacted me when it started, I would have been most happy to split the thread for you. Now, after 80 posts, it's a bit too late.

 

[Bartking]

Lets not sugar coat this, he put up most of his numbers in the first half. We need our "star" to be there in the end not the first qtr.

With that said look up my post history I have long supported Peja.

He did put up 7 pts on 7 shots in the 4th quarter. That' s not bad. Plus he got the no-call on the missed layup.

 

[Bricklayer]

He did put up 7 pts on 7 shots in the 4th quarter. That' s not bad. Plus he got the no-call on the missed layup.

7 points on 9 shots -- 4 of those points came on free throws and I've mentioend before, those aren't free. In any case his effort in the 4th was commendable and entirely out of character -- he played really hard. His production...well 2 of 7 or 8 or whatever is hardly the stuff you need out of your main gun. Just may be as simple as Peja shouldn't be your main gun. In fact I think it is that simple.

 

[thesanityannex]

i was pleasantly surprised with his playoff performance. he really seemed to be trying on defense and it showed. i was expecting rashard to kill us and he didnt. MAD PROPS to peja this series.

 

[Bartking]

7 points on 9 shots -- 4 of those points came on free throws and I've mentioend before, those aren't free. In any case his effort in the 4th was commendable and entirely out of character -- he played really hard. His production...well 2 of 7 or 8 or whatever is hardly the stuff you need out of your main gun. Just may be as simple as Peja shouldn't be your main gun. In fact I think it is that simple.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying he had an amazing 4th quarter, just pointing out that he did score 7, Bibby scored 9 and I think the rest of the team scored 9.